Tavi13

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Do I think there should be more VN like this? I don't think so. It's a delicate balancing act, but Frank is definitely a change of pace that brings some fresh air.
Agreed 100%. Despite my initial complaints about Franks internal monologues, which are not as bad as they seem whn doing a solid play rather than chapter-by-chapter, I wouldn't change this one at all. Having an MC that is actually human, that has doubts & fears, is a nice change.
Definitely not something I would enjoy as a regular thing, and not something that is easy to create, but (personally) I think CNG has pulled it off perfectly.
 

Tavi13

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This is pretty much what he said to Lilith
Yep; that the scene that got me thinking about it. Personally I think it goes back a lot father than he is admitting to though. He saw what he wanted to, not what was there.

No dig on him for it, pretty sure everyone has done that at least once in their lives, he just didn't accept it for a long time (which would have made a terrible story anyway).
 

VIIValentine

New Member
Jul 13, 2019
11
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Oh wow, I feel quite happy to have found such a gem, all the praise to the dev for his dedication to his passion; it seems to be quite the pleasant game from what I have already seen and read.
Kudos to the dev for his dedication and passion which keeps the game maintained and updated!
 

MrLKX

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Jan 12, 2021
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Something went through my mind today: Frank has had several visits from three of the most important ladies in his life, in his dreams, so far. But one very important person, who unfortunately is no longer alive, is still missing: Jessica. All three sisters embody in his dreams Frank's fear of losing her and his love for her. How about Jess? She could be because of his fear of disappointing her (if he and Abby get close) and at the same time the pain of his lost great love. How do I imagine a dream like that?

Unlike Abby, Becca, and Lilli, I would - if possible, give Jess the form of an angel rather than a fairy. I could imagine the following things in the conversation:

She forgives Frank for marrying Shannon, not because of Shannon, but because of Abby, who wouldn't be the same without her sisters, and also because of Becca and Lilli, whom she never got to meet but she knows he gave them what they desperately needed at the time: A father.

She gives Frank her blessing to do something with Abby: He's struggled long enough with what happened in the past and needs to start looking ahead. He's made some decisions he regrets, but on the whole, all of that has led to a number of positive things as well:

They both met Meiko's parents and became friends.
Without her death, Frank would never have married Shannon, which means Becca and Lilli would never have met him, and neither of them would be the people they are now.
Frank would never have met Vanessa and Beth, and Vanessa in particular has become a friend to him in recent days.
If Frank had never hesitated to confess his feelings to Jess, Abby would never have been conceived. Maybe the two would have had children, maybe not, but none would have been Abby.

So, on the whole, the good outweighs the bad.

Besides, since we know that Jess was someone who liked to tease people, she certainly wouldn't let herself be deprived of the following things.

She would note with amusement that he nailed both of Shannon's daughters.
She would also definitely remark about Beth and if she wasn't married to Vanessa that would probably make Frank a Disney princess.

I think she would end her "visit" by saying that no one expects him to forget her, she will always love him and live on in the hearts of him, Abby and the Ogawas.

After that, probably a hug and a kiss.
 

MrLKX

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Jan 12, 2021
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More interesting topic: how much do you think Abby knows about what's going on?

I'm convinced:
She knows about Becca's harem plans with Frank.
She will know that Becca had plans to bring Frank and Lilli closer together. She will have supported her to some extent, because she always wanted Lilli and Frank to get along better.
She will possibly know (from Becca) that Frank was accepted as Lilli's father and potentially acted surprised when Lilli called Frank "Dad". There will also possibly have been a bit of joy in there that she was there when it happened.

I suspect:
She doesn't know how close Lilli has become (I'm unsure about that, maybe she expects it to happen eventually and probably also knows about Becca's "Lilli must be first but think she's not" and so is just working Frank until she's sure it's happened)

Whether she knows about Meiko's involvement, I'm unsure, though it's relatively irrelevant to her own plans.

If I'm right so far, then kudos, because Abby is definitely manipulative like Becca then. Not to the same extent, but it is definitely there.

Also, I expressed my thoughts ages ago that Becca is someone you don't want as an enemy and she does have something scary about her. Regarding Becca having naked pictures of Meiko and threatening to post them if she blurts out what's happening around Frank (thus jeopardizing/destroying Becca's 5-year plan) I have to say: Frank, not Lilli is the little psycho of the two sisters. Also, I feel like she made it pretty clear to her ex what would happen if he made any fuss or anything about their breakup.

Edit:
I also took the trouble to define the personalities of the three sisters:

Abby: Has for me so certain maternal tendencies. That she wanted to learn to cook from Frank can also be part of the circumstance that she wants to come closer to Frank and he perhaps recognizes the life companion material in her, besides, as is well known, love goes through the stomach. Also, of the three, along with Becca, I see her most likely babysitting *cough cough* Beth.

Lilli is a bit of the tomboy of the sisters for me. However, I'm unsure to what extent this is due to the loss of her father and the underbuttering by her mother coupled with the defiance against Frank. It's hard to say if Lilli would still be a tomboy but happier in a different scenario, or if she would have become more of a "girly girl."

I'm unsure about Becca: she's definitely a wild card, and I'm sure we've only seen bits and pieces of Becca's real personality so far.

Also, I'd like to note at this point that it's kind of funny, because quite ironic, that the two characters who are most opposed are probably the ones responsible for Abby having romantic interest in Frank: Frank himself, but presumably also Lilli.

After Jessica's tragic death, Frank has become overly protective of Abby; she was quite an outspoken girl, as we got to see in an early interaction with Lilli, but grew up very sheltered. Add to that the fact that most of the people her age that she dealt with were female and Frank was the only male contact she had regular interactions with. At the same time, Frank, similar to Becca, has unintentionally ensured that there is a certain expectation of what a potential partner must bring. As Vanessa says, it is no wonder that Abby's sexual needs are projected onto the only male person in her life with whom she has regular contact and who meets her expectations.

Lilli's influence on this is less extensive, and we have no definitive evidence of it, but it would certainly fit in with Lilli's behavior toward Abby: We know that Lilli is very protective of Abby, and we know that Lilli would not share Abby. Consequently, it is obvious to me that she may well have scared away one or two boys who would be a danger to her. When I think about it, it even makes sense: boys she knew would never be with Abby got the green light from her, and those she perceived as a danger that they could "take" Abby away from her were scared away by her.
 
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Tavi13

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More interesting topic: how much do you think Abby knows about what's going on?

I'm convinced:
She knows about Becca's harem plans with Frank.
She will know that Becca had plans to bring Frank and Lilli closer together. She will have supported her to some extent, because she always wanted Lilli and Frank to get along better.
She will possibly know (from Becca) that Frank was accepted as Lilli's father and potentially acted surprised when Lilli called Frank "Dad". There will also possibly have been a bit of joy in there that she was there when it happened.

I suspect:
She doesn't know how close Lilli has become (I'm unsure about that, maybe she expects it to happen eventually and probably also knows about Becca's "Lilli must be first but think she's not" and so is just working Frank until she's sure it's happened)

Whether she knows about Meiko's involvement, I'm unsure, though it's relatively irrelevant to her own plans.

If I'm right so far, then kudos, because Abby is definitely manipulative like Becca then. Not to the same extent, but it is definitely there.

Also, I expressed my thoughts ages ago that Becca is someone you don't want as an enemy and she does have something scary about her. Regarding Becca having naked pictures of Meiko and threatening to post them if she blurts out what's happening around Frank (thus jeopardizing/destroying Becca's 5-year plan) I have to say: Frank, not Lilli is the little psycho of the two sisters. Also, I feel like she made it pretty clear to her ex what would happen if he made any fuss or anything about their breakup.
I am honestly not sure how much Becca would have confided in/revealed to Abby; she knows that Abby has a hard time keeping anything from Lilith, and an even harder time keeping anything to herself when she is drinking.

I do think Abby has her own plans, and that she has had them for quite awhile.
I think her & Becca have talked about some of it in a very general "What if/Wouldn't it be funny" kind of way, kind of feeling each other out, which is why Becca was careful about promising not to "push" Abby the way she did Lilith. Becca already knows she doesn't have to do anything beyond giving an occasional piece of advice. Becca even said it herself when promising not to include Abby in her plans, something along the lines of "I don't have to do anything with her" (I forget the exact quote).

I was in full agreement with you about Becca then, and I have no reason to disagree with you now. Becca is the more dangerous of the sisters.
Lilith is the sister that will lose her temper and hit you with a bat.
Becca is the one that WON'T lose her temper. She will patiently wait for the exact right moment, and then strike in the way that will hurt you the most. Maybe the police get a tip about some images on your laptop, maybe your brakes fail during a rainstorm, maybe somone ran a red light while you were crossing the street & didn't stop to see if you were okay...I am personally waiting for Shannon to have a mysterious "accident" in a few months.
As for Abby; I think she can be just as manipulative as Becca when she wants to be, although not as patient, but that she doesn't have the....cold?.....mean?....cold streak that Becca has.
 
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Cartageno

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I am personally waiting for Shannon to have a mysterious "accident" in a few months.
Or Abby's "Real Dad" (tm) if he gets into the way too much?

I doubt that the story will be going that way but I will agree that I wouldn't put it past Becka.
 
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Tavi13

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Or Abby's "Real Dad" (tm) if he gets into the way too much?

I doubt that the story will be going that way but I will agree that I wouldn't put it past Becka.
I kind of doubt that it will go that way as well, at least in any way that is ever confirmed (a legit accident could clear up some tangles), but I have no doubt that Becca would go that far and never lose a moments sleep over it to protect any/every one in what she considers her family.
I honestly respect that about her.
 

MrLKX

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Lilli is definitely more the loud in your face person (as Frank can confirm not only metaphorically but also literally). Becca, on the other hand, even though they share certain traits as (half-)sisters (such as challenging Frank to bets they know they will win), reminds me of the Marvel and IDW Comics interpretation of the Decepticon Shockwave (for instance, his cold logic and calculating modus operandi is addressed), only in a human and feminine form.

That being said, I could very well see a portrayal of Misery starring Frank and Becca. Not necessarily as part of the plot but in terms of how far Becca is willing to go for her plans. Ironic enough considering Becca is the person who probably has the most writing talent.

Otherwise, what do you think the titles of Abby and Becca's side stories will be? Based on Lilith's Longing, we can assume [name] and a noun that describes an important aspect of the character. Possibly also in the form of a minor aliteration, although in Lilli's case that may have just been coincidence.

The longing in the title of Lilli's plot fit so far, since a big aspect of her was the longing for her father and a certain stability in her life. Her boyfriends were actually more gap fillers to fill the gap that her father left behind. She had two breakups in her storyline and even though she was upset at first with the second one, she quickly got over it after talking to Frank and accepting him as her father.

With Abby, I could imagine something like "Abby's Adoration", where her storyline would probably primarily revolve around her feelings for Lilli and her budding feelings towards Frank.

With Becca, I think something like "Rebecca's Revelation" would be appropriate, where we get deeper insights into her manipulations and mindset. Something that would probably be both fascinating and terrifying.

In such a story, I would also like to see the genesis of her plan that she has been working on for 5 years. She had fantasies with Frank before, as she herself admits, but I think that's when she started to see Frank as the one partner:

We know that Frank and Abby grow apart for a time. I think there were three factors at play: Puberty, Shannon finding Frank and Abby too close, and also Lilly with whom she developed a more than sisterly relationship. I think that was when Becca started her plan: Abby's age would fit the time, and we know that around the same time Becca started taking Abby's vacant place as "Frank's daughter" and spending more time with him. Frank himself says something along the lines that the two were becoming something like best friends at the time, and it wouldn't be the first time Frank failed to notice the interest of a female best friend.

By that time, the crush she had on Frank at I think about 15 or so may have developed into an attraction. She knew, of course, that it had no chance under the circumstances, but I think she would have realized that Shannon had developed a dislike for Frank and Abby. I wouldn't put it past her to try to track down Lilli's father and encourage her mother to have an affair by somehow contacting Trevor and getting him to contact Shannon.

If we assume that Lilli was also going to be part of this story, what were Becca's plans with Lilli during this time period, aside from what we know? Lilli was the only one of the sisters to have several boyfriends with whom she had experience, so what would have happened if she had gotten pregnant early, as Shannon did? Well I think that unlike Shannon, the role of the father (Frank), rendered by Becca and hammered into her sister's head so that wouldn't happen, which of course is not an absolute sure way. So I can also imagine that Becca was more or less directly responsible for some of Lilli's breakups (the only one we can be absolutely sure about is her penultimate breakup, since here Lilli was to blame, while on the last point we can't completely rule out that there Becca at least got the ball rolling).

To what extent Abby was part of the plan at that time is not clear. If she didn't know at the time that Abby and Frank are not father and daughter, she could have overheard a conversation by chance, for example, then that would be a bit extreme. At the same time, Becca has already hinted that she has at least a slight fetish in that direction. To what extent this was just a joke to lure Frank out of his reserve remains to be seen. However, she has never really, unlike this webcam thing, never really dismissed as a joke, so at least it can be assumed that there is a spark of truth to it.

In the matter of Abby, however, there was never really a risk, unlike with Lilly: Abby was, if I interpret the conversations in this direction correctly, always quite shy when it came to boys her age, even if she had a boyfriend. Lilli unknowingly took over the rest, since I trust her to have scared off potential boys who could take Abby away from her. Even if Abby wasn't part of the plan in the beginning, Lilli at least indirectly supported it with her "in your face" behavior towards people she didn't like.

But as I said, purely factually, Lilli was the only risk factor for Becca that something could go wrong, and Becca couldn't keep an eye on her sister 24/7, after all, even if there was probably some unwitting help from Abby there, too. Thinking about it, I suspect that the time between Lilli's first boyfriend to the present must have been a genuinely nerve-wracking time for Becca.
 

Tavi13

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If we assume that Lilli was also going to be part of this story, what were Becca's plans with Lilli during this time period, aside from what we know? Lilli was the only one of the sisters to have several boyfriends with whom she had experience, so what would have happened if she had gotten pregnant early....
This isn't as big a concern as it seems. Becca mentioned that Shannon had all of the girls go on the pill early because she "didn't want their mistakes running around her house". Obviously there is still a slight chance (at least in rl), but it is minuscule. Especially if Becca 'nudged' Lily to stay on it so she didn't turn into another Shannon.

By her admission, Becca stopped taking hers. She knew she didn't need it since she knew who she was saving herself for, so it wasn't worth the side-effects.
Lily confirms she is on the pill, unless I misremembering the living room scene.
Abby is still tbd, I don't remember it being mentioned, but the assumption is that she is still on it as well.

I think there were three factors at play...
Agreed. Frank can be a bit oblivious even in the best of circumstances, and these wouldn't be. Even when he noticed something, he blew it off as a childish crush then ignored it.

Otherwise, what do you think the titles of Abby and Becca's side stories will be?
I'll have to give this some thought....
 
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das1234

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Feb 10, 2017
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The becca thing is an interesting thought but i think having her be behind every single breakup and orchestrating the cheating by influencing every side is a bit too much. i don't know if palpatine is a good love interest for a porn game.

I wouldn't put it past this game to reveal that she orchestrated everything, i already think she is written too casual about being openly manipulative and i wonder why frank with all the self flagellation he does is not horrified at how cold she is toward everyone behind their backs. just like how he just goes along with leaving and lying to everyone he loves for exactly no reason or telling lilith beccas manipulative lines when she is crying on his couch.

I think beccas sidestory is about her 18th birthday when i think some flashback alluded to her trying something with frank which appearently didnt work out so well. i hope she has less prominent involvement in setting up the cheating incident but i guess we will see. im sure she had something to to with the whole thing.
it is hard for me to guess what abbys story could be about, because most of her character development is kind of initiated by frank and we already saw it.
I'm really interested where this goes next!
 

Tavi13

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Feb 1, 2021
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i don't know if palpatine is a good love interest for a porn game.
Guess that would depend on if you are into yandere types or not :sneaky:

wouldn't put it past this game to reveal that she orchestrated everything, i already think she is written too casual about being openly manipulative and i wonder why frank with all the self flagellation he does is not horrified at how cold she is toward everyone behind their backs.
I don't think she orchestrated everything, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she saw an opening and took advantage of it. For example: Personally I think she found about Shannons affair, and arranged for Frank to get the call that brought him home.

As for Frank; he was married to Shannon for so long he probably considers the manipulation normal. He is used to following the lead of a strong-willed woman. He also isn't comfortable being assertive, at least not yet, so he is trying that middle-of-the-road peacekeeping tactic.
 
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NakedSingularity

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May 17, 2022
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The censored version is what we have here currently. And the censorship is godawful, entire scenes blocked out. Removing any and all immersion one might feel.

Id hate to see an interesting story being ruined by the developers greed.
This is exactly why I blacklisted Patreon's URL 2 months ago and will not give a dime to anyone that uses Patreon (not difficult as these days I only have time for loli/incest AVN's). Maybe if 3M others did the same and went to Subscribestar (that doesn't give a shit about content) dev's would take notice.
 

MrLKX

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Jan 12, 2021
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This isn't as big a concern as it seems. Becca mentioned that Shannon had all of the girls go on the pill early because she "didn't want their mistakes running around her house".
That's right, there was that. And I have to say that such a statement from Shannon is not unexpected, but it is hypocritical. And damn rude to Becca. Reminds me of when my mom once jokingly called me an accident when the parents of a now ex-boyfriend of my sister's were visiting. But I digress.

Agreed. Frank can be a bit oblivious even in the best of circumstances, and these wouldn't be. Even when he noticed something, he blew it off as a childish crush then ignored it.
I agree. I think most of us would dismiss it as a crush but nothing serious.

The becca thing is an interesting thought but i think having her be behind every single breakup and orchestrating the cheating by influencing every side is a bit too much. i don't know if palpatine is a good love interest for a porn game.
Not necessarily behind all of them, but I at least believe that she is responsible for the contact between her mother and Lilli's father. With Lilli's last ex-boyfriend, she probably didn't have to initiate much, since Frank was an involuntary helper:

If Abby's father had never called -> Frank would never have thought it necessary to inform Abby about her parentage -> Frank would never have asked Lilli to stand by Abby beforehand.

So if this chain of events had never happened, Becca probably would have had to somehow get the ball rolling herself. Bringing Lilli and Frank together here was the best time with Frank's divorce.

I think beccas sidestory is about her 18th birthday when i think some flashback alluded to her trying something with frank which appearently didnt work out so well. i hope she has less prominent involvement in setting up the cheating incident but i guess we will see. im sure she had something to to with the whole thing.
it is hard for me to guess what abbys story could be about, because most of her character development is kind of initiated by frank and we already saw it.
I'm really interested where this goes next!
I think that she did not try anything big before the breakup, which was simply not perceived by Frank.

The risk that Shannon would find out was far too great. As described earlier, I think Becca pretended to be the neutral party in the old Shavell-Oxton household so as not to jeopardize the fragile power structure in Shannon's perception. Had she shown her affection for Frank earlier, if only by calling him "Dad" in Shannon's presence, the balance would have shifted in favor of Frank in Shannon's eyes. Moreover, it can be assumed that Shannon would think that Abby and Becca would then also convert Lilli to Team Frank.

I also assume that she knows her mother long and well enough to anticipate the harassment allegations she would make against Frank (as she actually did). So if she had been too friendly to Frank too soon instead of respectfully neutral, that would have potentially provided ammunition for (at the time possible) false accusations.
 
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Tavi13

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I have to say that such a statement from Shannon is not unexpected, but it is hypocritical. And damn rude to Becca.
That quote always stuck with me; it is where Shannon went from being a character that could be redeemable (we only had one perspective on how she really is/what really happened after all), to being a confirmed narcissist that there is no hope for (in my play anyway). I would still love a side story of what happened between her and Jess, but that is just for my own curiosity.

I think most of us would dismiss it as a crush but nothing serious
Absolutely.

I at least believe that she is responsible for the contact between her mother and Lilli's father..
I don't think she is responsible for that, but I could be wrong. I think she found out about it, decided to put her plans into action by taking advantage of it, and arranged for Frank to catch them though. It isn't hard to imagine her convincing her boyfriend to call Frank & ask him to rush home, all she would reallly have to do is ask him. Frank never met the bf, so he wouldn't recognize his voice.

The risk that Shannon would find out was far too great. As described earlier, I think Becca pretended to be the neutral party in the old Shavell-Oxton household so as not to jeopardize the fragile power structure in Shannon's perception. Had she shown her affection for Frank earlier, if only by calling him "Dad" in Shannon's presence, the balance would have shifted in favor of Frank in Shannon's eyes. Moreover, it can be assumed that Shannon would think that Abby and Becca would then also convert Lilli to Team Frank.

I also assume that she knows her mother long and well enough to anticipate the harassment allegations she would make against Frank (as she actually did). So if she had been too friendly to Frank too soon instead of respectfully neutral, that would have potentially provided ammunition for (at the time possible) false accusations.
Agreed. Any of the girls being close to Frank, even Abby, caused serious tension. Becca openly being team Frank would have caused massive issues, and would have probably caused them long before Becca could put her plans into action..
 
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Jace_Herondale

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That quote always stuck with me; it is where Shannon went from being a character that could be redeemable (we only had one perspective on how she really is/what really happened after all), to being a confirmed narcissist that there is no hope for (in my play anyway). I would still love a side story of what happened between her and Jess, but that is just for my own curiosity.
For me she was unredeemable since the whole "he was molesting my daughters" speech during the divorce. I mean who does such a thing?
 
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MrLKX

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That quote always stuck with me; it is where Shannon went from being a character that could be redeemable (we only had one perspective on how she really is/what really happened after all), to being a confirmed narcissist that there is no hope for (in my play anyway). I would still love a side story of what happened between her and Jess, but that is just for my own curiosity.
For me it was two things: Firstly the thing with her hypocrisy and secondly that she insinuated Frank in front of the judge that he had touched the girls. I wouldn't even be surprised or anything if Becca's plans against Shannon were due to her saying "I don't want your mistakes running around my house". As I write this I have to say, Shannon's parents weren't even different in this. They didn't want Shannon's mistakes running around their house either and sent Shannon off to her aunt's house. Shannon has no siblings that we know of and accordingly no one to whom she could have shipped her daughters off if it had happened. That being said, I think Frank, passive as he may be, would have definitely intervened and not allowed that to happen and if he had to drive across Canada to get her back, Frank is not one to abandon one of his daughters, adopted or step-.

Otherwise, I agree, I too would like to know what happened between Shannon and Jess. Since neither woman wanted to talk about it we can only assume what happened:

1. Shannon and Jess were once closer, possibly friends for a time, then either Shannon did something that caused Jess to break away from her. Shannon, already a narcissist at the time, felt betrayed and never forgave Jess for it.

2a. We know little about their parents. Possibly one of Jessica's parents had an affair with one of Shannon's parents, which shattered Shannon's parents' marriage while Jessica's parents may have gotten back together.

2b. Shannon's father had an affair with Jessica's mother from which Jessica was born. Shannon's mother either forgave her husband or separated and married someone else. Jessica's mother in turn either married the child's father or someone else depending on what Shannon's mother did. Shannon was then raised by her mother to hate Jessica.

I'm just realizing that in my guesses, antagonistic characters tend to have a fair degree of hypocrisy and ironic twists.

It isn't hard to imagine her convincing her boyfriend to call Frank & ask him to rush home, all she would reallly have to do is ask him. Frank never met the bf, so he wouldn't recognize his voice.
When Frank had confronted Becca about her breakup with her boyfriend, hadn't he said, in essence, that he was sorry because he perceived her boyfriend to be very sympathetic?
 

cxx

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For me she was unredeemable since the whole "he was molesting my daughters" speech during the divorce. I mean who does such a thing?
well could name few games where that happens or will happen (if game continues).
 
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