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Vibesy

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Nov 19, 2023
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Here's to a special holiday season and a happy new year!
Hope the season brings you plenty of joy, laughter, and good vibes with the people you care about.

also new update news regarding the state of the game:





View attachment 4371872
Thanks. So to summarize, RL work and burnout getting in the way of working on the game.

The money quote: "I'm having to make so many versions of the same scene. Such is branching."

I think the next update is going to be awesome and probably worth the wait because Atemsiel has a lot of talent and is a great & funny writer. But we are really seeing the dev problems with all the different paths, which greatly complicates structuring the game. And unfortunately it will just get worse going forward...
 
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Tiur

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2021
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Thanks. So to summarize, RL work and burnout getting in the way of working on the game.

The money quote: "I'm having to make so many versions of the same scene. Such is branching."

I think the next update is going to be awesome and probably worth the wait because Atemsiel has a lot of talent and is a great & funny writer. But we are really seeing the dev problems with all the different paths, which greatly complicates structuring the game. And unfortunately it will just get worse going forward...
I will repeat something Atem has said in the past. No branching would mean no game. He has zero interest in making a game that does not respond to player choices.
 

Vibesy

Member
Nov 19, 2023
161
371
I will repeat something Atem has said in the past. No branching would mean no game. He has zero interest in making a game that does not respond to player choices.
Straw man argument. No one is calling for no branching. Three paths for every LI is the problem. That's what massively complicates the script, rendering etc- leading to much longer time between updates.

But another major issue is how do you come up with interesting slave scenes for each girl? Or make them all compelling romantic characters? It's why most harem games only have one submissive LI, because it's not easy to think up creative ways to portray that relationship. Well Atemsiel needs to come up with great slave scenes for seven girls, realistic romance scenes for the same seven girls etc. That's tough for anyone and may not be doable with any real depth. Especially when the scenes may not reflect the dev's RL kinks.

Like a lot of 1st time devs Atemsiel has a big vision for the game he wants to make. That's awesome. However, RL often has a way of making choices for you.
 

Tiur

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Nov 13, 2021
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Straw man argument. No one is calling for no branching. Three paths for every LI is the problem. That's what massively complicates the script, rendering etc- leading to much longer time between updates.
Choices that the game remembers are what increase scene variations, not necessarily the 'three paths per LI' that everyone keeps harping on and blaming for slow updates. But, as I said above, choices are explicitly not something Atem is going to do without, and it's unlikely that he'll ever reduce the number of choices the player (and MC) can make. He explicitly didn't want to make a game where the only meaningful choices are "is this girl in the harem or not".

But another major issue is how do you come up with interesting slave scenes for each girl? Or make them all compelling romantic characters?
By being a good writer, which Atem's proven he is, time and time again. I understand that most games are not written by good writers. Just because fans of the game have a harder time coming up with interesting scenes does not mean the dev has a harder time. Having seen WIP content, I will guarantee you that having trouble coming up with scene ideas is not a problem Atem has. (I am fairly certain that Atem has more scene ideas for good, sexy scenes on most paths, than will ever exist in this game.)
 

Vibesy

Member
Nov 19, 2023
161
371
Choices that the game remembers are what increase scene variations, not necessarily the 'three paths per LI' that everyone keeps harping on and blaming for slow updates. But, as I said above, choices are explicitly not something Atem is going to do without, and it's unlikely that he'll ever reduce the number of choices the player (and MC) can make. He explicitly didn't want to make a game where the only meaningful choices are "is this girl in the harem or not".


By being a good writer, which Atem's proven he is, time and time again. I understand that most games are not written by good writers. Just because fans of the game have a harder time coming up with interesting scenes does not mean the dev has a harder time. Having seen WIP content, I will guarantee you that having trouble coming up with scene ideas is not a problem Atem has. (I am fairly certain that Atem has more scene ideas for good, sexy scenes on most paths, than will ever exist in this game.)
Look, I'm just responding to the reality here. Taking roughly 15 months since the last major update- assuming it releases soon- speaks for itself. So does a dev who complains about the number of scenes he has to rerender due to branching.

I don't know how objective you can be given that you seem to be part of the development team in some way. But if people in the thread are "harping on" about the the three paths, it's because we have all seen a multitude of good/great games get abandoned because of overly ambitious goals, especially among 1st-time devs... and unfortunately the warning signs are here. There is a big difference between what a dev wants to make and the reality of finding the time & motivation as a solo dev to make it.
 

Tiur

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Nov 13, 2021
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Look, I'm just responding to the reality here. Taking roughly 15 months since the last major update- assuming it releases soon- speaks for itself. So does a dev who complains about the number of scenes he has to rerender due to branching.
That was not a complaint. It was an explanation why he doesn't post more frequent status updates: they'd be identical. He was not remotely complaining about the scene. Here's what he actually said:
One reason I don't do more frequent progress updates is I feel I'd be repeating myself with this specific update because I'm having to make so many versions of the same scene. Such is branching.
So, again, not a complaint. I'm fairly sure at this point that he likes making the scene variations specifically because they represent the game reacting to the decisions of the player/MC. (Also, scene variations are inherently easier to make than new scenes, because the map is already done.)

Also, those scene variations are more often about "has the MC had sexual contact with the girls involved in the scene? in what combination?" than they are about the "three paths".

One of the things that makes this game take so much longer than a lot of others has nothing to do with paths, and everything to do with Atem hating static faces. He makes almost every line have a different render, so that the people who are talking appear to be talking, and have appropriate expressions based on the conversation (and the conversation that has led up to that point). That's why it's more complex than most. Like, I love Cosy Cafe, but none of Cosy's characters ever open their mouths at all, and a lot of conversations have relatively static expressions throughout. There are a lot of other games, including some I like, where most conversations just alternate a render of each speaker with their mouth open when they talk, but only use those same two renders for the whole conversation. Neither of these are things Atem will ever do.

I don't know how objective you can be given that you seem to be part of the development team in some way.
Nope, just a fan who's chatted with Atem a lot, and helped him out with discreet opinions on WIP content a few times.

But if people in the thread are "harping on" about the the three paths, it's because we have all seen a multitude of good/great games get abandoned because of overly ambitious goals, especially among 1st-time devs...
And that doesn't stop people from being wrong, as I've demonstrated multiple times.

If you want a KN, this won't ever be one. If you want only "harem: yes/no" and "hide lesbian content" choices? This won't ever be that, either. There are a lot of good games that qualify for both of those, and I've just gotten tired of the doomsaying that's cropped up recently in this thread. If you doubt the game, just move on and don't support it. It's really that simple. But the arguments that people keep making about assigning blame to specific developer decisions are pure speculation not borne out by anything Atem has said or done.

Anyway. I'd rather see people talk about the actual game content itself here instead, so I'm done cluttering up the thread with this topic.

I'd be happy to, for example, explain why the game isn't larger in file size despite the staggering number of renders. It's not due to compression.
 
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Vibesy

Member
Nov 19, 2023
161
371
If you doubt the game, just move on and don't support it. It's really that simple. But the arguments that people keep making about assigning blame to specific developer decisions are pure speculation not borne out by anything Atem has said or done.
It's borne out by the very extended delays between updates. If you want to discourage speculation, the best way is more consistent updates, which he himself said he was aiming for. Frankly, you are offbase telling fans of the game to leave the thread.

A year ago I thought the game was highly ambitious, but that Atemsiel might pull it off. Now I seriously doubt he will, but I nevertheless fully intend to play anything he releases because it's been great so far. This isn't a cult where we all have to swear allegiance to a particular approach or way of thinking. If you consider that "doomsaying" maybe you should "move on".

Anyway. I'd rather see people talk about the actual game content itself here instead, so I'm done cluttering up the thread with this topic.
Sure, since you claim to have seen the upcoming WIP, why don't you get the ball rolling and tell us what's in it. Cause otherwise we've had over a year to discuss the actual game content and that ground has been well covered.
 
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