VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.04a] [Zorlun]

[ouch2020]

My game is ready and im quite satisfied with the result. However, there is a big problem regarding the license of DAZ models being used and published outright in a game. What should i do? I can't afford to pay for the license of individual models and assets at the moment as this would be my first ever game. Should i just go forward with it? Will something happen? Please let me know guys if any of you had the same problem.

Ehm, this is kind of the wrong forum for a general question, but that said...

The formal answer, is that if you use DAZ Models or even almost any other "asset" in a game, you are supposed to buy the specific license, which can be (and most of the times is) more expensive than the assets itself, and very rapidly add up to a big cost.
It seems also obvious that the idea is that people (read, companies) eventually doing big commercial games or something like that, are supposed to be able to afford doing it, and that rather than rely on the mechanism for paying copyright holders that exist in various countries (the ones that apply also to music), DAZ, but also Renderosity, probably also because they are based in USA, foresee a separate fee paid directly to and through them.
Not buying that license and using the characters in a game, will technically make you liable for being asked to pay after, and maybe more.

The short, less formally correct, answer...
I think you can bet money that most people making games of the type you find on F95, sponsored through Patreon or Subscribestar, and even at least some on Steam, have not paid the extra license for that type of use, and I never heard of DAZ going to do a systematic "search and destroy" mission to find everybody on Patreon, Subscribestar, F95, etc. who may be using their models without paying that specific license (and they would need to be able to prove it).
There are some authors of specific assets who occasionally do DMCA requests (in USA, it is valid) to take down assets being shared on some fora (with some funny/a bit hypocritical cases), but never heard any of them going to do the kind of "search and destroy" thing I was mentioning either.
It would just cost too much, due to the whole complexity of the thing, for the money they would make, to go hunting for every single game author.

In practice, it is probable that you would be more at risk that Patreon (if you plan to try getting sponsored through it) decides to do morality police and threatens to kill your page, like it happened to Zorlun.

 

[ouch2020]

No need for the incest patch as of yet. It hasn't been updated yet to v3.10.

Note to the public, since I got some stuff to do, I cannot guarantee the incest patch will be out today or in the next couple of days, which means, it may come out only next Friday or Saturday.

 

[TheLecher]

My game is ready and im quite satisfied with the result. However, there is a big problem regarding the license of DAZ models being used and published outright in a game. What should i do? I can't afford to pay for the license of individual models and assets at the moment as this would be my first ever game. Should i just go forward with it? Will something happen? Please let me know guys if any of you had the same problem.

Ehm, this is kind of the wrong forum for a general question, but that said...

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I would like to provide a little more clarification on this issue, since it gets into one of my fields of interest, which is intellectual property rights and copyright laws.

But first a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and I don't provide legal advice. When I talk about the law, I am giving my best understanding of what I have read and/or heard from people who know this stuff better than I do, and I won't accept any liability for the information I provide. /disclaimer.

The interactive licenses are actually only needed when you are using the 3D assets themselves in the game in a way which allows the player to interact with them directly, hence the name "interactive license." As long as you are using the Daz assets to create 2D images, and the players of your game are not interacting with the 3D assets, you do not need an interactive license.

Even though the Daz rendered images in these games look 3D, and we call it 3D art, the fact is that it's still a 2D image. Take Project Myriam, for example. The player can't take control of the camera, rotate it, and look at the image from a different angle. The image doesn't actually exist in a different angle. It only exists in a 2D form. So, if you're making a Ren'Py game with Daz render art, you will probably never need an interactive license.

It would be the same for an RPGM game in which you used Daz to render out still images for character sprites or environments. Even if you have animated character sprites, as RPGM games typically do, you would normally animate the sprites by splicing together a number of still 2D images. And if you had cutscenes which used Daz renders, either still images or animations, they would still be 2D images and animations, despite looking 3D, because the player could not control the camera and view the image from different angles or different levels of zoom.

To give you an example of when you would need an interactive license from Daz, let's say that you are making your adult game in the Unreal engine, and you're using a Daz environment, such as one of those completely furnished houses which are available in the Daz store, as your game environment. And you use a Daz character, wearing Daz clothing assets, as the player character in the game. The player is now controlling a 3D Daz asset, walking around in another 3D Daz asset, while wearing a 3D Daz asset. For that, you would need separate interactive licenses for each and every asset you used.

Or imagine that you create a game, in whatever engine, which allows the player to modify their outfit. They can load in different clothing items, rotate the camera to show the clothing from different angles, maybe change the outfit colors, and so forth. This is interacting with the actual 3D assets, the clothing, so this would require an interactive license.

But as long as you are just using the Daz assets to create 2D artwork which you put into your game, you don't need an interactive license. You only need the license which comes with every asset you buy in the Daz store, or the Renderosity store, or the Renderotica store. Basically, if you bought the asset, and didn't pirate it, you also received a limited license to use the asset in creating artwork, and you don't need any other licenses to use your artwork. You would just need additional licenses to use the 3D assets in other ways.

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

It's not possible to get both right now, the threesome date isn't implemented. If you try to use console commands to set the variables to get both solo dates on the same playthrough it'll give you Danny's date. My recommendation if you just wanna see both and don't care about having a useful save file afterwards is to use jump commands. (ch3_27_date_with_mike and ch3_27_date_with_danny are the relevant labels). When I did this it complained that some variables were undefined, just rollback and set them to True as they pop up. Also note you need 20 Trust or more (MCtrait['Trust']) for Danny's date to go anywhere.

But Myriam does have a 3some in this update with Mike and a new guy on the pool table at the barand also in the theatre with Tbone

 

[Viressa]

But Myriam does have a 3some in this update with Mike and a new guy on the pool table at the bar

Yeah but

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[OUndrAnt]

The date night depend on your choices, with four roads possible, date with Danny alone, Mike alone, both or them or staying home. This update only the two solo scenes are up, the two others will be on the next one.
For solo Mike, you need to Myriam get mad at Danny during the first cop date scene and leave early, then let Mike give you a ride home (inviting him in is optional, but will have some minor flavor differences).
For solo Danny, you need Myriam to get totally hammered during the first cop date scene and stay the night with Danny.
If you're not on one of this two roads, the update will stop until the next one with either a new date with both or Myriam staying home with other adventures.

Poor Zorlun. This man really have the patient to answer the same questions over and over again without getting mad or telling people to use the search bar, a true gentleman .

 

[Zorlun]

Yeah but

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Yeah, the two of them are kind of assholes, each in their own way, both of them are doomed relationships that will lead to their own ending at some point, though as I did for Anthony, I will have to come back to their ending later on (why? Because I still want to think on the format of my endings, I want to give something homogenous about them so I'll wait to work on them when I'll reach a point where I have a better vision on them.

Poor Zorlun. This man really have the patient to answer the same questions over and over again without getting mad or telling people to use the search bar, a true gentleman .

If you look at this answer, you will see that I copy/paste it quite a bunch of time already. ^^
But yes, I usually try to be polite and respectful, and answer even if my mind is screaming in agony, on multiple points it would be a failure on my part to be an asshole about it, be it as a fellow human being or even professionally.

 

[Sadowdark]

How many chapters will there be in this story ?

 

[xapican]

How many chapters will there be in this story ?

Can't say for now how many chapters there will be, I have already some in mind, but want to do more, so not sure yet. On the end front, yes, there will be "good", "bad" and "green" endings (sorry, couldn't resist the temptation), they'll depend on the choices and the variables.

 

[ouch2020]

But first a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and I don't provide legal advice. When I talk about the law, I am giving my best understanding of what I have read and/or heard from people who know this stuff better than I do, and I won't accept any liability for the information I provide. /disclaimer.

The interactive licenses are actually only needed when you are using the 3D assets themselves in the game in a way which allows the player to interact with them directly, hence the name "interactive license." As long as you are using the Daz assets to create 2D images, and the players of your game are not interacting with the 3D assets, you do not need an interactive license.

I am not a full lawyer either, though I worked professionally on subjects that included software licenses and also copyright for the images and similia, so, one has to read the terms of the license, to know what is allowed.
The fact they use the word "interactive" in itself means nothing, because depends on how they define "interactive" in their license, USA law .

On the other hand, even if I did not read the full EULA (I leave that pleasure to others ), the short answer is that you are right, to some extent, looking at DAZ (see below)

"An Interactive License is required when using or distributing 3D content from the Daz 3D store, whether modified or in its original form, in video games or other applications. This is because apps and video games use, alter, or manipulate the original 3D data, rather than 2D rendered images (one exception being content created using a stack of renders, such as a sprite — in which case the standard agreement would suffice)."

So, I would say 2D renders should be OK (though if you go to a lawyer, remember they love opinions, especially in the "common law" system , and they are not responsible). They even say that in practice if you create a sprite by superimposition of 2D renders, it is ok.
But if e.g. you create a kind of "3D" video, then it is not OK, even if the player does not really interact with it to change the camera angle, only sees it (which makes me wonder about games made with Unity).

Notice if one wants to collaborate with others, you can also give them a scene subset file with your characters, or one for each, or something with similar if partial purpose (character preset), and it would not be a problem (because they will need anyway to have the assets, the subscene file just will get them all the elements, morphs, clothes, poses, etc.).
If one distributes the full components, that would be in theory a problem, unless everything you use was made by the person or created mixing "merchant resources".

I know most of the stuff on Renderhub has broader freedom of use (but the single author can set tighter limits), while I think Renderosity is more similar to Daz, but I admit I never checked the exact terms of the base license of Renderosity.

Again, I think they are really thinking about someone doing something like a video or a movie using the assets from DAZ, eventually exported to other software which may be better at making videos, not at someone making a game using Ren'py.

 

[ouch2020]

He is the dev so he knows what's the best for his game but between beastiality and incest I think the first one is way worse. Since he is already going the patch thing, I don't get why adding incest would be an issue. But like I said it's his game and if he, at least for now, doesn't want to add it, we can't really do anything about it. The game is still fun.

Actually, incest is not completely off the table, just limited and kind of like playing a game with a card deck, only the fact is some people play the game with e.g. a 36 cards deck (no incest no bestiality), others 42 (bestaility no incest), others 52 (bestailty and incest through the relative patching).
So, it depends on which table you are playing
In case someone wonder, yes, even I don't remember the name anymore, I played it last time many years ago, I would need to focus for it to come back to mind, but there is for real at least one card game (but I don't know if it is played at all in USA, or only in the country where I played it) where the number of cards used changes, yet the game is the same - the quantity of cards used it depends on the quantity of players, the more players, the more cards are used.

 

[ouch2020]

Can't say for now how many chapters there will be, I have already some in mind, but want to do more, so not sure yet. On the end front, yes, there will be "good", "bad" and "green" endings (sorry, couldn't resist the temptation), they'll depend on the choices and the variables.

Hmm, The Good, The Bad, and The Green ? So, we are not going to see a scene looking straight in the eyes of Myriam like this ?

You must be registered to see the links

;-)
Yes, I know the link may be messy through F95, but could not resist the temptation.

By the way, Zorlun, maybe for when Myriam and Anthony go to court... ;-)

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

Hmm, The Good, The Bad, and The Green ? So, we are not going to see a scene looking straight in the eyes of Myriam like this ?

You must be registered to see the links

;-)
Yes, I know the link may be messy through F95, but could not resist the temptation.

By the way, Zorlun, maybe for when Myriam and Anthony go to court... ;-)

Too funny, and coming from a copyright lawyer. lol
I know its because im in the US

 

[Kassan06969]

Wow. Just a SCENE from a 55 year old movie that most Americans have seen (and includes an ad to buy or rent the entire movie) and they put up a copyright claim and it's given the OK to block. Ridiculous.

 

[Zorlun]

Hmm, The Good, The Bad, and The Green ? So, we are not going to see a scene looking straight in the eyes of Myriam like this ?

You must be registered to see the links

;-)
Yes, I know the link may be messy through F95, but could not resist the temptation.

By the way, Zorlun, maybe for when Myriam and Anthony go to court... ;-)

One of the best scene in cinema in my eyes, but no, the reference is that horror ending:

 

[TheLecher]

On the other hand, even if I did not read the full EULA (I leave that pleasure to others ), the short answer is that you are right, to some extent, looking at DAZ (see below)

Yes, I know. I also read the Daz licenses, both the license which comes with the assets and the interactive license, as well as interactive licenses from other 3D asset sellers, and an opinion on the subject written by someone with experience in copyright law (They didn't list their credentials, so I don't know if they are actually a full-fledged lawyer.) before making my post.

But I'm glad that we more or less agree on the important points.

 

[Kassan06969]

All more reasons copyrights should be illegal.

 

[TheLecher]

All more reasons copyrights should be illegal.

This is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying that people who build houses on land they own have no right to live in those houses, but have to give them away to other people. Of course people who create things have a right to benefit from and make use of their creations in whatever way they choose. Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.

Also, if creators were stripped of their intellectual property rights, most of them would stop creating. There would still be some who would create, regardless, but they would be in the minority. The number of people producing worthwhile content would probably drop to around 10% of the current numbers, at a guess.

 

[Kassan06969]

This is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying that people who build houses on land they own have no right to live in those houses, but have to give them away to other people. Of course people who create things have a right to benefit from and make use of their creations in whatever way they choose. Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.

Also, if creators were stripped of their intellectual property rights, most of them would stop creating. There would still be some who would create, regardless, but they would be in the minority. The number of people producing worthwhile content would probably drop to around 10% of the current numbers, at a guess.

"Intellectual property" is a ridiculous concept. Why many of us are pirates. I think "private property" (means of production - large tracts of land, whole forests, toothbrush factory, etc) should be illegal but "personal property" (home, car, toothbrush, family level farmland should obviously be protected.)

 

[HagureBuster]

The date night depend on your choices, with four roads possible, date with Danny alone, Mike alone, both or them or staying home. This update only the two solo scenes are up, the two others will be on the next one.
For solo Mike, you need to Myriam get mad at Danny during the first cop date scene and leave early, then let Mike give you a ride home (inviting him in is optional, but will have some minor flavor differences).
For solo Danny, you need Myriam to get totally hammered during the first cop date scene and stay the night with Danny.
If you're not on one of this two roads, the update will stop until the next one with either a new date with both or Myriam staying home with other adventures.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. I know how to trigger 2nd date either with Mike or Danny now, and I have experienced both roads. I was trying to ask what is the prerequisite for the future 3some road? I would save a profile for that and use console command to activate solo date now.