VN Ren'Py Completed Rebirth [Ep.1-5 All in One] [LikesBlondes]

[FunFuntomes]

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Progress update
Hi

We're in a bit of a bind from a narative standpoint. We're nearing the end of the update. But if we push much further into what's to come, we won't end it in a good spot. Meaning we'll end it right in the middle of an action scene. But if we don't push far enough, it will be too short.
No worries, though. We'll figure it out. We'll probably just bring up a character scene that we had planned for later, that's shorter, and end the update right at the begining of the action one. All the images are done. And we'll be releasing this weekend.

Best regards
Likesblondes

before we go to the serious part... is it juts my eyes decieving me or is Ivy more stacked in this render ?

I don't think that is the "action" scene in question here....... just guessing.

we know that the update will see the outcome of previous choices,as of previous status update,and all points at Laurie and her Sharonsaveslaurie variable.... my speculation at this point is that Laurie will be attacked and , to save her, she'll be turned by recieving blood from both MC and Sharon. Her embrace transformation will be instantaneous (the character scene that the devs planned for later) and Laurie will feel the hunger. Since the preview shows Ivy in the caves Laurie will see her as food and will try to drink her. MC and Sharon will realise what's going on and will intercept her. and the action scene will be about restraining Laurie without hurting her.

 

[Garvelt]

Are we finally dusting off the claws next month? I can't believe it. Hopefully from next month onward we'll be seeing more action scenes in general, because that's the only thing lacking in the story so far.

 

[Arigon]

before we go to the serious part... is it juts my eyes decieving me or is Ivy more stacked in this render ?

we know that the update will see the outcome of previous choices,as of previous status update,and all points at Laurie and her Sharonsaveslaurie variable.... my speculation at this point is that Laurie will be attacked and , to save her, she'll be turned by recieving blood from both MC and Sharon. Her embrace transformation will be instantaneous (the character scene that the devs planned for later) and Laurie will feel the hunger. Since the preview shows Ivy in the caves Laurie will see her as food and will try to drink her. MC and Sharon will realise what's going on and will intercept her. and the action scene will be about restraining Laurie without hurting her.

I love reading theories and you usually have some very engaging ones.
This is one I am going to ponder. Don't have long to ponder with upcoming release but still I shall ponder. I am not saying I dislike any part of it, but I do think only one vampire can save Laurie and that is Sharon's embrace, not the MC unless Sharon who has never done it tries to talk the newbie through it. Blind leading the Blind, so I think Sharon will follow her heart and make it work.
The Ivy angle is a new thought. She is a love interest so having Laurie scratch her eyes out and possibly snack her down might be ok if we had more time to invest feelings into Ivy. Since we have not, I think she is safe from Laurie at least. Sharon can stop Laurie with a glance and a word. The MC can Whisper her, which I think he would not choose to do unless it was a dire situation.
His Whisper is like owning a .44 in an apartment building. Sure it can blow away an intruder, but it can go through walls to kill neighbors with unintended consequences. I think we are starting to realize that with our blood doll attempt.

I think our first big time action scene is coming, and it will be Frank vs. MC, Merrick, Sharon, Andrew, Laurie, Carmen and Ivy. I think Laurie will get severely mauled, and while our enraged MC destroys Frank with a capital D, Sharon, knowing that her love for the MC would ask that she save Laurie, will embrace her to save her. This will have tons of comic relief as the two of them compete for MC love and Laurie's spunk gets almost a free pass as Sharon's childe to annoy the shit out of her mommy, which will annoy the MC not in the least by this point. Calisto shall be greatly entertained.

Just my theory.
Peace all!

 

[D3xzalias]

I think our first big time action scene is coming, and it will be Frank vs. MC, Merrick, Sharon, Andrew, Laurie, Carmen and Ivy. I think Laurie will get severely mauled, and while our enraged MC destroys Frank with a capital D, Sharon, knowing that her love for the MC would ask that she save Laurie, will embrace her to save her. This will have tons of comic relief as the two of them compete for MC love and Laurie's spunk gets almost a free pass as Sharon's childe to annoy the shit out of her mommy, which will annoy the MC not in the least by this point. Calisto shall be greatly entertained.

I highly doubt Frank is going to be an ally to us. Merrick said he was digging up something ancient. Frank has proven to us that he is actually digging up something in that Nos Hideout. I honestly think Frank is the first one to try to protect the ancient and also get diablerized by it, Just to kick-start her awakening. Then she notices our little friend group. She attacks Laurie mortally wounding her. Imo they retreat closing up the Nos hideout. Go back home and try to save Laurie she get turned and they save her undead live. then return to the nos hideout. While they return to the Nos hideout the Ancient is an a frenzy Frank didn't have enough blood to satisfy her craving. Our little team get's ready for the fight of there lives with back and forth blows. Our Mc awakens his inner beast scares everyone, Nobody knows what to do. Our MC diablerizes the Ancient that frank dug up and becomes even more powerful. end of episode

 

[Hildegardt]

It all depends on how close to the source this story is kept. It seems obvious that they're digging out a sarcophagus, which is supposed to be dangerous, but it's not obvious how ancient vampires fit into the lore. Like, according to the source, the MC's ability to have multiple powers would put him in the 2nd generation of vampires, so even more powerful than anything they could be digging out. I think the MC will turn into a major player, when it turns out that he's an earlier generation than the other characters thought was possible, but I doubt that Callisto is the original vampire.
LikesBlondes seems to really be into the domination thing and this is the way for the MC to end up as vamp daddy. But I feel like it's too early in the story to already kill an ancient.

 

[c3p0]

It seems obvious that they're digging out a sarcophagus, which is supposed to be dangerous, but it's not obvious how ancient vampires fit into the lore. Like, according to the source, the MC's ability to have multiple powers would put him in the 2nd generation of vampires, so even more powerful than anything they could be digging out. I think the MC will turn into a major player, when it turns out that he's an earlier generation than the other characters thought was possible, but I doubt that Callisto is the original vampire.

We know from LikesBlondes that VisionGirl is a myth even for Calisto, thus Gen(VisionGirl) << Gen(Calisto) and Gen(MC)=Gen(Calisto+1), therefore MC would be at least a third Gen vampire.

 

[Hildegardt]

We know from LikesBlondes that VisionGirl is a myth even for Calisto, thus Gen(VisionGirl) << Gen(Calisto) and Gen(MC)=Gen(Calisto+1), therefore MC would be at least a third Gen vampire.

In VTM the Antediluvians are 3rd generation vampires and the originators of the different clans. If the game is referencing this lore in any way, then the MC would be one generation earlier than the originators, because he can have powers of different clans. This game doesn't really have vampire clans other than the Nos, but it's keeping the tradition of the sire handing down their powers to the childe.
I think one big reveal is going to be that the MC is a very early generation vampire and thus more powerful than Sharon or Marcus and his clique, so he can be vampire daddy even though he's very young. But the question is how much of the antediluvian lore is going to get borrowed and how Callisto and the ancient vampire fit into this.

 

[D3xzalias]

In VTM the Antediluvians are 3rd generation vampires and the originators of the different clans. If the game is referencing this lore in any way, then the MC would be one generation earlier than the originators, because he can have powers of different clans. This game doesn't really have vampire clans other than the Nos, but it's keeping the tradition of the sire handing down their powers to the childe.
I think one big reveal is going to be that the MC is a very early generation vampire and thus more powerful than Sharon or Marcus and his clique, so he can be vampire daddy even though he's very young. But the question is how much of the antediluvian lore is going to get borrowed and how Callisto and the ancient vampire fit into this.

We figured out that MC is a 5th gen, Calisto 4th gen, Vision girl a 2nd gen. and since we don't know who sired Calisto
If you go back trough this thread you find some more talk about generations also on why and how

 

[andrew david irving]

Hi D3xzalias, whilst I agree that there have indeed been numerous speculations of proposed lineage on this thread, it is not as certain as you suggest. It may well be the the lineage follows the Cain originator with successive generations as you suggest (the VM model), but 'warriors of the gods' that can endow specific (perhaps different) powers does not easily fit into this format - which gods bestow which powers?- so it is not simply related to a bloodline that diverges from a single source with a dilution/separation of the powers with increasing generation. IMHO we just don't know yet, and I for one am happy to just wait and let the story unfold.

 

[c3p0]

One point is not up open to discussion:
VisionGirl is a myth even to Callisto herself and VisionGirl is not sire of Callisto. (confirmed canon by LikeBlondes)

Therefore MC can not be lower than Gen 3. This would mean VisionGirl (or similar vampire) would be the sire of Callisto. As this would be highly unlikely assume a few Gens between Callisto and VisionGirl the MC would be at around (given or take 3 to 5 gap for Callisto and VisionGirl) 5 to 7 Gen. Even that means VisionGirl would be a Gen 1 vampire.

Now I can't sleep tonight anymore.

 

[Arigon]

No no no no no no
The MC is NOT 2nd Generation.


The MC is in all likelihood 5th generation by the Source Materials
He was sired by a Methuselah and therefore has a lot more powers available from the start than most vampires develop in a few hundred years.
His Clan Disciplines at this point are Whispers, Whatever Claws is Part of, Obfuscation. He has demonstrated Auspex, Celerity, and the Visions power which is likely not part of Auspex but something else. It is perfectly acceptable to have lots of powers as a quasi elder which our MC is. Folks reading the crippled and mangled 5th edition for a guide need to put it where it belongs, in the trash can, and go back to the Second Edition books. I hate it when people want to spout stuff about VtM but use the 5th Edition as their reference. Onyx is not White Wolf. There is not enough creative talent left to come up with anything decent working for Onyx.

Frank probably is answering the call of another attractive and scary ancient, Inanna's sister Ereshkagal. Hopefully they will stop the digging before he gets too close, but I think he is going to stop digging to try and put Merrick down (he has seen too much) and the MC and company arrive to save his scaly ass.

Mostly Peace

 

[Arigon]

One point is not up open to discussion:
VisionGirl is a myth even to Callisto herself and VisionGirl is not sire of Callisto. (confirmed canon by LikeBlondes)

Therefore MC can not be lower than Gen 3. This would mean VisionGirl (or similar vampire) would be the sire of Callisto. As this would be highly unlikely assume a few Gens between Callisto and VisionGirl the MC would be at around (given or take 3 to 5 gap for Callisto and VisionGirl) 5 to 7 Gen. Even that means VisionGirl would be a Gen 1 vampire.

Now I can't sleep tonight anymore.

Yah
Vision Girl is not Calisto's Sire. She, as you point out, was a myth to Calisto. Calisto is a grand daughter at best. Probably further down.
There is an exhaustive discussion over several pages discussing this very topic, a hundred or so pages ago.
Peace

 

[Arigon]

Hi D3xzalias, whilst I agree that there have indeed been numerous speculations of proposed lineage on this thread, it is not as certain as you suggest. It may well be the the lineage follows the Cain originator with successive generations as you suggest (the VM model), but 'warriors of the gods' that can endow specific (perhaps different) powers does not easily fit into this format - which gods bestow which powers?- so it is not simply related to a bloodline that diverges from a single source with a dilution/separation of the powers with increasing generation. IMHO we just don't know yet, and I for one am happy to just wait and let the story unfold.

Yeah multiple posts.... sorry!
Folks are posting fast lol

The actual Gods they are descended or empowered from could well be the Caine analogies here.
If that is the case then Inanna could be 1st generation, and that would lower everyone in our discussion by 1 generation.
However, in Sumerian Myth Inanna was not an original goddess, so she might have a sire out there..... or not..... who knows!?
Peace Brother

 

[c3p0]

There is an exhaustive discussion over several pages discussing this very topic, a hundred or so pages ago.

And my main reasons why I don't want to go trough all of this again. We do know much more since then and thus it doesn't make sense to discuss if MC if 1 to 5 Gen vampire (1 to 3 makes none sense at all). So, the only thing we could discuss about the MCs Gen is if he is a 5 to 42 Gen vampire.

 

[andrew david irving]

Hi Arigon, and yes I agree 'who knows'. 'The gods' also usually had/have rankings, originators and lineage, and I am not aware that any of the gods were made by man - let alone by Cain specifically. It is generally accepted that men, beasts and monsters were 'created by the gods or god'. Unfortunately there is not enough information in Rebirth to pin any of this down (and there might never be enough), but I can see how it can be convenient to juxtapose the lineage of the gods and their favourites onto the VM model for vampires.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

The character in the inspirational material that very likely inspired this game was a 6th gen vampire whose sire abandoned him immediately after creation, with both the character and very nearly everyone else totally unaware of his sire's identity. His sire was a 2500 year old Greek vampire whose previous child was diabolized by an ambitious elder for their potent blood, which matches up well with Calisto, although the sire's gender and personality were different. So if we're going to assign a generation to the MC I think c3p0's 5th to 7th gen estimate fits.

 

[andrew david irving]

Hi BigStuffedTiger, yes I agree but only if you accept the premise 'assign a generation to the MC'. My comments above are based on the in-game commentary regarding 'warrior of the gods' etc. and I am not aware of any lineage in which man is a precursor of a god. This makes me question the VM fits all premise that appears so popular here, and as I have said I am happy just to go with the in-story flow and enjoy the VN to its conclusion without pre-conceptions.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

Hi BigStuffedTiger, yes I agree but only if you accept the premise 'assign a generation to the MC'. My comments above are based on the in-game commentary regarding 'warrior of the gods' etc. and I am not aware of any lineage in which man is a precursor of a god. This makes me question the VM fits all premise that appears so popular here, and as I have said I am happy just to go with the in-story flow and enjoy the VN to its conclusion without pre-conceptions.

I quite agree. While my post followed yours it wasn't meant to be a reply to you specifically so much as commentary on the overall topic being discussed. The vampire origin story/mythology may well be different and the game doesn't ever use the word generation that I can recall. I doubt very much that Cain is the origin vamp in this story, but there very probably is an origin vamp, or perhaps several origin vamps. And it's pretty clear that generation does matter given the MC's power level despite being a baby vamp, and that young vamps like the MC are looked at as potential powerups by older more experienced vamps that lack the same potential because they're further removed from the origin vamp(s).

 

[andrew david irving]

Hi BigStuffedTiger, and yes I broadly agree with your comments. However, the chosen perspective in these posts is slightly differently .... Ok so there is this lineage that started with Cain and has a sequence of generations as described in, for example, VM, but it was gods curse (according to the bible and also Hebrew legend) that we presently interpret for the purposes of this fantasy as turning him into a vampire .... In contrast other gods are present in this game that can apparently create species and bestow powerful gifts to their chosen hero's ... LikesBlond has said that Cain and Lilith are not in the picture, but rather Inanna (VG) is probably the mother goddess behind the MC and could possibly bestow on him powers that are not in his lineage (i.e. Castelo and break the VM model). To summarise, I don't believe that we are dealing with the 'plain vanilla' VM model anyway, and I am happy just to wait and see what transpires in the game.

 

[Warscared]

nice debate but as the Templar stated Callisto did a similar move 700 years ago since it was last time she reproduced witch was when the Templar went "extinct" so we can assume Callisto sense some danger and decided to create a powerful weapon of annihilation for whoever might be after her goddess!

there is another theory i have in my mind... what if Callisto injected some old vamp blood that she kept in a reliquary when turning the young one so he could be as powerful as her for when the time is right?

then she could do what she did before which was to create a powerful childe a weapon of war stash him away (probably with some bonus reliquary god´s blood for his transformation and why it took so long for him to turn) with some dimwits in terms of the general game but street smart (like Sharon) so he had time to grow into is own power for when the battle is joined!

i can assume she did it before 700 years ago, 200 years prior to the birth of the princeps and at the same time the time of the fall of Constantinople and/or the end of the kingdom of Aragon (i still can not decipher the language used by the princeps if its Aragonese or a sort of Turkish dialect that is probably an amalgamation of turk with a previous regional language)!

just my half a Penny towards the discussion!