Actually there is a specific set of circumstances that causes that particular "lusting", if you kept playing just a bit more you would have saw what is going on.The NTR is easily avoidable , the wife isn't just waiting for someone to take her.
Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]
- Aug 8, 2018
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I didn't drop the game, I know I said that before but I like dramatizing things, and I know why the scene unfolds as it does, that fact doesn't change my opinion.
Nevertheless, I don't need to justify why and what rubs me the wrong way, I don't like the scene and that's that.
- Nov 8, 2020
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So, I completed the Rastedel content, and I have to admit, I'm a bit complexed. What exactly is the point of the options and choices that the player can make to go out of their way to be as compliant as possible while going above and beyond to do what's in the twin's best interests? I had presumed this sort of loyalist route was meant to be one where you accrue trust and favor of the twins and those faithful to their cause. But, I'm not seeing that at all in the dialogue here. Rather, it seems like you are mistrusted, belittled and second guessed every bit as much as when you are completely defiant, regardless of how many choices you make to appease and support them.
For instance, upon making every choice to be compliant and helpful to them in general prior, Rowan helps them in the battle leading up to the conquest of Rastedel. Then, you do every choice in Rastedel to maximize the Twins's success and preferences. Why then, does Jezera think you are just trying to play hero when he tries to explain the benefits of not slaughtering thousands of potential useful bodies for their cause? Even if Jezera earnestly believes there is some greater benefit in killing a large portion of their human spoils, rather than accusing Rowan of trying to undermine them to play hero, if you've been doing all you can for them, being on that branch, should she not instead be like:
"Oh Rowan, Rowan, you still think of us as your former human compatriots. How cute. While it is true there is more raw potential economic value in your proposal, a demon army does not march on coin alone. There must be sufficient morale to keep our forces driven for the many conflicts to come. While your earnestness to please your masters is cute and noted, this is such a time where you should trust our better judgement in regard to our demon kin. But, if you are so driven to please...especially if to make up for your failures in meeting all our goals... You could be given a regiment in our sweep of the areas outside our safe zones to accompany the main blood-letting force. Your purpose would be to personally aid with the blood-letting while putting aside subjects of exceptional value to us, as to maximize our 'economic' gains without all the chaff. After all, you are merely seeking to do what's best for your dear owners, right...my hero?" *She says as extending her foot out for him to kiss and agree to with her signature triumphant smug smirk*
Something like that, instead of the same mistrust, dismissiveness and discontent as if you were going out of your way to defy them would go a long way in making it feel like your loyalty and appeasement choices matter for major events like this. For me, and I believe for many others, one of the great pleasures for games of this structure is having choices feel like they matter in the game. It's almost immersion breaking for me for there to be more or less no difference in how I am treated or what I can do regardless if I go out of my way to defy the twins or to appease and aid them. Surely, such choices should result in stark differences for content as major as Rastedel. If not, what's even the point of such choices to begin with? They would be little more than window dressing if they mattered so little in regard to exchanges with major characters in major events, which would be undermining one of the core methods to give satisfaction for the player in a game with this design structure. Of course, I do understand the game is still in development, so if this is something that just isn't fully fleshed out, I certainly would understand. But, I do hope such variability is planned for such content if that is so. Genuinely, as someone with interest for the game, it would feel like a serious misstep if that level of variability in reflecting player choices was not implemented in the game before its completion.
For instance, upon making every choice to be compliant and helpful to them in general prior, Rowan helps them in the battle leading up to the conquest of Rastedel. Then, you do every choice in Rastedel to maximize the Twins's success and preferences. Why then, does Jezera think you are just trying to play hero when he tries to explain the benefits of not slaughtering thousands of potential useful bodies for their cause? Even if Jezera earnestly believes there is some greater benefit in killing a large portion of their human spoils, rather than accusing Rowan of trying to undermine them to play hero, if you've been doing all you can for them, being on that branch, should she not instead be like:
"Oh Rowan, Rowan, you still think of us as your former human compatriots. How cute. While it is true there is more raw potential economic value in your proposal, a demon army does not march on coin alone. There must be sufficient morale to keep our forces driven for the many conflicts to come. While your earnestness to please your masters is cute and noted, this is such a time where you should trust our better judgement in regard to our demon kin. But, if you are so driven to please...especially if to make up for your failures in meeting all our goals... You could be given a regiment in our sweep of the areas outside our safe zones to accompany the main blood-letting force. Your purpose would be to personally aid with the blood-letting while putting aside subjects of exceptional value to us, as to maximize our 'economic' gains without all the chaff. After all, you are merely seeking to do what's best for your dear owners, right...my hero?" *She says as extending her foot out for him to kiss and agree to with her signature triumphant smug smirk*
Something like that, instead of the same mistrust, dismissiveness and discontent as if you were going out of your way to defy them would go a long way in making it feel like your loyalty and appeasement choices matter for major events like this. For me, and I believe for many others, one of the great pleasures for games of this structure is having choices feel like they matter in the game. It's almost immersion breaking for me for there to be more or less no difference in how I am treated or what I can do regardless if I go out of my way to defy the twins or to appease and aid them. Surely, such choices should result in stark differences for content as major as Rastedel. If not, what's even the point of such choices to begin with? They would be little more than window dressing if they mattered so little in regard to exchanges with major characters in major events, which would be undermining one of the core methods to give satisfaction for the player in a game with this design structure. Of course, I do understand the game is still in development, so if this is something that just isn't fully fleshed out, I certainly would understand. But, I do hope such variability is planned for such content if that is so. Genuinely, as someone with interest for the game, it would feel like a serious misstep if that level of variability in reflecting player choices was not implemented in the game before its completion.
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I'm gonna maintain my position, the Twins give a task beyond Rowan expectations (still, he's not as smarter as many and sometimes himself claim to be), what do you feel as Rowan was exactly as this:
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- Nov 8, 2020
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Rowan seems to be delivering rather well. I don't think he is really being oversold for his ability. It's not like he's seen as some unstoppable martial force. He's just a skilled tactician and competent fighter with a great amount of determination who has proven himself time and time again. Although, it's worth mentioning, his value as a target of the twins is also tied into him being mistreated by those he fought for in the past, which gives suitable reason for him to be convinced to support a different faction. Of course, if you feel that Rowan hasn't done enough to live up to his prestige, by all means, give feedback that you think he should be given more events to show his worth.
How the Twins might react to Rowan in one branch of choices should most certainty be different than how he acts in a completely different branch of choices. There is a big difference between rebellious defiance and earnest support. Moreover, it doesn't just make sense narratively, but from a game design standpoint too. One of the core reasons to give players multiple branching path options in a game of this design is to give them the feeling that their choices matter and that they shape the story and relationships in that story in a direction the player genuinely wants to go.
People are of course subjective, and so what characters, interactions and developments which hold the most interest for an individual is going to vary wildly from the next individual. These branching options should serve to put the player on a track that reflects their own interests and desires for the story and characters being fulfilled (within reason, of course), having their choices pay off in regard to what they strive towards. It's the 'fun' interactive part of the game.
If the structure of the game was to instead just be one linear story with just a little window dressing with superficial choice options, the interactions in the game would be much less meaningful and the appeal of the game would have been far more focused on a specific set of interests, narrowing the scope of appeal for the game. My impression going through the game so far, is that the goal of the game is the former rather than the latter. Thus, why it seems sensible for me to give my thoughts on what I've presumed is one of the major branching paths of the game (the loyalist / support / fall for the the twins route, whatever you want to call it) not really delivering in the interactions/events of a major piece of content like Rastedel.
With that said, I've of course recognized the game isn't complete yet in that feedback, and so I'm completely understanding if Rastedel's various dialogue and event branch pathing isn't yet complete.
But, yeah, while it makes sense for the Twins to continually go out of their way to put a rather defiant or undermining Rowan 'in his place,' so to speak, in one branch, the need to do so should subside substantially in a branch where Rowan is instead very supportive of them, genuinely trying to do what's best for their cause, showing that blatantly, while giving into them on a personal level in tangent to this. The distinction between such interactions is not only severe narratively, but it should serve as a distinction from a game design perspective too, for the reasons explained above. It's in the game's and the player's best interest for these interactions to be starkly different to reflect differing player choices and desires for the characters and events.
E.g. A player who likes the twins (or a particular twin) will pick choices that show support and desire for them. The player will then hope that those choices pay off in giving them dialogue and events that go with the desire behind those choices.
Alternatively, a player who hates the twins (or a particular twin) will pick choices that defy and undermine them. The player will then hope that those choices pay off in giving them dialogue and events that instead go with the desire behind those choices.
It's all about understanding the desire of the player, making choices and branching paths to resonate with those desires, and then delivering with the suitable dialogue and events as to fulfill those desires within the game's overarching narrative. While you can't, as a game developer, fulfill every desire ever since there are nigh infinite possibilities, it's good to have some distinct core ones down.
One of those distinct core branching paths is one for players who really like the twins and the idea of submitting to them, supporting their cause, or loving them, etc., who want to see the relationship with the twins grow in a direction that reflects those desires. Which, is of course, very sensible. There are many people who are going to be in this interest pool. I'm sure it was obvious from the get go. Just, as it's obvious there will be people who loathe the twins instead. While I am focusing a lot on the twins in these examples, there are of course other major branching paths too, certainly.
But, so, do you get what I'm saying? You don't want to have barely any difference in how the twins react to Rowan in different branching paths, as it's not fulfilling the core purpose of the branching path design system in the game. An attempt at making a technical notion that the interaction might still be valid in a specific, very simplified character perspective doesn't do anything to change the fact that it makes the choices the player is making feel unimportant, in general, and unfulfilling, in regard to the branching path they have gone out of the way to be on. Not to say that this is so for the whole game thus far; I'm focusing specifically on the Rastedel content, and, perhaps, to an extent, the content for the battle prior.
The right way to say it isn't that the game is not completed, but the Story isn't is the right way, what you play is just Act I, there is not enough content to see relevant difference between a loyal, heroic, traitor routes... It's still too green for that, and as far the game in this Act I has develop, Rowan and Alexia have near a year captive in the Twins Castle, by any reason I can't expect by the Twins to trust entirely in Rowan with just a few towns and mines that for some reason I can't understand, Raeve Keep & Rastedel never, ever takes care of WTF was going on under their noses Kingdom. In a way, for Rowan this must be like a easy for pussies task because the majority of the time there was none resistance anyware... I mean, in a year at least a Tax Collector from any of this major objectives (Raeve Keep and Rastedel as well) have just passed collecting to a town and see some orcs custodian or a mayor of the town in a negative of paying them taxes because they were conquered or because they now trade with demons. Nonetheless, if a town or Abbey gets attacked there is no one as a messenger to reach Raeve Keep and Rastedel for help?.
Rowan competent?. There have been some several discussions about this that seriously questions this, first of all, Rowan is a commoner, he live between commoners and despises a bit the nobility because feudalism bullshit, allright, How Rowan could surpass in knowledge and tactics war like to a noble if he literally born between commoners and never-ever could dream to have a properly education?. There is a dialog and a decision that evidence Rowan must patrol sometimes as a price for having security but he have just a common sword and equipment that in the best it could be for someone who served as a soldier in a mercenary army. End captured by the twins in the most dumb way possible by being attracted by the enemy and being little careless in preparation, something a tactician wouldn't do (by the argument he was dumb because was emotionally affected it wouldn't be less sense to believe Rowan as a Master Tactician in a War where he could have lose men and some of them could have been close to him). And we can so on and more... Like a possibly complex he must have.
Do you know when we end to discuss that? (iirc), when developers said:
By that and his possibly Hero Complex, Rowan in the War must have been part in many of the most successful events but for some reason he was at the right moment at the right time, making him rise up positions and by just luck or by a Random God's Whim he was still safe when nobody expect that and being called Hero after that. But by the way nobility in a literal sense leave to be stolen all the Towns for being at the side of the Twins as they wouldn't care, maybe in that Universe the only ones with some brains are Rowan and the Twins, and this last though would be not just hilarious, but sad and problematic if it could be truth. What i want to believe is this nobility is in war with other Kingdom and their resources of men are just too low to intervene, but still there must be an explanation, i'm waiting that.
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- Nov 8, 2020
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A year is plenty of time to have enough interactions with someone to establish varying degrees of trust which would result in different types of interactions with them based on what those interactions contained. One doesn't need complete absolute trust for this to be the case, not at all. Saying otherwise serves no purpose. It's not only inaccurate to how relationships form from my knowledge and experience with others, but it doesn't help the game any. Act 1 has enough content and covers a large enough length of time to lead to clearly distinct branch paths forming in regard to character relations. Easily. I don't think that's remotely a concern. And, regardless, it doesn't change that it only is robbing the player of meaningful interactions that play into the route they are invested in with their pathing. I feel that the example I gave in my original post on this is well within what's reasonable for what Jezera could say to a more compliant supportive Rowan who has acted in their best interests, for example. Although, it is just an example. There's a number of ways it could be done to reflect a distinct level of trust from other branch paths.
I think it's extremely skeptical and cynical to presume Rowan's success that gave him the respect and reputation he has came about from just luck. Also, a lack of education? That doesn't matter at all. Experience holds substantially more weight than a sit-down education in matters of tactical warfare, or at the very least, can compete handedly. We can see in his flashbacks that he was put in a do or die situation and rose to the occasion, multiple times. We find out plenty about his past exploits where he turned the tide of battles that would otherwise have been losses in creative ways. People would not lord him as one of the six heroes if it was just continual dumb luck. That seems completely implausible with what we know thus far. It seems very apparent that Rowan has tactical skill in the first act too. If not for him, the twins would have left the region entirely from the surprise army in retreat, and would have not been able to take Rastedel.
Tactical expertise aside. He's also proven himself to be great at running a castle and raising an army, adjusting to different variables that come with a demon army, constantly putting the effort in to see progress come to fruition. Some of this does come down to player choice and competence too to reflect this fully, but that effort from the player should be considered fair game for event considerations, I'd think.
I'd say it does all come down to the development of the game as well. Everything I've mentioned can be expanded on however much the developers may want. It's not like the game is set in stone; it's in development and will be for quite a while. They can always include more scenes with Rowan doing more things if they want to establish his merit more. They can always expand on branching paths in any part of the game to have choices more reflective in dialogue and events as well. I think it's good for players to just give genuine feedback from their experiences so the developers have an idea of what people going through the game are thinking and feelings in regard to it. Especially if they can explain those thoughts and feelings while doing so.
Which, is why I said early on in my previous reply to you that if you personally feel that Rowan hasn't been established enough in his merit or that his strengths aren't shown enough, it's completely fine for that to be your feedback since that is what your subjective feelings have been with your interpretation of the story. I personally don't quite share in your position, and I've explained why, just as you've explained your thoughts on Rowan. All the more better for the developers to have different perspectives shared in regard to things, I'd think. So, that's all good, yeah?
- Oct 17, 2017
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- Dec 19, 2017
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But the only reason you're able to know it is because it's her pov. Plus, they're in a highly corrupted place..
In the end she only acts on those urges if you decide. If the main protag can have sexual urges or thoughts why not the secondary protag?
I think most people stopped playing every update from beginning like me. Since gallery mod isn't updated most people won't see the new content, especially writing part. I downloaded to see new CG, which were good and that's all the feedback I can give, and deleted the game afterwards. There won't be much feedback for this reason imo.
I generally play Rowan in a dominant evil way. I really like the goblin content. Its no longer about just having a goblin milf that you occasionally bang and then ignore. No, this was surprisingly well thought out, and very very satisfying for Cla-min and Rowan's relationship. I mean holy shit, we went from basically having little to no relationship to a deep and meaningful one. Seeds is fast becoming quite good at this. First we get the choice to resist Cliohna so that we can enter into an equals relationship with her later down the line. Then we get X'Zaratl hinting that she really thinks marriage, love, and birth are special. Which leaves the possibility open that she would also become married to Rowan and Alexia. Perhaps even getting knocked up by Rowan.
The Jezera content I did like but it was iffy for me. Now granted it does make sense that Jezera kept telling Rowan that he's only getting things that she's allowing him to get and waving her power in front of his face. I decided to wait to break in the maid because I want Rowan to be able to do it without Jezera being around. As a dominant Rowan player, it makes more sense to attain more power and then come back to show Jezera he's not to be toyed with. I mean Helayna's daydream was quite the dream wasn't it? That is what will be fun to work towards. Nonetheless on an extra save file, I did play through the scene and I think it was pretty good for people who want to submit to Jezera.
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- Apr 26, 2021
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This last release was my favorite narrative release we've had in the game so far. The Liurial, Goblin, and Jezera content carried. The art was mixed bag.
There was a lot of feedback given on the discord.
If all you do is replay the scene content your feedback would likely be a little piecemeal anyway. The content this go-around should be easily accessible just by loading a previous save.
Jezera's content is accessible from any save as long as you have favor points with her
Liurial was a continuation of her event chain so very easy to proc out by loading a save.
Goblin plot was the same- easy to get as well.
Ghorza plot could take awhile if you loaded an early save- load a save later in the game so the event pool is smaller and fish for the event that way.
Ya'll in this SoC forum are tone def regarding people who dislike NTR vibed content. One conditional in that Greyhide plot where you can decide what your sexual attitude will be moving forward in event instead of the wifey staring at cock that makes the protag look like he is rocking a baby-kosher dill pickle and the whole mess could be triaged. The entire Greyhide drugging plot reeks of NTR. Of course NTR fans will love it and defend it- but why can't there be room for both fandoms to be satisfied by the plots that are not supposed to be NTR plots. Give us a cleaner out. A lot of people really hate this sort of content- shit like this chases them and their money away from the game. The event should have better options for people who don't want their wife to be horny for taur cock; that way people who like cucky drugging plots AND people who want a faithful wife can both be happy. Maybe Alexia could realize she was ambiguously horny and go look for Rowan. Maybe she could decide she was feeling weird and bail out. Cut to Greyhide rocking a major Hard-on after after Alexia leaves so the player can still see Greyhide's struggle without the game superimposing a sexual preference onto Alexia. Her sexuality, just like Rowan's should be a player choice.
I dunno; brain-storming this sort of scenario is the wheelhouse of the writers. Giving the player more options is usually better in disgusting meta-plots like Greyhide's; especially when the potential solution doesn't have to cost the devs art assets, more than several lines of text, and more than a few line of code.
I hate the Greyhide plot, I hate that if forces me to engage with my wife's unfaithful thoughts and how much it emasculates the player character, I hate that the game forces me to be his friend after the plot, and it is frustrating that there aren't better options for the character who is supposed to unambiguously be your 'best bud' in Bloodmeen.
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- Dec 19, 2017
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As I said, they're a couple in a highly corrupted place facing a lot of temptations, there will be NTR vibed content because that's the nature of what they're facing, both of them "lusting" over other people is not something far-fetched and you the player will ultimately decide on how they deal with these thoughts, Alexia is a secondary protagonist, why only Rowan can be horny?
I guess some people can't even stand a single hint of a person being mildly attracted to others even though that's natural. You can't control everything, Alexia not giving in to temptation is a pretty huge way of showing she is faithful but you're asking for her to not even feel tempted.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, since i didn't play through all the content, maybe some of them really feel forced regarding Alexia thoughts/feelings and curiosity about others characters. If that's the case then let's hope the dev find anough time to make some modifications so they can be more natural.
Yes, they were fantastic. Well done winter, well done indeed. Truly there is a lot to say about the new content...
HOWEVER!
Let me remind people about the good ol' blacksmith first.
(Greyhide brings Rowan home to his wife after having a friendly chat and couple of drinks.Colorized.)
This is the guy that developers want us to pretend he is Rowan's best friend. The guy who definitely does not fuck Rowan's wife silly. Who does not walk around with a raging boner near Alexia in every other scene.
Alexia is a dignified pious women. She is not lusting after the hulking minotaur or the virile crimson demon. There is no hidden cuck sub-plot in this game. Seeds of Chaos is not a NTR game because you click a button at the start of the game. It clearly says "NTR-off". Rowan will surely turn the tables on the twins... any minute now!
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Rowan is Chad.
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- Oct 17, 2017
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Ah. I was talking about the new Blackholt goblin scenes. The introductions for Che-Lin and Zii.
Wait. Who are you on the discord? Also feedback here serves a different purpose, because y'all are to put it bluntly....whiny bitches. But, you need the whiny bitch feedback along with the "omg I love it" feedback.
We didn't have any new Greyhide events last month.Yes, they were fantastic. Well done winter, well done indeed. Truly there is a lot to say about the new content...
HOWEVER!
Let me remind people about the good ol' blacksmith first.
(Greyhide brings Rowan home to his wife after having a friendly chat and couple of drinks.Colorized.)
This is the guy that developers want us to pretend he is Rowan's best friend. The guy who definitely does not fuck Rowan's wife silly. Who does not walk around with a raging boner near Alexia in every other scene.
Alexia is a dignified pious women. She is not lusting after the hulking minotaur or the virile crimson demon. There is no hidden cuck sub-plot in this game. Seeds of Chaos is not a NTR game because you click a button at the start of the game. It clearly says "NTR-off". Rowan will surely turn the tables on the twins... any minute now!
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Rowan is Chad.
I wondering, why Rowan don't have mount? Teleport's is good, but hero mostly on his foot, so why not buy horse?
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- Apr 26, 2021
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Just another whiny bitch
I could have sworn you already knew- I'm considering sending you a DM though out of respect since you asked directly; but I'm pretty sure you hate my unfiltered forum ass.
Fair take though.
Anonymity will do that. Feedback on the discord is more filtered, more cushioned. Feedback here is unfiltered, more vitriol; sometimes spill-over from feeling lighter criticism feedback was not taken seriously or dismissed outright.
It is good you get feedback out of both places though- there are some genuinely interesting takes and conversations in this thread along with a big helping of everyone's bullshit.