Recommending Story-first games

[Dragon59]

I think simplifying the "story-first" criteria in the OP more or less leads to characters behaving believably and a certain level of groundedness to the world.

By groundedness, I mean we are not really considering extremely wacky world building like "only man alive" or some other contrived situation that is only there to enable a fetish.

I've wracked my brain over this, as have others, but it seems like the typical harem that the harem enthusiasts want are fundamentally going to break one or both of those conditions.

Just recently, I've played through 2 well written harem games, but I couldn't really be sure if it will go over well over here.

Now I have the twisted idea of doing a traditional/historical harem game--but from the perspective of one of the women in the harem, or even a "unique" perspective (i.e. a palace eunuch). Perhaps giving the player a choice of male or female protagonist.

Seriously, I can see it now. The MC is the daughter of a neighboring warlord, and is given over to the prince as tribute/a peace offering. She is brought in totally ignorant of the rules of the harem, and must be taught. She learns of the pecking order. She sees wives and higher concubines leaving for a night. Perhaps the goal of the game is to rise in the hierarchy and become one of the actual wives....

TBH loli/shota games, where the story is actually good/immersive/etc. shouldn't ever be and probably couldn't ever be fap material. It's similar to the incest discussion we had some time ago, where some of us concluded that fetishized incest fulfills a fundamentally different role to incest as a pure plot device.
The only thing creepier than a loli/shota game, is a loli/shota game you're supposed to play with a raised pinky.

Perhaps it is a factor of my age. I've never felt the need or desire to fap to any of these games (especially loli/shota). I may get a little excited in a game, but then I'd turn to actual porn to continue.

From the very first scene it was clear that the PC has the thickest chad-armor, which gets extended to every single MC really. Unnamed characters can get gruesomely gored and/or raped, though. It's pure self-indulgence.

Definitely doesn't sound like self-indulgence for me. I'd stay away from such a game.

I couldn't disagree more. Because I'm not the MC. I'm the player who gets to experience everything the game has to offer, whether MC is involved in it or not. There is beauty in that, and it's why insisting on self-inserts one can live vicariously through is a very limiting constraint to put on VNs. I'm not saying you should develop all of your NPCs to the level of detail as your LIs, but just because a character isn't attracted to the MC doesn't mean they can't be vital to a story.

This!
One hundred times this!

About loli and shota, I think the last few mentions implied a story of an adult getting with and, let's be blunt, fucking someone under 16, and that's clear noncey territory. But what do you feel about two teens under 18 with an age difference of 3 or 4 years? That could also get that tag. In theory an adult woman dressing like a loli could maybe get the loli tag too, not sure how an adult man should dress to qualify as a shota though.

Some of us live in a country where in at least one state, two under 18 teenagers exchanging racy pics with each other could be charged with distributing cp. If memory serves, one case was that of the girl's parents using their community standing to pressure law enforcement to charge the 14 year old boy.

In a few Scandinavian countries, where, like most of Europe, the age of consent is below 18, teens under 18 can have consensual pictures of each other, but it is still illegal to sell such images. By that standard, it may be perfectly fine for too young teens to have relations with each other, but not fine for us to see it.

It used to be legal for them to feature 16 and 17 year old actors, but international agreements changed the legal limit to 18. I expect a big reason Seventeen is trying to rebrand themselves as Sweethearts.

I wonder how much of the US pressure for those agreements was fueled by the Traci Lords fiasco.

The only woman I knew who was into Loli cosplay was 35 years old at the time.

 

[Ezykeyal]

Alpha Omega's new chapter is

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! (That's a public link)

See previous discussion starting here.

Let the 'midget' and 'omg black guy' comments, commence!

 

[desmosome]

Alpha Omega's new chapter is

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! (That's a public link)

See previous discussion starting here.

So it was a tentative rec before. How is it now? I have a feeling I won't like it unless the dialogue is really on point.

Edit: Oh shit, that was the dev above me.

 

[Ezykeyal]

The dialogue in episode 1 was pretty atrocious. I tried to update it a little to make it less so. I feel personally that it has greatly improved with episode 2, but I'll leave it up to the judges and I might be dead wrong!

 

[ename144]

I didn't feel that way personally. I get the boring criticism because WTHI has filler scenes where not a lot is going on, but it didn't get to the point where I thought the MC needed to cheat in order to spice things up. My understanding is there are or at least can be negative consequences for cheating/sleeping around. If the game truly wanted to railroad cheating, why have any consequences at all?

I actually preferred to view Monica, Katie, Jenna, Elaine, and Bella as basically family rather than LIs to be pursued. There are no blood relationships involved or implied, but that's the dynamic that made the most sense to me apart from Bella tending to come on rather strongly at times (hrm, that could be suspicious). OK, Katie does as well. So Elaine and Bella didn't really fit the classic gold digger archetype in my playthrough -- they were more like family members potentially scheming and maneuvering to steal the family fortune -- but if you're romancing them they might seem more that way. I found the storyline compelling because of the conflict between the MC's memories of how he was treated growing up and the competing versions of reality provided by Elaine and Bella.

I'd like to bring ename144 into this if he's around because he knows WTHI backwards and forwards, way better than I do with my single playthrough. At the end of the day, is the MC just a gigolo or is there some substance to my robust riposte?

Where the Heart Is starts out a lot more porn-troupey than it eventually becomes, IMHO. In the early chapters the MC is a more blatant lech, the woman around him feel much shallower (and definitely have that faux-incest vibe), and the transitions when you avoid a sex scene can be very stilted. But the game mellows out rather quickly and for the most part it's been possible to build up platonic relations with the main cast without feeling like I was playing the game "wrong." Indeed, I find Monica is a great mother figure (once the game dropped the implication she's a borderline alcoholic), and Katie works much better as an annoying sister than she does as a love interest.

Obviously this is going to come down to personal preference, but I think the game has gone out of its way to give us options that very precisely control what the MC does with the numerous LIs. I've certainly enjoyed the hell out of my solo-Lily run: that's definitely not the game was 'expects' to be played, yet there are a still a few good moments that cater to the MC being very loyal. The MC does still have some stray "uh oh, she's on to me!" thoughts cross his mind from time to time when he genuinely has nothing to hide, but no one's perfect. It's certainly nowhere near the predatory, borderline misogynistic introspection I've seen elsewhere.

As far as Bella and the will subplot in particular, I think it's been handled very well overall. Bella's behavior has been suspicious for a while, and her position in the narrative (with the MC automatically confiding his plans to hack Elaine's computer only to find nothing once Bella does it for him) made her even more suspicious from a meta perspective. But is that a bug, or a feature? Yes, she comes on strong to the MC, but if that fits both her character and her roll in the story, what's the problem? It's not like you're starved for alternative targets if you turn her down. And in the end you can still turn her down if you want to.

On top of that, it remains to be seen what Bella's end goal really is. She's certainly dug herself a deep hole after all that manipulation, but in the end it's mostly been Elaine who's suffered from it, not the player. Bella's motivation and thought process will make all the difference here. I can definitely see ways in which she and an MC who's been romancing her could wind up on the same page even after the reveal, which would make it a very effective twist in my book. It certainly has me eager to play the next episode when it's released so it must be doing something right.

Obviously they still need to stick the landing, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Honestly, my only real complaint about WtHI is that the devs persist in adding side girls to the narrative, and they're just not as interesting as the story we already had. (Then again, when they keep winning polls for new content it's debatable whether the devs should be catering my erudite tastes. )

 

[realjitter]

Ok, so i played "Your Story"

https://f95zone.to/threads/your-story-unknown-gameload.59258/

This was bar none the most awkward game/novel i've played in a long time. It starts out as a very innocent, fantasy "dating" VN. Like it was made for teenagers or something. But right from the beginning there's odd stuff happening. For example, the MC is breaking the 4th wall constantly and addresses the player directly which didn't make sense to me. Up to a point when the MC passes over control to the player completely. And that's not all of it. Sometimes you make a choice in the game like "approach her" "kiss her", stuff like that and then you get a developer comment like "Oh really?" or "Interesting.." which is awkward as fuck . I don't wanna spoil anything here, but be careful whom you chose .

Overal to me this felt like some student project or something.. Interesting for sure. One of those games where people either say that it was the biggest b/s ever or that it's pretty cool. I can see both sides for sure.

Supposingly there's going to be a second part at some point which is definitely needed... At the very least i wanna know what happened to the LI I chose

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. But than again, i don't know what happend there at the end

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i'm confused.

 

[bacienvu88]

Now I have the twisted idea of doing a traditional/historical harem game--but from the perspective of one of the women in the harem, or even a "unique" perspective (i.e. a palace eunuch). Perhaps giving the player a choice of male or female protagonist.

Playing as a eunuch in a porn game would be interesting. I don't think it will go well with the anti-NTR crowd though.

 

[Dragon59]

Playing as a eunuch in a porn game would be interesting. I don't think it will go well with the anti-NTR crowd though.

From what I've read, it is possible for a eunuch to achieve an erection, but it's not easy. Nevertheless, some harem women did risk it. Of course, with no tentacles*, no chance of impregnation.

*One of these days, I want an ancient Greek character named Testacles (Tess-ta-cleese).

 

[TranscendentThots]

Obviously this is going to come down to personal preference, but I think the game has gone out of its way to give us options that very precisely control what the MC does with the numerous LIs. I've certainly enjoyed the hell out of my solo-Lily run: that's definitely not the game was 'expects' to be played, yet there are a still a few good moments that cater to the MC being very loyal. The MC does still have some stray "uh oh, she's on to me!" thoughts cross his mind from time to time when he genuinely has nothing to hide, but no one's perfect. It's certainly nowhere near the predatory, borderline misogynistic introspection I've seen elsewhere.

As far as Bella and the will subplot in particular, I think it's been handled very well overall. Bella's behavior has been suspicious for a while, and her position in the narrative (with the MC automatically confiding his plans to hack Elaine's computer only to find nothing once Bella does it for him) made her even more suspicious from a meta perspective. But is that a bug, or a feature? Yes, she comes on strong to the MC, but if that fits both her character and her roll in the story, what's the problem? It's not like you're starved for alternative targets if you turn her down. And in the end you can still turn her down if you want to.

Wait... that's all you guys want? Opt-in platonic hangout scenes that fill as much word-count as the sex scenes they're replacing? Anybody can write that!

Very first choice when you launch a new game:

• I want to see more sex scenes.
• I want to learn more about the plot, characters and world.
• Ask me in-game every time there's an option to do one or the other.

(Naturally, almost everybody's going to probably pick option 3. But making it possible to pre-select the choices like this makes it easier for the dev to flesh out both sides to roughly equal length.)

 

[TranscendentThots]

This reminds me of a submarine hunt game that a friend built, way back when we were both working in the defence industry.
He insisted on making it realistic, which meant that you could actually play the game for hours and hours without finding a sub, because, quite realistically, most of the time there were no submarine there...

Needless to say, that game didn't make him rich.

Was it that crazy near-future Sci-Fi super-cavitating sub thing? Where, like, the high concept was subs that can churn the water so hard, it cavitates all of the water, creating a pocket of gas around the submarine and effectively turning it into an underwater fighter jet temporarily? That concept was wacky as hell, but it looked like it would have been so much fun to play. Looked cool, too. Easily my most-anticipated military contractor propaganda disguised as a video game of that decade.

Too bad the project got cancelled, so there was no reason to finish making the game. I assume the conversation went something like :
"Wait, it's pretty loud when it goes supersonic. So wouldn't the enemy know right where it is when it drops back down to Silent Running speeds?"
"Wait... doesn't that mean it's only useful for a single surprise attack that leaves no survivors?"
"Wait. if it's for a surprise attack, and it might be destroyed if any of the enemy survives, why not make it unmanned in the first place?"
"Wait! We'd have to launch the unmanned strike drone from a stealthier traditional submarine already in the area."
"WAIT! We already have that! It's called a torpedo! Just stick the screw on the front and make it spin faster!"

 

[jufot]

So it was a tentative rec before. How is it now? I have a feeling I won't like it unless the dialogue is really on point.

Oh, it was very good, nicely done Ezykeyal! OP hasn't been updated since October last year, so I'm happy to finally add another game

I do have two little pieces of criticism, though. First, this triangle thingy is way too big and jumpy. It's quite distracting:

Maybe it could be next to the phone, half the size, and 90% slower?

Second, some of the gym characters felt a bit too clichéd. Diana is quite over the top with her Cockney accent and especially her attitude, but then Tamika is also the stereotypical American taking offence at being called a yank (In the UK/NZ/AUS, yank refers to all Americans and is not derogatory) Alexa, who kicked out Evelyn for literally no reason, should have jumped on Tamika for being 'soft'.

Still, this chapter was great. I'm looking forward to Alexa's redemption arc. Damn you for that cliffhanger, though

 

[Ezykeyal]

Oh, it was very good, nicely done Ezykeyal! OP hasn't been updated since October last year, so I'm happy to finally add another game

I do have two little pieces of criticism, though. First, this triangle thingy is way too big and jumpy. It's quite distracting:
View attachment 2335438
Maybe it could be next to the phone, half the size, and 90% slower?

Second, some of the gym characters felt a bit too clichéd. Diana is quite over the top with her Cockney accent and especially her attitude, but then Tamika is also the stereotypical American taking offence at being called a yank (In the UK/NZ/AUS, yank refers to all Americans and is not derogatory) Alexa, who kicked out Evelyn for literally no reason, should have jumped on Tamika for being 'soft'.

Still, this chapter was great. I'm looking forward to Alexa's redemption arc. Damn you for that cliffhanger, though

Thanks for taking the time to play and I'm honored to finally make it on the list!

The triangle was much smaller in the original release, but when my wife played it, she constantly missed it and was thinking it may be a bigger issue. I can reduce it in size again since nobody ever really complained about it in the first place.

When I looked into the 'yank' thing, there was a clear distinction on how that was being perceived, depending which state you were from. Although not immediately clear without refering back to visual references, Evelyn doesn't always participate, which is what Alexa refers back to. I guess it could have become more obvious through more interaction, I want to bring the point across how random, unhinged and unpredictable Alexa can be.

 

[Deleted member 5467075]

Ezykeyal I haven't had a chance to play the new update yet, but I loved the first release. In skimming through the game thread just now, I do notice that you seem to have attracted a disproportionately large number of moronic commenters, but don't let that bug you. If you made Jufot's list then you are on the right track.

 

[jufot]

When I looked into the 'yank' thing, there was a clear distinction on how that was being perceived, depending which state you were from.

Huh, now that I looked it up, apparently it's a north vs south thing. I've never seen anyone here in the UK be aware of that. It's just a cheeky way of saying American here

Although not immediately clear without refering back to visual references, Evelyn doesn't always participate, which is what Alexa refers back to.

Yeah, I would have never got that in a million years if you hadn't mentioned it. It might be a tad too subtle

I guess it could have become more obvious through more interaction, I want to bring the point across how random, unhinged and unpredictable Alexa can be.

All the more reason she should jump on Tamika, no?

 

[Ezykeyal]

Huh, now that I looked it up, apparently it's a north vs south thing. I've never seen anyone here in the UK be aware of that. It's just a cheeky way of saying American here

And that's precisely how that conversation goes!

Yeah, I would have never got that in a million years if you hadn't mentioned it. It might be a tad too subtle

Hmmm yes, agreed.

All the more reason she should jump on Tamika, no?

You're not wrong, she could have... still can...

 

[Ezykeyal]

Ezykeyal I haven't had a chance to play the new update yet, but I loved the first release. In skimming through the game thread just now, I do notice that you seem to have attracted a disproportionately large number of moronic commenters, but don't let that bug you. If you made Jufot's list then you are on the right track.

Thank you!

I think the amount of negative comments aren't as many as the supporting ones, but they stand out because they're a bit extreme. I know I shouldn't be bothered, but I just never anticipated the 'I can't play as a black guy' thing and it bugs me.

 

[desmosome]

Thank you!

I think the amount of negative comments aren't as many as the supporting ones, but they stand out because they're a bit extreme. I know I shouldn't be bothered, but I just never anticipated the 'I can't play as a black guy' thing and it bugs me.

I kinda dropped BADIK and all other college games that are emulating it, so I was playing this with a critical eye. But I liked it well enough and could definitely see that it would appeal to most people who give it a chance.

I got to the Gym scene, but upon realizing that I could have had the crazy girl as the roommate instead of the boxer, I put the game on hold and decided to come back to it later.

So the very first thing I noticed was... hmmm these black kids are speaking with no hint of ebonics (or AAVE if we gotta be PC). Just bear with me before dismissing it as racism. They are also into metal. And we see a suburban neighborhood and a nice old granny (who does have a distinct speech pattern that could fit her role). Now the picture is more clear, and this is confirmed later by the story and the pictures we see.

That said, I'm not sure if people who are living in the era of smartphones and the internet could be totally isolated from their cultural heritage, especially since both MC and his home girl are emulating the fashion styles that are popular in their culture. I can definitely see that they grew up in a nice neighborhood, probably around white people, with their grandma and her white husband. So I can certainly see the possibility that MC just never developed many different speech patterns. If that's what you were going for, it's all good.

But the actual point I wanted to make is about

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in speech. Pretty much everyone does this. They have different speech patterns (word choices, tone, inflection, accent, etc) based on their current surroundings and people they are talking to. You meet your southern relatives and all of a sudden, your accent is back. You talk to your friends and slang/curses are being thrown around like it's nothing. You are at work in your office and you are speaking with the expected professionalism. We all do this (regardless of your race) either deliberately or subconsciously.

When it comes to black characters in AVNs, the default is just incredibly racist. The BBC thugs that rape your women. I personally like NTR and BBC tropes as a fetish (plz don't judge lol, it's just all in fictional porn, I don't mix porn with real life), but it's absolutely, undeniably racist to both blacks and whites. So when a dev tries to tackle a black MC who isn't a BBC trope, they may try to over correct. Basically making them indistinguishable from a white MC in all but color. I think true representation would be something more honest. In most cases, minorities live through different experiences that shape who they are, and these experiences are something worth exploring.

On a different note, I definitely felt like the relationship building seems to progress at light speed. It's been like one day on campus and Natasha and Lilly are all over him. It's not something I particularly mind, but it did seem a bit unnatural (maybe not for Lilly though lol).

Lastly, I was going for courting both Nat and Lilly (and pretty much everything that moves) because I just like to see drama. I am naturally curious on how a dev will handle such situations when going for a more grounded approach (ie. not harem). Not hurting Nat is quite a prominent plot point, so I'm looking forward to seeing how the manwhore playstyle will pan out in the end heh.

 

[Ezykeyal]

So the very first thing I noticed was... hmmm these black kids are speaking with no hint of ebonics (or AAVE if we gotta be PC). Just bear with me before dismissing it as racism. They are also into metal. And we see a suburban neighborhood and a nice old granny (who does have a distinct speech pattern that could fit her role). Now the picture is more clear, and this is confirmed later by the story and the pictures we see.

That said, I'm not sure if people who are living in the era of smartphones and the internet could be totally isolated from their cultural heritage, especially since both MC and his home girl are emulating the fashion styles that are popular in their culture. I can definitely see that they grew up in a nice neighborhood, probably around white people, with their grandma and her white husband. So I can certainly see the possibility that MC just never developed many different speech patterns. If that's what you were going for, it's all good.

Forgive me if I misunderstand and the following is not meant as a direct attack on you, but if the MC was white, would you make the same break-down and start asking questions?

The thing is, there's such a large variety of people, why is the expectation always a stereotype? I'm 40 years old, met a crazy amount of different people in my life from all kinds of different cultures. About 10 years ago, I worked in Germany for a few years (after having worked in the UK for 7 years) and I worked with a lovely chap, who was originally from Jamaica, but practically grew up in the UK. Tall guy with the longest dreads and an interesting accent. Guess what music he loved most? Yes, every time we went out to the city for drinks and a laugh, we ended up going to a metal bar... This is just one person I met, I can tell you about a few more.

I'm interested in this stereotypical perception and I know it well, but I also know different, and that to me, is normal. I sincerely hope one day, people can be seen just as that, people... without having to be labeled as having to behave a certain way, just because their skin color is different and goes against certain 'expectations'.

But the actual point I wanted to make is about

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in speech. Pretty much everyone does this. They have different speech patterns (word choices, tone, inflection, accent, etc) based on their current surroundings and people they are talking to. You meet your southern relatives and all of a sudden, your accent is back. You talk to your friends and slang/curses are being thrown around like it's nothing. You are at work in your office and you are speaking with the expected professionalism. We all do this (regardless of your race) either deliberately or subconsciously.

This is a fascinating point, that rings 100% true with me, as a person having grown up in different places. Moving from one place with an intense and relatively unknown accent from growing up, to a place with a completely different one where all the kids start taking the piss out of you, because of the accent and slang you use. Since I was the minority, I had to adapt and change.

When it comes to black characters in AVNs, the default is just incredibly racist. The BBC thugs that rape your women. I personally like NTR and BBC tropes as a fetish (plz don't judge lol, it's just all in fictional porn, I don't mix porn with real life), but it's absolutely, undeniably racist to both blacks and whites. So when a dev tries to tackle a black MC who isn't a BBC trope, they may try to over correct. Basically making them indistinguishable from a white MC in all but color. I think true representation would be something more honest. In most cases, minorities live through different experiences that shape who they are, and these experiences are something worth exploring. No, they are not all gonna be their stereotypes, but "colorblind casting" that we see often in Hollywood these days feel closer to tokenism than representation to me.

I agree, it's pretty disgusting and I get messages occasionally like that (If I can please make the MC a cuck).
As per my earlier point, I'm not trying to over-correct anything. It's just another guy, from another place, from another life, with his own developed tastes and hobbies.... as simple as that.

On a different note, I definitely felt like the relationship building seems to progress at light speed. It's been like one day on campus and Natasha and Lilly are all over him. It's not something I particularly mind, but it did some a bit unnatural.

Yes, this was actually something that concerned me. Lily was always supposed to be the 'easier' one. Natasha is much slower, but in general it's still quick. I've not explained anywhere in the game, that the maximum friendship score is 10. The trick is going to be, to keep it there, or at least aim as high as you can... if you want that. I believe, I failed a little in introducing enough 'negative' options, so the ramp up feels only progressive, and that is something I'll have to think about twice in the next episode.

Lastly, I was going for courting both Nat and Lilly (and pretty much everything that moves) because I just like to see drama. I am naturally curious on how a dev will handle such situations when going for a more grounded approach (ie. not harem). Not hurting Nat is quite a prominent plot point, so I'm looking forward to seeing how the manwhore playstyle will pan out in the end heh.

Oh believe me, you've got it coming if you keep going down this route!

 

[desmosome]

Forgive me if I misunderstand and the following is not meant as a direct attack on you, but if the MC was white, would you make the same break-down and start asking questions?

Keep in mind, it was the process of identifying the MC's background and characteristics. Stereotypes exist for a reason. I'm Asian, and I fall under a lot of streotypes, as does most everyone I know in one way or another. Acknowledging stereotypes is not inherently racist. If you make judgements against the individual based on the stereotypes of the group, that's racist. And viewing innocent stereotypes such as speech patterns or the food they eat as something negative is racist. We could expect 2 black people (or Mexicans or Indians, or stereotypical Texans/Bostonians/etc) speaking with each other at home to have a certain type of speech pattern. Just like we might expect a certain style of rapport between close friends or siblings. When it deviates from what you might expect, you could think about what their experiences have been. No, not in that, "Oh... these people are so well spoken" kind of way. But more like where did they grow up? What is their relationship? What was their social environment? What was their family life? Who did they hang out with? And to your credit, you made a very reasonable backstory (without getting into some insane exposition, bravo!) that could explain why this MC speaks the way he does.

Still, your question is not entirely unfounded. I might have just accepted a lack of distinct speech pattern that factors into characterization as the usual limitation of the writer if it was another white MC. Let's be honest, most devs, even ones with a firm grasp on the language have trouble writing natural dialogues (though I'm not a dev, I certainly wouldn't be able to pull it off lol). And the speech pattern is usually just one for every character, the writer's own speech pattern. Things like code-switching is even rarer. Perhaps it was a double standard, yes.

For the record, I did not find that your dialogues were lacking compared to any other VNs of this type. It's certainly better than the majority. Plus, I actually did notice some speech patterns that complement the characters and their dynamics.

As a minority myself, I just find the notion of "we are all just people" to be an idealized way to look at the world. Maybe in the far future, race will no longer be a defining characteristic that shapes our life experiences, but we are not there yet. Of course, not everyone of a certain race goes through the same stuff. Some certainly will fit in just fine with everyone else and live a life that is indistinguishable from a white person or anyone else for that matter. However, a story like that is just playing it safe, IMHO (honestly, no offense to you at all).

 

[Tlaero]

So the very first thing I noticed was... hmmm these black kids are speaking with no hint of ebonics (or AAVE if we gotta be PC). Just bear with me before dismissing it as racism. They are also into metal.

I haven't had a chance to play the new episode yet, but the metal part was in the first episode, so I feel comfortable commenting on that. I'm not black, but I am a demographic where being a metalhead is at least unexpected. My first thought on reading this was, "But metalized versions of Hall of the Mountain King rock!" My second thought was, "Rage Against the Machine." My third was, "Living Color," although they're more rock than metal.

Desmosome, I think your post was very well reasoned and polite. I'm not trying to suggest that a few counterexamples invalidate your points. But I will say that those were the reasons the metal part didn't seem off to me.


Ezykeyal it pisses me off that people are telling you they won't play your game because the MC is black. I sort of get people who won't play as a woman (even though they expect me to play as a man), but refusing to play as a black man? <sighs>

Tlaero