Recommending Story-first games

[Tlaero]

Unless you're a big studio, of course. If you're bringing in millions in revenue, they don't care about content unless it's literally illegal to publish. Such a shame...

Don't get me wrong, Patreon enables us to make games, and I appreciate them for it. And Steam made their platform and is allowed to run it however they want. The reason I'm calling this out is to make sure you folks understand that some story decisions are made by outside forces and are not necessarily the game dev's first choice.

As I think about it, I guess there are strong parallels between devs who change their story so that they can stay on Patreon and devs who change their story so that people who want this or that kink will play their games. Making games in general is a challenge. Making erotic games adds complexities to that challenge.

Tlaero

 

[TheimmortalP]

SS was discussed here a few months ago, starting here.


Will check it out, thanks!

Ah really? I guess he doesn't feel like a blank slate to me because I've never played a game where an MC is a blank slate, but they have so much substance to them.

 

[TheimmortalP]

Unless you're a big studio, of course. If you're bringing in millions in revenue, they don't care about content unless it's literally illegal to publish. Such a shame...

Interesting, what individual porn game is bringing in millions in revenue?

 

[jufot]

Interesting, what individual porn game is bringing in millions in revenue?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough I meant to say that there are plenty of big publisher games on Steam with sex scenes and minors. Valve does not care as long as said minors are not involved in those scenes.

If you are a small-time adult game developer, though, any minors at all - even in non-sexual contexts - will likely get your game rejected.

 

[Wolf Larsen]

If you're on Patreon, you simply can not do that. When I was writing Coming to Grips with Christine, I explicitly asked if two adult sisters could have a consensual sexual relationship with an unrelated man, and their response was an unequivocal "No."

I mean, I know a few games on Patreon with stuff like that, but no sexual contact between the sisters...

Not telling you the names of those games though... gotta be discreet... keeping your mouth shut... they can be watching...

 

[vneotpolemus]

I mean, I know a few games on Patreon with stuff like that, but no sexual contact between the sisters...

Not telling you the names of those games though... gotta be discreet... keeping your mouth shut... they can be watching...

I suspect patreon's knee jerk response to any TOS query is "they're trying to find a loophole, so tell them no."

 

[jufot]

Some thoughts on a few recent game updates.

Price of Power: Chapter 9 was great! Maria really took charge in tackling the powers that be. She's a force of nature Michael is increasingly reliant on Legacy to do... pretty much anything, really. He literally needs him to stay alive. There might be some interesting dynamics there in the future. Looks like AI number #2 will be arriving in the next episode, which should be very exciting. The bioengineered infertility bacteria is a lovely twist that I didn't see coming. The nature of the disease and Legacy's suggested treatment plan has laid some believable groundwork for a future Michael-Maria-Emilia throuple. Exciting stuff!

Isabella - Dark Paths: It seems like we're finally done with the background information and things are heating up. The mystery of MC's dead girlfriend, Isabella's agent, and that William guy all seem connected and shit is about to hit the proverbial fan. I'm looking forward to the next chapter!

The Unbroken: Chapter 3 was released recently. It was... nice. I find myself in a very amusing situation, where the only storyline I'm truly invested in is not about any LIs, but about MC's dead friend Davis, who was by all accounts a piece of shit. It seems like their fall-out was triggered by Davis doing some seriously fucked up shit when they were both deployed in the Middle East, which would be par for the course for Western forces, of course.

The LIs are generally OK, and are not one-dimensional like in most adult VNs. Each chapter seems to explore the lives of a few in detail, which makes for a richer story. Unfortunately, except for Kana and Elspeth, most are very trope-y. There are several barely 18-year-old shy virgin LIs, all inexplicably lusting after an early thirties MC publicly known to be a womanizer. MCs best friend and flatmate Alistair jokingly complains about it too! "How the hell did our sweet bachelor pad turn into a sorority?" he asks, after said LIs all start to live in their flat.

Choices are mostly meaningless as well. For example, MC can skip all fight training sessions with Alistair, choosing to hang out with LIs instead, and still trivially win his fight. There are no meaningful, mutually exclusive choices. I imagine Unbroken will be like the dev's first game, where you can date everyone simultaneously, without fear of consequences, and at the very end you get to pick one, and everyone else silently moves on. It cheapens the story, but seems to be very popular.

Halfway House: I'm still not sure if this game belongs on this thread or not. Everything is extremely tropey, but there is also so much heart in it. The dev has finally released a new chapter after a year of development, and it was great! Officer Monroe's backstory was a big highlight. I'm also mad at the dev for introducing by far the most attractive woman - Maddie - as a minor side character. It's not fair

Oathbreaker: I know Raife makes fun of me for liking this one, but I don't care After 2 years of development, the story is almost done as there is only one chapter left. It's hard to say anything about it without spoiling things, so I'll just say that Oathbreaker is one of the best fantasy adventure stories I've read in a long time and is definitely worth checking out.

Nothing is Forever: The third chapter was pretty great. My personal highlights were Jen's chess games, her platonic/professional scene at the hotel, and Deb's continuing femdom path. Unfortunately, I kind of had to abandon Lea's path because it stopped being about exhibitionism. I've elaborated on that here, here and here. I still have Deb (and potentially Emma) as paths I'm interested in, so I'll continue supporting the dev

 

[Raife]

Some thoughts on a few recent game updates.

In the words of Jack from _Sideways_, "this is gonna be fun!!"

Price of Power: Agreed -- excellent episode. Great character development, with all sort of fascinating new plot threads to follow. Plus, there was a duel. I have just two qualms: (1) I'm a bit concerned that the dev risks 'antagonist inflation' by over-powering his protagonists... a common issue in superhero character arcs (although, in this case, the unreliable nature of the AIs could blunt that danger; and (2) "honey, I have to heal Amelia with my cock, but I promise not to enjoy it" risks shark-jumping hilarity.
Isabella -- Dark Paths: 100% agreed. Badtimes is on the right track!

The Unbroken: Remains a considerable improvement over the dev's first game, and I'm enjoying it. But... he has created far too many LIs. The two games above avoid this mistake... and are, partly for that reason, both much better than _The Unbroken_.

Halfway House: Definitely belongs on your list, jufot. Yes, the LIs are tropey... but, as I've said before, they each have small quirks that make them more than cardboard cutouts. The MC is a genuinely interesting character... flawed, but not horrible.

But the bottom line is that you can't keep a game off the list where the dev chooses to devote most of an episode to the backstory of a gruff, obese cop character... who has a heart of gold. Choosing to develop that sweet non-LI character has enraged most of F95... which is the test that proves the rule for a story-first game! (Let's call it RAIFE's FIRST LAW: it is axiomatic that all great story-first games must attract fanatical hatred on this hellsite. See all of Tlaero's games, _Hillside_, weird complaining on the _Price of Power_ thread, etc.))

Oathbreaker: Offers irrefutable evidence that jufot... is a nerd!! (I predict that you have a 20-sided die lying around your house somewhere, perhaps under the couch. I might have had one, too... until my wife took it away. )

Nothing is Forever: The update was sort of a mixed bag, for me... I chose to resist Jen, which was wrenching. I hope that we're rewarded down the road for making such a difficult choice. I'm slightly concerned that the game mechanics risk getting away from the dev, because he has made it too easy to gain points/perks, which could allow the MC to pursue too many LIs simultaneously. I hope he tightens things up a bit... but I still love the game. Emma or Jen are probably my favourites.

 

[jufot]

"honey, I have to heal Amelia with my cock, but I promise not to enjoy it" risks shark-jumping hilarity.

Haha, we definitely think alike

Halfway House: Definitely belongs on your list, jufot. [...] But the bottom line is that you can't keep a game off the list where the dev chooses to devote most of the latest episode to the backstory of a gruff, obese cop character... who has a heart of gold. Choosing to develop that sweet non-LI character has enraged most of F95... which is the test that proves the rule for a story-first game!

OK, all very fair points. It's up there now.

I predict that you have a 20-sided die lying around your house somewhere, perhaps under the couch.

Actually, would you believe me if I said I've never, ever played a single game of DnD? Because I haven't! I have been in close proximity to those who did, so there is definitely some passive exposure, but alas, there are no 20-sided dies in my house

I chose to resist Jen, which was wrenching. I hope that we're rewarded down the road for making such a difficult choice.

I'm more interested in seeing those who didn't resist Jen get punished. It's not only a massive ethical and legal violation, it's not even MC's first! At an absolute minimum, he should quit his job pretty much immediately in the next chapter and never work in that profession again. If he chooses not to (or the dev doesn't offer such a choice) I hope MC gets found out, fired, and maybe even arrested. Anything less would reek of cheap porn, and this game deserves better than that.

 

[Raife]

I'm more interested in seeing those who didn't resist Jen get punished.

I agree entirely: a good game would reward players who resist temptation and play their MC's ''true path' given what we know of his backstory and history. A great game would also savagely punish players for role-playing against a character's essential nature and background: it would give players the rope they need to hang themselves, and then let them swing.

 

[TheimmortalP]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough I meant to say that there are plenty of big publisher games on Steam with sex scenes and minors. Valve does not care as long as said minors are not involved in those scenes.

If you are a small-time adult game developer, though, any minors at all - even in non-sexual contexts - will likely get your game rejected.

Ah, gotcha. I gotta wonder though(to be clear, I'm asking.) the big publisher games on steam with sex scenes, are the minors sexualized?

 

[vneotpolemus]

I agree entirely: a good game would reward players who resist temptation and play their MC's ''true path' given what we know of his backstory and history. A great game would also savagely punish players for role-playing against a character's essential nature and background: it would give players the rope they need to hang themselves, and then let them swing.

I tried Nothing is Forever for the first time and really enjoyed it. Impressive to see someone trying to innovate. The skill system is an interesting change of pace, even though I'm not sold on it yet. And while Emma, Lea, and Jen are the characters I'm most interested in, the dev has done a good job making the whole cast relevant even if you're not pursuing them.

The Jen situation is interesting; the warning to not cross professional boundaries (again) is up there in flashing neon lights, but I'm not sure if that's a "don't try this at home" warning or a "don't try this in game" warning. Agree that the former would be a cop out. On the other hand, going through with realistic consequences would totally bifurcate the game. It would mean two completely different storylines depending on the players choices.

Interesting to see where it goes.

 

[jufot]

Ah, gotcha. I gotta wonder though(to be clear, I'm asking.) the big publisher games on steam with sex scenes, are the minors sexualized?

Not outright sexualized, no, but my point was that with big publishers Valve is willing to entertain nuance and gray areas, whereas for indie AVN developers they don't allow room for any of that.

 

[jufot]

All right, I have another game that's going straight into my list: The Bite: Revenant

I first played this one a while ago, and I just caught up with it after today's update. It can be summarized as modern urban vampire fantasy, which... doesn't inspire much confidence, I know. They are a dime a dozen.

But I think The Bite easily stands out among the rest. The best comparison I can think of is

You must be registered to see the links

, from almost 20 years ago. There is a reason that game is considered a cult classic. Its narrative, characters, and atmosphere are legendary and The Bite is clearly inspired by it. The story is well-written, and I want to avoid spoiling it, so I won't say anything further on that front. If you liked VtMB, you'll like this story too.

The game's approach to sex - and sexuality - is quite mature and realistic. Sex scenes are rare, well written, and make sense within the narrative. Relatedly, The Bite treats its women well, something quite uncommon for the genre. They are not props and dolls for the men, but a crucial part of the story. They talk, act, and even dress sensibly. For example, the "main" LI dresses like this pretty much all the time, not showing any skin at all:



And that's great! There is no story reason for her to be sexualized in that context, so she simply... isn't. It's not limited to her, either. MC is at the bottom of the food chain in this world, and his meetings with a powerful woman very high up the chain are similarly desexualized:



If you are a fan of VtMB like me, or if any of the above sounds the least bit interesting, you should definitely give this one a shot

 

[noping123]

I need to take this thread off notifications. It keeps popping up so i read and I think "Oh that game sounds like it could be interesting maybe I should check it out" followed by "shit I don't have time for that"

 

[Raife]

MC is at the bottom of the food chain in this world, and his meetings with a powerful woman very high up the chain are similarly desexualized:

View attachment 1661378 View attachment 1661379

If you are a fan of VtMB like me, or if any of the above sounds the least bit interesting, you should definitely give this one a shot

I agree entirely -- it's a fun and appealing game, thus far, that eschews all dumb porn tropes in favour of world building.

But, jufot... I don't think the dev gets too much credit for not sexualizing powerful vampires. I mean, when the woman in question is eight feet tall and can squash the MC like a bug with a flick of her wrist... sex, presumably, would not be at the forefront of the MC's mind.

 

[jufot]

I mean, when the woman in question is eight feet tall and can squash the MC like a bug with a flick of her wrist... sex, presumably, would not be at the forefront of the MC's mind.

True, she's like two regular-sized women in a trench coat

 

[vneotpolemus]

The game's approach to sex - and sexuality - is quite mature and realistic. Sex scenes are rare, well written, and make sense within the narrative. Relatedly, The Bite treats its women well, something quite uncommon for the genre. They are not props and dolls for the men, but a crucial part of the story. They talk, act, and even dress sensibly. For example, the "main" LI dresses like this pretty much all the time, not showing any skin at all:

View attachment 1661331

I for one welcome our new black leather clad LIs

 

[Raife]

I for one welcome our new black leather clad LIs

My issue with the main LI in TB:R is that she has such an exceptionally appealing mixture of qualities -- strength and vulnerability, toughness and kindness -- that I'm going to miss 80% of the sex content in the game. My MC _must_ be loyal to her.

 

[TheimmortalP]

All right, I have another game that's going straight into my list: The Bite: Revenant

I first played this one a while ago, and I just caught up with it after today's update. It can be summarized as modern urban vampire fantasy, which... doesn't inspire much confidence, I know. They are a dime a dozen.

But I think The Bite easily stands out among the rest. The best comparison I can think of is

You must be registered to see the links

, from almost 20 years ago. There is a reason that game is considered a cult classic. Its narrative, characters, and atmosphere are legendary and The Bite is clearly inspired by it. The story is well-written, and I want to avoid spoiling it, so I won't say anything further on that front. If you liked VtMB, you'll like this story too.

The game's approach to sex - and sexuality - is quite mature and realistic. Sex scenes are rare, well written, and make sense within the narrative. Relatedly, The Bite treats its women well, something quite uncommon for the genre. They are not props and dolls for the men, but a crucial part of the story. They talk, act, and even dress sensibly. For example, the "main" LI dresses like this pretty much all the time, not showing any skin at all:

View attachment 1661331

And that's great! There is no story reason for her to be sexualized in that context, so she simply... isn't. It's not limited to her, either. MC is at the bottom of the food chain in this world, and his meetings with a powerful woman very high up the chain are similarly desexualized:

View attachment 1661378 View attachment 1661379

If you are a fan of VtMB like me, or if any of the above sounds the least bit interesting, you should definitely give this one a shot

I can't remember, have you played Rebirth: EPisode 1? It's my favorite completed supernatural visual novel.