VN Ren'Py Rebirth [Ep.5 Update 13] [LikesBlondes]

[Haast]

In that source material there was at least one ghoul that was turned by a different clan, and she got the abilities of her previous master's clan.
She had been ghouled by a Tzimetze, then turned by a True Brujah about 1000 years later, and her canon clan was Tzimetze.
But yeah normally it's based on who bites them, then again it's all up to likesblondes.
Also I think some vamps use the terms Thrall and Ghoul to mean the same thing, often feeling they are little more than tools and protectors, while others try to keep theirs safe feeling they are protectors sure, but also the closest thing they have to friends, I'd put Sharon and the MC in the second category.

 

[Arigon]

HUGE thanks to Raminita for my new signature! posting props here as it is Rebirth oriented with insertion of Bella as a teacher figure lol

 

[Raptus Puellae]

DISCLAIMER: If authors dislike me sharing this I will remove it. I always act putting the novel first.

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Hey

Again, I have to apologise for not keeping up with my progress update posts. I write them whenever I get a chance. And when I remember
Things will be like this for a little while longer I'm afraid. Real life has been kicking my ass since the beginning of the year and it's unlikely to improve until mid March.

Regarding the update itself. It will be released on Sunday or Monday after work.
But it will not be the end of the episode. We've already gone over the 200 renders we have as a goal, and haven't finished all the scenes we wanted to have in this episode. One particular Carmen scene for example, went from a planed 20 renders to something closer to 60. Things like that. They just grew as we wrote them. Content wise it will be the same size as our usual updates, but we needed more renders and more scenes than we thought to get what we wanted out of the story.
See you again soon.

Best regards
Likesblondes

by the preview it looks like Carmen's hate for vampires and her somewhat decent opinion about MC, might push her to ask to be turned to exact her revenge. and as a vampire she would be able to pull her weight when luring food into the hideout, unlike Marrick. and here comes the difficult question, who would have to grant permission for the embrace? Archon Sharon? the princeps, the questor? and if it's the latter two, could have Calisto predicted that and has all the right documents at hand?

 

[NaruNaru1]

Will we see game on Steam in the future? Would not mind to buy full version.

 

[D3xzalias]

by the preview it looks like Carmen's hate for vampires and her somewhat decent opinion about MC, might push her to ask to be turned to exact her revenge. and as a vampire she would be able to pull her weight when luring food into the hideout, unlike Marrick. and here comes the difficult question, who would have to grant permission for the embrace? Archon Sharon? the princeps, the questor? and if it's the latter two, could have Calisto predicted that and has all the right documents at hand?

I think that's the only option for Carmen Both Sharon and the Mc have a thrall (i don't like it myself i rather see Laurie be turned)
But She would definitely pull her weight with pulling in blood bags. And Since Mc is gonna live in ScottsTown and Sharon is Archon of that region. Sharon can give permission for Carmen to be turned she doesn't need anyone else blessing.

 

[Arigon]

yup
Sharon can give permission. There are vampires that are above the local lords of course, but given how instrumental the MC is in all of her Ascension and stuff, she will grant him his request, or he may not request at all and just do it. Calisto is certainly a higher authority than most if not all in the city, and I think she has had a hand in manipulating even Astrid to do her bidding and test her childe. This stirs the pot, which alleviates her boredom and or ennui.
I would say she definitely would approve of the MC doing a lot of crazy stuff, but we shall see. There will be numerous thralls by the way. Big difference in a retainer and a thrall. The term is unfortunately not really the best choice for what Sharon and Andrew have nor what Laurie will be to the MC. However, Mirri will likely be a thrall, the mayor and or chief of police etc will need to be brought under control of Archon Sharon. She knows how the game is played, if only by observation. So we shall see some good stuff soon I am thinking.
Oh and without a doubt in my mind, Carmen will get the kiss, not Laurie. Certainly if we are given any choice, that will be mine. That girl has some deep issues that can only be worked out over eternity... and she is sweet on the MC if only to stay alive.

 

[desmosome]

But Carmen is just a blood bag...

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

Ghouls, Revenants, Blood bound tools. All have different treatment in the inspirational material. However, it is essential in that material that you feed your ghouls regularly or that they find blood and are not bound to a domitor as they want to be empowered by the disciplines. So, if you want your servant to be useful, you keep them topped off. If you are just using a tool, you string them along and starve them similar to what we have seen so far with Andrew. He would still have the strength trait, but if he had to actually bid it or compete it, he would burn his blood to do so. That would cause him to begin to age. He is not old enough to turn to dust over night, but there are examples of centuries old ghouls doing exactly that. Revenants have approximately 300 year life spans, unless they stake themselves a blood bag vampire and feed him and milk him. Once they start the intake of fresh vampy blood, all aging stops. Also opens new vistas for them discipline wise.....

In the inspirational material the main distinction between a ghoul and a thrall is that the ghoul has at least 1 blood "point" of vampire blood in them. As you've noted, that blood point (roughly equivalent to 10% of an adult human's blood volume, although low gen vampire blood like the MC's is more concentrated and thus less is needed) stops the ghoul from further ageing, physically strengthens them by granting a free dot of potence, and gives them the ability to use blood points to heal physical injuries or to enhance physical attributes. They may also pick up some of their domitor's disciplines, or if they're diligent enough, unrelated physical disciplines.

A thrall on the other hand only needs to be given a drop of their domitor's blood three times, perhaps from a bottle of spiked wine, but otherwise they remain normal humans as the amount of blood inbibed is too little to alter them. Many mortal thralls never even realize they've been enthralled or that there is anything the least bit supernatural about their strong feelings for their domitor.

Ghouls require maintenance, at least 1 blood point per month, or they will be subject to irreversible and potentially accelerated ageing (a thousand year old ghoul can turn to ash in minutes). Using up all of their vampire blood on healing or physical enhancement puts them in a starved state. The rules were a bit vague on how long a ghoul that has used up all of their blood could go without blood before ageing sets in, but it would certainly be a month at most, possibly less, and during that entire time they'd be jonesing badly.

Unlike ghouls, thralls don't require much in the way of maintenance. The original rules were highly vague on how long a thralling could last without reinforcement, potentially even for centuries in the case of vampires who've been enthralled by other vampires. In later supplements it was said that blood bonds do weaken over time unless there is reinforcement, but breaking them is still hard outside of the vaulderie unless the vampire is especially abusive. A drop of blood per year won't make a ghoul or prevent an ordinary thrall from ageing, but it will keep even a highly abused thrall firmly enthralled.

I'm not going to get into revenants at this point as being born a ghoul doesn't apply to any of the characters we've met so far.

We've been kind of assuming that Laurie and Andrew are ghouls when all we know so far is that they're thralls. I'm kind of hoping that they do get a power-up out of the deal as ghouls do, but the jury is still out on that.

But Carmen is just a blood bag...

Carmen is a mighty curvy bloodbag. She may be the sole member of the MC's

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at the moment, well maybe Miri makes two, but IMHO she has definite upgrade potential. I love both her fire and her willingness to sacrifice herself for others. There is a great deal of potential for a sharp vampire to work with there. And she's so easy on the eyes...

 

[desmosome]

Carmen is a mighty curvy bloodbag. She may be the sole member of the MC's herd at the moment, well maybe Miri makes two, but IMHO she has definite upgrade potential. I love her fire.

It was a shitpost, but I'm actually weary of turning her cus I've been treating her like a real grade A asshole. Correct me if I'm wrong, but turning someone doesn't place them under your control like a thrall would be right? They would obviously be weaker due to generation difference, but still lol.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

It was a shitpost, but I'm actually weary of turning her cus I've been treating her like a real grade A asshole. Correct me if I'm wrong, but turning someone doesn't place them under your control like a thrall would be right? They would obviously be weaker due to generation difference, but still lol.

I'm not in the "Let's turn Carmen" camp, nor am I in the "One thrall is enough" camp. I'm hoping ghouls, or something similar, are very much a thing in Rebirth so both Laurie and Carmen can get power-ups without being turned. I don't think the MC is experienced or knowledgeable enough to turn anyone even if Sharon has the authority to authorize it, and I'm not convinced that Sharon has the authority just because she's now an archon. She may need to get the princep's approval.

 

[desmosome]

Man, imagine being LikesBlondes lurking this thread. Where every page is a deep philosophical debate on vampiricism, VTM lore, and it's implications on the VN.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

Man, imagine being LikesBlondes lurking this thread. Where every page is a deep philosophical debate on vampiricism, VTM lore, and it's implications on the VN.

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Oh and to answer your earlier question, yes, embracing a new vampire automatically breaks any pre-existing blood bond they may have been under as a thrall. Of course you could potentially still force or trick her into a new blood bond. Plenty of young vampires have been tricked or forced by their makers into becoming thralls. I wouldn't be surprised if Astrid intended exactly this when she got Archon Marcius to promise that she'd be the MC's new guardian. That's how the vaulderie ritual capable of breaking blood bonds became a major selling point for the Sabbat in the inspirational material.

 

[D3xzalias]

Just want to see when Carmen or Laurie gets turned, If they also goes trough the same excruciating transition like MC.
Since Mc transition lasted like a week. Hope
Likesblondes also put that part in that episode

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

It seems that Carmen might get turned after all now that they longer need Baldie's permission with Sharon being an Archon. The only problem I have with that is MC not being the only of his kind if he ends up turning someone else. Unless they decide to thrall her. It wouldn't hurt for MC to have another blood bag imo.

 

[Arigon]

I'm not in the "Let's turn Carmen" camp, nor am I in the "One thrall is enough" camp. I'm hoping ghouls, or something similar, are very much a thing in Rebirth so both Laurie and Carmen can get power-ups without being turned. I don't think the MC is experienced or knowledgeable enough to turn anyone even if Sharon has the authority to authorize it, and I'm not convinced that Sharon has the authority just because she's now an archon. She may need to get the princep's approval.

Digging into the various volumes, the city politics seems to set the Archons up as Barons of sorts. This would mean that they are responsible to monitor and prevent over feeding, and anything which violates the masquerade, which over feeding would cause. So using that as a basis, I am pretty sure Sharon has the authority. Whether she even knows the process well enough to navigate it is the real issue.
True it can happen on the fly and be a messy affair, but a lot of Sabbat mass embraces never rise, so the attrition rate will be a concern.
You can institute limits on the number of ghouls you allow in your domain, and throughout history, lords and ladies have used this to play favorites and to manipulate their "flock". I am pretty confident that Carmen will be preserved in some fashion, and of course Laurie as well. Mirri is currently walking around with vampire vitae in her system, which if not managed can be a breach of the masquerade.
I see the MC having his "Harem", being part of a larger Harem, which in turn is ultimately in the power structure of the Vision Girl. All vampires have a power structure, even the ones who claim they don't. The MC is a powerful vamp by right of his sire's blood. He can probably justify, once that gets out, whatever he wants to do, as long as Calisto does not say no.
Peace

 

[DA22]

It seems that Carmen might get turned after all now that they longer need Baldie's permission with Sharon being an Archon. The only problem I have with that is MC not being the only of his kind if he ends up turning someone else. Unless they decide to thrall her. It wouldn't hurt for MC to have another blood bag imo.

Somehow I have the idea that MC will not turn anyone for quite a while yet unless he would have no choice but to save her. He is hardly ready and comfortable with being a vampy himself. If anyone does, it is likely Sharon herself who would do so I suspect. Besides I am still not convinced that C's line does not have a very hard passing from human to vampire and quite a high unmortality rate.

 

[Arigon]

Somehow I have the idea that MC will not turn anyone for quite a while yet unless he would have no choice but to save her. He is hardly ready and comfortable with being a vampy himself. If anyone does, it is likely Sharon herself who would do so I suspect. Besides I am still not convinced that C's line does not have a very hard passing from human to vampire and quite a high unmortality rate.

Both the MC and Sharon would embrace someone to save them based on what I have seen in their personalities. No one will convince me that she would not instantly embrace Andrew, and if they find her daughter, and that Dawg has his day against the Archon, Andrew may well suffer a mortal wound in the process. Thus vampire hood, like knight hood is his destiny *insert Vader raspy breathing*
No chance that the MC would not try with Laurie if she would wounded similarly, and I have been playing as a grade A prince to Carmen and would embrace her to save her. I likewise would commit diablerie on a couple of Archons, thrall Astrid, and hang out with Fabian and Cindy in the Calisto Club. Until I am sure that Calisto would not cook off Sharon for having a mutual thralling going on, I will avoid that, understanding she would totally go for her childe thralling the new Archon Sharon.
I am excited to see what the next 48 hours brings us.

 

[DA22]

Both the MC and Sharon would embrace someone to save them based on what I have seen in their personalities. No one will convince me that she would not instantly embrace Andrew, and if they find her daughter, and that Dawg has his day against the Archon, Andrew may well suffer a mortal wound in the process. Thus vampire hood, like knight hood is his destiny *insert Vader raspy breathing*
No chance that the MC would not try with Laurie if she would wounded similarly, and I have been playing as a grade A prince to Carmen and would embrace her to save her. I likewise would commit diablerie on a couple of Archons, thrall Astrid, and hang out with Fabian and Cindy in the Calisto Club. Until I am sure that Calisto would not cook off Sharon for having a mutual thralling going on, I will avoid that, understanding she would totally go for her childe thralling the new Archon Sharon.
I am excited to see what the next 48 hours brings us.

Now I do not know if this would fit with the source material, but I would not be surprised if possible there may in the far distant future when MC's power is clear, there will come a situation that MC, Sharon, Carmen, Laurie and possibly Andrew's daughter are all vamps and connected by blood to MC even if he has not turned them himself, but Sharon did or someone like Fabian for MC at his request, if turning by Fabian would be safer as by MC as I still suspect.

 

[Arigon]

Note on the actually complicated world of thralldom/ghouling/revenants. BigStuffedTiger has brought up good points as far as they go, but just real quick-
Generally most newly sired vampires will be minimum 1 step to a bond with the sire. There have been (in inspirational materials) cases where bonds have survived Vaulderie and or the Embrace, with the pre existing bond going deep under cover, requiring only a single pull to awaken, and a single dose of vitae to go back in full force. Likewise the breaking of bonds has been a full time endeavor for groups of revenant families for almost a thousand years. Revenants are bloodlines of super ghouls. They make their own vitae, have their own family disciplines, which are of course influenced by the clan that maintains them and or created them. Inspirationally speaking, and only the major clans, not blood lines, The Tzimisce created the process in modern nights, though there is the persistent rumor that not only Mages (as in that line of WoD books) arose from Seth, who also may well be a single dose empowered super ghoul of Caine, and that any of his kids were revenants of crazy power levels.
The Tremere stole a bloodline from the Tzimisce and tailored it to their needs. The final major clan to be known to have Revenants for sure are the Giovanni, which are blood sorcerers specializing in Necromancy. They have a habit of embracing family (genetic) members, and they as a family committed horrific sins upon their progenitor Clan the Cappadocians.

Both Osirus and Set are believed to have revenants out there somewhere, and the Assamites as well.

Forgetting Revenants which have made no appearances in Rebirth, we do have thralls, which the very easy definition is someone who receives a minimum of the 3 doses (barring any funkiness) of vitae from the domitor, and then a minimum of 1 per solar year. If they do not receive that single does, the blood bond (control) is broken. Thralls who do not keep a minimum of 1 point of blood (10% of their blood supply as BST pointed out ((except very powerful blood can alter this)) will age normally if thralled for less than 50 years, and at an accelerated rate the older they get, down to instant dusting for thralls that are 300-1000 years old. Ghouls, which we are taking to mean more meaningful companions/protectors/dependents of the vampire, would require more regular maintenance and a higher level of blood supply in order to be useful to their domitor. Right now, we do not have a good feel for how LikesBlondes is treating this, except for the loss of humanity and free will aspect of the more frequent feedings. The freewill loss depends greatly on how aligned the host and the parasite are to begin with. Andrew and Sharon could likely pump a lot more blood in, as they are on the same page. However there is evidence that doing this will have more dire effects on Andrew so we are left with the image at least, that Sharon and Andrew advocate starving the ghoul.
Ok enough spouting today, at least for now, wife arrived with starbucks!

 

[Arigon]

Now I do not know if this would fit with the source material, but I would not be surprised if possible there may in the far distant future when MC's power is clear, there will come a situation that MC, Sharon, Carmen, Laurie and possibly Andrew's daughter are all vamps and connected by blood to MC even if he has not turned them himself, but Sharon did or someone like Fabian for MC at his request, if turning by Fabian would be safer as by MC as I still suspect.

I am 99% sure that Calisto's line does not have a harder time with embracing than any other line. What she does have going for her, and her children is that the blood is more potent than modern vampires, and thus takes more modifications to occur in the new vamp, thus the longer turning period. The shock at being alive that Fabian is speaking about, is probably more related to the fact no one had their free lunch on the MC while he was so inexperienced he could not defend himself. I do not believe that anything else should be read into this.