Recommending Story-first games

[boobsrcool]

Some of you may like A Foreign World. A very large first episode, with only one choice so far, about a bright young adult MC with some mysterious past in law enforcement who stumbles upon a group of female refugees from a parallel universe (which I guess will explain their willingness to become part of the expected harem later on, for cultural reasons). I know it doesn't sound too promising but the fact that the MC automatically declines three offers to have sex with those obviously broken girls means there's something more here than a fuckfest fantasy, as the MC also has his own issues. The girls have some unnatural powers and an all-mighty man from their world challenges the MC to be ready to fight for them in 40 days, which will be the driving force of the game (as well as their efforts to not be wiped out by Earth authorities before that fight). It's an ambitious project due to the large number of LI's involved but I guess the harem focus will make things a bit easier to manage in that regard.

very promising start great find

 

[jufot]

Price of Power also has

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out. I'm very happy with the direction the game seems to be heading in. This chapter includes yet another powerpoint presentation from Legacy, this time to the entire gang. These are quickly becoming one of my favourite parts of the game.

There is just something inherently hilarious about a combat AI trying to talk about the periodic table, radar, and satellites to a bunch of medieval peasants

 

[jufot]

Tentative recommendation for Princess Colleen. The story is being written by Arisushi, the author of One Night Stand, Caught in the Middle, and An encounter from the past, all of which I adore.

Colleen is the princess of a failing kingdom and the daughter of the ineffectual, cowardly Forest Whitaker King Vardal. To secure the kingdom's future, she is to be given to a neighbouring king, Byrin, as his seventh wife. She is not happy about it and muses about running off, but due to Vardal's overprotectiveness, she has never really left the castle walls and knows nothing about the outside world. At least she is not alone. She has a mother figure in Nadia, a loyal best friend in Maaya, and a protector in General Kandor.

It seems the story will be split into two paths - one where you run off, and one where you stay, with a total of 7 LIs, 3 on one route and 4 on the other.

I'm honestly a bit concerned about that. Seven is a big number for a non-harem game, especially when the story itself branches in such a major way. I hope scope creep doesn't become an issue. Still, I've never been let down by Arisushi before so I'm staying optimistic

This first version is only a short intro, but if you like the game, and maybe some of the dev's other work, please consider subscribing to his woefully underfunded

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.

 

[Sharinel]

I had forgotten what a dead-eyed stare Nicole Kidman has

 

[jufot]

I had forgotten what a dead-eyed stare Nicole Kidman has

Oh, she has other looks

 

[boobsrcool]

MYTHOS AND HILLSIDE PATCHES!!!

 

[jufot]

Hillside's latest chapter is great. It has some long anticipated scenes

 

[boobsrcool]

Hillside's latest chapter is great. It has some long anticipated scenes

I will have to replay the update then, Jufot Nelson. Just got one

 

[MrSilverLust]

I would have reconsider rejecting Jen if I had the foresight of where the story was heading.

Jen was really my type but even in-game, I'm not gonna cross a line i don't want to cross if the game gives me the choice (at least on main playthrough) and pursuing Jen Path is crossing that line for me.

Hi.

This is interesting to me because that’s exactly the kind of feeling I want to avoid as the game developer. Would you mind elaborating a bit? It’s just that I wouldn’t like to have players feeling like they got the short end of the stick when they thought they were doing the “right thing”.

---
For everyone else reading this, without going into too many details or spoilers, the premise of the situation is: is it okay for a psychologist to date an ex-patient? (assume a short time period since counseling ended, like a couple of weeks).
---


Back to camube. You say no, this is a red line for you… but then say that you’d reconsider the option given some recent story developments... I can see several scenarios:

1) It’s a red line you won’t cross because you think this leads to a relationship with fucked up power dynamics where one party knows way more about the other (or something of this sort where you’re certain it’d be really bad for the patient).

I can’t imagine any story developments that would make you reconsider your choice, because the issue will always be there. You can’t change the problems in the relationship dynamics.


2) it’s not that you think it’d be bad for the patient, (in fact it could very well be a happy relationship, you have nothing against it). You’re just worried for the psychologist career. In his shoes you’d never risk everything for a woman.

The thing is, the way you talk about the choice of not crossing a line, it makes it seem like it’s the noble action to take (that’s also how it is depicted in the game). But… isn’t this actually a coward position? You’re sacrificing the happiness of someone that you think would be happier in the relationship you rejected, just to not compromise your own safety. So, you put your safety above someone else’s happiness, and say you're doing the honorable thing...

If that's the case, I feel less bad for giving you the "short end of the stick" because it’s debatable that you were, in fact, doing the “right thing” for the “right reasons”.


3) there’s some other niche alternatives like, it being a red line not because of the patient or the psychologist, but because the problems that it could cause to anyone else involved in the clinic. Or just because you’re someone that believes the law should be followed 100% of the time. If that’s the case, the law says that no psychologist should date a ex-patient for a period of 2 years, so, nothing story-wise that happens in that time-frame should make you regret your initial decision. The only thing you can do is wait 2 years. After that is okay.


It’s possible that there are other alternatives, but I suspect it’s a mixture of 1) and 2) (with a bigger weight on 1?) which makes it more interesting that you’d kind of regret your initial choice, when, from my point-of-view at least, no amount of foresight should change your believe that this relationship is bad for the patient. Even if I write the most corny and happy relationship between then, it's a line you won't cross (in your main playthrough at least )

I hope that the MC is rewarded -- or properly punished -- for their restraint or lack thereof...

I don’t know about you, but I actually find it a bit boring those story tropes where

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and

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. That's also not very realistic (unfortunately).

But story-wise I find tropes like

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,

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, or

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.

(This comment does not contain spoilers and shouldn’t be taken seriously )

I'm hesitant to admit this, but I like Kim's path too.

Now I’m curious… is it the manly path or sensitive path?

(PS: I remember telling you some time ago you should embrace your cunning side... I’m glad it turned into a little guilty pleasure)

 

[jufot]

It’s just that I wouldn’t like to have players feeling like they got the short end of the stick when they thought they were doing the “right thing”.

I disagree with this, actually. Doing the right thing should be its own reward. Yes, not pursuing Jen is the right thing to do, and it means you don't get sex scenes with her. That's a good thing!

For everyone else reading this, without going into too many details or spoilers, the premise of the situation is: is it okay for a psychologist to date an ex-patient? (assume a short time period since counseling ended, like a couple of weeks).

It's never OK, and it's banned (for varying durations) by most licensing bodies for that reason.

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is a thing. The therapist can't tell, to a degree of professional certainty, that the client's feelings aren't merely a consequence of the intimate setting of therapy.

That's why I was happy to see MC quit his job but, if you are on Jen's path, he should explicitly acknowledge it as a big part of his decision.

The thing is, the way you talk about the choice of not crossing a line, it makes it seem like it’s the noble action to take (that’s also how it is depicted in the game). But… isn’t this actually a coward position? You’re sacrificing the happiness of someone that you think would be happier in the relationship you rejected, just to not compromise your own safety. So, you put your safety above someone else’s happiness, and say you're doing the honorable thing...

That sounds very much like the therapist saying "I decided to fuck my patient not because I wanted to, but because it's what was best for her! She came to me with her problems, and my dick was the cure!"

Now I’m curious… is it the manly path or sensitive path?

(PS: I remember telling you some time ago you should embrace your cunning side... I’m glad it turned into a little guilty pleasure)

The manly path. I don't mind adultery in the abstract, but the way she goes about it is so repulsive and yet so attractive, it became a guilty pleasure

 

[jufot]

Any thoughts on Mythos' latest update?

I really admire Nine's work. Their worldbuilding and character interactions have consistently been great, and this latest chapter turned out to be quite special.

I've written a lot here about LI agency and how much it means to me. It's so rare for a developer to have an LI have their own agenda and not follow the player's whims. Well, it seems Nine have decided to take that idea to its logical extreme. As things stand, all LIs (and many non-LIs) are acting at least a little bit suspiciously, and MC has been told that one or more of them might actively be conspiring against the MC.

All you get to do to is search for clues and decide who you trust or suspect. It's honestly a breath of fresh air for a whodunnit

 

[Raife]

I don’t know about you, but I actually find it a bit boring those story tropes where

You must be registered to see the links

and

You must be registered to see the links

. That's also not very realistic (unfortunately).

But story-wise I find tropes like

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

, or

You must be registered to see the links

.

(This comment does not contain spoilers and shouldn’t be taken seriously )

I agree with you entirely, but you're talking about advanced tropes relative to the norm in the adult game genre... and missed the context of our conversation.

Jufot and I were complaining that, in 99% of games, devs hesitate to inflict punishment on players that make obviously self-destructive choices. There's an annoying 'wish fulfillment/escapism' demand among a large cohort of players, particularly on this site, which sometimes causes devs to hesitate in applying obvious consequences to choices.

If my MC grabs a hot frying pan, it's reasonable to expect that he gets burned... unless you come up with a very good narrative device to explain why that did not happen. (Or, if my MC jumps in the sack with Kim... etc .) That's all: I'm certainly not suggesting that you adopt a boneheaded lightside/darkside, good choices/bad choices structure. That would be, as you say, very boring!

The tropes you mention are all brilliant: classic Raymond Chandler-esque stuff. They are the Philip Marlowe trinity. But... I'd add a fourth: the unexpected love/silver lining/redemption. Think Linda Loring in _the Long Goodbye_. Sometimes good guys finish first: not as a consequence of their choices, but in spite of them.

 

[Raife]

It's honestly a breath of fresh air for a whodunnit

You mean... a breath of fresh air in an adult game whodunit. The unreliable femme fatale is not exactly an unusual character in crime fiction... or film.

I _love_ unreliable, dangerous, powerful LIs with their own, ambiguous agendas... they are just annoyingly rare in adult games. Elsa, in _Corporate Culture_, is one of the few good examples.

 

[jufot]

You mean... a breath of fresh air in an adult game whodunit. The unreliable femme fatale is not exactly an unusual character in crime fiction... or film.

Of course

I _love_ unreliable, dangerous, powerful LIs with their own, ambiguous agendas...

This works best when there is an information or power asymmetry, which is the case for Mythos. The LIs are all more powerful and/or knowledgable than the MC, which makes it that much harder to decide what to do and whom to trust.

 

[boobsrcool]

Any thoughts on Mythos' latest update?

I really admire Nine's work. Their worldbuilding and character interactions have consistently been great, and this latest chapter turned out to be quite special.

I've written a lot here about LI agency and how much it means to me. It's so rare for a developer to have an LI have their own agenda and not follow the player's whims. Well, it seems Nine have decided to take that idea to its logical extreme. As things stand, all LIs (and many non-LIs) are acting at least a little bit suspiciously, and MC has been told that one or more of them might actively be conspiring against the MC.

All you get to do to is search for clues and decide who you trust or suspect. It's honestly a breath of fresh air for a whodunnit

I agree with you Jufot Nelson.

 

[camube]

I read your post and I think before anything else, the fundamental difference between you and I is that when I play these games, I see myself more as a viewer than a self-inserter.

And the whole of your post, I think you view me as a self-inserter.

I’m not. In these kind of games, I see myself more of a viewer or reader than a self-inserter.

I think I need to write that on top because that’s the sense I get from reading your reply as a whole.

the premise of the situation is: is it okay for a psychologist to date an ex-patient? (assume a short time period since counseling ended, like a couple of weeks).

I don’t play your game (or these games) like that.

Your premise is taking into account Actual Real Life Situations.
Most AVN games would ended really early if I play like that.
Let me write it out.

The way I play these games, I take into account MC's thought process themselves (usually based on MC's internal monologues) on top of what story variation “I would like to see unfold”

Opposite to that, Actual Real Life Situations would be what “I myself” would have done Disregarding any MC’s monologue.
Most AVN games would ends extremely quickly if I disregard MC’s monologue and consider the situations in-game Actual Real Life Situations and “me being me”.

To stretch this point further, if I see myself as the MC of these games, none of the Pale Carnations events would happen with the MC because I would reject the offer (that started the whole game) at the beginning.
I used Pale Carnations as an example because I considered that game to be on the highest tier.

Directly answering the question, in real life no it’s not okay for a psychologist to date an ex-patient before years has passed and this would be even worse considering Jen’s age.
To add to that, in Actual Real Life Situation I don’t think it’s even okay to influence Lea to be an exhibitionist just because the MC realizes her kink before she does.

In real life i wouldn’t even make the decisions MC made early on in Lea path. MC wouldn't be in Lea's path.
In this game though, MC I control is on Lea’s path.

2) it’s not that you think it’d be bad for the patient, (in fact it could very well be a happy relationship, you have nothing against it). You’re just worried for the psychologist career. In his shoes you’d never risk everything for a woman.

This part of your reply is when i realized our basic differences and why I wrote what I wrote in the beginning.

The way I play these games, I see myself more of a viewer than “myself as the MC”. Because I’m more a watcher and not the MC I didn’t worry about his career.

MC is his own person that has his own backstory. You the author writes the MC.
As a player, while I do have some control to affect MC’s next events, ultimately, the players choices are Limited Paths that are written by the author still.

So while MC might worry about his career, I don’t.
I just watch it from the sideline.

As a watcher with limited choice, I don’t want to see some choices unfold so I don’t pick those. Cece path on Leap of Faith, Restaurant option on Being a DIK, or Jen Path here.

The thing is, the way you talk about the choice of not crossing a line, it makes it seem like it’s the noble action to take (that’s also how it is depicted in the game).

Within the Limited Paths, It’s not good for Jen (the character) so I didn’t choose it.

It has more to do with me weighing that between a) Jen Path and b) not Jen Path (given the status quo of therapist-patient), I would rather see the story unfold in the b) not Jen Path

I don’t see it as a noble action.

I can’t imagine any story developments that would make you reconsider your choice, because the issue will always be there. You can’t change the problems in the relationship dynamics.

Temporary transition period is fine for me

But… isn’t this actually a coward position? You’re sacrificing the happiness of someone that you think would be happier in the relationship you rejected, just to not compromise your own safety.

Since I’ve established now you read my reply the wrong way because of our viewpoint differences, so this part of your reply is moot.

3) there’s some other niche alternatives like, it being a red line not because of the patient or the psychologist, but because the problems that it could cause to anyone else involved in the clinic.

Game Scope.

When I made that decision I didn’t think about MC’s friends.
I don’t think those things because of game scope. I don’t know the scope of your game at the time, so I don’t concern myself with what happened with MC’s friends while making the choice.

It's more of a let the story unfold later when it unfolds.

Some game scope is pretty small. Some other games drop plot threads. So I don’t concern myself with “what would happen in the future with MC’s friends” while I’m playing it.

Or just because you’re someone that believes the law should be followed 100% of the time. If that’s the case, the law says that no psychologist should date a ex-patient for a period of 2 years, so, nothing story-wise that happens in that time-frame should make you regret your initial decision. The only thing you can do is wait 2 years. After that is okay.

Yes this is one of those Games are not Actual Real Life Situations viewpoint I wrote early on.

from my point-of-view at least, no amount of foresight should change your believe that this relationship is bad for the patient.

From a watcher’s viewpoint and story unfolding viewpoint, I want to see Jen’s path unfolding had I known him being

Spoiler

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Had I known, I would have chose Jen path because I want to see the story unfold.

Spoiler: my general reply

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The end of that spoiler part gets me to the main takeaway of my reply from me to you

Hi.
Back to camube.
....short end of the stick

1) No you do not gave me (or players like me) the short end of the stick.

However I do want to say that even if you gave some players the short end of the stick, it shouldn't affect your writing process that much in the future either.

*I mean, for accuracy purposes, with the concept of patreon and ongoing game development, sure yeah high-tier patreon members can influenced the author's story development in some regard. But really, the devs telling the story they want to tell is what i want to experience.

So the takeaway is, not only do I not mind, I think you shouldn't mind it either.
If some players gets the short end of the stick, it's fine.

It is what it is.
To feel something from a story is an experience in itself.

This is a stream of consciousness post so I'm sorry in advance for the length and repetition.
*Any repetition is not repeated to emphasize any points. I'm repeating because it's a stream of consciousness reply while going through your post and writing the reply at the same time.

 

[EndlessNights]

Note to self: don't ever call camube a self-inserter. It's one of my favorite terms of endearment so this will be a bit of a challenge!

 

[camube]

Note to self: don't ever call camube a self-inserter. It's one of my favorite terms of endearment so this will be a bit of a challenge!

lmao. no no, that reply is very contextual.
Context being I'm a patron of their game, that's why I spent time reading and replying.

I enjoy the time I spent replying it because I'm replying to them is the context there.
Me (or our) replies to them could give them insights.
And that insights could contribute to future developments.
I relish the time I spent reading it properly and giving it a reply.

On the other side of that coin, I probably either wouldn't reply or just make a short reply if that specific context was not there because reading properly takes time for me, and afterward, typing also takes time.

 

[Raife]

Price of Power also has

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out. I'm very happy with the direction the game seems to be heading in. This chapter includes yet another powerpoint presentation from Legacy, this time to the entire gang. These are quickly becoming one of my favourite parts of the game.

There is just something inherently hilarious about a combat AI trying to talk about the periodic table, radar, and satellites to a bunch of medieval peasants

I finally had a chance to play the Price of Power update -- and, agreed, on all counts.

The game actually makes me think. Could I explain, in basic terms, how an A380 works to a medieval person of above average intelligence, by way of analogies with concepts they are already familiar with?

And I also agree that the whole powerpoint thing is genuinely funny, probably intentionally so. The best part of it is that Legacy treats powerpoint as a clumsy tool that is useful only for conveying extremely simple information to slow, ignorant people. So true!

Also: this game may be offering the most realistic depiction of how a throuple, involving people who are otherwise strongly monogamous, might come about... in a way that is organic and credible. We're not there, yet, but I think the dev has an above even chance of getting this right.

 

[jufot]

Could I explain, in basic terms, how an A380 works to a medieval person of above average intelligence, by way of analogies with concepts they are already familiar with?

Hmm, something with birds, kites, and windmills perhaps? It wouldn't be perfect, but you should be able to avoid getting burned at the stake

And I also agree that the whole powerpoint thing is genuinely funny, probably intentionally so.

My favourite bit was Legacy chiding the gang for metagaming his H2O question

Also: this game may be offering the most realistic depiction of how a throuple, involving people who are otherwise strongly monogamous, might come about.

Agreed. It feels true to life so far, and I'm excited to see how we'll get there.