Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[maverick@79]

i got bored with thius game
mc is f*ing panzy and hes's supposed to be this great war hero
yeah right so f*ing weak

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

In the past, I've had a good number of debates with people from the aggressively anti-NTR crowd that show up here, some public and some private. But I think I've developed a decent understanding of their mental state.

First of all many of them overly identify with Rowan. If Rowan gets cheated on they feel like they've been cheated on, because in their mind they ARE Rowan. To be fair this is fairly common to all games to an extent due to their interactive nature. You don't say the video game character killed the bad guy, you say I killed the bad guy, you don't say my character died, to say I died. At first I thought that the ability to choose whether or not Alexia had sex with anyone would solve the issue, but it doesn't because of the second element.

Second, they usually have an overly broad definition of NTR and cheating. In fact seeing things from Alexia's perspective seems to make it worse. They get to see Alexia look at someone like Andras and think about how good looking his is wonder what it would be like to have sex with him. So even if she shakes the intrusive thoughts away and reaffirms her commitment to Rowan, to them she is already cheating in her mind. Even if she never acts on it, part of her wanted to. In this way even turning NTR off doesn't help she still gets temped, it just removes the option to give in. Now, I would argue that is a pretty irrational and that people have intrusive thoughts and feel tempted or get urges to do things they shouldn't do all the time. But that is how they feel, and feeling are often irrational. And not every game is a good fit for everyone. So if they feel these ways, this game is probably not for them.

So why are they here complaining about the content of this game? Why are they here instead of in the threads for CuckMaster 3 or some such? I think it is because SoC is a really good porn game. It's art and writing is top their in the field. So people see one of the best games in the genre and they are frustrated that it excludes them. They want to get into it, but the content is just too off putting for them, and it just so frustrating to have to settle for 'lesser' games.

Some of them try to offer legitimates critisim hoping the devs will alter it into something they can enjoy, some of them lash out in thier frustrations, other just act dismissive of the game and the people that enjoy it.

 

[Masterson7]

Andreas being such an aggressive homo is the biggest pikachu face for me in this game.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Andreas being such an aggressive homo is the biggest pikachu face for me in this game.

Andras would've been a great bro, if he wasn't such a selfish idiot

 

[Darth Sidious]

So anyone found this new Fae event that the Changelog spoke of? What's the event called in debug?

 

[EvolutionKills]

They get to see Alexia look at someone like Andras and think about how good looking his is wonder what it would be like to have sex with him. So even if she shakes the intrusive thoughts away and reaffirms her commitment to Rowan, to them she is already cheating in her mind. Even if she never acts on it, part of her wanted to.

Emphasis mine.

Fucking hell.

That is the most ass-backwards, fucked up, uber-repressive bullshit ever. That reeks of strict childhood indoctrination along regressive religious lines.

If anything being able to resist the temptation of such thoughts is an example of her stronger moral fiber, because she both faced and overcame temptation. You never know the strength of one's moral conviction unless that conviction is challenged. An entirely oblivious Alexia that never had any wandering thoughts to be challenged by would not only be made of lesser stuff, but be far less interesting and well-rounded character.


Plus, for those who do like slow burn corruption/NTR, her internal conflict makes her eventual denouement all the sweeter. Insta-sluts in NTR are boring as hell. Alexia is hands down one of the best corruption/NTR foils I know of.

 

[asgardtipar2]

In the past, I've had a good number of debates with people from the aggressively anti-NTR crowd that show up here, some public and some private. But I think I've developed a decent understanding of their mental state.

First of all many of them overly identify with Rowan. If Rowan gets cheated on they feel like they've been cheated on, because in their mind they ARE Rowan. To be fair this is fairly common to all games to an extent due to their interactive nature. You don't say the video game character killed the bad guy, you say I killed the bad guy, you don't say my character died, to say I died. At first I thought that the ability to choose whether or not Alexia had sex with anyone would solve the issue, but it doesn't because of the second element.

Second, they usually have an overly broad definition of NTR and cheating. In fact seeing things from Alexia's perspective seems to make it worse. They get to see Alexia look at someone like Andras and think about how good looking his is wonder what it would be like to have sex with him. So even if she shakes the intrusive thoughts away and reaffirms her commitment to Rowan, to them she is already cheating in her mind. Even if she never acts on it, part of her wanted to. In this way even turning NTR off doesn't help she still gets temped, it just removes the option to give in. Now, I would argue that is a pretty irrational and that people have intrusive thoughts and feel tempted or get urges to do things they shouldn't do all the time. But that is how they feel, and feeling are often irrational. And not every game is a good fit for everyone. So if they feel these ways, this game is probably not for them.

So why are they here complaining about the content of this game? Why are they here instead of in the threads for CuckMaster 3 or some such? I think it is because SoC is a really good porn game. It's art and writing is top their in the field. So people see one of the best games in the genre and they are frustrated that it excludes them. They want to get into it, but the content is just too off putting for them, and it just so frustrating to have to settle for 'lesser' games.

Some of them try to offer legitimates critisim hoping the devs will alter it into something they can enjoy, some of them lash out in thier frustrations, other just act dismissive of the game and the people that enjoy it.

First of all yes.. Everything you said is well said... However you forgot to mention that most of the people that hate on NTR religiously are closeted cucks... They are afraid and angry that they like it, even maybe past the game.. Same as homophobes actually being gay.. Not all of course, some are just retards.

 

[asgardtipar2]

Emphasis mine.

Fucking hell.

That is the most ass-backwards, fucked up, uber-repressive bullshit ever. That reeks of strict childhood indoctrination along regressive religious lines.

If anything being able to resist the temptation of such thoughts is an example of her stronger moral fiber, because she both faced and overcame temptation. You never know the strength of one's moral conviction unless that conviction is challenged. An entirely oblivious Alexia that never had any wandering thoughts to be challenged by would not only be made of lesser stuff, but be far less interesting and well-rounded character.


Plus, for those who do like slow burn corruption/NTR, her internal conflict makes her eventual denouement all the sweeter. Insta-sluts in NTR are boring as hell. Alexia is hands down one of the best corruption/NTR foils I know of.

AMEN BROTHER.. The slow fall of alexia and rowan is done brilliantly in this game. I love it so much.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Love the armchair psychology, today I learned that disliking NTR makes me an indoctrinated religious closeted cuck.
I suppose that's a step up from the usual labeling as insecure, intolerant or boring.

As much as the is there NTR in this game crowd turned into a meme at this point, you guys don't seem much better.

 

[EvolutionKills]

First of all yes.. Everything you said is well said... However you forgot to mention that most of the people that hate on NTR religiously are closeted cucks... They are afraid and angry that they like it, even maybe past the game.. Same as homophobes actually being gay.. Not all of course, some are just retards.

There are also plenty of folks for whom it just isn't there kink, but they're smart enough to just keep quit about it and move on.

Then there are others who don't like all NTR, cause not all NTR is made equally. I personally don't like cuckolding from the perspective of a sad-sack impotent MC, as I don't enjoy sexual humiliation. But I absolutely dig Netori given the right setup (i.e. the antagonist is an asshole that deserves it). I also enjoy corruption and fall-from-grace or gone-too-far setups; like when Anne starts cheating on the MC in The Adventurous Couple (ironically enough, just like SoC, a game where the MC still FUCKS everything else that moves).

But that's something else that a lot of haters don't get. NTR is not synonymous with cuckoldry. It's just that cuckoldry is super easy, whereas creating well fleshed out characters falling into temptation is hard.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Love the armchair psychology, today I learned that disliking NTR makes me an indoctrinated religious closeted cuck.
I suppose that's a step up from the usual labeling as insecure, intolerant or boring.

As much as the is there NTR in this game crowd turned into a meme at this point, you guys don't seem much better.

Hey, if (note for the slow: notice that this is an 'if' statement) you agree that just having kinky thoughts is equivalent to actual adultery, I can't help it if that aligns perfectly with super regressive religious bullshit. I didn't make the religion.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Hey, if (note for the low: notice that this is an 'if' statement) you agree that just having kinky thoughts is equivalent to actual adultery, I can't help it if that aligns perfectly with super regressive religious bullshit. I didn't make the religion.

Let's be absolutely clear here, that premise was cooked up by one of you guys theorizing about what makes NTR haters tick.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Let's be absolutely clear here, that premise was cooked up by one of you guys theorizing about what makes NTR haters tick.

To be clear here, the religious mentality (i.e. 'those who sin in their hearts', a very common Christian belief) is absolutely something that does exist. People out there really do think that. So would it surprise me that someone who held such beliefs didn't like Alexia's internal strife in SoC? Absolutely not. Do all critics think this way? Of fucking course not. But for those who may, it is super regressive religious bullshit, born of those who buy into and perpetuate crap like 'sin'.

Thought crimes are not crimes. Only gods and authoritarian demagogues seem to punish you for them however.

 

[DownTheDrain]

To be clear here, the religious mentality (i.e. 'those who sin in their hearts', a very common Christian belief) is absolutely something that does exist. People out there really do think that. So would it surprise me that someone who held such beliefs didn't like Alexia's internal strife in SoC? Absolutely not. Do all critics think this way? Of fucking course not. But for those who may, it is super regressive religious bullshit, born of those who buy into and perpetuate crap like 'sin'.

2 things...

First of all, fuck organized religion. With a rake.

Secondly and more importantly, I have never heard anyone express that they hate NTR in games because of their religious upbringing or because it taints their ever so immortal soul. You guys are literally the first people that brought that up and I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.
We're talking about adult games here, if the mere thought of sinning crosses a line you wouldn't even make it out of the intro without risking eternal damnation.

 

[asgardtipar2]

Let's be absolutely clear here, that premise was cooked up by one of you guys theorizing about what makes NTR haters tick.

I didn't gen.. but I did said a lot of cases are like that.. If you found yourself there.. well your words not mine.

 

[asgardtipar2]

Also why y'all bringing in religion into this.. Its porn game.... Please don't bring Jesus into this.. Hasn't he suffered enough lmao...

 

[EvolutionKills]

2 things...

First of all, fuck organized religion. With a rake.

Secondly and more importantly, I have never heard anyone express that they hate NTR in games because of their religious upbringing or because it taints their ever so immortal soul. You guys are literally the first people that brought that up and I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.
We're talking about adult games here, if the mere thought of sinning crosses a line you wouldn't even make it out of the intro without risking eternal damnation.

Murder is a sin. Very religious people commit murder all the time. They also get caught soliciting prostitutes' often enough. As it turns out, the idea itself isn't a 100% effective control measure for human action (also the idea of asking your imaginary friend for absolution is counter-productive to the whole endeavor). So no, I wouldn't put it past someone who happened to have grown up in that type of environment to be lurking around her perving on digital tiddies.

Not only that, but religious norms and customs do have influence outside of their stick congregations (not everyone who believes in reincarnation is a strict Hindu/Budhist/Sikh). So the idea of 'thought crime' is not limited to just the religiously fundamentalist, but the idea itself has its roots in regressive religious beliefs like 'sin'.

Also, not everyone consciously known why they like or don't like certain things. Most people don't bother with the deep dive introspection and exploration of the 'why' cause for most people in most circumstances it really doesn't matter. At the end of the day, what kinks you enjoy in an indie porn game is the height of inconsequential. So how many of those who don't like a particular kink bother to think about it beyond that point? Few and far between. But, just cause someone doesn't actively acknowledge a reasons, doesn't mean there isn't various subconscious factors affecting that decision.

For example, how many people play and love free-to-play phone games (e.g. Candy Crush), versus how many people who know that they simply like progress and watching number go up/get bigger, versus the even smaller group who understand what a Skinner Box is and how those games are designed to deliver a steady drip of dopamine. Just cause you don't know what a Skinner Box is, doesn't mean it isn't working on you if you happen to enjoy that type of experience.

So, do I know that 'thought crime' is a possible underlying cause for not liking Alexia's corruption narrative? No. I'm not a behavioral psychologist. But, does it make sense as one potential possibility, one that happens to be rooted in regressive religious beliefs? Yeah, it makes sense to me.

Also, fuck organized religion. With a rake.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

Let's be absolutely clear here, that premise was cooked up by one of you guys theorizing about what makes NTR haters tick.

Just to be clear I didn't just cook this idea up, it's came from multiple conversations I've had with people on this very topic. I'm not going to post my DMs because that's kind of a shitty thing to do, but this one happened in public so here your go: https://f95zone.to/threads/seeds-of-chaos-v0-3-07c-venus-noire.26/post-8125150

Love the armchair psychology, today I learned that disliking NTR makes me an indoctrinated religious closeted cuck.
I suppose that's a step up from the usual labeling as insecure, intolerant or boring.

As much as the is there NTR in this game crowd turned into a meme at this point, you guys don't seem much better.

I would also like to clarify that I'm NOT claiming that people who don't like NTR are closeted cucks. Some of them might be, I don't know, and wouldn't care if they were. But most the time people just don't like something and that is perfectly okay. And there are certainly different levels of dislike. For example, I don't care for gay content. I don't have anything against it and I don't mind if it is an option in my game, but I won't be playing any games where it is a primary focus. I really don't like water sports, but I'll push through if it otherwise has really good content and if it isn't too prevalent. I hate scat, it makes me nauseous, and I will instantly nope the fuck out. But like most people, and I include most people that don't like NTR in this, I don't feel the need to go and complain on their forums about the game including content I don't like, or to try to convince them to change the game to better fit my tastes. I feel like the people that feel the need to do this have something else going on with them.

Emphasis mine.

Fucking hell.

That is the most ass-backwards, fucked up, uber-repressive bullshit ever. That reeks of strict childhood indoctrination along regressive religious lines.

If anything being able to resist the temptation of such thoughts is an example of her stronger moral fiber, because she both faced and overcame temptation. You never know the strength of one's moral conviction unless that conviction is challenged. An entirely oblivious Alexia that never had any wandering thoughts to be challenged by would not only be made of lesser stuff, but be far less interesting and well-rounded character.


Plus, for those who do like slow burn corruption/NTR, her internal conflict makes her eventual denouement all the sweeter. Insta-sluts in NTR are boring as hell. Alexia is hands down one of the best corruption/NTR foils I know of.

To be clear here, the religious mentality (i.e. 'those who sin in their hearts', a very common Christian belief) is absolutely something that does exist. People out there really do think that. So would it surprise me that someone who held such beliefs didn't like Alexia's internal strife in SoC? Absolutely not. Do all critics think this way? Of fucking course not. But for those who may, it is super regressive religious bullshit, born of those who buy into and perpetuate crap like 'sin'.

Thought crimes are not crimes. Only gods and authoritarian demagogues seem to punish you for them however.

2 things...

First of all, fuck organized religion. With a rake.

Secondly and more importantly, I have never heard anyone express that they hate NTR in games because of their religious upbringing or because it taints their ever so immortal soul. You guys are literally the first people that brought that up and I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.
We're talking about adult games here, if the mere thought of sinning crosses a line you wouldn't even make it out of the intro without risking eternal damnation.

Murder is a sin. Very religious people commit murder all the time. They also get caught soliciting prostitutes' often enough. As it turns out, the idea itself isn't a 100% effective control measure for human action (also the idea of asking your imaginary friend for absolution is counter-productive to the whole endeavor). So no, I wouldn't put it past someone who happened to have grown up in that type of environment to be lurking around her perving on digital tiddies.

Not only that, but religious norms and customs do have influence outside of their stick congregations (not everyone who believes in reincarnation is a strict Hindu/Budhist/Sikh). So the idea of 'thought crime' is not limited to just the religiously fundamentalist, but the idea itself has its roots in regressive religious beliefs like 'sin'.

Also, not everyone consciously known why they like or don't like certain things. Most people don't bother with the deep dive introspection and exploration of the 'why' cause for most people in most circumstances it really doesn't matter. At the end of the day, what kinks you enjoy in an indie porn game is the height of inconsequential. So how many of those who don't like a particular kink bother to think about it beyond that point? Few and far between. But, just cause someone doesn't actively acknowledge a reasons, doesn't mean there isn't various subconscious factors affecting that decision.

For example, how many people play and love free-to-play phone games (e.g. Candy Crush), versus how many people who know that they simply like progress and watching number go up/get bigger, versus the even smaller group who understand what a Skinner Box is and how those games are designed to deliver a steady drip of dopamine. Just cause you don't know what a Skinner Box is, doesn't mean it isn't working on you if you happen to enjoy that type of experience.

So, do I know that 'thought crime' is a possible underlying cause for not liking Alexia's corruption narrative? No. I'm not a behavioral psychologist. But, does it make sense as one potential possibility, one that happens to be rooted in regressive religious beliefs? Yeah, it makes sense to me.

I grew up in a very religious household. Luckily, these days my parents have calmed down on the religious stuff, and I've become mostly agnostic myself. But in my teens I struggled quite a bit with my interest in pornography and my religious beliefs, keep in mind that this was in the very early days on the internet and pornography was a lot more challenging to get a hold of if you were under age.

I went through a phase were I would manage to acquire some pornography, make use of it for awhile, but then in a moment of post nut clarity I would be overcome by guilt and shame and I wold destroy my meager collection and vow to never look at pornography again. But then time would pass, and I'd get horny and I would start really wanting some porn again, so I would start building up a collection again. Rinse and repeat dozens of times. Ironically, as the internet spread and I learned about hentai and such I got really into demon sex for a while, probably due to being so much more taboo, which in turn would make me feel even more guilty for getting off to it, which is probably the root of why I tend to really like corruption style content to this day.

My point is there is definitely something to getting off to something you feel like you shouldn't and then feeling great guilt and shame that you did. Once again I'm not saying it is everyone, or even most of them, but it is certainly some of them. And I know from experience that it is a hell of a thing to go through. And it doesn't even have to be religious based. Culture and society as a whole also tells us what sort of things we should or shouldn't be into. It also isn't just about sex, also in my teens I had a "friend" who was a jock whatever the seasonal sport was he was always on the team. He was also part of our weekly D&D group, but he made us promise not to tell any one at school and would pretend not to know us in public. He was one of the cool kids, so he wasn't supposed to be into all this wizards and dragons shit...but he was, and he couldn't get it from his cool friends, so he hung out with us in secret even though he was embarrassed to do so.

 

[Rein]

Spoiler: Scene

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)Okay, this may have been one of the hottest scenes I've experienced in an adult game to date. Whomever wrote this, hats off you to. And Sommy/MDN, wow. Just wow.

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[fuckyourspoilerrestrictio]

Very cool that the thread is being derailed with r/atheism fedora tipping. Operating under the assumption that anyone who doesn't enjoy your fetish must be an evil religious zealot is quite the insane worldview.