VN Ren'Py Abandoned Project SAGE [Act 1 v0.19d] [Paperwork]

[Randeep44]

Indeed, and if we could streamline the backend a bit, maybe PW will dare return to his spaghetti monster one day

The way I look at the game, is that we have a multitude of different paths, which imo is the games biggest strength, so I'd like to build on that by adding in more paths, and adding paths to previous paths until even Ice Cube throws in the towel

Maybe I should look into making it easier for better writers/renderers to plug in new paths. Some kind of character sheet would also be immensely valuable(debugging values for events etc), I could start by stealing the char screen from Violated Heroine

I'm not well-versed in python, but this can be resolved by writing something else that writes Python

Well if you want to ressurect this in some way pls message me and if i can lets figure something out i do want to make these kinds of vns so let me know if you want to.

 

[toolkitxx]

Not to spoil the creativity of some here thinking of 'revial' etc but let me be very clear about something:
Just because a game gets the abandoned tag here on F95 doesnt mean there is anything free for grabs. Making a fan inspired mod based on is one thing but thinking of taking what has been done so far and just making it your own is a no go.

Everything belongs to Paperwork and i frankly feel this kind of discussion is kind of early - the corps isnt really cold yet but you already try to feed on it.

 

[Kalenz123]

Not to spoil the creativity of some here thinking of 'revial' etc but let me be very clear about something:
Just because a game gets the abandoned tag here on F95 doesnt mean there is anything free for grabs. Making a fan inspired mod based on is one thing but thinking of taking what has been done so far and just making it your own is a no go.

Everything belongs to Paperwork and i frankly feel this kind of discussion is kind of early - the corps isnt really cold yet but you already try to feed on it.

Yap. PW is the owner. So if someone were to use assets that belong to him, it would be well within his rights to come out of his hiding place to shut them down.

 

[dink81979]

I appreciate, and to my disappointment, that this hasn't been updated in 4 months, but what proof is there that it has been abandoned? There are plenty of games on here that have gone longer without being tagged as abandoned, so how do we know this has? Just asking out of curiosity as I really love this game and am still holding out hope it will continue

 

[baka]

sure, we could have "that" discussion about "rights", but remember we are in F95, and we are pirates.
even with PW around, if someone want to "mod" something I would say, sure go ahead.
this is not a take-over, but a community reaction of PW silence and instead of just bitching around or lose all hopes, theres a inspiration to work on this "abandoned" gem. nothing else. if PW returns, it will be a hallelujah moment and we can all be happy again.

 

[Creeping Death]

I appreciate, and to my disappointment, that this hasn't been updated in 4 months, but what proof is there that it has been abandoned? There are plenty of games on here that have gone longer without being tagged as abandoned, so how do we know this has? Just asking out of curiosity as I really love this game and am still holding out hope it will continue

Either the dev states it is abandoned, which is not possible if he/she/it doesn't say anything anymore or after 90 days without official statement a game can get the abandoned tag, according to the F95 rules. There are so many games out there, theu uploader, who updates the thread cannot check every game they uploaded for this criteria. So if they are not notified by a forum member or they are big fans of the game by themselves, no abandon tag, although the critieria is met.

 

[fjabbegreven]

Yap. PW is the owner. So if someone were to use assets that belong to him, it would be well within his rights to come out of his hiding place to shut them down.

You mean we have another way of getting him out of hiding? - sign me up! - legally I'm sure PW probably agreed to some terms of service, that transfers all cg rights to Illusion anyway, similar to EA's 'ownership' over sims mods. But this shouldn't be a for profit project, just some modders plodding away just like Girl Life and Witch Trainer+ and all the lovely mod communities that existed before patreon - Girl Life actually just went through a major internal shitstorm, because they considered monetisation, which cost them one of their best modders.

 

[toolkitxx]

I appreciate, and to my disappointment, that this hasn't been updated in 4 months, but what proof is there that it has been abandoned? There are plenty of games on here that have gone longer without being tagged as abandoned, so how do we know this has? Just asking out of curiosity as I really love this game and am still holding out hope it will continue

Longo McFap! already explained it quite well - let me just add this to it:

We dont know. The F95 rules where meant for a 'normal' situation which we dont have currently. The entire world has issues with a little virus which has caused complete changes not only for a few but for many a people. 'Normal' rules dont really apply for a lot of us for some time now and the effects of this period havnt even shown themselves in full yet. So the tag here is just the execution of a standard organizational rule without taking into consideration that the world in general is still in turmoil in many aspects.

 

[fjabbegreven]

Longo McFap! already explained it quite well - let me just add this to it:

We dont know. The F95 rules where meant for a 'normal' situation which we dont have currently. The entire world has issues with a little virus which has caused complete changes not only for a few but for many a people. 'Normal' rules dont really apply for a lot of us for some time now and the effects of this period havnt even shown themselves in full yet. So the tag here is just the execution of a standard organizational rule without taking into consideration that the world in general is still in turmoil in many aspects.

Sure it's just a tag, I think we've gone over most of the possibilities in the thread, meanwhile I'd like to take a look at the code, and see if I can make heads and tails of it, and maybe improve it - if it leads to just me getting a little smarter, that's good, if it leads to a flourishing mod community, that great, if it leads to PW's triumphant return, that's brilliant

Maybe he's on a Daz obsession spree, and working hard on a remastered Amy, besides most of the suggested stuff is either present in the current version as CG or in the old version as events that don't really fit anymore, so with a few tweaks we could have a lot more(lower quality) content.

It's the old question of whether to only fix bugs or to add in cut content, I was there with VtmB and Kotor2, and I still haven't made up my mind which is the better approach, but a least we can have a look see

 

[defd©™]

This project is not abandoned!

 

[Latecomer]

This project is not abandoned!

is this a wishlist or do you have evidence for this claim?

 

[defd©™]

is this a wishlist or do you have evidence for this claim?

the evidences are related with the rules about the abandon tag that is not always applied for all devs in the same way
I can only replay that there are NO EVIDENCES that game was officially abandoned because 3 months are not sufficient
3 months is not enough in a very long story like this

when a game tells a story so eventful and normal that it takes more and more time to keep the story from becoming stupid

1) His patreon is still active and i think that the patreon web site rules are more precise about that

there are many games mark with this tag but they are usually only false starts of a game that is in a starting phase and was abandoned also in the dev patreon page

2) Katie's Corrupton this game was marked as abandoned for more than one year in f95 (patreon active) the dev have lost a lot of supporters but 2 months ago the was complete... i have play the last incomplete version and it easy to understand that the was very near to be complete... more the game become near to the end more time requires for made it

... the game was easy to play and fun even when tagged abandoned

3) Lida's adventures this was market as abandoned after just 3 months too and it is in working progress... yes slow update but good work requires time

4) Liza's Story is not marked as abandoned but the last update was about 9 months ago
this game is only at day 7... but i think Liza deserve more supporters and i'm glad that was not added in the abandoned games list

5) the great story of Devin and her misfortunate life will be the next?

also the super famous The Tyrant comes with a dev that requires more than 6 months to make good update

I'm tired to add links but there are a lot of games in the same condition of the above

There is an easy way to avoid this rule and many developers do very fast but really poor updates and this rules cause problems
because the smarter dev that just add 2 or 3 renders every 3 months like JOHN that is is still at the end of DAY 9 since about 1 year ago (the dev just add some fix and render on 2 different update) and do not forget stopperArt have this game with "ONHOLD" tag
.. and what is the difference between abandoned and onhold?

Abandoned cause damage on the devs that can loose supporters
"onhold" seems to be just for "friends" and sly developers?

StopperArt started a third game called Paola (also incomplete) but every updates from this dev are very short
do not forget that John started in the 2018 and the contents are just at the 9 days in 2 years (about 10 minutes.. ok 1 hour?.. of play time)

Project sage requires about 8 hours for play from the start and started in March 2018 here and was on RPGM ...continued in Renpy and comes with a full great story a lot of renders and a lot of different paths.. every update is always about 1 full game made by other sly developers that follow this stupid rule

I'm glad for stoperArt, he deserve is suppoters because he is a sly guy ... but i prefer to support serious devs

do you need more evidences about how this rule that was made with good intentions is very wrong?
the rule must consider the amount of time required for make a good update and this rule seems to ignore the most important aspects related to the quality of a creative developer ... speed is not synonymous of quality

Project Sage is one of the best game here and the dev deserve respect because this game is not so easy
Also PAPERWORK has already finished games... this is not the first story for him

I'm really sure this is just another error caused by the f95 abandoned rule!

This rule does the sly people a favor and causes damage to serious developers.

if the game is in starting phase this rule is corect because 3 month for a shrt game that is demo phase are enough
but if the game is a super big game that requires days to be played until the latest update... 3 month are not enough... in this kind of games also 1 year or more is required and the devs deserve his supporters.. I play Project sage from the start every 3 or 6 months..

a 10 minutes demo game deserve only to be deleted

Just my opinion

 

[Ayhsel]

the evidences are related with the rules about the abandon tag that is not always applied for all devs in the same way
I can only replay that there are NO EVIDENCES that game was officially abandoned because 3 months are not sufficient
3 months is not enough in a very long story like this

when a game tells a story so eventful and normal that it takes more and more time to keep the story from becoming stupid

1) His patreon is still active and i think that the patreon web site rules are more precise about that

there are many games mark with this tag but they are usually only false starts of a game that is in a starting phase and was abandoned also in the dev patreon page

2) Katie's Corrupton this game was marked as abandoned for more than one year in f95 (patreon active) the dev have lost a lot of supporters but 2 months ago the was complete... i have play the last incomplete version and it easy to understand that the was very near to be complete... more the game become near to the end more time requires for made it

... the game was easy to play and fun even when tagged abandoned

3) Lida's adventures this was market as abandoned after just 3 months too and it is in working progress... yes slow update but good work requires time

4) Liza's Story is not marked as abandoned but the lost update was about 9 months ago
this game is only at day 7... but i think Liza deserve more supporters and i'm glad that was not added in the abandoned games

5) the great story of Devin and her misfortunate life will be the next?

also the super famous The Tyrant comes with a dev that requires more than 6 months to make good update

I'm tired to add links but there are a lot of games in the same condition of the above

There is an easy way to avoid this rule and many developers do very poor updates and this rules cause problems
because the smarter dev that just add 2 or 3 renders every 3 months like JOHN that is is still at the end of DAY 9 since about 1 year ago (the dev just add some fix and render on 2 different update) and do not forget stopperArt have this game with "ONHOLD" tag
.. and what is the difference between abandoned and onhold?

Abandoned cause damage on the devs that can loose supporters
"onhold" seems to be just for "friends" and sly developers?

StopperArt started a third game called Paola (also incomplete) but every updates from this dev are very short
do not forget that John started in the 2018 and the contents are just at the 9 days in 2 years (about 10 minutes of timeplayng)

Project sage requires about 8 hours for play from the start and started in March 2018 here and was on RPGM ...continued in Renpy and comes with a full great story a lot of renders and a lot of different paths.. every update is always about 1 full game made by other sly developers that follow this stupid rule

I'm glad for stoperArt, he deserve is suppoters because he is a sly guy ... but i prefer to support serious devs

do you need more evidences about how this rule that was made with good intentions is very wrong?
the rule must consider the amount of time required for make a good update and this rule seems to ignore the most important aspects related to the quality of a creative developer ... speed is not synonymous of quality

Project Sage is one of the best game here and the dev deserve respect because this game is not so easy
Also PAPERWORK has already finished games... this is not the first story for him

I'm really sure this is just another error caused by the f95 abandoned rule!

This rule does the sly people a favor and causes damage to serious developers.

Just my opinion

I think you are discussing two related but very different things. I cannot claim I know enough about the "Abandoned" tag and whether it has been evenly applied or not.

I think the reason why this game is currently considered abandone by F95 rules is not the time without update but the time without communication. I follow several games that can have no update in more than 6 months, but developers have remain active in the community. It does make me wonder how it would work if dev have not released anything in two years but was still communicating with their public on the website, but that is another topic.

I wish you are right and dev continues working. But it is undeniable that there is no communication.

I think everybody can have a few days of stress/problems/alien abduction/events in general that can take one's attention from their jobs and make it hard to make a message. But we know he has been online in the website, so it is harder to know what is going on here, as living a message "I'm alive, more details later", takes only 10 additional seconds, conditional on being online in the website. But again, this is just what like when I am supporting somebody (I am not supporting this project, just mentioning what I would like if I did and what I like about the projects I do support). Everybody is free to do what they want, of course.

 

[defd©™]

I know it is a long post my previous one... but I hope that can help someone to be patience with the great developers!

 

[defd©™]

I wish you are right and dev continues working. But it is undeniable that there is no communication.

I'm not with you in this
because communication is also a problem sometime
if the game was on the start ... maybe in this case the rule would be ok

and Katie's corruption was 1 year marked causing demage to the dev

Lida's is also example of the communication problem

 

[defd©™]

the abandoned tag rule must be revisited to me

 

[Ayhsel]

I'm not with you in this
because communication is also a problem sometime
if the game was on the start ... maybe in this case the rules

anf Kayie's corruption
And
Lida's are exemple of the communication problem

It is not whether you agree with me or not. There has been no communication for more than three months and clearly no update. So F95 rule applies: game is CONSIDERED abandoned. Of course, unless dev themselves say "game is abandoned" we cannot know. Veqvil returned to the game with an update, so the game stopped being abandoned BEFORE he came back, but for that time it was CONSIDERED abandoned by F50 rules.

If you like, the "abandoned" tag should be considered "in probability terms": "with a high probability, the game is abandoned". In other words, experience says that under those conditions the most likekly result is that the game was abandoned. Pure statistics.

the abandoned tag rule must be revisited to me

That is totally fine, but it is another discussion to have with F95 evil overlords that we love. Given the CURRENT rule, the tag applies.

 

[defd©™]

so if there is a communication problem that dev is no more friend of f95 website?...
mmmm i think that rules makes for friends and sly people is not good
the merit of having written a good story makes it clear who is serious and who is smart
when someone have serious problem... also cut communication

if the dev has not officially communicate 3 months are not enough...

 

[defd©™]

a game so far in storyline cannot be considered abandoned only because of communication problems
that's why the rules of the Patreon website can protect against this
and if by doing all the begging and throwing salt and shaking all the pepper cornetti .... he was dead?

 

[defd©™]

That is totally fine, but it is another discussion to have with F95 evil overlords that we love. Given the CURRENT rule, the tag applies.

yes that is totally fine and it is not another discussion... because is related with abandoned tag
someone ask me for evidences...

this are my evidences and all are strictly related in one discussion