Recommending Story-first games

[desmosome]

@Ezykeyal it pisses me off that people are telling you they won't play your game because the MC is black. I sort of get people who won't play as a woman (even though they expect me to play as a man), but refusing to play as a black man? <sighs>

The vast majority of shit storm on this site happens because of self inserters and their entitlement. This is no exception.

 

[Dragon59]

Dragon59 said:
Obviously this is going to come down to personal preference, but I think the game has gone out of its way to give us options that very precisely control what the MC does with the numerous LIs. I've certainly enjoyed the hell out of my solo-Lily run: that's definitely not the game was 'expects' to be played, yet there are a still a few good moments that cater to the MC being very loyal. The MC does still have some stray "uh oh, she's on to me!" thoughts cross his mind from time to time when he genuinely has nothing to hide, but no one's perfect. It's certainly nowhere near the predatory, borderline misogynistic introspection I've seen elsewhere.

As far as Bella and the will subplot in particular, I think it's been handled very well overall. Bella's behavior has been suspicious for a while, and her position in the narrative (with the MC automatically confiding his plans to hack Elaine's computer only to find nothing once Bella does it for him) made her even more suspicious from a meta perspective. But is that a bug, or a feature? Yes, she comes on strong to the MC, but if that fits both her character and her roll in the story, what's the problem? It's not like you're starved for alternative targets if you turn her down. And in the end you can still turn her down if you want to.

Wait... that's all you guys want? Opt-in platonic hangout scenes that fill as much word-count as the sex scenes they're replacing? Anybody can write that!

Very first choice when you launch a new game:

• I want to see more sex scenes.
• I want to learn more about the plot, characters and world.
• Ask me in-game every time there's an option to do one or the other.

(Naturally, almost everybody's going to probably pick option 3. But making it possible to pre-select the choices like this makes it easier for the dev to flesh out both sides to roughly equal length.)

First question: Whom did you quote in my name? I don't remember ever writing that text.

On this general topic, I would consider platonic scenes as part of adding depth to the story. For instance, if there is a mystery to be solved, a platonic friend might be able to advance the story, the solving, without having to spread her legs for the MC. I can also see a game mechanic where how the MC treats Ace and disinterested characters will have a significant influence on success (sexually and overall goals).

Since we're talking about Story-First games, part of that is that sometimes the narrative takes precedence over sex scenes.

 

[Dragon59]

Ezykeyal it pisses me off that people are telling you they won't play your game because the MC is black. I sort of get people who won't play as a woman (even though they expect me to play as a man), but refusing to play as a black man? <sighs>

Tlaero

I may be running into a problem with my games. Perhaps because of my level of gender non-conforming (I was never comfortable in what we'd now call "the manosphere"), I seem to be more drawn to writing woman-centered stories.

 

[Impenitent]

So the very first thing I noticed was... hmmm these black kids are speaking with no hint of ebonics.

I gotta tell you, my man: if that was the first thing you noticed, then you haven't known very many black people and this is probably not an opinion you should be sharing in public.

 

[jamdan]

Ezykeyal , there are people who seek out black MC games since they are so uncommon. Maybe post your game in these threads since they are fairly recent.

https://f95zone.to/threads/are-there-any-games-with-a-black-main-character.27787/
https://f95zone.to/threads/lookong-for-games-with-black-male-mc.124614/
https://f95zone.to/threads/any-game-where-youre-black-or-an-mc-of-colour.56929/


99% sure there was a thread on here about the lack of black MC games too. Can't find it though.

 

[desmosome]

Ezykeyal , there are people who seek out black MC games since they are so uncommon. Maybe post your game in these threads since they are fairly recent.

https://f95zone.to/threads/are-there-any-games-with-a-black-main-character.27787/
https://f95zone.to/threads/lookong-for-games-with-black-male-mc.124614/
https://f95zone.to/threads/any-game-where-youre-black-or-an-mc-of-colour.56929/


99% sure there was a thread on here about the lack of black MC games too. Can't find it though.

And Muscle Women. There are people specifically looking for that.

 

[Dragon59]

And Muscle Women. There are people specifically looking for that.

There was one poster in My New Family who claimed that muscles on women made him vomit. I think seeing a woman with no muscles on her body would affect me likewise. I mean loose skin hanging on a skeleton without muscles. No thanks.

 

[TranscendentThots]

First question: Whom did you quote in my name? I don't remember ever writing that text.

ename144, apparently. I had to search the forums for a chunk of the quote just to find it again. My apologies.

I overcooked the copypasta.

On this general topic, I would consider platonic scenes as part of adding depth to the story. For instance, if there is a mystery to be solved, a platonic friend might be able to advance the story, the solving, without having to spread her legs for the MC. I can also see a game mechanic where how the MC treats Ace and disinterested characters will have a significant influence on success (sexually and overall goals).

Since we're talking about Story-First games, part of that is that sometimes the narrative takes precedence over sex scenes.

Sure, but part of delivering on fantasy of any sort is selective deviation from reality. Since it's gradually sinking into my thick head that you guys are talking about different writing goals, not just better execution or polish, I tried to think of a way to solve for both systemically on my end.

The normal solution, giving the player the option to skip the sex scenes, or providing a youtube-friendly "Streamer Mode" that automatically skips the sex scenes, doesn't work because it's unsatisfying for the player. It causes these sudden gaps in the story where it fades to black. I had to fill those gaps with something, or else it's not well-written. Why not add platonic hangouts or arguments or other shenanigans? The sorts of interactions you'd expect to play out in this moment between these characters in this place if they weren't that into each other.

It almost sounds like you're asking for a "surprise me" button at the start, where the game selects a subset of LIs, randomly or otherwise, and they're on the table, while the rest aren't that into you. Just so platonic relationships in the game can exist, but not be something that the player is forced to opt into.

Or... since I'd probably write a "critical path" around a canonical "best" LI for the first pass before adding in all the choices, maybe I should just toggle on sex for that character and platonic hangouts for everybody else?

The reason it's described as extra story, character and setting information in the game's UI is to give you guys an incentive to click on it, since those are the reasons you usually opt into avoidable sex scenes you allegedly didn't want to see in the first place. You can pick at the start, or pick per-sex-scene, but you can't have both at once, because they're fundamentally opposed writing goals.

I'm trying really, really hard to view this problem through a lens that doesn't reduce the scope of possible solutions down to "write for us, not them."

 

[Ezykeyal]

Ezykeyal it pisses me off that people are telling you they won't play your game because the MC is black. I sort of get people who won't play as a woman (even though they expect me to play as a man), but refusing to play as a black man? <sighs>

Tlaero

It's an odd thing, but if there's a character creation/selection in any 3D game, I tend to go for a female option. If there's some form of romance options, it will almost always be another woman, if it accommodates for that. I guess the best example would be the Bioware games (Mass Effect, Dragon Age or even the earlier titles).

 

[jufot]

It's an odd thing, but if there's a character creation/selection in any 3D game, I tend to go for a female option. If there's some form of romance options, it will almost always be another woman, if it accommodates for that. I guess the best example would be the Bioware games (Mass Effect, Dragon Age or even the earlier titles).

I'm exactly the same, and it's surprising how often I see this sentiment from a presumably straight male audience. Someone should look into that.

I've played the ME trilogy 3 or 4 times, but always as femshep. It's not exactly a conscious choice either.

 

[bacienvu88]

I'm exactly the same, and it's surprising how often I see this sentiment from a presumably straight male audience. Someone should look into that.

One reason for me is that I prefer to look at the backside of a woman over a man.

 

[bacienvu88]

I've played the ME trilogy 3 or 4 times, but always as femshep. It's not exactly a conscious choice either.

For ME specifically I also have the reason that I much prefer Jennifer Hale over Mark Meer as Shepard VA.

 

[Hildegardt]

I'm exactly the same, and it's surprising how often I see this sentiment from a presumably straight male audience. Someone should look into that.

I've played the ME trilogy 3 or 4 times, but always as femshep. It's not exactly a conscious choice either.

I think there are statistics out there that show that femshep is the preferred canon, even though most players played as maleshep.

 

[Tlaero]

I'm exactly the same, and it's surprising how often I see this sentiment from a presumably straight male audience. Someone should look into that.

I've played the ME trilogy 3 or 4 times, but always as femshep. It's not exactly a conscious choice either.

I've talked to men who convincingly play female characters in MMORPGs (when I figure them out, that is) and often they tell me that they want to (to an admittedly small degree) see how the other half lives (and are treated). I find that quite endearing.

I also get bacienvu88's reason a lot too. Considering my stance on the subject, I find that appropriate too.

As for ME, I played a paragon maleshep and a renegade femshep through the series.

Tlaero

 

[desmosome]

I've talked to men who convincingly play female characters in MMORPGs (when I figure them out, that is) and often they tell me that they want to (to an admittedly small degree) see how the other half lives (and are treated). I find that quite endearing.

I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone doing this in MMOs, but I've been under the impression that this behavior was basicaly trying to cash in on the parasocial simps as a dude.

 

[ename144]

Wait... that's all you guys want? Opt-in platonic hangout scenes that fill as much word-count as the sex scenes they're replacing? Anybody can write that!

Very first choice when you launch a new game:

• I want to see more sex scenes.
• I want to learn more about the plot, characters and world.
• Ask me in-game every time there's an option to do one or the other.

(Naturally, almost everybody's going to probably pick option 3. But making it possible to pre-select the choices like this makes it easier for the dev to flesh out both sides to roughly equal length.)

It might be even easier than you think, because it's not a matter of matching word count per se. In the Where the Heart Is example, the game had Katie and her BFFs (Lily and Debbie) spending the night at the MC's beach house so Debbie could finally admit she was crazy for Lily. The situation was clearly designed to play out as a long-teased orgy with the MC, Debbie and Lily, with Katie potentially joining if you were romancing her. And it is indeed a very hot scene.

But the game was smart enough to realize not everyone might want that, so there are some outs. If you were romancing Katie you could just spend the night with her in a separate room instead (no sex, but that was to cut down on rendering time). If you were secretly fooling around with only Debbie or Lily (not both), you could have the MC declare his love for his girl alone, then leave three girls for the night so they could discuss their feelings about the MC's newly minted girlfriend on their own. And there's even the option to leave the house to the girls without making commitments to any of them, which is handy if you're trying to court one of the game's many other girls.

All in all, the alternative content for faithful boyfriends is a handful of lines of dialog and maybe a separate render, nowhere near the epic sex fest you can get on the Debbie+Lily path. But what matters is that you have the option. It really helps sell the illusion that you are actually controlling the MC, rather than just going from sex scene to sex scene - or worse, that you're playing the game *wrong*.

Which isn't to say I'd mind getting more unique sex scenes as well (say, taking the time to give Katie a custom solo scene in the above example), but in the end that sort of alternate content always comes at a cost. I accept that we need to ration resources for what are expected to be relatively unpopular paths, but that's no excuse to completely ignore those paths when they would be a logical fit for the in-game situation. Sometimes it really is the thought that counts.

 

[TranscendentThots]

I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone doing this in MMOs, but I've been under the impression that this behavior was basicaly trying to cash in on the parasocial simps as a dude.

For my part, I blame the game. It knew the risks when it gave me a choice of which ass to look at for 60 hours of grinding.

 

[jufot]

A Long Journey's new chapter, Episode Fomalhaut, is out on

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!

 

[desmosome]

For my part, I blame the game. It knew the risks when it gave me a choice of which ass to look at for 60 hours of grinding.

The topic was about dudes masquerading as girls in MMOs (to get attention and free shit, apparently). Well, back in the day it was quite easy. I'm not sure what the norm is these days with discord and teamspeak.

Not talking about just playing a female character, AFAIK.

And I guess we should also make the distinction between role play servers and normal servers.

 

[TranscendentThots]

Ahhh- my bad.