Don't feel too reassured, Casual -- there's a high correlation between the folks who liked jufot's _Hillside_ response and the denizens of the _story first_ thread. We are, as discussed, an oddball subculture on this site. In fact, we probably number less than the hardcore vore followers or other niche fetish types. (Apologies, I always seem to tease the vore people, mostly because they take it in good spirit...)
I admit that I went to the thread and liked it, so there's that...
...as for the NTR mislabeling and whackadoodle attitudes towards women (especially LIs) who evidence sexual autonomy... it's not a good thing, because -- as you say -- it tends to kill creativity among devs. As soon as the anti-NTR police start agitating for a game to receive that label (usually inappropriately), it tends to overwhelm discussion and drive away potential supporters. We've gotten to the point where devs have to swear off all potential NTR as soon as a game is posted... and by NTR, they usually mean even _platonic_ relationships between male NPCs and potential LIs. That absolutely _kills_ the potential for a realistic plot... let alone the potential for well-written eroticism.
Being a Stepford Wife (or a Stepford LI) is not a good thing.
Finally, I'd like to raise the thorniest topic of all: why aren't there more female writers/devs involved in adult games? Some possible reasons are blindingly obvious (given the above) -- but there are a ton of female writers of erotica. Perhaps Tlaero's experience is instructive: she's quite prolific, and while she's not my favourite writer, she has produced some very good work. But she seems to get zero support at home (or is afraid to ask for it) and gets endless abuse on public sites for insisting that women MCs/NPCs get the same amount of autonomy and agency as their male counterparts. Presumably she loves what she does... but it must be a terrible burden.
I have noticed that it seems (and one lesbian user agrees) that the women developers and modders get harsher treatment from the rabble. At least one woman developer has decided to walk away from F95 participation.
I intentionally left out the part about jealousy to make it more graphic, but of course you're right.
That reminds me of the vague definition of the NTR tag here in F95L
- NTR [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
The player will often interpret it to mean if
they experience jealousy, which reduces it to "anything I say it is."
The ones I came across were all so badly written and completely lacked any subtlety.
It's either a (usually coloured) man entering the MCs house and banging all women or the MC asking someone "Sir, could you please bang my GF / wife?". Ugh.
Oh yes. the "Mandingo" fetish, portraying black men as more savage and lusty. Blech.
.
.
.
I wished there were, because (imo) female devs tend to bring something to the table that's lacking in many adult games / VNs: An emphasis on story, eroticism and well written female characters.
I'm not saying there aren't male devs out there who can do that as well, but as a general rule of thumb...
In fact a lot of my favourite adult content creators are female:
Eva Kiss,
Nottravis,
DumbKoala, Oracle and Bone.
[/QUOTE]
When I decided to make AVNs, one of my thoughts actually was, "Do we need another male voice?"
I wanted to add to the discussion that it's not only the paranoid Anti-NTR crowd which thwarts or ruins realistic adult games / VNs - the "porn" crowd is equally guilty.
Definitely!
How many times did I read posts or reviews along the lines of:
"This VN sucks. It doesn't have any lewd content at all."
"I played this game for 20 minutes and there wasn't even a sex scene. I skipped (!) the dialogue for another 5 minutes - still nothing."
Often followed by:
"This is a porn site, this game / VN shouldn't even be here."
Requiring yet another explanation of the difference between adult and porn.
This puts a lot of pressure on developers, especially those who want to tell a realistic story.
It simply doesn't make sense to have a lewd scene early on in a well written story (unless the MC is already in a relationship).
I have to admit that I have been mindful of this while writing my stories.
- The contemporary, polyamorous story initially centers on two couples, one newbie, one veteran. The newbie couple have an intimate scene in the first chapter (3rd or 4th scene), the veteran couple have existing partners as well. As far as new partners for the newbies, that will logically take a few chapters of meeting, chatting, and dating. I really need to see how other developers approach the "Dating Sim" mechanic.
- The Steampunk story is framed a little like an Indiana Jones story, so ideally there will be one or two potential LI encounters per adventure/chapter. Whether those LIs return to be involved in a later adventure (or outside of the adventure) would be unknown to the player. It's a little unrealistic, but we're talking pulp fiction (the genre, not the move) here.
I recently came across a VN with a story I really like, but the explicit scenes came mostly out of thin air - as if the dev only implemented them to meet some kind of lewd quota in adult games, in other words: crowd-pleasers.
I know it goes contrary to the recommendations in this thread, but would you be willing to share the name of the gratuitous VN?
One of my closest friends loves talking about her past "youthful slutty phase" (her words). She isn't the least bit bothered referring to herself like that, so I figure, who am I to judge
But yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Not only is it self-embracing, but she talks about her behavior, not her being. Acting slutty vs. being a slut. (I almost typed "Stepford Slut" above, but went with the less judgmental "Stepford LI" even though that is what those players are probably looking for)
