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mehGusta

Member
Aug 28, 2017
375
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i mean i like the general theme of not having unwilling sex partners. as funny as it sounds, "consent" is the biggest kink i have (but that's mostly because it's always related to other kinks i like, like corruption, sharing and cucking).
but SoC has no rape?
there are multiple instance of implied rape and lots of cases that would be definitely ruled as rape under today's jurisdiction. i've no problem to say that it's on the fringe enough to not count.
however on the sacking of rastedel, we see actual rape happening.

to SoC rape is not a vital part and it never happens to any main character, yes, and i don't want it either. but to say it has no rape, is just not true.
 

Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
398
987
i mean i like the general theme of not having unwilling sex partners. as funny as it sounds, "consent" is the biggest kink i have (but that's mostly because it's always related to other kinks i like, like corruption, sharing and cucking).
but SoC has no rape?
there are multiple instance of implied rape and lots of cases that would be definitely ruled as rape under today's jurisdiction. i've no problem to say that it's on the fringe enough to not count.
however on the sacking of rastedel, we see actual rape happening.

to SoC rape is not a vital part and it never happens to any main character, yes, and i don't want it either. but to say it has no rape, is just not true.
During Rastedel, they are careful to mention that there are cubi flying around spreading lustful energies, causing everyone to fuck each other. Therefor the citizens are largely overcome by lust and are participating "willingly."

RastedelScene.jpg

Of course in modern times this would still be considered rape, for the same reason having sex with a drunk or drugged person is still considered rape even if they were "willing" at the time. Not to mention the power dynamics at play as noted earlier in the discussion. But it isn't rape in the violent, pin you down, and force you sort of way, which seems to be enough to skirt by. Now, I doubt any of these orcs would have taken "no" for an answer. But thanks to cubi magic they don't have to.
 

Oriandu

Engaged Member
Sep 1, 2017
2,821
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I don't think you can reasonably argue that the orgies during the conquering of Rastodel at the fort at the start are not rape. We know at the very least the threat of violence is looming, we know coercion is involved, we know that in many of the cases the ability to grant consent has been removed. It does definitely skirt by the rules by not being directly depicted, but it would quite honestly be ignorant for Patreon to enforce rules that make it seem like real world tragedies and victimization does not exist, so I would say this kind of thing is a situation where leeway may be specifically and purposefully given.
 
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T51bwinterized

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Oct 17, 2017
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This is another semantics debate. We're really just debating about a word. In modern culture, there is a deeply heated argument about the definition of the word "Rape".

Does the word apply to all instances of sex where there the level of consent does not reach the standard set by the speaker? Does it only refer to a specific type of non-consensual sex defined by direct force?

Does it apply to situations without direct violence or force but where there was diminished capacity? Does it apply to situations without direct violence or force, but there was some kind of non-violent compulsion like blackmail? What about situations where there is not directly coerced consent, but it happens within a power dynamic that allows one party to dictate terms?

I think that:

A: Regardless of what semantic definition you choose, you should personally try to follow the principles of , and be mindful of situations where a partner may have diminished consent. This is the approach I always advise when it comes to sexual ethics or when I've taught classes on the subject. The best way to avoid the entire messiness of crossing the line unthinkingly is to just always be well above the bare minimum of consent requirements. I'm in BDSM, where sexual contract negotiation is actually very common. But, as much as it's mocked outside of BDSM, it's actually good practice.

B: You should not get your sexual ethics from a hentai game. Don't. Seeds of Chaos is not a role model of actual ethical sexual conduct.

C: It is clearly true that the game has situations where the ability of cast members to consent to sex is diminished to some degree. We interpret this as allowed by the rules, as Patreon clearly seeks identifiable and clear rule boundaries. For this reason, our specific policy is to make an effort to avoid DEPICTING ON-SCREEN instances of FORCEFUL Rape.

Anything beyond those points is just arguing about the definition of words. But, that's mostly stupid because Rape means whatever the speaker defines the word to mean. People just shift the definitions a lot because it's a word with loaded connotation and real world legal effects, that may or may not apply depending on what definition you're using.

The actual choosing of where the "Rape Line" is mostly has connotative effects. If two actions are described identically to a listener, and one is called "Rape" and one is called "Nonconsensual Sex", the listener will perceive the one described as Rape worse. At it's best, it serves as a means to QUICKLY AND CLEARLY identify the severity of an action in a case of unambiguous application. At it's worst the definition can be used as a tool of obfuscation. But, do not confuse the semantics with the ethics. An action is just as unethical if you define it as rape or not rape. It is unethical in it's content not in it's description.

So please. Less semantics.
 
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ozzo

Active Member
Mar 4, 2018
500
1,638
New topic idea: Non sexual sceene you want to see
I would live a "expecting mothers course" as part of the fertility treatment and it would involve Delaine and Emma (Delaine would like to have another human as handmaiden or something) if you are on the Ulcro path. Emma would have given birth at that point and Delaine would be expecting. They would be talking to Alexia about the feeling of being pregnant and so on. Not sure who you could swap in if not on Ulcro path. Cla-min i guess would be the logical choice
 

Carefree247

Member
May 24, 2019
310
638
With regards to various characters in Act 1 you mostly get a better understanding of them and know which path to take but for the longest time Cliohna has alluded my understanding, from what I could gather she despises the stagnation and prohibition the force of order pushes(werden is perfect example of all that) as such she's different from others that she does not fully side with chaos but uses them to get what she wants, now from her quest I feel it's incomplete as I'm left with more question than answers compared to the other characters.

Jynx_lucky_j and monk_56 mind helping me understand since you've played the game more than me.
 
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Nym85

Active Member
Dec 15, 2018
529
632
In game one yes- and they are not mutually exclusive. The timing of doing both in a single play-through might be tight; especially if you do one of the more time consumptive Orcaide routes. Presumably in game two there will be more faction recruitment narratives. I'd love to recruit some more High elves myself.
Oh has there been a clarification by the devs that goblin and orc plots are not mutually exclusive? I keep asking but didn't get an answer. Maybe I missed it:(
 

T51bwinterized

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Oct 17, 2017
1,456
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Oh has there been a clarification by the devs that goblin and orc plots are not mutually exclusive? I keep asking but didn't get an answer. Maybe I missed it:(
We don't intend them to be. We haven't worked out all the specifics. One of our current goals is trying to figure out how long it takes to recruit the goblins, so we can account how easy/plausible double recruitment playthrough are.
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
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With regards to various characters in Act 1 you mostly get a better understanding of them and know which path to take but for the longest time Cliohna has alluded my understanding, from what I could gather she despises the stagnation and prohibition the force of order pushes(werden is perfect example of all that) as such she's different from others that she does not fully side with chaos but uses them to get what she wants, now from her quest I feel it's incomplete as I'm left with more question than answers compared to the other characters.

Jynx_lucky_j and monk_56 mind helping me understand since you've played the game more than me.
Cliohna is very mysterious. From my understanding she is a very powerful mage but probably still human, but also very old, most likely maintaining her youth through magic. She serves chaos in that her goal are more aligned with chaos than with order, but she isn't exactly a follower of Kharos. She serves the twins in exchange for access to Castle Bloodmeen and it's library. I got the impression that she was looking for something specific and once she finds it her deal with the twins will be concluded. She is at least powerful enough to give that the twins cannot command her directly instead they have to deal with her as a near equal. Though Jezera does enjoy teasing or annoying her on occasion. There will certainly be more revealed about Cliohna in future acts, but as far as the current act is concerned her story is mostly complete.
 

monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
677
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With regards to various characters in Act 1 you mostly get a better understanding of them and know which path to take but for the longest time Cliohna has alluded my understanding, from what I could gather she despises the stagnation and prohibition the force of order pushes(werden is perfect example of all that) as such she's different from others that she does not fully side with chaos but uses them to get what she wants, now from her quest I feel it's incomplete as I'm left with more question than answers compared to the other characters.

Jynx_lucky_j and monk_56 mind helping me understand since you've played the game more than me.
1) Response to Carefree's question about Cilionia:

Cilonia is legitimately interesting. Take the sub route or dom route with her don't go equal- I imagine they will both have some decent content so choose w/e vibe you like.

If you are looking for the best lore dump in game one though- go for the Sub route.

Rein is a big fan of fem-dom so that pathing is quite a bit more fleshed out and interesting in game one - many of the route options in some of the follow up conversations on the fem-dom side are great sources of lore on Cilonia.

I'll give you one of the more interesting segments from it to ponder over. This path happens if you submit to her in the initial pathing- but refuse her in the follow up submission event.

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Cilonia's plot is neglected sadly- so I probably wont find out more for years. If I have the patience to put up with the constant disproportionately high saturation of cuckoldry and non-con content at any rate.

2) Disappointed comment on recent Patreon Rowan x Alexia art.

As long as we are talking about Rein's work. The new art for the pregnancy treatment was very disappointing. I'm so sick of Rowan being artistically rendered as a fucking femboy in content with his wife. Why the hell is he so small? Who the heck finds it hot that he is tiny? Meh. Nasim's magic looked cool, and Nasims face in the second CG was absolutely hilarious, and Alexia was hot- but the art for Rowan was ass. Game goes out of its way to make him look like a bitch. Kinda tired of being a smol lad in SoC and it makes me wonder if Rowan will EVER not be; love the plot- but the sexual content continues to be disappointing. Starting to think I'm wasting my bones on the game.
 
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fihesog318

Member
Jul 6, 2020
149
728
2) Disappointed comment on recent Patreon Rowan x Alexia art.

As long as we are talking about Rein's work. The new art for the pregnancy treatment was very disappointing. I'm so sick of Rowan being artistically rendered as a fucking femboy in content with his wife. Why the hell is he so small- and like who the heck finds it hot that he is tiny. Meh. Nasim's magic looked cool, and Nasims face in the second CG was absolutely hilarious, and Alexia was hot- but the art for Rowan was ass. Game goes out of its way to make him look like a bitch. Kinda tired of being a twink in SoC and it makes me wonder if Rowan will EVER not be; love the plot- but the sexual content continues to be disappointing. Starting to think I'm wasting my bones on the game.
I did not understand this. Are you saying based on the perspective of the image Rowan looks physically small: meaning short and without muscles?
 

Oriandu

Engaged Member
Sep 1, 2017
2,821
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I did not understand this. Are you saying based on the perspective of the image Rowan looks physically small: meaning short and without muscles?
Usually when someone is referred to as such it's less about being short and lacking muscles and being feminine. Having not seen the image myself, it may have something to do with Rowan looking more slender and having softer features. Dunno, also don't really care considering the word "twink" was used as a descriptor. Typically such language leads me to ignore the opinion of the person using it.
 
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NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Rowan's build is something of a delicate subject because he has to kind of be a cipher that would be found attractive as both a dominant and submissive straight/gay love interest. This means that he has a tendency to be drawn as Joe Average compared to more exaggerated characters around him. Alexia suffers from much of the same aesthetic choices, which makes them appear to be familiarly related. Well, they both came from the same small village so they are probably at least 2nd cousins.
 
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monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
677
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He is so fucking tiny and boring looking. With the exception of a hand full of scenes that portray him more positvely- the only times his scenes are consistently hot is when he is paired up with some miniature race like goblins or elves. Most of men in the game make him look like Pee-Wee fuckin' Herman. I don't see why he needs to be small in his hetero scenes with his wife- why can't he look good? It is to serve the cuckold plots? Fuck....leave that shit for him getting topped or fem-dom or whatever.

Its the main protagonist- but there is so little in the game that actually feels like "winning" unless you like losing, getting shit on, being degraded, being small and weak, and being a sub.

Will we ever get content that feels like an actual overlord path? Where he feels powerful? In control? Large? Virile? Dominant?

Or will he be this pedestrian, undersized, compromised, cucked bitch until the end of game 3? My wallet demands to know.
 
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NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Rowan's fragility fits the story. He was basically the party rogue in a D&D adventuring company that was full of super-buff warriors and powerful magic users. He was targeted by the twins because he was physically the weak link but hung with the big dogs because of his cunning. If he looked like Conan the Barbarian he wouldn't fit the mold of his own story because he is more like Phillippe the Mouse from Ladyhawke.
 

monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
677
2,829
Enhance your calm, dude. We understand where you are coming from, but Rowan's fragility fits the story. He was basically the party rogue in a D&D adventuring company that was full of super-buff warriors and powerful magic users. He was targeted by the twins because he was physically the weak link but hung with the big dogs because of his cunning. If he looked like Conan the Barbarian he wouldn't fit the mold of his own story because he is more like Phillippe the Mouse from Ladyhawke.
Your point is obviously right- Rowan should not look like Conan- but it is a hyperbolic straw-man argument vs the concept that Rowan is portrayed too weakly.

There is a TON of wiggle room between how Rowan is portrayed and Conan the Barbarian.

Rowan could easily be portrayed as larger and more powerful and still suit the vibe of the SoC plot just as well.
There is no reason for him to look smaller or the same size as his wife (who is supposed to be quite petite herself) in CGS.

Secondly, the plot isn't stagnant. Why should Rowan wallow in weakness, smallness, cuckoldry, and being dominated for most of the entire story just because it is "what made sense" at the beginning of the story. This is a magical world, full of strange things, body changes, miracles, magics ect ect.

The one and only reason Rowan stays a pedestrian, undersized, compromised, cucked bitch until the end of game 3 is because the Devs choose for that to be the plot or how to artistically represent Rowan. People were complaining about this 5 years ago and they mostly seemed to lose interest in the game- guess I'm carrying the torch.
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
398
987
I can understand the complaints about Rowans appearance, even if I don't fully agree with them. I won't link the latest pictures until the update is released out of respect for the Patreon exclusivity. but I think I can make my point with existing art just as well.

First things first as much as I love the art of this game, I must admit that characters are not always super consistent scene to scene. However generally speaking once Rowan has his shirt off you can see he is actually fairly buff.
RoxHel 1.png

But when he is clothed he often looks skinnier.
roxhel bed 8.png

Also Rowan doesn't generally have a super masculine face. Personally I would describe him a boyish, but I can see how someone would say effeminate instead.
RoxJez VR 8.png roxal desk 4.png

I can't remember the other artist besides Sommlier but his art definitely depicted a very different looking Rowan which may contribute to some of the more long term player's opinions of him looking like a "bitch"
DazzxRo 1.png RoxOrcWoman 4.png
These older artworks are gradually being reworked to give the game a consistent aesthetic, and there are not many left.

----

As for Rowan taking control of his situation... This is still the first Act. If this was a movie we would still be in the fist 30 minutes. Even Conan the Barbarian was still a slave with no hope for escape at this point in his movie. I expect to see Rowan start to gain more control and take action in the second act. I understand that it can be frustrating because due to poor planning in the past, the devs have a lot of catching up to do before they can really advance anything meaningful for our main characters. But understand that until the main story progresses past Reastedel none of the new side content can progress Rowan past the point he is currently at. If it gets too frustrating in might be worth considering taking an extended break rather than playing every new update.
 
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