Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[HentaiGamerN00b]

It would be selfish of Rowan and absolutely as far from heroic as he could be, but to me it doesn't sound impossible that a bargain could be struck where he will help the Twins conquer the world as long as he is allowed to have his own "little private piece of heaven".

It is possible but, think as the twins... Why would they do that?. Think about slavery... Why a master must grant something to a person that is in a literal sense their property?. The slave itself must be grateful of not being treated as a whore, punished or killed by the masters opinion of how the slave is doing the work.

My point is that this would be more of an alternative branch of the "Submissive Rowan" route, where he is obedient and loyal to the Twins, but instead of it being about he getting dommed by them and corrupted into being a masochist that enjoys being abused and humiliated by the Twins, we reach a state where while he will never see the world the way the Twins see it, he also doesn't find it worthwhile to plot for their downfall (too much personal risk), so instead, as long as they can assure him that he will be allowed to have a comfortable life where he and his loved ones will be left in peace without being harassed for not vibing with the whole chaos lifestyle, then he will work for them without a hidden agenda.

The twins can said to him that, but still... They are The Masters and Rowan just a slave at the end of the day, this bring to me memories about the Bible, do you know about Joseph?... They guy who was sell as a slave by his brothers and then was bought in Egypt, there his Master recognize his skills because he was very educated and could do administrative work for good, but his wife wanted other kind of services from him... And even when it was proved that he didn't do anything wrong to his Master he was put in jail anyway... That's the life of a slave. The twins have his life and of his wife in their hands... And besides that, the lives of many innocents villagers of all the towns conquered or under their protection; not only that, the twins state to him that if he cannot achieve the high bar they put to him to accomplish in a mission, they'll do what they pleased as in Rastedel... Those are motivation enough to be submissive or be rebellious... It's up to that player choice.

While I think the more nuanced discussion of the merits of "order" and "chaos" without dumbing it down to valuative terms like "good" or "evil" is interesting from a theoretical aspect, I think that as of how it applies to the SoC world there is not much room for ambivalence.

It would be interesting to delve into how the philosophy of "Chaos" works in the SoC world, like you said, it seems that it attracts people that are simply looking to fulfill their baser desires, but I wonder if that isn't also part of the philosophy of chaos, I wonder if they consider baser desires to be the ones that are most true to oneself and denying those in favor of "moral satisfaction" goes against the logic of "might makes right", because you are essentially surrendering your true self to the rule of a moral order.

I believe that depends in how it is focused... There is not much to opt, i mean, an static order as could be the Feudalism sucks a lot, specially if the rulers commit the most retarded decisions they have the right of it just because they have the luck to be born in the right place at the right time... While Might Makes Right oriented to Chaos can do more interesting things because the attractiveness is the Freedom it have to the follower, someone as enslaved as Rowan is could appreciate this, in fact, he does when talking to his wife he hopes for the twins doing it right, for Rowan that philosophy is overextended beyond the use of brutal force, and Rowan in-game demonstrate it when a mercenary wanted to go home in a village with problems to raised productivity. The man said he was a farmer and knows well how to make to produce the land because it's familiar with it and with the knowledge to do it, but an orc state the man is greedy because by the rules of conquest he was the first in put a foot there so the village is now his property.

Rowan can make a decision, to favor the orc or the mercenary, if he choose the orc Might Makes Right, the orc and the mercenary battles for the village, but after a brief time the orc strength surpass the mercenary and Rowan said to the orc to be sure the village productivity must raise. In the other option the man leaves to the village with the promise to achieve the rise of productivity, the orc complains but Rowan said if he indeed violate his rights as a conquer then Might Makes Right, he can opt to the twins because they put Rowan in that place of Power or he can deal with Rowan personally, is up to the orc, the orc shits and learn. So Rowan in this example of Might Makes Right he have the freedom to goes by Force or by Meritocracy, because if the orc couldn't accomplish to maintain or rise the productivity, then he's not qualified to get shit done, so, at the end, we can assume the village could get in a better state thanks to Rowan decision to put a person that came from it and knows well the land and was a farmer before mercenary, plus the village now is more loyal to the twins... Now think how the orc could achieve that, he could only order by menacing them, the orcs in the entire game only steals what they need so, in that village the orc just rule by fear until they get dead by exhaustive work or something worse (like famine or sickness like covid or something like that).

Another example of Might Makes Right is every time the game put the player in the opt to conquer or trade a village, we can perfectly burn, stole , rape, enslave the men to the mines, enslave the women to be breed by creatures in the breeding pits, their kids enslave in the castle as servants to be corrupted and the babies to serve as food for the beast in the castle. But don't, we can perfectly trade with them... There is nothing more chaotic than The Market itself when isn't regulated, but still the more free is The Market the more wealth for everyone in society, pretty curiously for the believers in The Order, as i state before, The Chaos have it's own Order by harmonization of the entities in it, and by Might Makes Right we always have the choice at hand, We Can one thing or another.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

While I think the more nuanced discussion of the merits of "order" and "chaos" without dumbing it down to valuative terms like "good" or "evil" is interesting from a theoretical aspect, I think that as of how it applies to the SoC world there is not much room for ambivalence.

It would be interesting to delve into how the philosophy of "Chaos" works in the SoC world, like you said, it seems that it attracts people that are simply looking to fulfill their baser desires, but I wonder if that isn't also part of the philosophy of chaos, I wonder if they consider baser desires to be the ones that are most true to oneself and denying those in favor of "moral satisfaction" goes against the logic of "might makes right", because you are essentially surrendering your true self to the rule of a moral order.

Spoiler: rather long rant about chaos and order

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I do think there is room for nuanced discussion about the nature of chaos in SoC. While Andras and the orcs embrace the most obvious implication of their might-makes-right philosophy, that of violence, other beings of chaos implement it in different way that could more accurately be called something like skill-makes-right or competence-makes-right.

Look at Cla-min and her troop for example. I would hardly call them evil, opportunistic and self-interested for sure, but not capital "E" evil by any means. Cla-min's father used to run the troop, bust she didn't dispose him or anything, he is still part of the troop. But when she grew to be a more competent con-artist merchant that him, he stepped aside and let her take the lead instead. If another member want to take the lead they can't just kill her for the position they have to prove they are a better merchant than she is. In addition Cla-min doesn't just look out for her own good, but the good of her whole family.

The cubi are another example. While they are not opposed to using violence, cleverness and sexual prowess seem to be much more important for determining their pecking order. X'zaratl isn't on top because she could kill the other cubi (though she probably could) but because no of them could out scheme her. During the murder mystery event the cubi express a belief that X'zaratl already knows who did it because they are all certain that she is that much better than they are.

While choas dos also inherently also have a sort of or order with in it's might makes right philosofy I think the way it differeniates from order is how accepting the populace is of serving under less competent leaders and how accepting they are of a change in leadership. Look at Rasteal, the baron is grossly incompetent as a leader, yet the the orchestrators of the coup all agree that they need to take the Baron alive because they still need him to obstinately be the leader of the country. Then when he dies they are proven right as riots start breaking out almost immediately.

Compare this to chaotic sotieties, where leadership is expected to change as frequently as it is able to. EVery chaotic subject want to be the leader, because as the great late Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king." It is rare for an orc chief to live as old as Ulcro because anytime one an orc thinks they have a decent shot at beating their chief in a fight they will challenge them. Eventually someone will be better, or just get lucky and win their fight and BOOM they are the new chief at least until someone else comes along to beat them. Andras, has of course, disrupted this normal system as he is so far beyond any orc that no single orc has any hope of disposing him. But I'm sure everyone of them wishes they could. Just as I'm sure that All of Cla-mins troop dream of one day replacing her, and all of X'zaratl's cubi dream of taking her position as well.

 

[popple]

hi,
i have a problem when i try to launch the game...
some help would be appreciated !

 

[manscout]

It is possible but, think as the twins... Why would they do that?. Think about slavery... Why a master must grant something to a person that is in a literal sense their property?. The slave itself must be grateful of not being treated as a whore, punished or killed by the masters opinion of how the slave is doing the work.

The twins can said to him that, but still... They are The Masters and Rowan just a slave at the end of the day, this bring to me memories about the Bible, do you know about Joseph?... They guy who was sell as a slave by his brothers and then was bought in Egypt, there his Master recognize his skills because he was very educated and could do administrative work for good, but his wife wanted other kind of services from him... And even when it was proved that he didn't do anything wrong to his Master he was put in jail anyway... That's the life of a slave. The twins have his life and of his wife in their hands... And besides that, the lives of many innocents villagers of all the towns conquered or under their protection; not only that, the twins state to him that if he cannot achieve the high bar they put to him to accomplish in a mission, they'll do what they pleased as in Rastedel... Those are motivation enough to be submissive or be rebellious... It's up to that player choice.

Rowan was not raised as a slave and for all we know it is not a common institution in Solansia's order. Rowan is serving the twins under duress and has no reason to be loyal or greateful to them at first, yet the Twins need him in a position of power (direct control of a lot of personel and their operations) so obviously they need to be worried about him instead of just assuming they are untouchable. Rowan is not accepting of his role as "property" unless the Twins succeed in "breaking" him, if they realize that they can't do that but they still need him commanding most of their operations, they'd have to be massive idiots to think pointlessly provoking him won't result in a painful betrayal, when they could instead be trying to tempt him into accepting his fate as their servant for reasons other than direct seduction or corruption, such as offering him a comfortable life without them trying to molest his wife and torture every person he cares about every other week. On the whole they would still do their whims and commit general atrocities when they feel like it, but be willing to allow Rowan to safeguard a few things dear to him.

I do think there is room for nuanced discussion about the nature of chaos in SoC. While Andras and the orcs embrace the most obvious implication of their might-makes-right philosophy, that of violence, other beings of chaos implement it in different way that could more accurately be called something like skill-makes-right or competence-makes-right.

Look at Cla-min and her troop for example. I would hardly call them evil, opportunistic and self-interested for sure, but not capital "E" evil by any means. Cla-min's father used to run the troop, bust she didn't dispose him or anything, he is still part of the troop. But when she grew to be a more competent con-artist merchant that him, he stepped aside and let her take the lead instead. If another member want to take the lead they can't just kill her for the position they have to prove they are a better merchant than she is. In addition Cla-min doesn't just look out for her own good, but the good of her whole family.

The cubi are another example. While they are not opposed to using violence, cleverness and sexual prowess seem to be much more important for determining their pecking order. X'zaratl isn't on top because she could kill the other cubi (though she probably could) but because no of them could out scheme her. During the murder mystery event the cubi express a belief that X'zaratl already knows who did it because they are all certain that she is that much better than they are.

While choas dos also inherently also have a sort of or order with in it's might makes right philosofy I think the way it differeniates from order is how accepting the populace is of serving under less competent leaders and how accepting they are of a change in leadership. Look at Rasteal, the baron is grossly incompetent as a leader, yet the the orchestrators of the coup all agree that they need to take the Baron alive because they still need him to obstinately be the leader of the country. Then when he dies they are proven right as riots start breaking out almost immediately.

Compare this to chaotic sotieties, where leadership is expected to change as frequently as it is able to. EVery chaotic subject want to be the leader, because as the great late Mel Brooks said, "It's good to be the king." It is rare for an orc chief to live as old as Ulcro because anytime one an orc thinks they have a decent shot at beating their chief in a fight they will challenge them. Eventually someone will be better, or just get lucky and win their fight and BOOM they are the new chief at least until someone else comes along to beat them. Andras, has of course, disrupted this normal system as he is so far beyond any orc that no single orc has any hope of disposing him. But I'm sure everyone of them wishes they could. Just as I'm sure that All of Cla-mins troop dream of one day replacing her, and all of X'zaratl's cubi dream of taking her position as well.

With the argument of meritocracy, I think this gets addressed at some point in the game but the issue with Might Makes Right is that there is no obligation for "fair play", because true Might Makes Right is simply who can enforce their leadership. Certain specialized groups can create their own codes of conduct to try to keep things relatively fair and test people on the skills they actually value for the roles of leadership, but if you ideologically follow Chaos then you don't get to complain if someone decides to simply assassinate their competition and fraud their way into being the leader, of course you have the prerogative to retaliate in whatever way you see fit since Might Makes Right and all that, but it is easy to see how inherently destructive such a system can quickly become, and realistically the people being chosen as "the best" should hardly be there for the skills you actually wanted out of them as much as simply for their skills at undermining their competition.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Rowan was not raised as a slave and for all we know it is not a common institution in Solansia's order. Rowan is serving the twins under duress and has no reason to be loyal or greateful to them at first, yet the Twins need him in a position of power (direct control of a lot of personel and their operations) so obviously they need to be worried about him instead of just assuming they are untouchable. Rowan is not accepting of his role as "property" unless the Twins succeed in "breaking" him, if they realize that they can't do that but they still need him commanding most of their operations, they'd have to be massive idiots to think pointlessly provoking him won't result in a painful betrayal, when they could instead be trying to tempt him into accepting his fate as their servant for reasons other than direct seduction or corruption, such as offering him a comfortable life without them trying to molest his wife and torture every person he cares about every other week. On the whole they would still do their whims and commit general atrocities when they feel like it, but be willing to allow Rowan to safeguard a few things dear to him.

Pal as many of the people through history that ends enslave, Rowan can and must be considered as a slave, isn't something his condition to be grateful or not seriously is a metaphor, because he and his wife could have been a worse treatment, the reason for keeping him in a position at the Castle is not only because he's valuable, is for torture him because of him the world he knows and the people he protected will be one way or another under the Twins rule, everything for was he had fought for is now been corrupted or under a rule that he never stood for. Nonetheless it doesn't mean that Rowan as many people who was enslave end accepting the fact that he's property, but in the practice he's like one, Rastedel confirms that when he explained all the situation and by reasonably it could be, for the twins don't care, he must obey, he must reach the high bar, it was explained in every town were Andras lead a conquest and make him choose to kill or not an ancient man, if he obeys or not there are always consequences in which Rowan will be directly or not implicated on it. What happen if Rowan do not achieve requirements on days 22 and 60?, Game Over as simply as that.

As many people in a power position, they all subsequently watched over their actions, as when Rowan try to figure it out the pendant on him and then he was warned about the consequences of that, and there can be assume that in certain actions by Rowan can be taken too comforting in his position of Power in the Castle or by trying to be rebellious, the twins at certain way are informed, not only as Andras example, when Jezera ask to Rowan to accompany her to visit a potential ally, she demonstrate who's in Power, she kill a Queen, in Her Territory, at the Nose of Her Guards and at the sight of Rowan to see it all... The sight she does to Rowan isn't for nothing is a warning to not get too comfortable in his position less to be rebellious, he's not even near in the position of Power as that Queen and she was killed as nothing, the twins doesn't have too much motivations to treat him better in the future, an example of that is Helayna, she was under a spell that makes her a cockwhore and it doesn't matter how important is she for Rowan, she can't be saved of a worse destiny without consequences, the twins are so low in motivations to keep him happy that if Rowan choose to not claim Helayna, after that vision of being raped by everyone, he and his wife are invited to dinner with the twins and there is Andras fucking Helayna there, if Rowan claim her then you'll have a break in your marriage; because as far in extension of the story goes they are still at Power over him. The main person who's Rowan can be have as something near like an ally is Nasim, and only when their interest coincide at heart.

 

[Oriandu]

Rowan saved her because he was working for the enemy and lied about it. The fuck did you expect to happen?

For Delane to be brought back to Castle Bloodmeen, probably. You know... where Rowan's wife, demonic masters, an armada or orcs, fantasy monsters, and sex demons dwell. >.>

I've seen that topic broached before here. The castle is complicated enough as it is and the last thing Rowan needs is to bring in a relatively innocent woman who is ill suited to protect herself in such an environment. Especially with his potentially jealous, corrupted wife roaming the halls.

 

[AlexWildfire]

Pal as many of the people through history that ends enslave, Rowan can and must be considered as a slave, isn't something his condition to be grateful or not seriously is a metaphor, because he and his wife could have been a worse treatment, the reason for keeping him in a position at the Castle is not only because he's valuable, is for torture him because of him the world he knows and the people he protected will be one way or another under the Twins rule, everything for was he had fought for is now been corrupted or under a rule that he never stood for. Nonetheless it doesn't mean that Rowan as many people who was enslave end accepting the fact that he's property, but in the practice he's like one, Rastedel confirms that when he explained all the situation and by reasonably it could be, for the twins don't care, he must obey, he must reach the high bar, it was explained in every town were Andras lead a conquest and make him choose to kill or not an ancient man, if he obeys or not there are always consequences in which Rowan will be directly or not implicated on it. What happen if Rowan do not achieve requirements on days 22 and 60?, Game Over as simply as that.

As many people in a power position, they all subsequently watched over their actions, as when Rowan try to figure it out the pendant on him and then he was warned about the consequences of that, and there can be assume that in certain actions by Rowan can be taken too comforting in his position of Power in the Castle or by trying to be rebellious, the twins at certain way are informed, not only as Andras example, when Jezera ask to Rowan to accompany her to visit a potential ally, she demonstrate who's in Power, she kill a Queen, in Her Territory, at the Nose of Her Guards and at the sight of Rowan to see it all... The sight she does to Rowan isn't for nothing is a warning to not get too comfortable in his position less to be rebellious, he's not even near in the position of Power as that Queen and she was killed as nothing, the twins doesn't have too much motivations to treat him better in the future, an example of that is Helayna, she was under a spell that makes her a cockwhore and it doesn't matter how important is she for Rowan, she can't be saved of a worse destiny without consequences, the twins are so low in motivations to keep him happy that if Rowan choose to not claim Helayna, after that vision of being raped by everyone, he and his wife are invited to dinner with the twins and there is Andras fucking Helayna there, if Rowan claim her then you'll have a break in your marriage; because as far in extension of the story goes they are still at Power over him. The main person who's Rowan can be have as something near like an ally is Nasim, and only when their interest coincide at heart.

Game over, to both Rowan and the twins, trying to be the voice of neutrality here, the twins have every reason to want to keep Rowan happyish, they are screwd without him, if he fails to take the fortress not so much, but if he does not get the orcs or goes to Rastadel? Them they are everything but described to have been destroyed.

Rowan is a servant of the twins, not exactly a slave, but a servant, the twins are like children playing with toys that daddy left them ,with demonic arrogance and pride on top, Jezera killed an noble drow women yes, but at the same time she did so because she overestimated herself and got out with nothing. I find it hard to believe that the twins actualy have any good great plans, or make concrete plans together, Adras seems like he only thinks of the next fight, and Jezera of how can she overcomplicate matters and use subterfuge to acomplish it. They keep him in a position of power because, by their own word, they need him, not to torture him, if they did not need him they would have killed him and be done with it.
So they are in a middle ground, too pridefull to understand how much they need him , and to arrogant to treat him any better than any other of the high placed servants that cant wipe the floor with their asses. (So only the researcher is given enough security to not get to much more that a pestering half demon girl)

 

[klaus17]

So do i lost all possible helayna scenes if i don't claim her?

 

[Enigmanic]

So do i lost all possible helayna scenes if i don't claim her?

Yes.

 

[justahorse]

I'm a bit confused on how to achieve the two "newer" scenes with X'zartyl*. *Definitely misspelled, mb.

There is one where Rowan feels "guilty" and Alexia whips him with Succi-bosses help. Also there is an unfinished scene where Alexia dominates Rowan with Succi-bosses help.

My guess is that you need to both not fuck a lot with Rowan, and also avoid all NTR from the twins for Alexia? This way their hidden "loving marriage stat" is high. I tried this and wasn't able to get the catacombs or mission 1 scenes either.

 

[Mag. Opus]

For Delane to be brought back to Castle Bloodmeen, probably. You know... where Rowan's wife, demonic masters, an armada or orcs, fantasy monsters, and sex demons dwell. >.>

I've seen that topic broached before here. The castle is complicated enough as it is and the last thing Rowan needs is to bring in a relatively innocent woman who is ill suited to protect herself in such an environment. Especially with his potentially jealous, corrupted wife roaming the halls.

Oh yeah. Juliet is going to have a terrible time.
That aside, and I could be misremembering this, Delane wanted to set up wherever Rowan was operating out in the field in order to help him subvert the twins.
It's a moot point though.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

So do i lost all possible helayna scenes if i don't claim her?

Yes.

Well, you will still get a scene at the celebration dinner where the twins have her service them as a way of poking Rowan, as well as a non sex scene where she starts to recover and comes to Rowan to ask for help escaping.

But at this time you miss the majority of her content by not claiming her. Then again we also know she is getting a pretty major rework to her arc, so who knows what the future holds.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

I'm a bit confused on how to achieve the two "newer" scenes with X'zartyl*. *Definitely misspelled, mb.

There is one where Rowan feels "guilty" and Alexia whips him with Succi-bosses help. Also there is an unfinished scene where Alexia dominates Rowan with Succi-bosses help.

My guess is that you need to both not fuck a lot with Rowan, and also avoid all NTR from the twins for Alexia? This way their hidden "loving marriage stat" is high. I tried this and wasn't able to get the catacombs or mission 1 scenes either.

The whipping one is called xzaratl_guilt_solution to trigger you have to be past week 22 and have a guilt score of over 35. The Other one is jezeraNTRdetox and is tricky to trigger. First you have to be past week 25, next Alexia has to have whipped Rowan, Alexia has to have a X'Zaratl influence score of over 9, you can't have shared your room with Helayna, and Alexia can't be a maid.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Game over, to both Rowan and the twins, trying to be the voice of neutrality here, the twins have every reason to want to keep Rowan happyish, they are screwd without him, if he fails to take the fortress not so much, but if he does not get the orcs or goes to Rastadel? Them they are everything but described to have been destroyed.

I don't know if we were playing the same game... When the game starts before trapping Rowan the twins were enough capable of gathering a few forces and coordinate to making a trap to the so call "Hero" who in this world it seems that Rowan is the incarnation of Sun Tzu or is some kind of Stephen Hawking in military strategies despite being a fucking commoner while the rest of the monarchy seems to be at the level of Beaves & Butthead in military capacities and besides of that he fall in the most obvious trap by going to save his wife without any preparation so... Well... After this introduction and Rowan was put to work in a Power Position in the Castle because refuse is an immediate Game Over, as far a we The Players interpreting Rowan, when really, seriously, when Rowan encounter a military force against him at the moment we take a village or Town?.

What we can encounter is resistance of the commoners, but in any moment as far as i remember, Rowan never encounter scouts, tax collectors, soldiers, even when this towns knows what were happening more or less to other towns that began trading or being conquered or reduce to dust by the Twins Champion Rowan, Rowan never encountered real professional resistance from a real army, that could be at least compound of mercenaries or soldiers of Raeve Keep to retake a town or a small group sent to intercept and defend a town, in fact, for them is was there wasn't happening anything. In fact, that is the more funny because relatively talking, Raeve Keep was pretty near to many towns attacked by Rowan, imaging that in a day, a town that serves or at least trade with the Twins a Tax Collector comes...

Rowan goes into all that Kingdom as a dog in its house, conquering, trading, taking, looting, etc... The only real opposition are Raeve Keep and Rastedel, if it wasn't for the Twins demanding it would be perfectly possible to conquer or trade with all the villages to side to the Twins, what are they gonna do (Raeve Keep & Rastedel) when the money from taxes and the food don't get to them and began to starvation?. It would be difficult for the Twins to get the shit done? probably, but when a Kingdom in a practical sense lose village after another without making opposition to the aggressors well, they can have their chance, i mean, if their Father could put in their knees the Monarchs and wasn't after Rowan take the lead, a fucking commoner, to stop and destroy all the Twin's Father made, definitely they can have a chance.

Rowan is a servant of the twins, not exactly a slave, but a servant, the twins are like children playing with toys that daddy left them ,with demonic arrogance and pride on top, Jezera killed an noble drow women yes, but at the same time she did so because she overestimated herself and got out with nothing. I find it hard to believe that the twins actualy have any good great plans, or make concrete plans together, Adras seems like he only thinks of the next fight, and Jezera of how can she overcomplicate matters and use subterfuge to acomplish it. They keep him in a position of power because, by their own word, they need him, not to torture him, if they did not need him they would have killed him and be done with it.
So they are in a middle ground, too pridefull to understand how much they need him , and to arrogant to treat him any better than any other of the high placed servants that cant wipe the floor with their asses. (So only the researcher is given enough security to not get to much more that a pestering half demon girl)

A Servant is a free person who is in service of a Lord, the Lord have obligations to that person as could be home, food, vestment while the Servant have to submit completely to the Lord authority, give rent and help in their Lord's warfare. There is a problem with this, Rowan was taken as a prisoner, subdued by magic means and by the time all of that happens to him, the Demons were familiarized with the philosophy of Might Makes Right not with Feudalism, if Rowan suggest to them when asked by government opinion Feudalism bullshit, then is when Rowan is named in the Court of The Twins as some kind of Vassal without even being even a Servant because in the first place he was forcefully to obey and service them.

Read carefully my post cited by you, the torture is not physically but spiritual, mental and morally... They acknowledge his capacities but he's still the murderer of their Father, if it was true that they need him so much at the point to try to have him at any cost, then it doesn't make any sense if Rowan refuse to serve them the fucking Game Over, Rowan could be death but as far as we know the Monarchy in Rastedel are just too much more dumb than them... Yes, the twins have many problems, coordination and ways to spend efforts, time and resources, but they could manage to gather before taking over Rowan a small group of "vassals" by themselves, they are not more worthless than the Royalty and Nobles in all the Kingdom that under their noses lose all the villages and an important post as Raeve Keep could be.

Just think about it, Jezera had more reason to be arrogant before that Elf Queen, she had Rowan on her side, the only one who could stop her Father to conquer the world, the problem is that they know that Rowan can be managing things in his own way by taking the charge of the Castle in ways that the Twins wouldn't never disapprove or by suspecting to be rebellious, they want Rowan embrace the corruption, by that, they would had a Loyal General worth of trust to them, that's why they send to him that Elf Blondie, the Best Friend of Jezera and the occasional visits of X'zaralt, while Andras goes with him to meet with the orcs warchiefs and conquer a village and prove his loyalty.

Spoiler: PS. Best Ilustrative of What Venus Noire Team did with Rowan at Rastedel

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[Capt Price]

When is the android version coming out?

 

[Oriandu]

I don't know if we were playing the same game... When the game starts before trapping Rowan the twins were enough capable of gathering a few forces and coordinate to making a trap to the so call "Hero" who in this world it seems that Rowan is the incarnation of Sun Tzu or is some kind of Stephen Hawking in military strategies despite being a fucking commoner while the rest of the monarchy seems to be at the level of Beaves & Butthead in military capacities and besides of that he fall in the most obvious trap by going to save his wife without any preparation so... Well... After this introduction and Rowan was put to work in a Power Position in the Castle because refuse is an immediate Game Over, as far a we The Players interpreting Rowan, when really, seriously, when Rowan encounter a military force against him at the moment we take a village or Town?.

What we can encounter is resistance of the commoners, but in any moment as far as i remember, Rowan never encounter scouts, tax collectors, soldiers, even when this towns knows what were happening more or less to other towns that began trading or being conquered or reduce to dust by the Twins Champion Rowan, Rowan never encountered real professional resistance from a real army, that could be at least compound of mercenaries or soldiers of Raeve Keep to retake a town or a small group sent to intercept and defend a town, in fact, for them is was there wasn't happening anything. In fact, that is the more funny because relatively talking, Raeve Keep was pretty near to many towns attacked by Rowan, imaging that in a day, a town that serves or at least trade with the Twins a Tax Collector comes...

Rowan goes into all that Kingdom as a dog in its house, conquering, trading, taking, looting, etc... The only real opposition are Raeve Keep and Rastedel, if it wasn't for the Twins demanding it would be perfectly possible to conquer or trade with all the villages to side to the Twins, what are they gonna do (Raeve Keep & Rastedel) when the money from taxes and the food don't get to them and began to starvation?. It would be difficult for the Twins to get the shit done? probably, but when a Kingdom in a practical sense lose village after another without making opposition to the aggressors well, they can have their chance, i mean, if their Father could put in their knees the Monarchs and wasn't after Rowan take the lead, a fucking commoner, to stop and destroy all the Twin's Father made, definitely they can have a chance.

A Servant is a free person who is in service of a Lord, the Lord have obligations to that person as could be home, food, vestment while the Servant have to submit completely to the Lord authority, give rent and help in their Lord's warfare. There is a problem with this, Rowan was taken as a prisoner, subdued by magic means and by the time all of that happens to him, the Demons were familiarized with the philosophy of Might Makes Right not with Feudalism, if Rowan suggest to them when asked by government opinion Feudalism bullshit, then is when Rowan is named in the Court of The Twins as some kind of Vassal without even being even a Servant because in the first place he was forcefully to obey and service them.

Read carefully my post cited by you, the torture is not physically but spiritual, mental and morally... They acknowledge his capacities but he's still the murderer of their Father, if it was true that they need him so much at the point to try to have him at any cost, then it doesn't make any sense if Rowan refuse to serve them the fucking Game Over, Rowan could be death but as far as we know the Monarchy in Rastedel are just too much more dumb than them... Yes, the twins have many problems, coordination and ways to spend efforts, time and resources, but they could manage to gather before taking over Rowan a small group of "vassals" by themselves, they are not more worthless than the Royalty and Nobles in all the Kingdom that under their noses lose all the villages and an important post as Raeve Keep could be.

Just think about it, Jezera had more reason to be arrogant before that Elf Queen, she had Rowan on her side, the only one who could stop her Father to conquer the world, the problem is that they know that Rowan can be managing things in his own way by taking the charge of the Castle in ways that the Twins wouldn't never disapprove or by suspecting to be rebellious, they want Rowan embrace the corruption, by that, they would had a Loyal General worth of trust to them, that's why they send to him that Elf Blondie, the Best Friend of Jezera and the occasional visits of X'zaralt, while Andras goes with him to meet with the orcs warchiefs and conquer a village and prove his loyalty.

Spoiler: PS. Best Ilustrative of What Venus Noire Team did with Rowan at Rastedel

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I don't know if I would say that's an apt comparison. I don't disagree with what you've said as clearly the twins hold the power, but to call Rowan a helpless middleman whose only purpose is to be used and disposed of is inaccurate. He's given plenty of opportunities to operate on his own and the further we go into act one the more he's able to push his own agenda. The twins are the angry brutes screaming "don't fail me" as Rowan is given incredible leeway to fulfill his mission. He has way more agency in his decisions than the Bane comparison gives him credit for.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

I don't know if I would say that's an apt comparison. I don't disagree with what you've said as clearly the twins hold the power, but to call Rowan a helpless middleman whose only purpose is to be used and disposed of is inaccurate. He's given plenty of opportunities to operate on his own and the further we go into act one the more he's able to push his own agenda. The twins are the angry brutes screaming "don't fail me" as Rowan is given incredible leeway to fulfill his mission. He has way more agency in his decisions than the Bane comparison gives him credit for.

Certainly, Rowan has a chance if he play his cards right... But this is just Act I, and as far we concern, the only character near to be an ally is Nasim, because for now Helayna isn't in better shape, if we (the players) goes dumb to see NTR with Alexia then she would be lost as an ally for us (Rowan). And is very tentative those scenes u know ... Now with all that said, as far as Act I goes, everything that Rowan has done worked in benefit of the Twins, after save the ass of that Sexual Demon murderer i cannot trust him/her whatever because as far the story goes Rowan still don't get a benefit of that, the first time i played and finally conquer Rastedel to see what comes of that because of the Twins, i knew exactly how character John Daggett from TDKR must had felt in that scene lol.

Twins: Do you feel in charge?.

Rowan: I create for you an army, secure enough resources, forge alliances, conquer villages as Raeve Keep and the Half of Rastedel, put to work mines & breeding pits, resolve problems between your people and with the creatures you breed, diminish the faith in the Goddess, sacrifice Helayna, let you play with me and my wife when you have sexual needs...

Twins: And do you think that give you power over us?.

rolfmao.

 

[rivon]

Okay, so i contacted developer and i got this totally official response form Lord Arioch:

It come to our attention that pirate community is torn apart on the subject of power dynamics in SoC game.
it pain us to see people can't put aside there differences and accept the truth!
To avoid further confusion here is official chart of power levels in SoC as it stands for Act 1.

 

[Back]

That chart is all over the place and confusing. Am I the only one that went, "What?".
For instance, Rowan -- one of the greatest, most capable, and renowned heroes of the realms -- appears to be no better than a common soldier who shouldn't even be able to take down an old minotaur according to the chart. Huh?
Helayna is a masterful cook? Alexia can be thrown at the Orcs on the regular? When did those things happen? Did I miss something? I'm aware of only two scenes of Alexia with any Orc -- a BJ bar scene and a rape attempt made by another at Bloodmeen. I'll admit that I haven't encountered either from however long ago I last played the game though.
Who was Ameraine again? The vampire that Rowan can meet in Rastadel?
Red, Blue, the Mage, and X'Zaratl, okay, those ones makes sense.
Maybe define what power dynamics means here can make things clearer. Perhaps I'm simply interpreting things incorrectly.

Edit: Okay, so going in I had my doubts about the chart (due to the red flags but maybe it was just punched up quickly?) and about the whole LA angle since he works through intermediaries... However, considering how the dev team sometimes responds here with generous amounts of sarcasm while answering some questions combined with (admittedly) no small degree of naivete on my part and my willingness to trust Rivon, who wouldn't do such a thing as put that trust in doubt, I thought perhaps it was at least plausible and ran with it.

...I feel so betrayed. ^^"

 

[monk_56]

That chart is all over the place and confusing. Am I the only one that went, "What?".

It is pretty obviously just Rivon trolling.

Even if it weren't painfully obvious from all the cringey character titles, sarcasm about the dev giving him the chart, and sloppy power level comparisons; an actual power dynamic chart would be spoilery and something I could never see LA giving to some random pirate or even see value in making in the first place.