Ren'Py Sexbot Restoration 2124 [v0.14.2] [squirrel24]

[dollydollzy]

Been enjoying the game so far. Thanks for keeping this game alive.
Mob quest is fun and easy to do but I only play on hard (not hardcore)
I still have a lot of comments about how the game should be but I will keep these comments to myself.
I don't know if you are still tweaking reputation. If you are, then these are my thoughts.
Reputation gain is fine, it seems to progress approximately at the same rate as everything else.
However, I don't know if it has any impact at all because by the time it makes any difference you already paid the debt and swimming in money.
As long as base income is the same as before and reputation is only a "bonus" income, I feel like it made no difference to the early game, made the mid game easier, and the late game super cruise.
For example, the 18th birthday online offer is still 100k base and intimidating male is still 200k base. (reputation still F)
I assume the reputation bonus is additional sell value and not percentage increase. The club offers are 50800.
Am I correct in this assumption?
Funny story, I found brutus with S combat on day 2, learned a lot of combat from him, installed F and D components, then sold him for 200k, and then restarted the run (not fun when too easy)
I still have no idea how half the game works. Like power cores!! The power usage system is not implemented yet. I assumed it had something with stability when I started playing a while back but I was wrong.
Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Hermenegild]

'sr24.rpa' is 80% of the game (1.08 GB out of 1.35 GB) so there would be little value in calling it a "patch". I appreciate the issue but I have no plans to fix it. I know large downloads are a pain but there are lots of games far bigger than this one.

What you could do is to package the scripts (*.rpy files) into a separate scripts.rpa file. This way, unless the patch changes anything beyond the scripts (which should be relatively rare, the bugs are in the scripts usually), this fixed scripts.rpa could work as a patch.

Or you could go and stop packaging the game into this huge and unwieldy .rpa file, as ultimately having it there gives you nothing. To be honest, the first thing I do after I unpack the game is to run rpaextract on it.

 

[ertdfg313]

Is there any way to know which bot models are good at particular roles?

AGRX-10 (yes the class D) is best bot for all roles if you're keeping them... and I'm only slightly kidding.
.5 (50%) psychocore loss .5 (50%) damage from combat/sex and 75%-100% xp gain in all skills.
(75% tech, 85% combat, 100% sex/social) so few downsides across the board (which is rare).

If this was IRL I wouldn't have the "one of each female bot" I have now.
I'd have 8-9 of the AGRX-10 and one A or S class for the few things where bot class matters.

Aside from that psychocore instability is from xp gain working... so lower their XP gain once they're trained.
F class CPU and/or bad traits in the skill they're using can really change how much stability they lose (and doesn't seem to affect work output)... or just hack away the good traits (if it isn't inherent).
I generally do NOT have tech bots doing tech roles as they gain XP faster doing that and require more stabilizing... weird as that sounds.
So it takes another day to train up to A/A Electrical/Mechanical for my AGRX-10?
Give her an F class CPU and the 20K (level 2) upgrade after training is done and she'll do 2 jobs forever without issue (maybe 3 if you train her up far enough).

Just remember use training parts when gaining skill (best CPU, etc.) and swap down when you're done.
Lower CPU has lower maximum possible autonomy (which will cause lower # of jobs they can have).
Swapping down later does not affect their autonomy.

 

[ertdfg313]

I assume the reputation bonus is additional sell value and not percentage increase. The club offers are 50800.
Am I correct in this assumption?

Yep, D class bot trainer C class combat bot trainer and the 200K finally lets me sell for... 220.
It has increased 3 times I think to get me to 10% boosted, it's a bit slow (but it's not nothing and does go up).
My techbots sell for a couple grand over 80K not 75 as well.

Note, you do need to boost value high enough to be worth 220K (or whatever)...
A 140K value Combat bot would still sell for 140K and see no boost. It doesn't increase what you sell for, just the cap raises.
Train that combat skill up to A on your CMT-24 and you're over cap (so far at least) and selling for max.
(or get better bots at the dump, as higher bot class has more value with lower skill?)

 

[Daskar69]

For combat bots, I find you get way more for them if you sell them to the fighting organization, as opposed to the graynet. I have 4 Brutus S-class bots, S class combat, with offers from 300k to 900k. The more they win, the more the offer. I don't know how winning is calculated though. Each bot has S tier parts, S tier skills, and yet they perform radically different.

Elmo is 28-7. Bert is 18-15, Ernie is 17-16, and Big Bird is 7-20.

I don't know if part quality matters for tech bots, but I have 7 of them with S level Mechanical and Electrical. So the combat bots are always at 100%, and I have them in tier 4 beds, so they don't need much mental maintenance.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

AGRX-10 (yes the class D) is best bot for all roles if you're keeping them... and I'm only slightly kidding.
.5 (50%) psychocore loss .5 (50%) damage from combat/sex and 75%-100% xp gain in all skills.
(75% tech, 85% combat, 100% sex/social) so few downsides across the board (which is rare).

If this was IRL I wouldn't have the "one of each female bot" I have now.
I'd have 8-9 of the AGRX-10 and one A or S class for the few things where bot class matters.

Aside from that psychocore instability is from xp gain working... so lower their XP gain once they're trained.
F class CPU and/or bad traits in the skill they're using can really change how much stability they lose (and doesn't seem to affect work output)... or just hack away the good traits (if it isn't inherent).
I generally do NOT have tech bots doing tech roles as they gain XP faster doing that and require more stabilizing... weird as that sounds.
So it takes another day to train up to A/A Electrical/Mechanical for my AGRX-10?
Give her an F class CPU and the 20K (level 2) upgrade after training is done and she'll do 2 jobs forever without issue (maybe 3 if you train her up far enough).

Just remember use training parts when gaining skill (best CPU, etc.) and swap down when you're done.
Lower CPU has lower maximum possible autonomy (which will cause lower # of jobs they can have).
Swapping down later does not affect their autonomy.

Oh wow... that actually makes sense. That's exactly what I experienced. Totally counter-intuitive though.
This means that all the good traits and good CPU's make the bot worse.

Connecting Psychocore stability to xp gain sucks, since bots can still gain xp, even if they are fully trained.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

AGRX-10 (yes the class D) is best bot for all roles if you're keeping them... and I'm only slightly kidding.
.5 (50%) psychocore loss .5 (50%) damage from combat/sex and 75%-100% xp gain in all skills.
(75% tech, 85% combat, 100% sex/social) so few downsides across the board (which is rare).

If this was IRL I wouldn't have the "one of each female bot" I have now.
I'd have 8-9 of the AGRX-10 and one A or S class for the few things where bot class matters.

Aside from that psychocore instability is from xp gain working... so lower their XP gain once they're trained.
F class CPU and/or bad traits in the skill they're using can really change how much stability they lose (and doesn't seem to affect work output)... or just hack away the good traits (if it isn't inherent).
I generally do NOT have tech bots doing tech roles as they gain XP faster doing that and require more stabilizing... weird as that sounds.
So it takes another day to train up to A/A Electrical/Mechanical for my AGRX-10?
Give her an F class CPU and the 20K (level 2) upgrade after training is done and she'll do 2 jobs forever without issue (maybe 3 if you train her up far enough).

Just remember use training parts when gaining skill (best CPU, etc.) and swap down when you're done.
Lower CPU has lower maximum possible autonomy (which will cause lower # of jobs they can have).
Swapping down later does not affect their autonomy.

Thanks. That was it. I removed all the positive traits and switched the CPU to the cheapest one. The bots basically dont gain any xp from their roles now which drastically reduces Psychocore deterioration.

 

[squirrel24]

What you could do is to package the scripts (*.rpy files) into a separate scripts.rpa file. This way, unless the patch changes anything beyond the scripts (which should be relatively rare, the bugs are in the scripts usually), this fixed scripts.rpa could work as a patch.

Or you could go and stop packaging the game into this huge and unwieldy .rpa file, as ultimately having it there gives you nothing. To be honest, the first thing I do after I unpack the game is to run rpaextract on it.

All of this does not matter to me. I build in the default way and have no plan to change this. If you want to change the game please use the freely available source code to make your own game however you'd like it to be. The split between files in the mod folder and files in the rpa file is left over from Radnor and if I do anything it will be to put everything in the rpa file. Radnor wanted his game to be co-authored by mod authors but I do not care about this. I try not to break the mods that exist but I won't do more than that.

 

[squirrel24]

Oh wow... that actually makes sense. That's exactly what I experienced. Totally counter-intuitive though.
This means that all the good traits and good CPU's make the bot worse.

Connecting Psychocore stability to xp gain sucks, since bots can still gain xp, even if they are fully trained.

Many players are obsessed with the details about maxed out bots. Unfortunately this was not considered when Radnor designed the training system which I've pretty much left alone. Enjoy the workarounds/optimizations you've discovered, they will probably stay that way because fixing these strange behaviors isn't important to me. It isn't difficult to set up your shop to be run primarily by bots without using your workarounds/optimizations but I'll admit it is easier doing it that way. Have fun!

 

[squirrel24]

I won't really do this but I'm tempted to make a "random event" where a "Mission Impossible" team infiltrates your shop and steals all maxed out bots. That way obsessed players will have to learn how NOT to max out their bots. If they figure out how to do that then maybe I'll put in another "random event" where they steal all your bots! Sorry, bad joke but I couldn't resist.

Maybe they will notice your reputation and steal the bots maxed in skills where your reputation is too good! Sorry, these things would be much more fun than fixing the training quirks.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

Many players are obsessed with the details about maxed out bots. Unfortunately this was not considered when Radnor designed the training system which I've pretty much left alone. Enjoy the workarounds/optimizations you've discovered, they will probably stay that way because fixing these strange behaviors isn't important to me. It isn't difficult to set up your shop to be run primarily by bots without using your workarounds/optimizations but I'll admit it is easier doing it that way. Have fun!

Thank you.

Maxed out traits + Centric XT just provides a lot of xp. Just removing the traits is probably more than enough. Dont worry about it.
If you actually have time to change something, include more bot models... or more bot interactions with some nice pictures.

I won't really do this but I'm tempted to make a "random event" where a "Mission Impossible" team infiltrates your shop and steals all maxed out bots. That way obsessed players will have to learn how NOT to max out their bots. If they figure out how to do that then maybe I'll put in another "random event" where they steal all your bots! Sorry, bad joke but I couldn't resist.

Yooo... that's mean.

 

[squirrel24]

Thank you.

Maxed out traits + Centric XT just provides a lot of xp. Just removing the traits is probably more than enough. Dont worry about it.
If you actually have time to change something, include more bot models... or more bot interactions with some nice pictures.





Yooo... that's mean.

Believe it or not the only thing I did to training is REDUCE the xp gains when a bot has S skill. It used to be twice as bad. There are always quirks when you reach the end of something that wasn't designed expecting people to actually reach the end.

 

[squirrel24]

After sleeping on this I realize this situation should be changed. Not sure how I'll do this yet but even maxed out bots will lose some amount of stability whenever they carry out activities. This will always be the case in this game, in my mind this is the price paid when bots have to deal with illogical, emotional, and fragile humans. The only way bots will remain 100% stable all the time is if they do nothing.

 

[AkiranGaming]

After sleeping on this I realize this situation should be changed. Not sure how I'll do this yet but even maxed out bots will lose some amount of stability whenever they carry out activities. This will always be the case in this game, in my mind this is the price paid when bots have to deal with illogical, emotional, and fragile humans. The only way bots will remain 100% stable all the time is if they do nothing.

I agree, artificial lifeform instability is the plot of many great movies and tv shows, like Blade Runner or the BBC series Humans, and makes sense, but hopefully you can try to stay focused on your storyline updates more, since QoL changes are clearly more polarizing.

 

[Evangelion-01]

After sleeping on this I realize this situation should be changed. Not sure how I'll do this yet but even maxed out bots will lose some amount of stability whenever they carry out activities. This will always be the case in this game, in my mind this is the price paid when bots have to deal with illogical, emotional, and fragile humans. The only way bots will remain 100% stable all the time is if they do nothing.

I mean it would help if your bots wouldn't suddenly get an Exp boost of 10-20 k in one of their tasks when Level S 100%
I get your reasoning but these extreme exp gains are what is bothersome.
I don't mind haveing to spend a shift stabilizing bots hard at work, but doing it for an entire day because of these exp spikes is annoying in it's own regard.
And yeah this doesn't fit with your reasoning in my opinion.
I like the game for scavangeing, than building bots... not to keep them stabilized so they can do some tasks and free up my time... which I am forced to spend stabilizing them so I don't win anything from haveing a group of well trained bots for their respective tasks.

 

[squirrel24]

I mean it would help if your bots wouldn't suddenly get an Exp boost of 10-20 k in one of their tasks when Level S 100%
I get your reasoning but these extreme exp gains are what is bothersome.
I don't mind haveing to spend a shift stabilizing bots hard at work, but doing it for an entire day because of these exp spikes is annoying in it's own regard.
And yeah this doesn't fit with your reasoning in my opinion.
I like the game for scavangeing, than building bots... not to keep them stabilized so they can do some tasks and free up my time... which I am forced to spend stabilizing them so I don't win anything from haveing a group of well trained bots for their respective tasks.

Agreed, my change TBD will reduce the very large stability drops. My comment was misleading, I meant to say that it would be reduced but will never be zero.

 

[Melody Is Dead]

Agreed, my change TBD will reduce the very large stability drops. My comment was misleading, I meant to say that it would be reduced but will never be zero.

Idk... it's really not a problem without the traits. The issue is that everything - the whole gameplay loop - is focused around gaining xp. That means that a lot of it does not make sense anymore once a bot a is maxed out.

Having a Tech-Smart++ trait in a bot only has symbolic value. So you remove the trait and it's fine. You were right after all.

Many players are obsessed with the details about maxed out bots. Unfortunately this was not considered when Radnor designed the training system which I've pretty much left alone.

I don't think it makes sense fiddling with the values unless you actually want to change the game significantly.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Idk... it's really not a problem without the traits. The issue is that everything - the whole gameplay loop - is focused around gaining xp. That means that a lot of it does not make sense anymore once a bot a is maxed out.

Having a Tech-Smart++ trait in a bot only has symbolic value. So you remove the trait and it's fine. You were right after all.

I don't think it makes sense fiddling with the values unless you actually want to change the game significantly.

I disagree... the game differenciate with positive and negative traits and many bots have inherent positive traits that cannot be removed.
Your logic might hold a certain value, but IF this is the intended way, there should be no need for traits in the first place.
If there was a single Level for each learning type it might be acceptable but each trait has 3 Levels (positive AND negative).

 

[squirrel24]

Ok, let's take a step back. When a bot does something, actually anything, they may learn from it. The amount of learning is variable. A side effect of learning is destabilization. That's the system, it makes sense, and I'm not changing it. When a bot reaches S level skill there is no longer any positive affect from gaining XP but they continue to do so until they reach100%. When they reach 100% the XP are ignored. As it is now the side effect of destabilization still happens even when the XP are ignored. If the variable amount of XP was large the magnitude of the side effect is large even though the XP did nothing. So thinking about that, what should happen when a maxed out bots has a "learning experience"? They can't gain XP unless I create a "superS" level. Should the learning experience cause destabilization? If so how much? I halved it some time ago, was that enough? Too much? Is a maxed out bot immune to destabilization? Are they so high strung they are more susceptible to destabilization? I will not create a "superS" level because the same thing will happen when you max that level.

It's now back to "if" I make any changes. Saying it's not fair will not influence me, why should it be fair? Life ain't fair. Whining about grind won't matter to me either. In spite of all the whining I know you can make bots run your shop with almost no MC assistance because I've done this during testing. It's down to describing plausible rationale for making a change or leaving it as is. Franky I'm leaning towards "maxed out bots are very high strung and very suspectable to destabilization" and doing nothing. It's not laziness, I think it makes more sense than the opposite of making them immune to destabilization. If anyone presents rationale that is not about "fairness" or "too much grind" I'll listen. If either of those things are included I'll ignore it.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Ok, let's take a step back. When a bot does something, actually anything, they may learn from it. The amount of learning is variable. A side effect of learning is destabilization. That's the system, it makes sense, and I'm not changing it. When a bot reaches S level skill there is no longer any positive affect from gaining XP but they continue to do so until they reach100%. When they reach 100% the XP are ignored. As it is now the side effect of destabilization still happens even when the XP are ignored. If the variable amount of XP was large the magnitude of the side effect is large even though the XP did nothing. So thinking about that, what should happen when a maxed out bots has a "learning experience"? They can't gain XP unless I create a "superS" level. Should the learning experience cause destabilization? If so how much? I halved it some time ago, was that enough? Too much? Is a maxed out bot immune to destabilization? Are they so high strung they are more susceptible to destabilization? I will not create a "superS" level because the same thing will happen when you max that level.

It's now back to "if" I make any changes. Saying it's not fair will not influence me, why should it be fair? Life ain't fair. Whining about grind won't matter to me either. In spite of all the whining I know you can make bots run your shop with almost no MC assistance because I've done this during testing. It's down to describing plausible rationale for making a change or leaving it as is. Franky I'm leaning towards "maxed out bots are very high strung and very suspectable to destabilization" and doing nothing. It's not laziness, I think it makes more sense than the opposite of making them immune to destabilization. If anyone presents rationale that is not about "fairness" or "too much grind" I'll listen. If either of those things are included I'll ignore it.

I get that you don't want to waste time on rebalanceing an existing game mechanic and would rather concentrate to prgress with what is on your mind, but this really is a joykill to many... To put it simple my reason IF you want to go realistic is as follows:

Learning new things is stressfull and getting better requires ALOT of effort and time (training an AI with human logic can cause quiet some destabilizing contradictions which needs to eventually be smoothed out by takeing actions), but once you have reached your capacity limit no ammount of effort or time can progress you any further... sure you could argue that not accepting your limits causes it's own kind of stress, but bots SHOULD be imperial to this notion.
I am not saying to completly remove the stablizing effects but limit it to 1-10% of max core stability (so it's still a bit random) per shift (as you say working any job is stressfull on it's own and customer service related jobs esspecially so, but currently this is not reflected in a realistic mannner)... that way you can be good enough with useing some maintanance and highest grade AI capsules.
One more thing is that you can assign far to many roles to a bot, even a bot can only do this much dureing the day...
I mean being a bed slave to have fun with at night is a free role in my book, but a Bot shouldn't be able to repair bots, clean the place and run the shop in a single time slot IF you want to be realistic.
How to train male bots if Bedroom toy was only a night acitivity? Well this would be the perfect fit in to have a trainer bot which takes that role and give this new mechanic some relevant importance.

Finally... realism is all nice and good, but be aware, that realism is the main source of haveing complicated mechanics and higher workloads on your end, being more vague and just setting some stuff as "it's the future, that's just how things work now" can go a long road to lessen the actual burden.