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EDIT
If you saw my original response, I had a massive reading comprehension failure, sorry. If you did not see it then ignore this and continue assuming I am perfect. /EDIT
This is the main thought. It seemed that the MC was supposed to be a moral actor. And, to me, that is almost impossible if you're attempting to seduce them when you know they're being subjected to drugs. It just seems to completely nullify consent if people feel their brain is being "hijacked."
The rest of the discussion is just getting into the weeds of the specific instances, but that is at the core of the moral disagreement. It's the drugs and the deception about drugs. Everything else is pretty understandable human and immaturity flaws really. I mean who hasn't gotten a little handsy ahead of the whistle, right?
Yeah, I did not blame him for this because it was pretty obvious it was the result of his being drugged. Again, the drugs really hijack the story so much it kinda pushes the characters to the background as you can hardly separate real feelings and behavior from drug-addled behavior.Now, I kinda agree that Sterling has been getting worse as of late, it's been a while since I played chapter 12 properly (like a year and a half
But his behavior only got uncomfortable for me AFTER the scene of the drug that only affects males, and again, I can excuse it because of that but it is still uncomfortable.
That's why it's such a curious plot device for a relationship narrative to me.
I mean more in regards to a moral judgment from the author. Like your first point he's supposed to be a 'moral MC' in comparison at least, but, to me, I'm really stuck behind it being immoral to seduce people you know are being drugged... even if you didn't drug them.
Agreed. Sterling is the only non-violent member of the family apparently.
Brenna is a pitbull in protecting the family BUT seeing how each member actually force themselves on her more than twice and Brenna not only never retaliates but barely even gets mad at them makes Brenna definitely the "cool older sister" she tries to be. Ophelia picking her as the sole target for spanking when she can barely scold Catherine the rapist and Sterling the serial masturbator also shows she has more burden of responsibility.It's not so much that she doesn't trust the family, but she does expect them to be idiots and get themselves into trouble, which consistently shows to be a good expectation. It probably increases her paranoia to outside threats, especially considering how often her paranoia about those threats prove accurate (Kevin, Eileen, Hunter, Sterling lying and failing to control himself).
"It's not paranoia if it's always right..."
So, not too surprising she doesn't trust anyone, including a woman that stalks her, plots to record her engaging in incest, and expose it to her just to see the look on her face for the ultimate kick. For me, she gets a pass for thinking that's a threat...
As extreme as the story can be, in that one case, if someone did something like that to me, I'd probably actually respond the same way.
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Now just hold your horses a minute...
I'm not going to speak for others here, but I do not believe for one minute that the non-ntr/vanilla "faces" comprise of primarily crying about a misbelief of a greater focus on ntr. I'd say it's more accurate to label the ones you mean as the vocal minority.
Ghostboy031
Active Member
- Jan 2, 2019
- 594
- 956
Damn updates from this site are almost non-existent now. I'm following dozens of games and used to get 1 game update from different devs at least once a month but nowadays its either once a year or the game gets abandoned. I think we've already reached the peak, for both players and the devs. Or I'm just getting too old for this
pinkie96
Active Member
- May 12, 2017
- 591
- 3,152
Bad ends have been in the game since chapter 1. There was never going to be an NTR route. A lot of people on here were throwing tantrum about NTR being included at all. WWG did a poll on patreon and most people voted to keep the bad ends.
000000
Active Member
- Oct 9, 2017
- 912
- 937
it should be name as "BAD ENDING" choices instead of naming it as NTR
its already a misconception to the NTR genre 
FoolishFool0
Member
- Nov 19, 2017
- 324
- 448
NTR and Harem as twin genres are both weirdly interconnected but also extremely antithetical.
A game with both tags therefore falls into three categories ultimately:
A) Games like this one, where the game is a full harem but it has NTR bad endings, in which case the bad endings enhance the harem aspects of the game since you have to actually work to achieve it.
B) Netori Games, which are about a MC stealing someone else's woman.
C) NTR games who have a single Harem ending, usually featuring someone else mind you, or featuring an Harem Protagonist getting cucked (Especially if it's a fanfiction game).
Personally, I think as long as the game is blatantly clear about what it is about, people complaining about it is kinda pointless unless you have actual legit criticism about it rather than based on subjective porn taste.
A game with both tags therefore falls into three categories ultimately:
A) Games like this one, where the game is a full harem but it has NTR bad endings, in which case the bad endings enhance the harem aspects of the game since you have to actually work to achieve it.
B) Netori Games, which are about a MC stealing someone else's woman.
C) NTR games who have a single Harem ending, usually featuring someone else mind you, or featuring an Harem Protagonist getting cucked (Especially if it's a fanfiction game).
Personally, I think as long as the game is blatantly clear about what it is about, people complaining about it is kinda pointless unless you have actual legit criticism about it rather than based on subjective porn taste.
000000
Active Member
- Oct 9, 2017
- 912
- 937
To me its about the story linear in which is about the tag NTR is not in the story it self its true there is HUNTER but his just a clown figure to me whenever I read his story line but its really just a matter of bad endings whenever you choose HUNTER's path but it only leads to BAD END instead of continuation in the story progress in which I can say it's an NTR game but yeah ntr tag in this website are classified as 2 those have in the story progression or its in the BAD ENDING choices
Gwimmly
Member
- Sep 19, 2021
- 348
- 538
Yeah but it's different in this case because PV is a game inspired by true eventsYou all take this porn-y pornVN's characters and their emotional state and reasoning way too seriously
Brenna is out there somewhere i just know it
johnpouljones
Well-Known Member
- Oct 17, 2023
- 1,163
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Everything is possible. There are people who say that small green people live somewhere. And two British ladies took a picture of the elves.Yeah but it's different in this case because PV is a game inspired by true events
pinkie96
Active Member
- May 12, 2017
- 591
- 3,152
I predicted a late November release last year. Now we're closer to this year's November than last's
Yeah it's all the fault of pinkie96, he shouldn't have made predictions...I'm starting to see a pattern here...
Stop making predictions, you're jinxing it!
EDIT
If you saw my original response, I had a massive reading comprehension failure, sorry. If you did not see it then ignore this and continue assuming I am perfect. /EDIT
This is the main thought. It seemed that the MC was supposed to be a moral actor. And, to me, that is almost impossible if you're attempting to seduce them when you know they're being subjected to drugs. It just seems to completely nullify consent if people feel their brain is being "hijacked."
The rest of the discussion is just getting into the weeds of the specific instances, but that is at the core of the moral disagreement. It's the drugs and the deception about drugs. Everything else is pretty understandable human and immaturity flaws really. I mean who hasn't gotten a little handsy ahead of the whistle, right?
Yeah, I did not blame him for this because it was pretty obvious it was the result of his being drugged. Again, the drugs really hijack the story so much it kinda pushes the characters to the background as you can hardly separate real feelings and behavior from drug-addled behavior.
That's why it's such a curious plot device for a relationship narrative to me.
I mean more in regards to a moral judgment from the author. Like your first point he's supposed to be a 'moral MC' in comparison at least, but, to me, I'm really stuck behind it being immoral to seduce people you know are being drugged... even if you didn't drug them.
Agreed. Sterling is the only non-violent member of the family apparently.
It's not so much that she doesn't trust the family, but she does expect them to be idiots and get themselves into trouble, which consistently shows to be a good expectation. It probably increases her paranoia to outside threats, especially considering how often her paranoia about those threats prove accurate (Kevin, Eileen, Hunter, Sterling lying and failing to control himself).
"It's not paranoia if it's always right..."
So, not too surprising she doesn't trust anyone, including a woman that stalks her, plots to record her engaging in incest, and expose it to her just to see the look on her face for the ultimate kick. For me, she gets a pass for thinking that's a threat...
As extreme as the story can be, in that one case, if someone did something like that to me, I'd probably actually respond the same way.
Well, on that moral conondrum we'll never reach an agreement but do answer me these 2 questions:
When two black out drunks fuck each other, Who raped who?
If when you are drunk, you realize you're drunk, can you suddenly start walking straight and stop slurring your words?
Back on the 'we need to make Drew look like a victim' arc everyone put a lot of weight into Sterling knowing about the drugs and nobody answered that second question, my point being, ok Sterling knows of the drugs, does that mean he is not affected by them? Who knows by this point him not telling anyone could have been because of the drugs too and not a moral failing.
AND thanks to you bad mouthing Sterling suddenly everyone is on his side again (thanks guys I'm not the only contrarian now), and now thanks to more arguments shown, I'm not even sure if he actually understands the extent of the problem, dumbass probably believes he ISN'T drugged because he is aware of Hunter and tries to remove the ones he's aware of, wich would make him think all the stupid horny choices he's made have actually been HIS idea, and in turn make it so that his choices are even worse. That scene on the pent house with Brenna drawing on his chest were probably the 2 only hours of lucidity that fucker has enjoyed in months.
And, why use drugs? Again, the dev actually answered that one already, because this was going to be about a NORMAL family (albeit a bit quirky) that ended up fucking each other and he found no believable way for a normal family to suddenly start fucking each other without a big nice push, so hey, even if it's iffy it was that little 'for the story sake' actual suspencion of disbelief. He could use quarantine if he ever wants to try this formula again though... I've heard that the incest rates went through the roof because of the 2020 lockdowns.
For one final point though, you said something very very wrong, you said that Brenna suspects Hunter... she doesn't, nobody does, THAT'S THE PROBLEM, that applies tenfold when you say that the threat is sexual in nature then not even actual paranoia would believe you. There was one person Sterling tried to warn Tiff, and she laughed to his face when Sterling called Hunter a 'threat', then she fell to the floor laughing when Sterling explained that she would end up fucking him if he got the chance, and can you blame her? you're basically telling them that they'll end up finding what could be descrived as a walking malignant tumor alluring and irresistible, nobody believes you, everyone thinks you're deranged, THEN comes the drugs.
And you have already finished chapter 12 by now, you've seen that actually warning them, actually using evidence, appealing to their relationship ment squat... probably because they STILL wouldn't believe they would actually end up having sex with Hunter, that was Sterling's fear, that he would not be believed and that happened so 'it's not paranoia if it's right' huh.
You every time you make a prediction;
(I keep telling you to get your damn cursed technique under control, Takaba)
Which moral conundrum and what is your opinion? The entire conversation for me started because people were saying that Sterling was supposed to be a moral actor and that the girls were wrong for the way they responded to him (at least Brenna and Ophelia). Being excused from moral responsibility (because of drugs) does not make the actions moral. And if it excuses immoral behavior entirely then the girls wouldn't be accountable for how they treat Sterling because they're not treating 'Sterling' but rather the monster the drugs turn Sterling into.
The one who kept going when the other person said 'no'. Not being accountable for raping someone does not make the rape any less a rape. Not being able to control yourself does not make raping or murdering 'good things to do', it just potentially makes persons unaccountable.
True, that has been a point I've been making about the drugs hijacking the characters to the point the story is not about them but its about the drugs. You can't even say he actually loves his family either because... drugs. You can't say he actually loves Brenna romantically, because drugs and he in Ch 12 denies it by saying he was only doing it for OF because of money.... You can't say he actually doesn't like Hunter, because drugs. You can't say he even really wants to stop Hunter, because drugs. So you can't pick and choose the 'blackout' moments to say "this is the real Sterling and he's a moral actor and is in love with his family" the same way you can't say "this is the real Sterling who rapes his family, lies to them to manipulate them into having sex with him, and seduces them while being pretty certain someone is drugging them to turn them into sex slaves." All because drugs.
That's why it's a strange plot device for a relationship drama with a supposedly 'moral character'. If the drugs are to display an immoral character that is just supposed to be less slimy for people to play as but accomplish the rape fantasy, then drugs are the way to do it.
People were on his side to start the conversation. I just didn't see how they were saying his actions were moral and the girls were not. The argument your making doesn't make the actions moral, but yes it potentially makes him unaccountable... because drugs.
Exactly. It appeases the conscience that your MC is going to do some messed up stuff because he's not in control of himself. It doesn't make the things the MC is doing morally good, or make the girls wrong for thinking the things he is doing are bad.
I honestly don't understand the huge kink about incest. It gets brainwashed into you mostly because it's scientifically bad. But it's not in and of itself some flagrantly immoral thing. I don't have something internally that tells me someone is my blood relative when it's also telling me that person is hot. It's just a rule like finding out someone is married. It's not like not being straight or not being gay which your body automatically tells you with feelings.
This is what I was referring to in chapter 7:
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There's no indication she wouldn't have said, "let's go check his tooth" like she did in ch 12. She even wanted to get the blood tested, and Sterling told her, again, she was basically being crazy.
That's what makes it easier to believe the person would drug you. No one had any trouble believing a hideous person would use drugs to have sex with beautiful women, especially since no one in the family has any real barrier to incest.
Again, that's not what happened.
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So, Brenna was suspicious of Hunter's drinks. Even if she didn't expect he was trying to seduce her, she was uncomfortable. Later that chapter she gets drugged. She has to be lied to three times, by Sterling, before she stops believing it happened or at least stops talking about it. And she ultimately believes Sterling only because of her memory of that event and Lucia's testimony. There is nothing in the actual story to indicate that she wouldn't have believed him because those are the only things that make her believe him. If it worked when he looked MUCH worse, how would it not work when she was staring his innocence literally in the face and confident that SOMEONE tried to have sex with her?
Of course, you guys are entitled to think that's not sufficient evidence. I can't tell you objectively you're wrong. A jury has 12 members for a reason, differing burdens of proof. I'm just saying I see no evidence in the story that she wouldn't believe him based on those things because the only evidence in the story is that she believes him based on those things. And what you are concluding (that the girls wouldn't believe him based on Lucia's testimony and the tooth incident) doesn't align with what actually happens. So, I'd just need more evidence to reach your same conclusion because the scenes you're using (ch 12) are what lead me to my conclusion or at least confirm it.
Now, I honestly imagine the author would be like "WTF? It's not that serious, lol. It's just a porn game and Sterling's supposed to be an idiot..." That would make the most sense to why he didn't try to make this ironclad detective drama, it's just a NTR story with the odd combination of a guy falling in love with his family. It's not supposed to be 'morally analyzed'.
He's a parody of Sterling Archer I think, who was equally immoral and stupid for the sake of humor. Not actually being a villain, just a mentally misadjusted idiot who ends up constantly doing messed up stuff. As a result of his stupidity and lack of proper mental development, a theme of the show, Archer also genuinely never believed he was doing anything wrong no matter how flagrantly messed up the things he was doing were. It was the main driver of the show's humor. The only conflict I have is if people are saying that somehow Sterling's actual actions were an example of 'moral character' and the actions were justified. That's pretty impossible to me and these essays are explaining why. But again, we can all agree to disagree. I'm really just here for the incredible art and orgasms not to learn how to be paragon of morality and romance.
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Pablim1
Member
- Sep 23, 2017
- 119
- 305
The lack of content from this dev is making his fanbase going nuts
I just want a full Penny scene. Is that too much to ask?!
I always do this. I always pick the random side that doesn't actually show up for years, smh. (Obviously her stint in ch 7 doesn't count)