VN Ren'Py Completed Something to Write About: The Author [Ch. 7.1] [STWAdev]

[FatGiant]

I disagree with your conclusion and everything it's based on

Obviously. It's hard to face truths that we aren't ready to assume. You aren't there yet, maybe never. You are the product (it seems) of a racist society. It is so deeply ingrained that you think that being unable to feel connected with someone from another ethnicity is THE normal.

Newsflash, it isn't. That inability comes from racism. Comes from underdeveloped empathy. If you don't know, a society with low levels of empathy (like yours seems to be) is a doomed one. Empathy and the ability to relate to others is what allowed the Human race to develop a Civilization.

You and the others that commented here with apologies for racism and racist comments, are an atavism.

Sorry to tell you, but, you obviously needed to hear it.

Peace

 

[Quetzzz]

He wasn't working in college for money, it was fun for him and escape from problems when he was struggling with writing anyway. Money is not everything, you need some goals and purpose to get up from bed every morning.

I didn't say he took the job for money, just that he had enough money to not have to worry about the convenience of free lodging from someone he wants to avoid at all cost. Aoife describes how disheveled MC looked when he entered the classroom the first time. Whatever made him take the job, it wasn't a passion for teaching, and from MC's behavior at the bar (start of the game), he didn't strike me as looking for purpose.

I don't think there were details how that job and apartment thing happened but it just could be convenient for both sides, no one wanted to argue because of that and just accepted this state.

There weren't, no. MC did mention (before Chris came back) that he was renting the place, but this could've been a white lie instead of a plothole. I'm not sure if there was anything to argue about. Someone contacted MC about the teaching job, and he knew he was living in Chris' apartment. All he had to do was say "no", he could've just declined the offer and keep ignoring Chris. For me, it still comes down to this. If someone you don't want to hear about keeps pushing you, then the natural response (in that emotional state) is to put up more walls and distance. Not to go live in her place and replace her at her job. And to my earlier point about MC having fuck-you-money, was that it can buy convenience easily.

On one hand he wanted to erase her from his life

My interpretation is somewhat different. I don't think MC ever wanted to erase Chris from his life, he wanted to erase the last two years instead, she was collateral damage. He wanted to do everything to avoid being confronted with what happened and the part he played. It's self-pity, he blamed himself for what happened, and projected that onto Chris, while actively chasing her off. When Chris finally left (mentally exhausted herself), he resented her for it. Blaming her for leaving became easier than confronting his own feelings.

he just wanted to run away from solving this problem or at least postpone it as much as he could

This we entirely agree on. Then my question remains, if you're running away, why would you run towards the apartment and job of the one who represents the confrontation with yourself?

What I think is more plausible, is that STWA needed to have a way to force the confrontation between MC and Chris, and retconned him living in her apartment. Then he made MC's issue with Chris something (relatively) asinine, and easy to talk out, fast-tracking Chris into the LI roster. Something that bothered me was how quickly MC re-adjusted to having Chris around. It felt a bit fast-paced to me.

 

[molspajeros]

Obviously. It's hard to face truths that we aren't ready to assume. You aren't there yet, maybe never. You are the product (it seems) of a racist society. It is so deeply ingrained that you think that being unable to feel connected with someone from another ethnicity is THE normal.

Newsflash, it isn't. That inability comes from racism. Comes from underdeveloped empathy. If you don't know, a society with low levels of empathy (like yours seems to be) is a doomed one. Empathy and the ability to relate to others is what allowed the Human race to develop a Civilization.

You and the others that commented here with apologies for racism and racist comments, are an atavism.

Sorry to tell you, but, you obviously needed to hear it.

Peace

You are wrong about how you start the train of thought, it is not that I cannot connect with a black person on an emotional level, sure I can, but that and porn work different in my mind.

Like it won't make me misogynistic because I won't play a game with a female MC. Or fat phobic if I don't like a fat MC, or trans phobic if I don't like a futa/trans MC. We can call that sexual preference or kink, I can connect with all those groups above on an emotional level, but not on a sexual.

In conclusion, I think it is wrong of you to cry malfeasance not knowing the intent of the person, and always think the worst.

Nothing against you, I just think you mean well, but you are wrong.

 

[Cartageno]

You are wrong about how you start the train of thought, it is not that I cannot connect with a black person on an emotional level, sure I can, but that and porn work different in my mind.

Like it won't make me misogynistic because I won't play a game with a female MC. Or fat phobic if I don't like a fat MC, or trans phobic if I don't like a futa/trans MC. We can call that sexual preference or kink, I can connect with all those groups above on an emotional level, but not on a sexual.

In conclusion, I think it is wrong of you to cry malfeasance not knowing the intent of the person, and always think the worst.

Nothing against you, I just think you mean well, but you are wrong.

As has been said, you are correct that you (or anybody else) cannot control and thus cannot be blamed for how you feel. However you can control how you talk about it.

Your original post stated "I don't really like that the MC is black". No further context was given. No connection with any ongoing conversation. This statement must be able to stand on its own, and on its own it is simply and plain racist. You said we are "not knowing the intent", somebody else said "we don't know you" which is true, but if you do not give us the intent we must - and will - judge this statement as it stands in this discussion. And we will judge you by what you say when we don't know anything else about you. Which is "I don't really like that the MC is black" - and that still is racist.

If you want us to consider mitigating aspects, you should have given them with this statement, because while assuming good faith is a good thing, you cannot expect us to always assume the best. And even with the best intent by the way, you can still act and speak in a racist way. Maybe you were taught that certain behavior is acceptable where you are, but you may find out that elsewhere it isn't - quite a lot of people on here seem to agree that the statement was racist, and I will stand by that. You might not have wanted it to be but it is.

If you, as Avaron said, stated "I cannot connect with the MC because he is black and I am white" or something to that effect it would have been a different story similar to "I don't really get off on BDSM, but the game is still good". You just stated you don't like it as if it was kind of an objective flaw.

The last sentence you wrote may just as well go back to you. You might mean well - but you are wrong.

 

[FatGiant]

You are wrong about how you start the train of thought, it is not that I cannot connect with a black person on an emotional level, sure I can, but that and porn work different in my mind.

Like it won't make me misogynistic because I won't play a game with a female MC. Or fat phobic if I don't like a fat MC, or trans phobic if I don't like a futa/trans MC. We can call that sexual preference or kink, I can connect with all those groups above on an emotional level, but not on a sexual.

In conclusion, I think it is wrong of you to cry malfeasance not knowing the intent of the person, and always think the worst.

Nothing against you, I just think you mean well, but you are wrong.

I am sorry to tell you this, but that is a distinction without a difference.

It isn't a "Preference", it is a personality deformation, based on your TRUE feelings. You are unable to place yourself and even if you say you can relate emotionally, I truly doubt that that is a deep connection.

Hey, it is NOT a sentence for life, you have been taught to feel that way, so, it IS possible to learn to be able to connect and feel able to feel empathy towards people different than you.

Let's be clear, what you say that it doesn't make you, IT TRULY DOES. You are a product of an education based on fear and disgust of difference. You may have learned to disguise your disgust socially. But, when given a "choice" you act based on your TRUE feelings. Misogynist, Fat Phobic, Trans Phobic and quite probably Xenophobic and Homophobic too. You can't help it. That's what you learned to be. The fact that you feel the need to point out that that doesn't make you those things, is a proof that you have learned to disguise it socially, that you KNOW that that isn't socially accepted behavior. That's why you choose to set those limits to the content you consume. That's why you THINK that it is OK to say Racist things and excuse them because it is "ONLY" on P0rn. Because it is a choice of content. Because it is just a comment on what you PREFER. Because you feel authorized to express whatever enormity about those subjects, like you just did, because it's just on P0rn.

To your dismay, it seems that that opinions that you proffer, actually say WHAT you are. Even when you try to disguise it as "ONLY".

I don't cry malfeasance, I say clearly and consistently that that is a Racist commentary. That defending it, in any way, shape or form, with whatever exceptions you may think of, is POINTLESS. That is a Racist commentary. Whatever you think of yourself, however you explain or whatever exceptions you exhibit, are irrelevant. In the case of the invoked exceptions, they further confirm where you lean to.

Sorry, but if you don't want to be mistaken to be a wolf, don't wear its skin. (This is a translation of a proverb in my language, maybe it's not common in English), so, if you don't want to be accused of being a racist and all the other things you claim not to be, maybe avoid saying things like those that you said?

Peace

 

[molspajeros]

As has been said, you are correct that you (or anybody else) cannot control and thus cannot be blamed for how you feel. However you can control how you talk about it.

Your original post stated "I don't really like that the MC is black". No further context was given. No connection with any ongoing conversation. This statement must be able to stand on its own, and on its own it is simply and plain racist. You said we are "not knowing the intent", somebody else said "we don't know you" which is true, but if you do not give us the intent we must - and will - judge this statement as it stands in this discussion. And we will judge you by what you say when we don't know anything else about you. Which is "I don't really like that the MC is black" - and that still is racist.

If you want us to consider mitigating aspects, you should have given them with this statement, because while assuming good faith is a good thing, you cannot expect us to always assume the best. And even with the best intent by the way, you can still act and speak in a racist way. Maybe you were taught that certain behavior is acceptable where you are, but you may find out that elsewhere it isn't - quite a lot of people on here seem to agree that the statement was racist, and I will stand by that. You might not have wanted it to be but it is.

If you, as Avaron said, stated "I cannot connect with the MC because he is black and I am white" or something to that effect it would have been a different story similar to "I don't really get off on BDSM, but the game is still good". You just stated you don't like it as if it was kind of an objective flaw.

The last sentence you wrote may just as well go back to you. You might mean well - but you are wrong.

now that I think about it, you are right I don't intended anything by it, but it sounds worse that I intended

 

[molspajeros]

I am sorry to tell you this, but that is a distinction without a difference.

It isn't a "Preference", it is a personality deformation, based on your TRUE feelings. You are unable to place yourself and even if you say you can relate emotionally, I truly doubt that that is a deep connection.

Hey, it is NOT a sentence for life, you have been taught to feel that way, so, it IS possible to learn to be able to connect and feel able to feel empathy towards people different than you.

Let's be clear, what you say that it doesn't make you, IT TRULY DOES. You are a product of an education based on fear and disgust of difference. You may have learned to disguise your disgust socially. But, when given a "choice" you act based on your TRUE feelings. Misogynist, Fat Phobic, Trans Phobic and quite probably Xenophobic and Homophobic too. You can't help it. That's what you learned to be. The fact that you feel the need to point out that that doesn't make you those things, is a proof that you have learned to disguise it socially, that you KNOW that that isn't socially accepted behavior. That's why you choose to set those limits to the content you consume. That's why you THINK that it is OK to say Racist things and excuse them because it is "ONLY" on P0rn. Because it is a choice of content. Because it is just a comment on what you PREFER. Because you feel authorized to express whatever enormity about those subjects, like you just did, because it's just on P0rn.

To your dismay, it seems that that opinions that you proffer, actually say WHAT you are. Even when you try to disguise it as "ONLY".

I don't cry malfeasance, I say clearly and consistently that that is a Racist commentary. That defending it, in any way, shape or form, with whatever exceptions you may think of, is POINTLESS. That is a Racist commentary. Whatever you think of yourself, however you explain or whatever exceptions you exhibit, are irrelevant. In the case of the invoked exceptions, they further confirm where you lean to.

Sorry, but if you don't want to be mistaken to be a wolf, don't wear its skin. (This is a translation of a proverb in my language, maybe it's not common in English), so, if you don't want to be accused of being a racist and all the other things you claim not to be, maybe avoid saying things like those that you said?

Peace

Are you a psychologist ? How can you be so sure about everything you say ? If not, what makes you say all that.
I'm genuinely curious.

 

[FatGiant]

Are you a psychologist ? How can you be so sure about everything you say ? If not, what makes you say all that.
I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Dragon59]

Let's not try to white wash a racist comment, by making MORE racist comments.

The fact that you can't identify with someone of a different ethnicity (NOT race, the race is Human), is a deficit of your development as a person, your Limited capacity for Empathy, is a developmental problem. Your environment is most likely the culprit. By environment, I mean your family, your friends, the people that surround you. Not only that, but your inability to even comprehend that that IS a problem is also a result of your involvement in that environment.

Clearly, you suffer from the self imposed ignorance that comes from not exploring outside of your chosen boundaries. You are being mentally lazy, have auto imposed ignorance and will NEVER be a fully developed human unless you go out into the world to experience difference and learn empathy.

If you feel that an absolutely RACIST comment is not really racist, is only because YOU are a Racist. Everyone else sees it for what it is.

I have good news. Racism isn't for life. It can be cured.

Better news even, the treatment is free. It's called Education. It doesn't even requires you go to school.

Peace

Honestly, it's stuff like this that reinforces my idea that we often have "too much" self-insertion in these stories. If not being able to self-insert ruins one's experience, if one cannot enjoy a story without self-inserting, that seems more like a player problem than a developer problem.

I'm going to continue to write stories with female (lesbian) protagonists and/or non-white protagonists if the story calls for it. My primary goal is to write interesting adult stories.

Obviously. It's hard to face truths that we aren't ready to assume. You aren't there yet, maybe never. You are the product (it seems) of a racist society. It is so deeply ingrained that you think that being unable to feel connected with someone from another ethnicity is THE normal.

Newsflash, it isn't. That inability comes from racism. Comes from underdeveloped empathy. If you don't know, a society with low levels of empathy (like yours seems to be) is a doomed one. Empathy and the ability to relate to others is what allowed the Human race to develop a Civilization.

You and the others that commented here with apologies for racism and racist comments, are an atavism.

Sorry to tell you, but, you obviously needed to hear it.

Peace

I'm reminded of a story by Arthur C. Clarke called "The Tricentennial Man. In it, the protagonist is the result of a man who cloned himself and raised that clone as his son, who would then repeat the process for many generations. We were halfway through the story, when he visited earth in 2176, that someone from Earth remarked on how dark his skin was (i.e. no one on Earth still had such a distinctive color). He played with how most had created a certain image of the protagonist that did not match what the author had intended.

You are wrong about how you start the train of thought, it is not that I cannot connect with a black person on an emotional level, sure I can, but that and porn work different in my mind.

Like it won't make me misogynistic because I won't play a game with a female MC. Or fat phobic if I don't like a fat MC, or trans phobic if I don't like a futa/trans MC. We can call that sexual preference or kink, I can connect with all those groups above on an emotional level, but not on a sexual.

In conclusion, I think it is wrong of you to cry malfeasance not knowing the intent of the person, and always think the worst.

Nothing against you, I just think you mean well, but you are wrong.

What sticks out for me is that you don't seem to be reading AVNs as visual NOVELS. You are apparently using them for sexual gratification and as such, seem to feel a special need to have the character be self-insertable. Many developers choose characters based upon the needs of the story, not necessarily thinking (how many players will be able to insert themselves for maximum sexual immersion. Perhaps it would help if you treated it like you would a book or movie--just enjoy the story rather than insisting it meet a narrow requirement for sexual arousal. It really would be so much easier to indulge in actual porn.

 

[Quetzzz]

What sticks out for me is that you don't seem to be reading AVNs as visual NOVELS. You are apparently using them for sexual gratification and as such, seem to feel a special need to have the character be self-insertable. Many developers choose characters based upon the needs of the story, not necessarily thinking (how many players will be able to insert themselves for maximum sexual immersion. Perhaps it would help if you treated it like you would a book or movie--just enjoy the story rather than insisting it meet a narrow requirement for sexual arousal. It really would be so much easier to indulge in actual porn.

I'm aware this reply wasn't aimed at me, but it touches on something I've been wondering about.

An AVN without choices, I'll read as if it's a book or watching a movie, my mind is in meta-space, and I'm observing the story. When there are choices, it becomes more like a role-play experience to me. When there are multiple paths, I'll have one "my canon" playthrough, followed by others to explore different paths. STWA's other game "Unbroken" creates an issue for me, where (I feel) it wants to be read like a book, while offering meaningful choices. Its main character is too obscured, surrounded in mystery for the benefit of the reader, but to the detriment of someone wanting to play as Valentine.

Am I just weird? I get the impression that most people can disassociate more easily from the MC than I can.

 

[Cartageno]

I'm aware this reply wasn't aimed at me, but it touches on something I've been wondering about.

An AVN without choices, I'll read as if it's a book or watching a movie, my mind is in meta-space, and I'm observing the story. When there are choices, it becomes more like a role-play experience to me. When there are multiple paths, I'll have one "my canon" playthrough, followed by others to explore different paths. STWA's other game "Unbroken" creates an issue for me, where (I feel) it wants to be read like a book, while offering meaningful choices. Its main character is too obscured, surrounded in mystery for the benefit of the reader, but to the detriment of someone wanting to play as Valentine.

Am I just weird? I get the impression that most people can disassociate more easily from the MC than I can.

Many people certainly can, but yeah, I cannot. This isn't only in AVNs though for me, I react the same as a protagonist of a "normal" video game. If my life story is set in stone and I can only do better in the Jump and Run or whatever, I play as an outsider. Give me any form of decisions or open world, it is me - and in some cases I have missed content because I wouldn't do something at all, so my player character doesn't even though it loses a good chunk of the game. There are limits to that of course, just because I cannot climb up a 80m high wall it doesn't mean my character can't, and more importantly, while I would never resort to violence in real life, I might in games. But I wouldn't go on a killing spree on innocents.

 

[Cartageno]

I'm aware this reply wasn't aimed at me, but it touches on something I've been wondering about.

An AVN without choices, I'll read as if it's a book or watching a movie, my mind is in meta-space, and I'm observing the story. When there are choices, it becomes more like a role-play experience to me. When there are multiple paths, I'll have one "my canon" playthrough, followed by others to explore different paths. STWA's other game "Unbroken" creates an issue for me, where (I feel) it wants to be read like a book, while offering meaningful choices. Its main character is too obscured, surrounded in mystery for the benefit of the reader, but to the detriment of someone wanting to play as Valentine.

Am I just weird? I get the impression that most people can disassociate more easily from the MC than I can.

Oh, I forgot: yeah, you're weird. Most certainly.

 

[Quetzzz]

Many people certainly can, but yeah, I cannot. This isn't only in AVNs though for me, I react the same as a protagonist of a "normal" video game. If my life story is set in stone and I can only do better in the Jump and Run or whatever, I play as an outsider. Give me any form of decisions or open world, it is me - and in some cases I have missed content because I wouldn't do something at all, so my player character doesn't even though it loses a good chunk of the game. There are limits to that of course, just because I cannot climb up a 80m high wall it doesn't mean my character can't, and more importantly, while I would never resort to violence in real life, I might in games. But I wouldn't go on a killing spree on innocents.

Makes a lot of sense, and is similar to how I play. Though, blank slate characters are the least appealing to me (Skyrim). I've always seen self-inserting as something mostly women do. Just looking at advertisements, those aimed at women are about what they could be and feel. Those aimed at men are about what they can have and achieve.

Do you play any Female Protagonist Corruption AVN?

 

[Cartageno]

Do you play any Female Protagonist Corruption AVN?

Very rarely to no. I have one or two I enjoyed, but usually I couldn't insert (hah, there is that word again) myself into the story. So basically I stopped trying - even though some on here look nice, have an interesting storyline blurb and good ratings.

 

[Quetzzz]

Very rarely to no. I have one or two I enjoyed, but usually I couldn't insert (hah, there is that word again) myself into the story. So basically I stopped trying - even though some on here look nice, have an interesting storyline blurb and good ratings.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wouldn't call it "insertion" either, because I have no issues playing as a female protagonist in RPG games. Sexology says that any form of being penetrated (consensually) is an act of submission. I only agree with that statement for maybe 90%, but it might be where my issue is. One exception might be(come) Steps of Debauchery, because the writers do a superb job at telegraphing Riley's mental state and wishes. It provides a degree of separation.

 

[Catwashere]

So do i have this correctly, Beatrix and Aoifie have the same father but different moms?

 

[Demonius]

So do i have this correctly, Beatrix and Aoifie have the same father but different moms?

no, they share no blood, b's dad was dating/married to aoifie's mom

 

[yeezykanye]

love how you can play as black guy

 

[CarlosZaxos]

i love how the mc is black, any others like this?

 

[Avaron1974]

i love how the mc is black, any others like this?

https://f95zone.to/threads/alpha-omega-v0-3-1-ezygames.123905/

MC is black there too.