Yandere Lust

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Nov 8, 2020
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We're actually starting a new major event chain for uncorrupted Alexia's with a high relationship to Rowan. With the intent of giving more pure non-NTR players stuff to do. Helayna Rework is also starting right around now and is going to have some good stuff, including for pure players.

It is worth mentioning that X'z does corrupt the couple, so they don't stay so much pure-pure on that event chain.

Nemesis system was mostly a casualty of the game shakeup around 2018 where we determined that a full six realm open world wasn't feasible. Likewise, magic-Alexia is on the chopping block of soon to be cut content, because we don't have a good way to make the game account for that variable. But, we do know folks are intirested in it, and we want to find a way to bring it back for Act 2 in a way that's more feasible, if we can.
I saw the pictures for the Nemesis scenes online. They looked pretty interesting. It's a shame to hear a way was never came up with as to how to include the character/narrative behind them. Likewise for magic Alexia. Having a more active role with Alexia sounds so appealing too. Kind of wish there was a route that would put Alexia more front and center where something like that could come into play. Like, you know, hypothetically, if there ever was a point where things could end up in such a way where you could take a more leading role with Alexia due to reasons, I probably would want to explore such a route. Just saying.

Speaking of passing curiosities, I recall a mention of a certain underground machine that could, supposedly, dabble in chaos magic to, hypothetically, change a person's sex, if they were so willing. Was this just mentioned for the sake of it being mentioned, or, might there be some teeny tiny ray of sunshine that such an application of such a machine could potentially come into play based on player decisions and circumstances (etc.) in regard to say, Rowan? :unsure:
 
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T51bwinterized

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Oct 17, 2017
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The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".
 
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Yandere Lust

Newbie
Nov 8, 2020
95
163
The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".
Perhaps it's something that you could invest in for Act 1, and have it play out more in Act 2, but only for select scenes that were significant? Or, and, maybe this is a bit too wild of a suggestion, since players seem to widely like Alexia with magic, just make her developing magical powers the true canon destiny of her, and just have it apply to all her scenes going forward in Act 2. If it just was a thing that would always end up happening, you could then, potentially, base more gameplay around it, right? Since, you wouldn't need to worry about a major mechanical part of the game being tossed aside if a player didn't happen to pick up magic... If you just made it so she would always get magic by Act 2 one way or the other, well, that would simplify things, right? At the very least, if you asked people about it, you could see if more people would like a magic Alexia vs. a non magic one going forward, if it had to be one or the other, and see where people stand on that. It's just an idea though if no other solution has really come about in regard to it.
 
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Yandere Lust

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Nov 8, 2020
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There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.
I don't think that idea or ideas in general that have come up for Act 1 that had some excitement being pushed to Act 2 would be that big of a deal. If anything, it would give at least a few specific things to look forward to in Act 2 in addition to what's completely unknown. Why, perhaps doing so would even ensure Act 2 is even more well received than Act 1. Seeing as the game is planned to have at least 3 Acts, it's reasonable that not just 1 Act would cram every popular or semi-popular desire into it. That's fair to say, right?
 

johlem

Newbie
Apr 30, 2018
32
52
There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.

and why not a necklace or bracelet which seals or unseals alexia's magic as needed and which would be controlled by one of the twins (or another npc)?
This would allow to continue the plot of an Alexia using magic while justifying the fact that she does not use it in each scene (and therefore without multiplying the number of variables exponentially)
 

rivon

Member
Jun 14, 2018
295
618

.......So Helayna will be delayed again now to finish Goblin sub plot?
May i ask how long it will take? two updates ? three?
 

T51bwinterized

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Game Developer
Oct 17, 2017
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No. Current plan is to work on both simultaneously. Realistically, it may make the Hel plot releases slower because there's only so many manpower hours. But I'm not pushing or shelving it.
 
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I would be happy to see a dominant path for Alexia where she stands up to the twins instead of either trying to avoid them or rolling over and becoming a sub to one of them.
 

lifegetsweird

Newbie
Jan 22, 2020
26
209
The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".
Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here. At this point (imo) the story sort of screams for Alexia to start openly changing for Andras, i.e. for her to either start wearing the revealing dress in all situations, or to magically grow her breasts, or to pierce her nipples, etc. but I understand this would duplicate the art workload for scenes involving her and thus is probably a big no-no. What are your thoughts on that? I really, really like this path, I think you've done an awesome job with it, but from the outside looking in I wonder if it can really reach a satisfying conclusion.
 

Rivina

Member
Jan 7, 2021
127
356
Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here.
You're absolutely right. To give the game room to grow, all Alexia/Andras content should be moved to Act 3. Nods sagely.
 

T51bwinterized

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Oct 17, 2017
1,456
3,480
Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here. At this point (imo) the story sort of screams for Alexia to start openly changing for Andras, i.e. for her to either start wearing the revealing dress in all situations, or to magically grow her breasts, or to pierce her nipples, etc. but I understand this would duplicate the art workload for scenes involving her and thus is probably a big no-no. What are your thoughts on that? I really, really like this path, I think you've done an awesome job with it, but from the outside looking in I wonder if it can really reach a satisfying conclusion.
At some point, the game is just going to have to develop a "Alexia is Wife" vs "Alexia isn't wife" variable. Then, most of the scenes with her can be designed around her being present or not present.

Once you have such a variable, then it's a lot easier to pick and choose what scenes Alexia is in, so that we have more room for divergences. Alexia x Andras can become a sub-variable of Not Wife, meaning we only have to account for it in not-wife allowing scenes.

By the same token, it would gate Alexia out of generic sex scenes, but allow wider divergences in sexual content.

But, such a thing is impossible in act 1, because we have too many random or one-off scenes featuring her, especially at her job events.

For the record: This isn't an ironclad plan or anything. It's merely the type of solution we're looking at to get around multi-state wankery.
 

rivon

Member
Jun 14, 2018
295
618
I turn off the NTR, but i still receiving this Choices. Its normal? Can someone please help me?
Ofcurse good sir! Let me explain this unfortunate situation to you.
You see any NTR protection in SoC world is not 100% foolproof. There is always a chance that your wife may or may not cheat on you even if you dont catch her do so!:KEK:
Just pretend you didn't see anything! :HideThePain:
 
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