Recommending Story-first games

[Tlaero]

I totally get what you mean. I made it that way so that (when the Transition from 3dcg to 2d happens) there won't be any doubts on the audience's mind, whether that was chandra or not. But there must be other ways achieve that. I'll see if I can come up with something interesting.

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Tlaero

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

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Tlaero

Oh, in that case, I'm actually glad the intended message was conveyed properly.

Right now, you and Jufot are the only two people who have given their thoughts on the update. (Excluding the usual, "Don't release your game on this site if it doesn’t have porn." comments on the game's main thread, that is.)

And funnily, both of you have had the exact opposite experience with regards to that scene.

So, I'll just sit on the idea for a little, and go with whichever approach feels the best when making the next patch.

Again, thank you for the feedback. It really helps a lot

 

[UnkownRoboCommie]

any recs yall have for a story focused game with a female protagonist that don't get randomly misogynistic like so many porn games do for some strange reason?

 

[Tlaero]

any recs yall have for a story focused game with a female protagonist that isn't randomly misogynistic like so many are for some strange reason?

I've done a few of those. The relatively recent ones are:
Life Changes for Keeley if you do the Keeley path. https://f95zone.to/threads/life-changes-for-keeley-v1-0-tora-productions.56808/

And Gemini if you do the Trisha path. https://f95zone.to/threads/gemini-v1-0-tora-productions.210888/

Tlaero

 

[UnkownRoboCommie]

idk if it's been mentioned yet but I'd like to recommended The Last Sovereign https://f95zone.to/threads/the-last-sovereign-v0-74-7-sierra-lee.616/

it's a story first deconstruction and reconstruction of the genre that has quite good writing and a very solid plot not based in "go have sex lol"

 

[Jaike]

It has a FMC! I remember you had quite an opinion on most of the FMC in the games out there. Would you say this one does not fall into one of the categories you shared before?

I've been avoiding most (if not all) of the VNs with FeMC for very similar reasons as the ones you explained, but this being recommended by you makes me curious about how the story goes and how the FeMC behaves.

Ehhh... I have dozens if not hundreds of posts where I give my blunt opinions about female-protagonist games, so it's kinda hard to know what you have in mind here.

But I'll try to be a little helpful, with minor spoilers:
There was no sexual intercourse in the game when I tried it, so it wasn't a RIL game, and there was no sexual partner. So it doesn't fall in the "garbage male partner" trap at all, and avoids all my complaints about partners in these games.
The protagonist is passive and not strongwilled, but that's the entire point of the game AND it fits her personality perfectly so that'd be a useless criticism here (and that's a criticism that's more for female-protagonist games in general than for 1 work).
It is a DID game (in the bondage sense), but a pretty soft one.
The characters aren't 1-dimensional or Mary Sues.
It isn't about corruption.

I think that covers most angles, at least implicitly.

That was very nice. I've seen two endings, and that feels enough. I didn't run into anything too objectionable (though I can imagine darker endings I've avoided), so I'd be curious to know what you didn't like about it.

If you don't mind I'll wait a little longer before I give my opinions. I think we saw the same 2 endings, tho. Or not very different ones.

any recs yall have for a story focused game with a female protagonist that don't get randomly misogynistic like so many porn games do for some strange reason?

Beside Tlaero's games with a female protagonist:
Ladykiller in a Bind, A Summer's End, Teen Zombie in your Cabin. Games with lesbian protagonists typically don't have that problem. Unless the protagonist is a lezdomme, usually.

 

[UnkownRoboCommie]

corruption can be real bad yeah

it's a shame because there's some corruption I really like but most corruption I absolutely hate

I think Seeds of Chaos (solid story focused game actually) is the only one that does it actually well. It's driven by the person getting "corrupted" and it's portrayed as them becoming their full self instead of just becoming a worse person or changing themselves for some misogynist sex thing

 

[365 others]

Ehhh... I have dozens if not hundreds of posts where I give my blunt opinions about female-protagonist games, so it's kinda hard to know what you have in mind here.

I don't recall the whole thing, but the main points I remember were the FeMC being one or a combination of:

- Lust sex-starved brain-rotted characters.
- Dumber than a rock (although IMHO this can also apply to male MCs).
- Fall in the damsel in distress category.

It was a long-ish post/comment, and I don't recall all of it, but these were the points I remember.

Overall I have played some games with FeMC, but so far I haven't quite clicked with any due to some variation of the previous points.

Sadly, good male MCs are also really difficult to find these days, and more and more they share the same issues as the FeMCs; so I'm having difficulties finding VNs that I can enjoy.

 

[Birdnman993]

They are recommending good FMC but I don't see anyone mentioning "Luna's Fall from Grace" or "Panacea"

 

[365 others]

They are recommending good FMC but I don't see anyone mentioning "Luna's Fall from Grace" or "Panacea"

4.5 stars average review, but only 54 votes since 2021. Is it good? What did you like most about it?

 

[Birdnman993]

4.5 stars average review, but only 54 votes since 2021. Is it good? What did you like most about it?

Well, the FMC has many paths, you can seek to be a vigilante or someone who prioritizes their own benefit, she is one of the toughest FMCs I have ever seen, literally a BADASS who opposes a bunch of mobsters, corrupt police, criminals and clandestine organizations, many of whom have an ultra-macho attitude it should be noted, but that is only a weakness that she can use to her advantage at times.

There is also a paranormal element that involves mystical entities that date back to medieval times, there is also a lot of lesbian sex that never hurts.

 

[365 others]

Well, the FMC has many paths, you can seek to be a vigilante or someone who prioritizes their own benefit, she is one of the toughest FMCs I have ever seen, literally a BADASS who opposes a bunch of mobsters, corrupt police, criminals and clandestine organizations, many of whom have an ultra-macho attitude it should be noted, but that is only a weakness that she can use to her advantage at times.

There is also a paranormal element that involves mystical entities that date back to medieval times, there is also a lot of lesbian sex that never hurts.

Ok, that sounds interesting. I'll get it and give it a try.
Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Saerwen]

Any FMC game that have attractive older man who is not a creepy old pervert? Dilf tag have mostly hobos/ugly bastards and I avoid them like plague.

 

[Jaike]

corruption can be real bad yeah

it's a shame because there's some corruption I really like but most corruption I absolutely hate

I think Seeds of Chaos (solid story focused game actually) is the only one that does it actually well. It's driven by the person getting "corrupted" and it's portrayed as them becoming their full self instead of just becoming a worse person or changing themselves for some misogynist sex thing

Seeds of Chaos sure has ambition with its plot. I think its story value suffers from the grimdark worldbuilding, but I'm picky with that. And it's better than the Book of Bondmaids. And it's pretty much all about cheating, netorase or netorare.

The NTR arc with Andras, well the part that's anviliously telegraphed on the non-netorare section, kinda cheats by imitating the Man with a Thousand Faces from harem games tho. He's a genocidal psycho when he's taking villages, and a romantic shy boy when he makes a move on the MC's wife. And he isn't characterised like a German extermination camp officer or similar.

People from this topic may want to be warned that you get rape dilemmas shoved in your face if you try to play a good arc btw. The Trumpy demon twins mind control a knightess who served under the MC, you get the choice if the MC is pushed into sex with her and cheats on his wife or lets her get gangraped by orcs. I quit it right there.

And don't get me wrong, I suspect I'd rate it like 4 out of 5 stars if I ever got to play it through. I just think those are the weak points.

I don't recall the whole thing, but the main points I remember were the FeMC being one or a combination of:

- Lust sex-starved brain-rotted characters.
- Dumber than a rock (although IMHO this can also apply to male MCs).
- Fall in the damsel in distress category.

It was a long-ish post/comment, and I don't recall all of it, but these were the points I remember.

Overall I have played some games with FeMC, but so far I haven't quite clicked with any due to some variation of the previous points.

Sadly, good male MCs are also really difficult to find these days, and more and more they share the same issues as the FeMCs; so I'm having difficulties finding VNs that I can enjoy.

Then it's either from the good, the bad and the fugly tropes topic or it's an early post in general discussions or this topic. That'd likely be me complaining about RIL games (a type of Japanese shovelware), or RIL tropes in other games. Anyway I obviously don't think that's true for all female-protagonist games, but probably for a majority. But the female protagonist games that are safe are usually exclusively lesbian. Seems adding a male "lewdable" character to a female protagonist game tends to unleash the raging coomer in many male devs.

Tbh I put up with a lot of bullshit as long as it's avoidable.

Well, the FMC has many paths, you can seek to be a vigilante or someone who prioritizes their own benefit, she is one of the toughest FMCs I have ever seen, literally a BADASS who opposes a bunch of mobsters, corrupt police, criminals and clandestine organizations, many of whom have an ultra-macho attitude it should be noted, but that is only a weakness that she can use to her advantage at times.

There is also a paranormal element that involves mystical entities that date back to medieval times, there is also a lot of lesbian sex that never hurts.

I used to like it, but the forced submission sections, that happen on all routes, were too much for me, especially cause some of those were iirc rape with sex toys.

Any FMC game that have attractive older man who is not a creepy old pervert? Dilf tag have mostly hobos/ugly bastards and I avoid them like plague.

Can't think of literally a single one. I think all older men in GGGB and Casual Desires are creeps?

 

[jufot]

But the female protagonist games that are safe are usually exclusively lesbian. Seems adding a male "lewdable" character to a female protagonist game tends to unleash the raging coomer in many male devs.

Ain't that the fucking truth. It speaks volumes about the AVN ecosystem that only women developers seem capable of creating "safe" FMC games.

And no, "but it's avoidable" doesn't count.

 

[Canto Forte]

The old geezers are all revealed to be creeps who enjoy ”signing” young flames to shag - Picasso is the creepiest asshole around, second to Leonardo di Caprio, Brad pitt, you could stick Cosbi and many others in there.

You cannot build anything ”safe” with the ”old creepy bastard” trope in games where tropes need broad brushes to appeAL TO THE PLAYERS.

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Normal FMC trope is that she ”corrupts” the unsupecting younger dumb lass who is never any wiser.
Lez FMC are always aggressive to their spouses - it is how they get them to submit to them.

Seriously speking: if a girl who looks devine has simps by the truckload, why would she entertain a bully lez aggressive cougar?

When the woman has the pussy to crush all balls and tame them to her will - why bother with old and vile?

In a game where there are no stakes - every character is endeless and has nothing holding them back from being creepy, villainous and crude - which are traits that build draama and are fun to watch spiral down the drain - who cares about old and ”safe” serial hook up artists who are actually boring degenerates?

Do you?

 

[Birdnman993]

Any FMC game that have attractive older man who is not a creepy old pervert? Dilf tag have mostly hobos/ugly bastards and I avoid them like plague.

Thinking quickly, the only thing that comes to mind is Black Diamond, which I think fits what you're looking for, but unfortunately the game died.

At Naughty Lyanna there is a director who fits what you're looking for, but the content is very limited, the game is mostly about lesbians.

For more examples I would have to do a deeper search, but it's not something I see a lot of, for some reason the ones who dominate the scene are fat, ugly, manipulative old men.

I used to like it, but the forced submission sections, that happen on all routes, were too much for me, especially cause some of those were iirc rape with sex toys.

There are many things that are not pleasant, it is undeniable, but I try to see them as obstacles in the path of the FMC that it has to overcome to emerge victorious. If there is one thing I would have liked to change, it is the way it is treated by the Helios; I would have liked to be able to prioritize their well-being.

I think Seeds of Chaos (solid story focused game actually) is the only one that does it actually well. It's driven by the person getting "corrupted" and it's portrayed as them becoming their full self instead of just becoming a worse person or changing themselves for some misogynist sex thing

I really liked it when I played it years ago, I completed it up to the invasion of the city and the game died there for me, now they only release sexual scenes and more characters without advancing the plot, it's a shame.

 

[Saerwen]

Thinking quickly, the only thing that comes to mind is Black Diamond, which I think fits what you're looking for, but unfortunately the game died.

At Naughty Lyanna there is a director who fits what you're looking for, but the content is very limited, the game is mostly about lesbians.

Thank you nevertheless, but the new game in the making Scarlett Steele will have a handsome older man as a love interest!

 

[UnkownRoboCommie]

Seeds of Chaos sure has ambition with its plot. I think its story value suffers from the grimdark worldbuilding, but I'm picky with that. And it's better than the Book of Bondmaids. And it's pretty much all about cheating, netorase or netorare.

I'd pretty strongly disagree with this section? There are NTR paths, and the game starts with an option to disable anything that could be considered it (done because the devs got deathreats about it) but the game isn't about any of those things. One could I suppose argue that it's cheating because the two protagonists are married and have sex with other people, but that never turns into a cheating arc or even references the idea or what have you unless you intentionally destroy thier relationship by having Rowan be a dickhead. Their just two people who are married and have alot of sex with a variety of people. The singular only time outside of the specific and hard to get "destroy thier relationship" path that anything of the sort is even mentioned is very clearly about emotional intimacy

I wouldn't call it grimdark? Seems kinda just general if more unique then is standard for these games (which tend to be very paint by numbers with thier lore) midevial fantasy

 

[Tlaero]

Ain't that the fucking truth. It speaks volumes about the AVN ecosystem that only women developers seem capable of creating "safe" FMC games.

I feel that this is more a reflection on the player base than the developers. In my experience, the vast, vast, vast majority of AVN players are males who are not interested in playing as a female character. The next largest player segment is lesbian females. Then males who are willing to play as females. I've only run into a few heterosexual females who play, and most of them play with their spouses/significant others, so they're fine playing as the male. (I have a blind spot with gay men, though, because my artist doesn't want to make those scenes.)

As far as I can tell, I was the only heterosexual female to play those paths in Toro 7. (Though I know that people from the second and third group above played them. And I seriously appreciate you for it!)

It's hard to argue that we should spend more time making non-lesbian FMCs when the market for them is so small.

Contrast this to romance novels, where the vast majority of the customer base is heterosexual women. It's not a surprise that those novels get a lot more good female protagonists.

I do not believe that only female developers can make reasonable female driven games. I just think that most of the men who try are, themselves, in the first camp. So they don't make female protagonists. They make "Men with breasts." And, again, given the player base, that's probably the right choice, however much I personally don't like those games.

Tlaero