VN Ren'Py Abandoned Robbin' Hoods [0.4.2] [madmate.games]

[Walter Victor]

Any kind of criticism or feedback in general actually! And thank you for your multiple detailed posts written over multiple hours. As someone who comes from a completely different background and is new to the whole "creative" scene, seeing that kind of passion is simply amazing! I feel that, if nothing else, you deserve at least a detailed reply in return.

I completely understand that you might feel like the main character lacks agency. He might seem to be too compliant (trust me, he was even worse before some adjustments in the dialogue) from a perspective of an invested observer. And from that perspective, it's easy to envision ourselves as this flawless hero swooping in to save the day. However, I ask of you to put yourself in his shoes, and the shoes of his accidental compatriots.
He is not a hardened agent of mayhem, capable of incredible feats (not yet, at least). Despite his appearances, he's just a working stiff who cares about his sis. He's still a civilian and he's being assured by the people who appear to be more experienced and competent than him that they can take care of the situation.
I think it's entirely plausible he'd back down and not risk a confrontation with someone who apparently decked 3 guys in 3 seconds (while he has very little brawling experience) and someone who is helping him deal with his issue while having the same expertise needed to deal with said issue (which he himself, again, lacks).

This at least makes sense to me, but feel free to point out if you disagree with my reasoning.



I'm new and inexperienced at rendering, using my PC for many different things, and this update had 570 renders, which is ~200 renders per month (almost 3 months of development time). I think I'm doing decently enough for an interesting hobby pursued with limited resources, but feel free to disagree. (re-reading this, it might seem I sound condescending, but I assure you that is not my intention!)



First, dully noted! I get that it's a mixed bag, and not in everybody's taste so I'll keep that in mind for future releases! Btw, he was already toned down in the second chapter, I'm guessing that wasn't enough?

Second, MC will get to do something in the third episode. He might even get to do someone, but seeing how you'd like to avoid banging criminals in the most corrupted city in existence, I am not sure you'll be satisfied with your options.
Also, I feel like I should point out that this game plays out more like a classic novel than a visual novel, meaning that MC is undoubtedly the main character, but he's not the sole focus, there are multiple point of view characters.


MC will get off his but in next chapter! Forgive him, for he had to get accustomed to his new situation. As you said so yourself, it's still prologue, so please give him time to sew his cape before asking him to start saving people from burning buildings.


They are. Alternatively, you could play without a patch. I think that, for now at least, the story makes as much sense, but feel free to share your disagreements if you have any.


I'll look into it! Thanks for pointing it out.


A question for everyone who can't play a game unless it has only one protagonist:
I'll implement in the next release an option to skip Sarah's choices whenever they come up. Would that be a satisfying resolution to your issue? Let me know.

Please create the game that pleases YOU. Of course constructive criticism should be considered, but ultimately, it is your game; your ideas; your 'baby'. I assume you know where you want to take this game. Don't let anyone dissuade you from that. If you see someone's idea that appeals to you, by all means implement it. But consider that any change that you make to satisfy one group of players is likely to piss off another group. And if you have reservations about a change, consider that if you don't like what you are doing, and enjoy doing it, the game will surely fail.

 

[HardrivenRC]

Euhm, where does the incest patch go?

 

[chrisccd]

Nice renders and good story.

 

[juan palote]

However, I ask of you to put yourself in his shoes, and the shoes of his accidental compatriots.
He is not a hardened agent of mayhem, capable of incredible feats (not yet, at least). Despite his appearances, he's just a working stiff who cares about his sis. He's still a civilian and he's being assured by the people who appear to be more experienced and competent than him that they can take care of the situation.
I think it's entirely plausible he'd back down and not risk a confrontation with someone who apparently decked 3 guys in 3 seconds (while he has very little brawling experience) and someone who is helping him deal with his issue while having the same expertise needed to deal with said issue (which he himself, again, lacks).

This at least makes sense to me, but feel free to point out if you disagree with my reasoning.

Oh i do put myself in his shoes, and if it were myself in this situation, the LAST thing i would do would be do nothing and sleep peacefully.

I would have a much similar reaction to the on of hi LITTLE SISTER, which is moving mountains to find his brother, while also being a civilian.

There is zero chance that any brother that really cares about his sister would just sit iddle doing nothing. He didnt even try, his actions shows that he doesnt care at all about his sister, and i cant understand how you dont see it.

The MC you have written is just a stupid asshole that in two chapters all that has done was buying groceries and getting knocked out and had no care about what is happening to the one that he supposedly loves (hint, he doesnt, actions show love more than words).

In contrast, Sarah does love him.

That is the point, in the same game you have the actions of a sibling that loves, and one that doesnt care about. And the MC doesnt care at all about his sister from his actions. Nothing

Would you really stay without doing ANYTHING if your sister is alone in , what you called it? "the most corrupted city in existence", while she doesnt know where you are after you just went buying groceries? Is that what you think would be your reactions? Sleep and look at books?

A question for everyone who can't play a game unless it has only one protagonist:
I'll implement in the next release an option to skip Sarah's choices whenever they come up. Would that be a satisfying resolution to your issue? Let me know.

I dont like multiple prots, but so far Sarah is the protagonist of the game. What you need to do is one option to hide the black robe stupid scenes, that would be one option i would use

Sarah is the one that is saving this game

 

[hazzi]

Euhm, where does the incest patch go?

game folder

 

[SpikeZg]

I love the blonde, Malady right?
She's nice

 

[Sheppard3rd]

I dont like multiple prots, but so far Sarah is the protagonist of the game. What you need to do is one option to hide the black robe stupid scenes, that would be one option i would use

Sarah is the one that is saving this game

You totally right there was no choice to go back to Sarah.. And he wanted back so bad that one sentence and he never said anything again.. You'r game is flawed fromt the allay scene or rather when you wake up and you dont have a choice.. after that what you do is pointless and not relevant. the sister is looking for you on her birthday can you make it even worse? I'ts al nice and well that they get togheter in the end of the chapter but you lost a chapter on a corrupt cop and some useless search what in the first chapter almost looked impossible.
And the big NO NO in dealing with sisters YOU NEVER LEAVE THEM ALONE IF YOU THINK THEY ARE IN DANGER SO EASY. yes needed in caps.

Ok some good points the first part of the game was good you can back down on the storyteller part, Renders are good some new ones i never saw so thats good. The setting is new and thats a welcome suprise.

So i gonna wait for a couple of more updates for my finale verdict i hope you can redeem some of your 'poor' choices

 

[MrFriendly]

I completely understand that you might feel like the main character lacks agency. He might seem to be too compliant (trust me, he was even worse before some adjustments in the dialogue) from a perspective of an invested observer. And from that perspective, it's easy to envision ourselves as this flawless hero swooping in to save the day. However, I ask of you to put yourself in his shoes, and the shoes of his accidental compatriots.
He is not a hardened agent of mayhem, capable of incredible feats (not yet, at least). Despite his appearances, he's just a working stiff who cares about his sis. He's still a civilian and he's being assured by the people who appear to be more experienced and competent than him that they can take care of the situation.
I think it's entirely plausible he'd back down and not risk a confrontation with someone who apparently decked 3 guys in 3 seconds (while he has very little brawling experience) and someone who is helping him deal with his issue while having the same expertise needed to deal with said issue (which he himself, again, lacks).

To me the MC backed down too easily. If it was my sister/best friend I would be trying to escape (maybe try to leave at night when they are asleep) so I could go find her and tell her I am safe and to verify that she is safe as well. IMO they would have to restrain me to keep me there, I wouldn't be flirting with them nor sleeping comfortably. In the end my actions would have made them find and bring my sister/best friend to me.

Second, MC will get to do something in the third episode. He might even get to do someone, but seeing how you'd like to avoid banging criminals in the most corrupted city in existence, I am not sure you'll be satisfied with your options.
Also, I feel like I should point out that this game plays out more like a classic novel than a visual novel, meaning that MC is undoubtedly the main character, but he's not the sole focus, there are multiple point of view characters.

The MC doesn't have to "do" anything to not be considered a passive character. He could be arguing with his captors, having an inner monologue as he tries to figure out how to get out of the house, etc. He doesn't know these people and is far too trusting of them. They conveniently grabbed him but not his phone or wallet (how did those fall out?) when he was brought to the house.
Also I'm avoiding banging criminals who kidnap me and keep me against my will. Not a big fan of the whole Stockholm Syndrome/bang your captors idea. I am fine with a slow burn story and prefer it but I don't like main characters who don't do anything besides sit in a house and compliment the delicious food that his captor is feeding him.

MC will get off his but in next chapter! Forgive him, for he had to get accustomed to his new situation. As you said so yourself, it's still prologue, so please give him time to sew his cape before asking him to start saving people from burning buildings.

A question for everyone who can't play a game unless it has only one protagonist:
I'll implement in the next release an option to skip Sarah's choices whenever they come up. Would that be a satisfying resolution to your issue? Let me know.

As I said before the MC doesn't have to be saving people, he needs to be trying to save people - arguing with his captors, trying to find a computer he can access, etc.

Oh i do put myself in his shoes, and if it were myself in this situation, the LAST thing i would do would be do nothing and sleep peacefully.

I would have a much similar reaction to the on of hi LITTLE SISTER, which is moving mountains to find his brother, while also being a civilian.

There is zero chance that any brother that really cares about his sister would just sit iddle doing nothing. He didnt even try, his actions shows that he doesnt care at all about his sister, and i cant understand how you dont see it.

The MC you have written is just a stupid asshole that in two chapters all that has done was buying groceries and getting knocked out and had no care about what is happening to the one that he supposedly loves (hint, he doesnt, actions show love more than words).

In contrast, Sarah does love him.

That is the point, in the same game you have the actions of a sibling that loves, and one that doesnt care about. And the MC doesnt care at all about his sister from his actions. Nothing

Would you really stay without doing ANYTHING if your sister is alone in , what you called it? "the most corrupted city in existence", while she doesnt know where you are after you just went buying groceries? Is that what you think would be your reactions? Sleep and look at books?

I dont like multiple prots, but so far Sarah is the protagonist of the game. What you need to do is one option to hide the black robe stupid scenes, that would be one option i would use

Sarah is the one that is saving this game

I agree wholeheartedly. I would be in a panic about my sister, my wallet, my phone, my job, my severe lack of money. I wouldn't care if my captors were "nice", were "sexy" women (one of which acts like she fucks everything she sees), were the modern equivalent of Al Capone or Robin Hood. I'd want to get my sister safe and us out of that situation.

At this point Sarah is the protagonist with the most agency and who cares the most about her brother and their situation.

A few other points:

1) If Sarah truly loves and cares for her brother the fact that she then seems to dismiss his opinion of Miss Blackwood is out of character. She seems like she would care more what her brother thinks and reevaluate her encounter with his employer. Miss Blackwood was very handsy (if it was a man Sarah would have been very upset) and her brother thinks she is creepy, enough reason to stay away from her.

2) If they are so desperate for money that they sleep in a bunk bed, and have very little food, it is odd that they hire a maid/cleaning woman to come in and clean the apartment. Perhaps in other countries that is normal? I don't know. In my experience growing up in the US only the rich have cleaning services.

3) I am fine with multiple protagonists to tell a narrative, in fact I would suggest that you follow different people as they leave the house to go out and do things. So when Anna goes to try and find Isabella it would be interesting to see what happens (if it forwards the plot along). Having multiple protagonists would alleviate the feeling that the MC is just sitting at his captor's house flirting with them.

And I have to add that this is all meant to be helpful observations and criticisms. It is your story and game, I am not doing jack or shit to make this happen so take or leave anything that I post on here. Typing an annoying post about someone else's hard work is the easiest fucking thing I can do (the bonus is it helps me avoid actual work too). I would point out that an involved discussion of a game is sometimes a good indicator of interest in it. Not always but often. Finally, I stand by my original thought which is that the black robed guy doesn't work and, I imagine, takes you away from rendering other scenes. I'd happily exchange scenes with him for a scene with Anna talking to her contacts and trying to locate Isabella.

 

[TundraLupus]

No need to sugarcoat it, feel free to be as blunt (or mean) as you wish, I don't mind, trully!
Straight away, I'll admit there are definitely some flaws in the design of the robed man. One of the main reasons I kept him around was for some cheap and easy ways to add exposition and humor... well, that and the part he has to play in the story... There is a decent possibility that he might get some changes in the future releases because I too feel like he's the weakest character.
Oh, and without going into details he's not supposed to be MC's eventual character. I probably should've telegraphed that much better.

I was gonna drop the game, but now i'm glad to have looked for this, i couldn't get past robe guy, because of him beying supposed future MC, but now i'll at least keep this game on my whatch list, and if he does get changed might play it again, but just so it ins't only a sour note, the renders are great, for real, for a first game you are doing well.

 

[eddie987]

To me the MC backed down too easily. If it was my sister/best friend I would be trying to escape (maybe try to leave at night when they are asleep) so I could go find her and tell her I am safe and to verify that she is safe as well. IMO they would have to restrain me to keep me there, I wouldn't be flirting with them nor sleeping comfortably. In the end my actions would have made them find and bring my sister/best friend to me.



The MC doesn't have to "do" anything to not be considered a passive character. He could be arguing with his captors, having an inner monologue as he tries to figure out how to get out of the house, etc. He doesn't know these people and is far too trusting of them. They conveniently grabbed him but not his phone or wallet (how did those fall out?) when he was brought to the house.
Also I'm avoiding banging criminals who kidnap me and keep me against my will. Not a big fan of the whole Stockholm Syndrome/bang your captors idea. I am fine with a slow burn story and prefer it but I don't like main characters who don't do anything besides sit in a house and compliment the delicious food that his captor is feeding him.



As I said before the MC doesn't have to be saving people, he needs to be trying to save people - arguing with his captors, trying to find a computer he can access, etc.




I agree wholeheartedly. I would be in a panic about my sister, my wallet, my phone, my job, my severe lack of money. I wouldn't care if my captors were "nice", were "sexy" women (one of which acts like she fucks everything she sees), were the modern equivalent of Al Capone or Robin Hood. I'd want to get my sister safe and us out of that situation.

At this point Sarah is the protagonist with the most agency and who cares the most about her brother and their situation.

A few other points:

1) If Sarah truly loves and cares for her brother the fact that she then seems to dismiss his opinion of Miss Blackwood is out of character. She seems like she would care more what her brother thinks and reevaluate her encounter with his employer. Miss Blackwood was very handsy (if it was a man Sarah would have been very upset) and her brother thinks she is creepy, enough reason to stay away from her.

2) If they are so desperate for money that they sleep in a bunk bed, and have very little food, it is odd that they hire a maid/cleaning woman to come in and clean the apartment. Perhaps in other countries that is normal? I don't know. In my experience growing up in the US only the rich have cleaning services.

3) I am fine with multiple protagonists to tell a narrative, in fact I would suggest that you follow different people as they leave the house to go out and do things. So when Anna goes to try and find Isabella it would be interesting to see what happens (if it forwards the plot along). Having multiple protagonists would alleviate the feeling that the MC is just sitting at his captor's house flirting with them.

And I have to add that this is all meant to be helpful observations and criticisms. It is your story and game, I am not doing jack or shit to make this happen so take or leave anything that I post on here. Typing an annoying post about someone else's hard work is the easiest fucking thing I can do (the bonus is it helps me avoid actual work too). I would point out that an involved discussion of a game is sometimes a good indicator of interest in it. Not always but often. Finally, I stand by my original thought which is that the black robed guy doesn't work and, I imagine, takes you away from rendering other scenes. I'd happily exchange scenes with him for a scene with Anna talking to her contacts and trying to locate Isabella.

I agree with everything except the multiple protagonists, but that's just personal preference. The MC gave up way too easy. I mean, I get that if he tries to escape he might get beaten up. So? For all he knows the guys from the alley might abduct Sarah and do God knows what to her, in order to find him! Isn't that enough of an incentive for him to actually do something? He went out of his way to help some random chick in the streets, but he won't do anything to make sure the person he cares about more than anything in this world is safe???

 

[madmate.games]

Please create the game that pleases YOU. Of course constructive criticism should be considered, but ultimately, it is your game; your ideas; your 'baby'. I assume you know where you want to take this game. Don't let anyone dissuade you from that. If you see someone's idea that appeals to you, by all means implement it. But consider that any change that you make to satisfy one group of players is likely to piss off another group. And if you have reservations about a change, consider that if you don't like what you are doing, and enjoy doing it, the game will surely fail.

Yeap, that's a great reminder for anyone who is in creative business. Can't even cut the quote, it's all so relevant and serves as something one should always consider.
While I do have a story in mind, nothing is perfect and I would be first to admit my story has flaws. That's why I'm so insistent on gathering as much feedback, no matter what it is, because it would help me paint a clearer picture and realize what the issue is and if it's possible to do something about it.
This is why, for example, I'm implementing the option to skip Sarah choices in the future. It takes away nothing from the story while allowing people who have that particular problem to still enjoy the game. Maybe I'm just trying to cater to people outside of my focus group, but it doesn't take anything away from the game so why not try it.

You totally right there was no choice to go back to Sarah.. And he wanted back so bad that one sentence and he never said anything again..

Would it make more sense if Anna never broached the subject in the first place? Would it feel better if MC was more emotional and Anna more verbose? What if she went through all the possible scenarios so he'd see more clearly?

 

[SecretDesire]

Story teller and Peanut Gallery part kinda boring i nearly skipped all scenes and is there a kinda Harem path for this game because that Malady lady is totally Bi and trying to get Anna in a threesome and if i don't get it wrong we have a shot with sister in late game too so i play as a 2 save , 1 for Malady , 1 for Anna and if you have a sex with Malady and after that chose help from Anna and trying to make a move on Anna she kinda said "you with Malady i don't wanna do anything with you" kinda thing and reject MC so Harem path kinda seems unavailable at this point.
And you trying to make some scene for M/F/F action or F/F action in game and i hope it's avoidable.
Other then that game is good but MC's facial expressions kinda weird and ridiculous in this update.

 

[madmate.games]

To me the MC backed down too easily. If it was my sister/best friend I would be trying to escape (maybe try to leave at night when they are asleep) so I could go find her and tell her I am safe and to verify that she is safe as well. IMO they would have to restrain me to keep me there, I wouldn't be flirting with them nor sleeping comfortably. In the end my actions would have made them find and bring my sister/best friend to me.

Could you answer the same three questions I asked Shepard?

Didn't his actions make them find Sarah? With Malady leaving as soon as there was a possible threat, checking out the scene and sitting on the apartment entire day and then repeating the process the next day?

And I have to add that this is all meant to be helpful observations and criticisms.

And I'm very thankful for that, truly.

 

[madmate.games]

And you trying to make some scene for M/F/F action or F/F action in game and i hope it's avoidable.
Other then that game is good but MC's facial expressions kinda weird and ridiculous in this update.

All sex scenes or couplings are completely consensual and telegraphed (to a reasonable degree).
Dully noted!

 

[SecretDesire]

All sex scenes or couplings are completely consensual and telegraphed (to a reasonable degree).
Dully noted!

Don't get me wrong i realy like Malady but she's character is a bit off she trying to make a move everything can move and definitely trying to get Anna in a threesome if i don't get it wrong so that brings some questions like can we have Malady for ourselves but not a threesome or foursome just her because she is not seems like a stable for one person person but your thinking and renders are realy good worth for waiting 2 or 3 month for updates.
Anna is more seems like a stable for one person kinda girl but Malady is so wild in comparison with Anna

 

[eddie987]

Didn't his actions make them find Sarah? With Malady leaving as soon as there was a possible threat, checking out the scene and sitting on the apartment entire day and then repeating the process the next day?

What you're missing is that since Malady was there all day and didn't see Sarah, that should have made the MC even more worried! Where was she? How can he know she's safe? Also there's a night in between... If they were to kidnap her, would they do it in broad daylight or when noone can see them?

 

[MrFriendly]

Would it make more sense if Anna never broached the subject in the first place? Would it feel better if MC was more emotional and Anna more verbose? What if she went through all the possible scenarios so he'd see more clearly?

I would error toward more conversation rather than less, also more inner monologue of the MC, and yes he should be emotional/even angry about the situation. He should be telling them that he doesn't give a fuck about them and their safety when his sister is out there somewhere unaware of what has happened to him. I don't believe that most people would act rationally in that situation. Even if she enumerates all of the scenarios it would be nice to be given the option to try to escape (fail) and then be tied to a chair or something like that. I just feel that the MC is too willing to sit around and flirt with his captors when his one family member has no idea what happened to him. He should be thinking of how he would react if his sister went missing, putting himself in Sarah's shoes and then trying to at least help Malady in figuring out where to find her.

Could you answer the same three questions I asked Shepard?

Didn't his actions make them find Sarah? With Malady leaving as soon as there was a possible threat, checking out the scene and sitting on the apartment entire day and then repeating the process the next day?

And I'm very thankful for that, truly.

I don't feel that his actions made them find Sarah, more that Malady did what she decided she was going to do in the first place and it worked. Even if his raging at them is ineffective it doesn't mean he wouldn't rage about the situation and the danger his sister may be in.

I like the fact that I can decline to flirt with my captors, I just feel like he should be less trusting of them overall. Less willing to hold conversations and be such an active participant in his captivity. They put him in his current situation after all. Anna could have driven him to a hospital and just dropped him off. Happens a lot more than people realize. He could have died of brain swelling due to the head trauma and they decided it was more important to protect Anna's identity than to keep him alive.

Anyway, I know I sound too overly critical and I don't want you to think that I am not a fan. Overall I will keep playing the game even if I am rolling my eyes at how the MC is sitting on his butt getting fat on Anna's cooking. Just tone down the Black robed guy and the peanut gallery please

 

[Sheppard3rd]

Yeap, that's a great reminder for anyone who is in creative business. Can't even cut the quote, it's all so relevant and serves as something one should always consider.
While I do have a story in mind, nothing is perfect and I would be first to admit my story has flaws. That's why I'm so insistent on gathering as much feedback, no matter what it is, because it would help me paint a clearer picture and realize what the issue is and if it's possible to do something about it.
This is why, for example, I'm implementing the option to skip Sarah choices in the future. It takes away nothing from the story while allowing people who have that particular problem to still enjoy the game. Maybe I'm just trying to cater to people outside of my focus group, but it doesn't take anything away from the game so why not try it.



Would it make more sense if Anna never broached the subject in the first place? Would it feel better if MC was more emotional and Anna more verbose? What if she went through all the possible scenarios so he'd see more clearly?

Personally no explanation she can give me a reason to stay away from my sister so i dont let her, I'ts my sister so i gonna go to her.. Because why should she trust Malady ? her brother is gone she can have done it and now is after her.. if you catch my drift

 

[juan palote]

Personally no explanation she can give me a reason to stay away from my sister so i dont let her, I'ts my sister so i gonna go to her.. Because why should she trust Malady ? her brother is gone she can have done it and now is after her.. if you catch my drift

This.

The asshole of the MC sits iddle, doing nothing and sleeping peacefully when his little sister is left alone, in a corrupted city, with close to no money, and his brother going missing.

There is no way in hell that any brother with any empathy at all and even the slightliest care about her sister would do that. Let alone sleep with one captor.

Why would he trust any of them? He is being kidnapped after all, and he trusts his little sister safety to them? Fuck them, i will leave that place as soon as i have a chance, nbreak a window at night, break the door, whatever, as long as i am free i am not staying there, let alone be friendly, eating/joking/fucking them.

And seriously, get rid of the storyteller, its really, really hurting your game and you dont seem to understand how much its hurting it.

I am pretty sure many people closed your game in the first minutes of gameplay and will never touch it again because of that stupid introduction, and every appearence after that (middle of the fight, tv in Diana's appartment, etc) were just as bad as the introduction.

 

[Mpkstroff]

A question for everyone who can't play a game unless it has only one protagonist:
I'll implement in the next release an option to skip Sarah's choices whenever they come up. Would that be a satisfying resolution to your issue? Let me know.

Honestly, the discussion between Sara and Diana was the most fun/interactive in the game (to me). We see her all the time being active and now making choises. To me she feels more like the MC of the game that the dude who is still doing nothing. I think no one have a problem with her to the point to skip her choises. If you ask me what thing I skip, I skip the intro (robed man) and some GoT related scene.