VN Ren'Py Abandoned Robbin' Hoods [0.4.2] [madmate.games]

[juan palote]

I am trying to be as nice as possible. Please re read the post I made.


I never said stop. I said you change the way you look. And I only brought the comparison with the police precisely because if anything, putting someone at the house of the suspect just waiting for him to return takes man power away. Most mafias don't have the amount of man power police do. It is also true that police do tend to have way more things to do, so in the end is a fight between resources and responsibilities.

But that is not to say your claim is right. Your claim is "MC is inconsistent because MC does x when he does not do y". And I was explaining why doing x and doing y are not necessarily the same. Again, you don't need to buy the argument. But you are not necessarily right about it either. y and x are not necessarily comparable.

Ok lets say we agree to disagree on when would a private investigator or a mercenary group hired to find someone would stop actively searching for that someone.

Now lets go to x and y.

Day 2, MC is looking for books to read instead of trying to search for his sister because its too dangerous to leave the flat. Lets assume he bought the its too dangerous speech and is scared to leave.

Day 3, MC agrees to leave the flat and go, with his sister, to break into an apartment for the sake of someone he has met for 2 days and have kidnapped him. Without even asked what changed that makes today less dangerous than yesterday.

How are not comparable? Both need him to leave the flat for something, and there is less than 24 hours difference.

 

[madmate.games]

a bit of freeroam isn't a bad thing

That's what I need to investigate now. I know that many people absolutely despise free roam, but I also know most don't mind it. I've already asked around some of my Patreons and their opinions were mostly positive and people I've asked understood what I tried to do and were quite fine with that segment.
So, there are a couple of things that I need to figure out now about this segment of the game... For example, you saying "it just took me out of the game as it kind of came out of nowhere" is very important because I thought I made the whole transition quite organic, and that might not be the case.
Anyway, several possible hypothesis are possible when describing with this issue, if we can call it that. It could be the issue of unexpected and sudden switch, as you implied, it could be the lack of investment into story, it could be a case of bad implementation, or it could be simply a matter of taste. Or, of course, all of those things combined.

any help with the free roam in the detective apartment?

You've done all there is to do, feel free to leave the appt. by going back at the entrance and clicking the middle bottom arrow (I believe tooltip says "leave").

Are they talking about the storyteller in the story?

Indeed, they are.

You dont understand, Anna tells the MC that he cant leave for his sister because he could get kidnapped by their enemies and that would be bad for him and for them.

That part of the story has been reverted to resemble v0.1, but with (hopefully) better writing, as has been discussed during previous release at great length. (here's a refresher if needed)

Also, unrelated to the game itself, but you managed to miss the point I'm trying to make several times already. It has been said to you several times already by other people, but I feel like I need to re-iterate that your version of what is happening and what is being talked about may not correspond to what is actually being discussed.

 

[Ayhsel]

Ok lets say we agree to disagree on when would a private investigator or a mercenary group hired to find someone would stop actively searching for that someone.

Now lets go to x and y.

Day 2, MC is looking for books to read instead of trying to search for his sister because its too dangerous to leave the flat. Lets assume he bought the its too dangerous speech and is scared to leave.

Day 3, MC agrees to leave the flat and go, with his sister, to break into an apartment for the sake of someone he has met for 2 days and have kidnapped him. Without even asked what changed that makes today less dangerous than yesterday.

How are not comparable? Both need him to leave the flat for something, and there is less than 24 hours difference.

It is essentially what I told you. The first hours are more important than the following hours. Essentially, the probability of finding someone in a time window of an hour goes down as the hours keep moving. Some claim is the first 48 or 72. I am not a specialist. But the whole point is that that 24 hour difference can make it not comparable.

Besides you are missing a key element. Going after his sister implies going to places she regularly visit. If I was trying to find MC, I would tailor his sister until he shows up. But going to the detectives department is not a place MC visits. Why would there be somebody waiting for him to show up there.

If there was a danger of them being caught, was when sister show up in the house. That was a real danger, the reason why one of the girls was not happy about it. It was also pretty stupid behavior by the sister. But, here is a quick reminder for your next reading. RATIONAL 100% behavior is not usually believable for most characters, specially under stress. People do fuck up. I fucked up a few times since I woke up today only.

Again, I do believe things can be improved and stylized. You are still not right in that your point of view is right. I just explained how your assumptions can be questioned, with, for example, the 48/72 rule.

 

[juan palote]

That's what I need to investigate now. I know that many people absolutely despise free roam, but I also know most don't mind it. I've already asked around some of my Patreons and their opinions were mostly positive and people I've asked understood what I tried to do and were quite fine with that segment.
So, there are a couple of things that I need to figure out now about this segment of the game... For example, you saying "it just took me out of the game as it kind of came out of nowhere" is very important because I thought I made the whole transition quite organic, and that might not be the case.
Anyway, several possible hypothesis are possible when describing with this issue, if we can call it that. It could be the issue of unexpected and sudden switch, as you implied, it could be the lack of investment into story, it could be a case of bad implementation, or it could be simply a matter of taste. Or, of course, all of those things combined.



You've done all there is to do, feel free to leave the appt. by going back at the entrance and clicking the middle bottom arrow (I believe tooltip says "leave").

Indeed, they are.

That part of the story has been reverted to resemble v0.1, but with (hopefully) better writing, as has been discussed during previous release at great length. (here's a refresher if needed)

Also, unrelated to the game itself, but you managed to miss the point I'm trying to make several times already. It has been said to you several times already by other people, but I feel like I need to re-iterate that your version of what is happening and what is being talked about may not correspond to what is actually being discussed.

The change changes nothing. Malady still tells you that you cant leave because its dangerous, both for them and for you, and they are still preventing you from leaving the flat for 2 days and not exactly for your safety.

But suddenly on Day 3 is fine to leave. You go from sitting in an apartment of fear of getting caught to being Rambo the nest day. It makes no sense, again.

And we all know what we are discussing.

About the free roam, it sucks, as all the free roam, but since it was in a small place, it is bearable. It would have still being better without any free roam at all since it doesnt add anything really and has no place in this kind of game really.

The transition was fine, dont worry about that, with the exception of the robe man again jumping out of nowhere for no reason.

 

[Faptime]

I have to assume that all of the very heated discussion about the plot/characterization of this game comes from a place of love, and that everyone who is *strenuously* voicing their (sometimes rudely-toned) opinion wants this game to succeed as much as the rest of us.

Because if such vocal complainers don't care about the game and only care about complaining, I'm sure they'll just delete the game and move in like the socially-adjusted people that they are.

You are not the MC. The MC is a character in a story. The MC could be the smartest man in the room, or he could be a total dunce. Our jobs, as players, is to watch the story unfold and take some pleasure out if it.

Something doesn't make sense to you? Of course you should ask. And when the answer is provided, if you don't like it, if it ruins the game for you, move on to another game.

 

[juan palote]

I have to assume that all of the very heated discussion about the plot/characterization of this game comes from a place of love, and that everyone who is *strenuously* voicing their (sometimes rudely-toned) opinion wants this game to succeed as much as the rest of us.

Because if such vocal complainers don't care about the game and only care about complaining, I'm sure they'll just delete the game and move in like the socially-adjusted people that they are.

You are not the MC. The MC is a character in a story. The MC could be the smartest man in the room, or he could be a total dunce. Our jobs, as players, is to watch the story unfold and take some pleasure out if it.

Something doesn't make sense to you? Of course you should ask. And when the answer is provided, if you don't like it, if it ruins the game for you, move on to another game.

Thats the thing, i dont care if the MC is smart or not, i dont care if he cares about his sister or not either, what he should be is CONSISTENT across the story, which is the problem here.

Several characters, specially the MC but not just him, arent consistent and thats a big issue.

And yes, i want the gamer to succeed, otherwise i would just say that everything is great and that the Dev should continue with the current direction, even when its clearly not great.

I am sorry if you think i am rude, i honestly couldnt care less about it really.

 

[eightypercent]

Really interesting and unique... the characters are great, the story is complex and compelling, the art is high quality and the music works well. Nice one!

 

[Faptime]

Thats the thing, i dont care if the MC is smart or not, i dont care if he cares about his sister or not either, what he should be is CONSISTENT across the story, which is the problem here.

Several characters, specially the MC but not just him, arent consistent and thats a big issue.

And yes, i want the gamer to succeed, otherwise i would just say that everything is great and that the Dev should continue with the current direction, even when its clearly not great.

I am sorry if you think i am rude, i honestly couldnt care less about it really.

You've made your point. Several times, actually. At this point you aren't providing criticism, you're being argumentative. You're constantly posting because you need someone to say "Wow, you're so right! This game makes no sense!"

But most people can shrug their shoulders and move on with the story. It's not perfect, but it's good. What is your endgame here? To just have somebody verbally confirm that you're right? Or did you want the author to go back and rewrite the entire thing to please you? Because neither of those is going to happen. Especially if you seem to take pleasure in being rude about it.

 

[juan palote]

You've made your point. Several times, actually. At this point you aren't providing criticism, you're being argumentative. You're constantly posting because you need someone to say "Wow, you're so right! This game makes no sense!"

But most people can shrug their shoulders and move on with the story. It's not perfect, but it's good. What is your endgame here? To just have somebody verbally confirm that you're right? Or did you want the author to go back and rewrite the entire thing to please you? Because neither of those is going to happen. Especially if you seem to take pleasure in being rude about it.

My goal is for the developer to not keep making the same mistakes, which isnt happening, since each chapter has more character inconsistencies and keeps adding that robed man, both issues that noty only me, but several people criticized.

And to make sure the Dev doesnt make these same mistakes on his next project.

 

[Faptime]

My goal is for the developer to not keep making the same mistakes, which isnt happening, since each chapter has more character inconsistencies and keeps adding that robed man, both issues that noty only me, but several people criticized.

And to make sure the Dev doesnt make these same mistakes on his next project.

Has the Dev heard your criticisms? And responded to them? Then I'd say you've achieved your goal.

 

[juan palote]

Has the Dev heard your criticisms? And responded to them? Then I'd say you've achieved your goal.

I thought i had achieved it, and then the new chapter had the same issues even when he changed the past issues to make them less bad.

I dont think he understood the issues yet

 

[DrDerpington]

as for his fingerprints probably not being in the system... she is a rouge detective who also acts outside the law when she needs to.. so she can always run his fingerprints in the system under some bs reason.. then later compare it to basically anything in any suspects apartment she decides to break into to serve her own agenda..
as for reporting the break in.. she can always claim nothing was stolen.. but she wont, not due to the usb.. but most likely due to that locked door under the staircase..

and yes I watched a lot of crime related shows shows like Dexter and many others..

Thats the problem. You have seen many Hollywood crime shows. Unfortunately reality is often different from what Hollywood shows.

"as for reporting the break in.. she can always claim nothing was stolen.."
She cant do that. If there was something ilegal on USB, then she cant risk some random cop arresting MC and finding her USB. She has to get it herself. Also she has to find Robin Hoods by herself and give them to the mysterious gangster (Mr. Hammer?). Random cop arresting MC and sending him to jail and in front of judge doesnt serve interest of gangsters.

"she can always run his fingerprints in the system under some bs reason"
How is she gonna get his fingerprints?? She doesnt have them. Do you think she can somehow collect his fingerprints from her house? Do you know how many partial fingerprints can you find in your own house? A LOT! Collecting fingerprints from crime scenes is usually done by a CSI team (group of officers). Its not some easy work for a rogue detective.
And even if she somehow miraculously found correct fingerprints in her house, what would be the point? She would search for them in database and find nothing! MC was law abiding citizen and his fingerprints are NOT in any database.

 

[madmate.games]

But suddenly on Day 3 is fine to leave. You go from sitting in an apartment of fear of getting caught to being Rambo the nest day. It makes no sense, again.

I'm certain that the scene with Sarah and Diana along with the discussion between Sarah, MC, Anna and Malady explain all that in detail, but whatever, you know best.


I feel like there is simply no way to reach you, so anything I say will be just wasted breath. So I'll just have to ignore you from now on.

 

[Faptime]

I thought i had achieved it, and then the new chapter had the same issues even when he changed the past issues to make them less bad.

I dont think he understood the issues yet

Oh, the arrogance. Buddy, that means he heard your criticisms, understood your issues, and simply ignored them because he's going to do what he wants with his own game.

 

[juan palote]

I'm certain that the scene with Sarah and Diana along with the discussion between Sarah, MC, Anna and Malady explain all that in detail, but whatever, you know best.


I feel like there is simply no way to reach you, so anything I say will be just wasted breath. So I'll just have to ignore you from now on.

I am not the only one that pointed those issues.

But sure, whatever, if you think nothing is wrong, keep doing the same, its your prerrogative, dont expect different results though

 

[Spawn420]

Thats the problem. You have seen many Hollywood crime shows. Unfortunately reality is often different from what Hollywood shows.

"she can always run his fingerprints in the system under some bs reason"
How is she gonna get his fingerprints?? She doesnt have them. Do you think she can somehow collect his fingerprints from her house? Do you know how many partial fingerprints can you find in your own house? A LOT! Collecting fingerprints from crime scenes is usually done by a CSI team (group of officers). Its not some easy work for a rogue detective.
And even if she somehow miraculously found correct fingerprints in her house, what would be the point? She would search for them in database and find nothing! MC was law abiding citizen and his fingerprints are NOT in any database.

its a simple matter of being professional at what you do... I can only assume even the reckless guys go into a robbery wearing a mask and/or gloves... a group of known thieves should know better then to go without some gloves while doing a burglary job.. its a small cosmetic detail that I'm sure is easy to change but would fit the logic of being a well known group of thieves better...

 

[Ayhsel]

On the comments of fingerprints.

A) Yes, wearing gloves would have been a good idea. Cannot hurt you and it can save your ass.

B) Unlike what some of you are implying, finding suitable fingerprints is not as easy as shown in television. Not all surfaces take a nice print of your finger, even if some are left. A little part of it will most likely not work. More importantly, unless the detective knows for sure that somebody has been in her house right after they left, most valuable fingerprints are going to be destroyed. After all, the very best candidate surface to have caught a nice fingerprint are also the very best candidates to have a new fingerprint printed above.
Moreover, fingerprints are not iris records. They change overtime AND can be erased by burning your hands, with acid for example.

C) Yes, the girls should have advised him but it is implied in this update that they are not the pro thieves most think they are. They are quite amateur themselves, to it is totally reasonable they forgot to tell MC and MC did not realize on his own.
While I personally don't think this is the case, it is totally possible that MC screwing up and getting his fingerprint caught can be done for plot reason. After all you need to remind the novel is just in its third chapter and MC is a total noob about it. I mentioned this in particular, as I am not sure that detective is not aware somebody was in their house. The novel suggested she might have caught Malady spying on her. Maybe she let it happen. So for now, let's wait and see.

 

[micojive]

Did you read the part about BRAIN CONCUSSION??? Do you understand what that means?? The brain has suffered damage! People acting weird is quite common after concussion.

Ah yea, i forgot about the concussions that single out not wanting to go tell the most important person in your life, after you already acknowledge after the fact how important they are to you. Also that concussions make you super fucking horny and make you choose to fuck a stranger, who kidnapped you and is KEEPING you from the most important person in your life, that you have known for less than 1 day.

My mistake.

 

[diego68usa]

After comments and reviews: going to try this game. it seems new and different to me so will give a go. thanks for creating this madmate.games , at the very least its a different time of discussion and arguements then you find in other threads. v/r Diego

 

[tuviejalamugrienta]

Dear Dev:
You should seriously consider cutting down the exposition all across the game. It gets tiresome really fast.
Ex. When the MC gets punched, just fade to black. We don't need a long-winged explanation about the loss of consciousness and such. It breaks the immersion and wanes the player's attention span. Less is more.

Just a thought.