4.10 star(s) 45 Votes

Akamari

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There are many people who cannot view a project as an observer and consciously or subconsciously insert themselves as the MC (Not saying you are necessarily like this). I can already tell that the dev is trying to please this crowd, which is fairly large to be fair. Constant obfuscation of the MC's face is an example. The story however, is definitely not being told in a first person perspective. Focusing a lot on the first person narrative might be good for immersion, but it also puts a lot of constraint on how a writer can present the story.
If the dev doesn't want people to play the MC, there shouldn't be a MC in the first place.

If the story was clearly told from a narrator point of view that would be fine. I can enjoy stories that have multiple points of view. However, that considerably raises the demands on the quality of writing. Personally, I prefer the storytelling to center around the MC, because I like to play the VN's and not just read them. I don't mind if the story occasionaly jumps away from the MC, as long as there is a good narrative purpose for it, but this is just too much.

What we have here is a hybrid that tries to combine both approaches, which I find ultimately unsatisfying.
 

AL.d

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
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Games like BaDIK and rockstar in your sig also has plenty of scenes away from the MC. There are many people who cannot view a project as an observer and consciously or subconsciously insert themselves as the MC (Not saying you are necessarily like this). I can already tell that the dev is trying to please this crowd, which is fairly large to be fair. Constant obfuscation of the MC's face is an example. The story however, is definitely not being told in a first person perspective. Focusing a lot on the first person narrative might be good for immersion, but it also puts a lot of constraint on how a writer can present the story.

As you said, the plotlines of whats happening at the honeymoon and at home will converge at some point. I feel like the whole girls night out thing was great. It gives you some predictable character growth on Alex. What I found even better was the insight into Hannah's character. At first, I thought she was the typical slutty friend, but we see that her character has quite some depth. The mother probably had a divorce with the dad and he remarried some bitch. Dad got custody of Hannah and the other kids stayed with mom. Or maybe Hannah is a bastard child of dad's infidelity. That might make more sense on why the mother would hate her. Hannah grew up in some fucked up environment with the bitch step mom and got all sorts of trauma. You see so much pain inside her but its all shown indirectly. We never see or hear what exactly is going on with her at home, but so much can be learned from unrelated dialogue and her mannerisms.
There is nothing wrong with a "spectator" scene here and there. Especially when it gives insight to an NPC's thoughts after an interaction with the MC or revealing a plot element (foreshadowing) that the MC will face later. But when half of an update is spent away from your player character (more than once) there is a problem. It becomes a pseudo dual-protag game.

And there is always some self-insert when playing a story driven RPG/adventure game with a player character. It's impossbile not to by nature of the medium. Even when the character is a different gender. Self insert doesn't mean you want to be the character. It means the character is the extension of your will within the game as every choice/action is essentially yours.
 

ThatGuyWithaAfro

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Aug 28, 2018
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There is nothing wrong with a "spectator" scene here and there. Especially when it gives insight to an NPC's thoughts after an interaction with the MC or revealing a plot element (foreshadowing) that the MC will face later. But when half of an update is spent away from your player character (more than once) there is a problem. It becomes a pseudo dual-protag game.

And there is always some self-insert when playing a story driven RPG/adventure game with a player character. It's impossbile not to by nature of the medium. Even when the character is a different gender. Self insert doesn't mean you want to be the character. It means the character is the extension of your will within the game as every choice/action is essentially yours.
Don't see how people can't understand this and just say.. 'The MC isn't you..' But I am sitting here making all the choices and shaping the story in my favor.

It's not a linear story.. These games are choice based VN..

I think this game is like Depraved Awakening except we spend much more time away from MC with this game.
 
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desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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If the dev doesn't want people to play the MC, there shouldn't be a MC in the first place.

If the story was clearly told from a narrator point of view that would be fine. I can enjoy stories that have multiple points of view. However, that considerably raises the demands on the quality of writing. Personally, I prefer the storytelling to center around the MC, because I like to play the VN's and not just read them. I don't mind if the story occasionaly jumps away from the MC, as long as there is a good narrative purpose for it, but this is just too much.

What we have here is a hybrid that tries to combine both approaches, which I find ultimately unsatisfying.
That's a weird way to put it. MC is just the point in which the main plot revolve around. Think about any literature or media. There are sometimes entire arcs where MC doesn't even show up. Do you not like it when Gon doesn't show up for entire Arcs of HxH? Or when Han is off doing his thing while luke is training with Yoda? Or when we see the stuff thats happening in Falconia in Berserk? Or when we shift to Gabby and Falco and have no idea whats going on back in Paradise Island in Attack on Titan? Would you say these are bad writers?

There is nothing wrong with a "spectator" scene here and there. Especially when it gives insight to an NPC's thoughts after an interaction with the MC or revealing a plot element (foreshadowing) that the MC will face later. But when half of an update is spent away from your player character (more than once) there is a problem. It becomes a pseudo dual-protag game.

And there is always some self-insert when playing a story driven RPG/adventure game with a player character. It's impossbile not to by nature of the medium. Even when the character is a different gender. Self insert doesn't mean you want to be the character. It means the character is the extension of your will within the game as every choice/action is essentially yours.
Maybe its impossible for you, but not for everyone. This isn't a story driven cRPG/adventure in the first place. Its a VN. Even if it was, self inserting is a terrible way to play any role playing game. You are supposed to become the character, not force the character to become you.

Don't see how people can't understand this and just say.. 'The MC isn't you..' But I am sitting here making all the choices and shaping the story in my favor.

It's not a linear story.. These games are choice based VN..

I think this game is like Depraved Awakening except we spend much more time away from MC with this game.
The MC isnt you. You are not a newlywed to some redhead who didn't tell you she was pregnant. You don't have a knee injury which forced you to retire from fighting. That's not what roleplaying is. You are supposed to take the backstory of the character and take it from there. How would this character react? How do you want him to react? Would it make sense? You ARE shaping the narrative by controlling the MC, but the problem people have is that they get so self absorbed. It should revolve around ME! VN is not a traditional RPG format. Its a novel, often with CYOA mechanics, in visual format. You shouldn't expect the same narrative style as Baldur's Gate or something.
 

AL.d

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Sep 26, 2016
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That's a weird way to put it. MC is just the point in which the main plot revolve around. Think about any literature or media. There are sometimes entire arcs where MC doesn't even show up. Do you not like it when Gon doesn't show up for entire Arcs of HxH? Or when Han is off doing his thing while luke is training with Yoda? Or when we see the stuff thats happening in Falconia in Berserk? Or when we shift to Gabby and Falco and have no idea whats going on back in Paradise Island in Attack on Titan? Would you say these are bad writers?



Maybe its impossible for you, but not for everyone. This isn't a story driven cRPG/adventure in the first place. Its a VN. Even if it was, self inserting is a terrible way to play any role playing game. You are supposed to become the character, not force the character to become you.



The MC isnt you. You are not a newlywed to some redhead who didn't tell you she was pregnant. You don't have a knee injury which forced you to retire from fighting. That's not what roleplaying is. You are supposed to take the backstory of the character and take it from there. How would this character react? How do you want him to react? Would it make sense? You ARE shaping the narrative by controlling the MC, but the problem people have is that they get so self absorbed. It should revolve around ME! VN is not a traditional RPG format. Its a novel, often with CYOA mechanics, in visual format. You shouldn't expect the same narrative style as Baldur's Gate or something.
That's not really how it works. In cRPGs you get to "mold" the character with the decisions you make throughout the game.

And the same happens with what we call "VNs" here. In most of these games you choose how to play your characters through paths that develop both the MC and the NPCs. You want your MC to be a douchey manwhore or a faithful hubby? You pick accordingly. You want the MC to be an alpha dog or a cuck who gets off on perving his LI getting railed? You pick the respective path. Those paths reveal character traits and allow you to somewhat mold your player character. It doesn't mean that said choices reflect your RL person but they are still the choices you want to see your character make within the context of the story. That makes them "your" character.

The way you are describing VNs is more fitting for fully linear ones. In these you are essentaily a thrid party observer. But then again I don't consider those to be games in the first place.
 

ThatGuyWithaAfro

Active Member
Aug 28, 2018
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That's a weird way to put it. MC is just the point in which the main plot revolve around. Think about any literature or media. There are sometimes entire arcs where MC doesn't even show up. Do you not like it when Gon doesn't show up for entire Arcs of HxH? Or when Han is off doing his thing while luke is training with Yoda? Or when we see the stuff thats happening in Falconia in Berserk? Or when we shift to Gabby and Falco and have no idea whats going on back in Paradise Island in Attack on Titan? Would you say these are bad writers?



Maybe its impossible for you, but not for everyone. This isn't a story driven cRPG/adventure in the first place. Its a VN. Even if it was, self inserting is a terrible way to play any role playing game. You are supposed to become the character, not force the character to become you.



The MC isnt you. You are not a newlywed to some redhead who didn't tell you she was pregnant. You don't have a knee injury which forced you to retire from fighting. That's not what roleplaying is. You are supposed to take the backstory of the character and take it from there. How would this character react? How do you want him to react? Would it make sense? You ARE shaping the narrative by controlling the MC, but the problem people have is that they get so self absorbed. It should revolve around ME! VN is not a traditional RPG format. Its a novel, often with CYOA mechanics, in visual format. You shouldn't expect the same narrative style as Baldur's Gate or something.
You said is yourself which defeats your own argument... You TAKE over the MC.. Plus we name them. WE are playing the MC, WE control him SO WE are HIM or HER!

We aren't following the story of Bob and doing his whole family for him... We are TAKING over blank and doing the whole family... You see the difference between the two examples?
 
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UncleVT

Låt den rätta komma in
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Jul 2, 2017
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Im not talking about attached file, but mega-link, look, and you edit or delete
Both links are different and they were always fine. Just downloaded:
pi.jpg
PRIMAL INSTINCT...rar is the walkthrough
v.0.4.rar is the incest patch
Either you clicked wrong or you're on another page.
 

jamdan

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Sep 28, 2018
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I dont have a problem with seeing the sister scenes. Yes, we are playing as MC but its still interesting to see how the sister feels. She is obviously an important character, she gets the visions/dreams or whatever they are too. So its important for the story to see things from her POV sometimes.
 

Akamari

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May 28, 2017
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That's a weird way to put it. MC is just the point in which the main plot revolve around. Think about any literature or media. There are sometimes entire arcs where MC doesn't even show up. Do you not like it when Gon doesn't show up for entire Arcs of HxH? Or when Han is off doing his thing while luke is training with Yoda? Or when we see the stuff thats happening in Falconia in Berserk? Or when we shift to Gabby and Falco and have no idea whats going on back in Paradise Island in Attack on Titan? Would you say these are bad writers?
Err...what? I don't mind storytelling from a narrator point of view in media where I have a passive role like in literature or film, of course. This, however, is a different medium. It can offer an active role just like any other video game. Hence, if you want to embrace the active role, it's better if the story follows the player (almost) all the time. Obviously there are kinetic VN's that aren't games, but from what I can see that is not how this VN profiles itself.

This isn't a story driven cRPG/adventure in the first place. Its a VN. Even if it was, self inserting is a terrible way to play any role playing game. You are supposed to become the character, not force the character to become you.

The MC isnt you. You are not a newlywed to some redhead who didn't tell you she was pregnant. You don't have a knee injury which forced you to retire from fighting. That's not what roleplaying is. You are supposed to take the backstory of the character and take it from there. How would this character react? How do you want him to react? Would it make sense? You ARE shaping the narrative by controlling the MC, but the problem people have is that they get so self absorbed. It should revolve around ME! VN is not a traditional RPG format. Its a novel, often with CYOA mechanics, in visual format. You shouldn't expect the same narrative style as Baldur's Gate or something.
Roleplaying means you are taking on a role, a fictional reality of sorts. It's entirely up to you how you approach it, however. It can be that you became the character and roleplay it based on the character background, its personality, etc. Something completely different from you. But, you can also take the character and play it as though you and your personality merge with the character. You are in control, you make the decisions. You can just as well imagine yourself being in that character's shoes as well as imagine being someone else. Or, y'know, something in between. There isn't a right or wrong way.

If you strip away the combat, stat progression and other gameplay mechanics from a CRPG, what do you have left? Branching dialogues/choices with consequences (ideally). That's something VNs can and sometimes do have just as well. There are few of those that embrace this concept in depth (as that is demanding on the developer), but give the player enough choices that matter and it can be a roleplaying experience much like with a RPG (as far as the story is concerned).
 
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DonkeyFace

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Dec 24, 2017
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Yep, this is my main problem with this game. I just skip through all the sister scenes, but that amounts to almost half of my playthrough in this update. With other pointless stuff like dreams there isn't much left for me to enjoy.
You must have just rapidly clicked through the dream sequences, because they are hardly pointless. The dreams are where we are getting the biggest clues to what the main plot of the game is.

If the dev doesn't want people to play the MC, there shouldn't be a MC in the first place.

If the story was clearly told from a narrator point of view that would be fine. I can enjoy stories that have multiple points of view. However, that considerably raises the demands on the quality of writing. Personally, I prefer the storytelling to center around the MC, because I like to play the VN's and not just read them. I don't mind if the story occasionaly jumps away from the MC, as long as there is a good narrative purpose for it, but this is just too much.

What we have here is a hybrid that tries to combine both approaches, which I find ultimately unsatisfying.
Keep in mind this is still just the Prologue and Prologues are usually told from the Narrators point of view anyway . The story so far are events that took place 3 years ago, so we haven't even gotten to the main story yet (this looks like it is going to be one long ass story and I am very excited about that!) which will probably start at some point years 3 years down the road when the MC is back home. Clearly Alex is one of the most important characters in this story and showing what is going on in her life while the MC is away is clearly meant for the story to be able to "Hit The Ground Running" so to speak, when the main plot starts. This is very obvious, to me anyway. While I don't enjoy the Alex cut scenes as much as I do the parts centered around the MC, they still serve an important purpose yet to be realized later down the road. So far this is playing out like a movie would and I am greatly enjoying this ride.
 
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4.10 star(s) 45 Votes