VN Ren'Py Abandoned Robbin' Hoods [0.4.2] [madmate.games]

[0011]

I updated my Unofficial Android Port to v0.3.2 Compressed & Patched.LINK.

 

[Grohal]

I feel like at this point I should reiterate what this project is about, because I feel like some people are getting wrong impression of its priorities, and I know I might get some slack but I still feel like it's something I need to do.

"This is meant to be first and foremost a learning project. Therefore any kind of criticism is both welcomed and much appreciated."

I see the second part is often quoted by some... let's say overly zealous and strongly opinionated individuals, but the first part tends to be discarded.

Allow me to expand a bit, maybe offer some insight into my thought process, maybe help put things into perspective: this project is not my favorite brainchild that I want to protect by any means, that I want to nourish and see it grow or make a career out of.

This project was meant to build on my strengths and practice everything else I'm lacking. Apart from the main story, character details and some character development this project is an ad hoc ensemble of various ideas and practices. Its main goal is to familiarize myself with the workflow of making a game and test if my hypotheses are correct, incorrect or unrefined. It's meant for me to get a hang of writing in English, converting scenes from my head into decent dialogue, improve rendering times (and at some points quality) and familiarize myself with various tools and tricks of the trade, get a hang of programming in ASL and Python, test how various ideas would be received by the public, find acceptable management system and many, many other things.


If my purpose was to create a game that I could make a decent amount of money from, I'd have made a slice of life romcom/sitcom, stuck a camera into Smoothface McLongdick's head and glued him on a conveyor belt called "story" which is for the most part an excuse to interact with a few supermodels in skimpy outfits, and then stuck as many looping animations in the whole thing as I could. Bonus points if supermodels have more than two defining characteristics and/or a hidden aspect of personality, if choices are more than "Look at her tits"/"Don't", if there are amenities such as character galleries etc.

But I chose to make something different, at least in some aspects. And I did so purposefully because I know I don't want to make that kind of game, or at least not at this time, and more importantly I want to use this oportunity to experiment as much as I can. I've made something without gratuitous sex scenes and plentiful animations, with more realistic looking models that have more realistic proportions (IMHO), each with their own background, motivation and personality, with different kinds of humor and yes, unlikable characters that aren't automatically your adversaries, where MC is not the center of the world around whom everything revolves, but just another POV character.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a snob. I do not think myself or this experiment (and I cannot emphasize this enough) as something that is just too refined for people's taste. It's completely understandable and expected that people are not here for this kind of story. Hell, I love my favorite VN, but apart from checking out the next chapter in the story, I don't touch it. Meanwhile some other games that are more gratuitous I visit frequently, so to pretend as if what I'm making here was in any way shape or form better than the norm would be at the very least hypocritical.


Anyway, I've been ranting for far too long, and it's time to summarize what I wanted to convey - I'm not making this project to become famous, to satisfy the needs and wants of the community, or to build an alternative source of income. It's meant to be first and foremost a learning project.

Perverse as it sounds, I'd rather not have this project become successful, because it would make ending it or dropping it, yes, maybe even as early as this version or next version, as some viciously suggested, that much more guilt free, and moving on to a project that I am truly passionate about that much easier.


Hope that clears some air.

As I wrote before: This game has one of the better stories around. Which, after reading this, is nearly tragic.

I also wrote before in threads for other games: the best stuff around here is when the makers do things mostly their way and maybe grab an idea or two from constructive criticism.

You are doing good in my book, even more so if this is your first shot. There are more than enough beautiful fuckfests without a proper story here and they all lack soul imo.

 

[juan palote]

I feel like at this point I should reiterate what this project is about, because I feel like some people are getting wrong impression of its priorities, and I know I might get some slack but I still feel like it's something I need to do.

"This is meant to be first and foremost a learning project. Therefore any kind of criticism is both welcomed and much appreciated."

I see the second part is often quoted by some... let's say overly zealous and strongly opinionated individuals, but the first part tends to be discarded.

Allow me to expand a bit, maybe offer some insight into my thought process, maybe help put things into perspective: this project is not my favorite brainchild that I want to protect by any means, that I want to nourish and see it grow or make a career out of.

This project was meant to build on my strengths and practice everything else I'm lacking. Apart from the main story, character details and some character development this project is an ad hoc ensemble of various ideas and practices. Its main goal is to familiarize myself with the workflow of making a game and test if my hypotheses are correct, incorrect or unrefined. It's meant for me to get a hang of writing in English, converting scenes from my head into decent dialogue, improve rendering times (and at some points quality) and familiarize myself with various tools and tricks of the trade, get a hang of programming in ASL and Python, test how various ideas would be received by the public, find acceptable management system and many, many other things.


If my purpose was to create a game that I could make a decent amount of money from, I'd have made a slice of life romcom/sitcom, stuck a camera into Smoothface McLongdick's head and glued him on a conveyor belt called "story" which is for the most part an excuse to interact with a few supermodels in skimpy outfits, and then stuck as many looping animations in the whole thing as I could. Bonus points if supermodels have more than two defining characteristics and/or a hidden aspect of personality, if choices are more than "Look at her tits"/"Don't", if there are amenities such as character galleries etc.

But I chose to make something different, at least in some aspects. And I did so purposefully because I know I don't want to make that kind of game, or at least not at this time, and more importantly I want to use this oportunity to experiment as much as I can. I've made something without gratuitous sex scenes and plentiful animations, with more realistic looking models that have more realistic proportions (IMHO), each with their own background, motivation and personality, with different kinds of humor and yes, unlikable characters that aren't automatically your adversaries, where MC is not the center of the world around whom everything revolves, but just another POV character.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a snob. I do not think myself or this experiment (and I cannot emphasize this enough) as something that is just too refined for people's taste. It's completely understandable and expected that people are not here for this kind of story. Hell, I love my favorite VN, but apart from checking out the next chapter in the story, I don't touch it. Meanwhile some other games that are more gratuitous I visit frequently, so to pretend as if what I'm making here was in any way shape or form better than the norm would be at the very least hypocritical.


Anyway, I've been ranting for far too long, and it's time to summarize what I wanted to convey - I'm not making this project to become famous, to satisfy the needs and wants of the community, or to build an alternative source of income. It's meant to be first and foremost a learning project.

Perverse as it sounds, I'd rather not have this project become successful, because it would make ending it or dropping it, yes, maybe even as early as this version or next version, as some viciously suggested, that much more guilt free, and moving on to a project that I am truly passionate about that much easier.


Hope that clears some air.

Well, as i have already stated, you have done some things right. The renders are great, the plot is decent, and Sarah and Diane are well written characters. Your English is fine. Havent found many bugs so your ASL and Python development skills seems to be working

The rest of the characters are very badly written, the MC makes no sense and is very unrealistic.

You might think you are "better" than the Devs that do a more simple plot, but you are not. Its much better to have a simpler plot, well written and with characters that make sense in the story, than having a more complex plot with characters that dont fit and doesnt make sense, like you have. The plot is good.

Another con is the robed man, which at this point you should know but i dont know why you keep using it, lets hope in your next project you refrain from using something like that.

Its funny you think "I've made something without gratuitous sex scenes", because i think the scene with your captor on the very first day you know her, in a captivity situation of which the MC should be thinking of getting away, was one of the most gratuitous i have seen in this site.

Keep learning with this project, i guess with this chapter you learned that freeroam isnt the best idea and its just a cheap way to not have to think of story links and the players know that, hopefully you can apply what you learned on the next project after this finishes

 

[Spawn420]

any help with the free roam in the detective apartment?
I found 2 pictures.. a laptop.. and the USB.. as well as a door that apparently cant be opened? not sure if that's all or i missed anything..

on a side note MC breaks into a detective's house and not even wears gloves...?

 

[Ayhsel]

I need to ask. What is the robe man everybody keeps talking about? I am not understanding the point. Are they talking about the storyteller in the story?

 

[juan palote]

So lets me ask something.

The first and second day the MC gets kidnapped, its too risky for him to leave the kidnappers house because someone might be looking for him and catch him and that would be bad for him and the Robin Hoods.

But suddenly on day 3, its ok for him to go burglar mode into an apartment.

And somehow the MC is ok that he didnt risk anything for his sister, but he risks both his and his sister for whatever the people he hasnt know for more than 3 days want?

Why couldnt he risk leaving the flat for his sister, but he can risk both his sister and himself for the strangers?

The story just doesnt make any sense

 

[DrDerpington]

The first and second day the MC gets kidnapped, its too risky for him to leave the kidnappers house because someone might be looking for him and catch him and that would be bad for him and the Robin Hoods.
But suddenly on day 3, its ok for him to go burglar mode into an apartment.
And somehow the MC is ok that he didnt risk anything for his sister, but he risks both his and his sister for whatever the people he hasnt know for more than 3 days want?
Why couldnt he risk leaving the flat for his sister, but he can risk both his sister and himself for the strangers?
The story just doesnt make any sense

Why doesnt it make any sense?
You shouldnt forget that MC suffered brain concussion so his actions being slightly weird isnt suprising. It happens.
At first MC was afraid to risk his hister, but later his sister was already dragged into the mess by the suspicious female police officer. There was no turning back after that. They had to either hide for long time and wait until things calm down or they could try to solve it as fast as possible.

I mean, he doesn't forget about his sister tho. He says multiple times about how he needs to go back and make sure shes ok / that she knows hes ok. He just chooses not to leave, he would rather fuck someone he met <1 day ago. He remembers how "important" she is to him, but chooses to listen to complete strangers instead of contacting her.

Did you read the part about BRAIN CONCUSSION??? Do you understand what that means?? The brain has suffered damage! People acting weird is quite common after concussion.

Why didn't anyone think of having the MC write a note for Malady to leave at his apartment? It would only have to say he was doing fine and that he wouldn't be able to come home for a short while, and that he would explain when he got home. Even if it wasn't directly written by the MC, it would give her SOME piece of mind.

Thats the way the mind works. If you are given plenty of time to think then you will usually come up with good solution. But if you are under time pressure then your solution might end up being substandard.
Also people in the story were clearly in panic. Panic is one the most known cause of stupid decisions. MC has also suffered brain concussion.

on a side note MC breaks into a detective's house and not even wears gloves...?

Heh, you have watched too much CSI.
First you have to consider the fact, that MC was law abiding citizen and police doesnt have his fingerprints in database. So danger is low. Normal houses are full of partial fingerprints.
Then you should consider things from the detective's perpective. She probably had something illegal on that USB. She cant report break-in because the first question she would have to answer is "What was stolen?".

 

[Deleted member 2030943]

Fun game dev. Looking forward to more

 

[juan palote]

Did you read the part about BRAIN CONCUSSION??? Do you understand what that means?? The brain has suffered damage! People acting weird is quite common after concussion.

Funny, he felt well enough form the concussion to fuck a stranger.

And to go break into a police woman apartment the very day after he couldnt leave to find his sister...

 

[Ayhsel]

Funny, he felt well enough form the concussion to fuck a stranger.

And to go break into a police woman apartment the very day after he couldnt leave to find his sister...

I am just trying to be devil's advocate here. But the whole "he could not leave in the first day to find his sister but could in the third" is actually logically consistent.

When in the look out for somebody, the first hours are the most important. After a few hours, trails get cold and search parties change the way the look out, as suspects can leave the city, remain low, most hurt members are either already in the hospital, treated or dead.

The same is true with contusions. First hours are key.

I do believe that the whole separation between MC and his sister could have been done in a more consistent way. In fact, it is only needed to make MC sleeps longer given the confusion, during which sister is in the look out and after MC awakes, he contacts her.

 

[DrDerpington]

Funny, he felt well enough form the concussion to fuck a stranger.

Easy lay with hot chick?? I would do the same in his position. Dont pretend you wouldnt do the same.

 

[juan palote]

I am just trying to be devil's advocate here. But the whole "he could not leave in the first day to find his sister but could in the third" is actually logically consistent.

When in the look out for somebody, the first hours are the most important. After a few hours, trails get cold and search parties change the way the look out, as suspects can leave the city, remain low, most hurt members are either already in the hospital, treated or dead.

The same is true with contusions. First hours are key.

I do believe that the whole separation between MC and his sister could have been done in a more consistent way. In fact, it is only needed to make MC sleeps longer given the confusion, during which sister is in the look out and after MC awakes, he contacts her.

You dont understand, Anna tells the MC that he cant leave for his sister because he could get kidnapped by their enemies and that would be bad for him and for them.

But suddenly, that isnt a problem to break into the police woman apartment.

So, breaking into the police woman apartment is worth the risk of getting caught, but finding his sister isnt, and the MC accepts that.

So the MC accepts that the agenda of the two people he knew nothing about 3 days ago, is more important than finding his sister, since one its worth the risk and the other isnt.

 

[juan palote]

Easy lay with hot chick?? I would do the same in his position. Dont pretend you wouldnt do the same.

I wouldnt, i would be trying to find a way to get out of captivity and find my sister

He was left alone in the apartment a couple of times, instead of searching for books, or do stupid things, search the flat, get something to try to break windows or the door

 

[Ayhsel]

You dont understand, Anna tells the MC that he cant leave for his sister because he could get kidnapped by their enemies and that would be bad for him and for them.

But suddenly, that isnt a problem to break into the police woman apartment.

So, breaking into the police woman apartment is worth the risk of getting caught, but finding his sister isnt, and the MC accepts that.

So the MC accepts that the agenda of the two people he knew nothing about 3 days ago, is more important than finding his sister, since one its worth the risk and the other isnt.

Did you read what I said? You are assuming it is the same thing to do that the very day or the day after they were being pursued while getting into her house happens later.

That is why I explained that the first hours are important. I am not defending nor attacking the development on the novel. Just the critique itself. Search parties do not wait indefinitely if after a few hours the person they are looking for does not turn up.

Claim what you want whether it is or not believable. Just learn that because it is not believable to you does not mean you are right about what is believable, as there can be other explanations. I just give you one. You need not accept it, does not mean is wrong.

 

[Spawn420]

Heh, you have watched too much CSI.
First you have to consider the fact, that MC was law abiding citizen and police doesnt have his fingerprints in database. So danger is low. Normal houses are full of partial fingerprints.
Then you should consider things from the detective's perpective. She probably had something illegal on that USB. She cant report break-in because the first question she would have to answer is "What was stolen?".

it doesn't matter who MC was before.. now he is helping the Robin Hoods who are supposed to be good at being thieves.. so they should have provided him with some gloves since its part of the job to leave no fingerprints behind...

as for his fingerprints probably not being in the system... she is a rouge detective who also acts outside the law when she needs to.. so she can always run his fingerprints in the system under some bs reason.. then later compare it to basically anything in any suspects apartment she decides to break into to serve her own agenda..
as for reporting the break in.. she can always claim nothing was stolen.. but she wont, not due to the usb.. but most likely due to that locked door under the staircase..

and yes I watched a lot of crime related shows shows like Dexter and many others..

 

[juan palote]

Did you read what I said? You are assuming it is the same thing to do that the very day or the day after they were being pursued while getting into her house happens later.

That is why I explained that the first hours are important. I am not defending nor attacking the development on the novel. Just the critique itself. Search parties do not wait indefinitely if after a few hours the person they are looking for does not turn up.

Claim what you want whether it is or not believable. Just learn that because it is not believable to you does not mean you are right about what is believable, as there can be other explanations. I just give you one. You need not accept it, does not mean is wrong.

This isnt a police search party, this is who knows why but clearly someone powerful that got stolen, they dont have a "2 day search party protocol" (which btw, its even low for police, no one stops looking for suspects after 2 days when they are interested in catching them)

But ok, if its believable for you, so be it, for me it isnt believable that someone is chilling in an appartment from someone that took you captive while his sister can be at danger and the next day agrees to break into a police woman apartment.

 

[Ayhsel]

This isnt a police search party, this is who knows why but clearly someone powerful that got stolen, they dont have a "2 day search party protocol" (which btw, its even low for police, no one stops looking for suspects after 2 days when they are interested in catching them)

But ok, if its believable for you, so be it, for me it isnt believable that someone is chilling in an appartment from someone that took you captive while his sister can be at danger and the next day agrees to break into a police woman apartment.

First, precisely because it is not a police search, it is more likely they search for less time than more. No matter how powerful, usually the police will have more resources for that. Specially, as what they are doing is legal. Illegal searchs are more expensive as not only you have to search, you have to do it without raising suspicion, so they usually involve less people.

Finally, you really need to start reading better. Seriously. I explicitly said that, quoting myself, I was playing devil's advocate and that the separation between MC and his sister could be done in a more consistent way. How the hell did you just read that I think it is believable, I don't know. I was just explaining to you that your claim that going after the detective's apartments some time later is NOT the same thing as going back to your house right after being pursued.

The cost of a decision scales with the probability of things going bad.

 

[juan palote]

First, precisely because it is not a police search, it is more likely they search for less time than more. No matter how powerful, usually the police will have more resources for that. Specially, as what they are doing is legal. Illegal searchs are more expensive as not only you have to search, you have to do it without raising suspicion, so they usually involve less people.

Finally, you really need to start reading better. Seriously. I explicitly said that, quoting myself, I was playing devil's advocate and that the separation between MC and his sister could be done in a more consistent way. How the hell did you just read that I think it is believable, I don't know. I was just explaining to you that your claim that going after the detective's apartments some time later is NOT the same thing as going back to your house right after being pursued.

The cost of a decision scales with the probability of things going bad.

I read you were playing the devisl advocate, but i need to reply to the arguments you are giving when playing devils advocate.

Illegal searchs will keep going, if the Mafia is looking for you, you wont be safe after two days, that doesnt make sense.

The same if someone really powerful pays someone to look for you, they wont stop serarching after TWO DAYS

 

[Ayhsel]

I read you were playing the devisl advocate, but i need to reply to the arguments you are giving when playing devils advocate.

Illegal searchs will keep going, if the Mafia is looking for you, you wont be safe after two days, that doesnt make sense.

The same if someone really powerful pays someone to look for you, they wont stop serarching after TWO DAYS

I am trying to be as nice as possible. Please re read the post I made.

After a few hours, trails get cold and search parties change the way the look out

First, precisely because it is not a police search, it is more likely they search for less time than more

I never said stop. I said you change the way you look. And I only brought the comparison with the police precisely because if anything, putting someone at the house of the suspect just waiting for him to return takes man power away. Most mafias don't have the amount of man power police do. It is also true that police do tend to have way more things to do, so in the end is a fight between resources and responsibilities.

But that is not to say your claim is right. Your claim is "MC is inconsistent because MC does x when he does not do y". And I was explaining why doing x and doing y are not necessarily the same. Again, you don't need to buy the argument. But you are not necessarily right about it either. y and x are not necessarily comparable.

 

[juan palote]

I am trying to be as nice as possible. Please re read the post I made.


I never said stop. I said you change the way you look. And I only brought the comparison with the police precisely because if anything, putting someone at the house of the suspect just waiting for him to return takes man power away. Most mafias don't have the amount of man power police do. It is also true that police do tend to have way more things to do, so in the end is a fight between resources and responsibilities.

But that is not to say your claim is right. Your claim is "MC is inconsistent because MC does x when he does not do y". And I was explaining why doing x and doing y are not necessarily the same. Again, you don't need to buy the argument. But you are not necessarily right about it either. y and x are not necessarily comparable.

Ok lets say we agree to disagree on when would a private investigator or a mercenary group hired to find someone would stop actively searching for that someone.

Now lets go to x and y.

Day 2, MC is looking for books to read instead of trying to search for his sister because its too dangerous to leave the flat. Lets assume he bought the its too dangerous speech and is scared to leave.

Day 3, MC agrees to leave the flat and go, with his sister, to break into an apartment for the sake of someone he has met for 2 days and have kidnapped him. Without even asked what changed that makes today less dangerous than yesterday.

How are not comparable? Both need him to leave the flat for something, and there is less than 24 hours difference.