Others Strive: Conquest [v0.9.0] [Maverik]

[erkper]

The problem is a game like Racettear or Bifrost uses the Debt to drive the Gameplay.
But Conquest as it currently is has no such mechanics that make it interesting gameplay.
There are no "Customers" that required tailored slaves to satisfy them.
And there are no Quest that pay off from selling high quality trained and rare slaves.
You also don't have much time to properly train them to a high degree.

The Upgrade System could be useful, but it's not yet balanced with the Pacing and Economy.

To pay off the debt you just need to Grind but that is not much Challange or Gameplay. The Game is already "Solved".

You all seem to misunderstand the purpose of the debt in this game. The debt in Conquest exists not to be paid, but to drive you to find a way to end it WITHOUT having to pay it off completely, which effectively advances the plot to the start of Act 1 - the Civil War. So in that slightly different sense, it is used exactly to drive the gameplay. In Conquest, paying the debt isn't the gameplay, the debt is motivation to advance the gameplay. Stopping the debt payments by completing quests for the guilds to increase your reputation is the intended path, as is explicitly stated by the game. Choosing to ignore that and just pay the debt by grinding is theoretically doable but both requires ignoring what the game tells you, and completely stalls the plot.

As Evangelion-01 said, the weekly quests you can take from the guilds can include requests for both tailored and trained slaves (to some extent, likely not as extensive as the games you mentioned.) And if you aren't 100% focusing on paying the debt instead of stopping the need to pay it, you actually do have plenty of time to train your slaves.

And now that I've taken my shot at explaining something I said a few posts earlier shouldn't really need to be explained, I'm done with this topic.

 

[DuniX]

There are Quests from the Servant guild that require highly trained slaves with certain gender and classes unlocked.
Even the Warrior Guild has Quests where you need to lend or sell specialized slaves

They are not worth the time and money.
They are worth only for their Guild Points.
It's not really balanced with the intention of paying off the debt.
In which case there is no reason to not do only the easy stuff and skip the rest as there is nothing requiring you to be efficient.

So in that slightly different sense, it is used exactly to drive the gameplay.

Story is not gameplay.
If you remove the Debt you remove the Gameplay since there is no need to bother with being Efficient with Management.
You would only have the Combat and Progression as Gameplay but even that is pretty weak.

 

[Evangelion-01]

They are not worth the time and money.
They are worth only for their Guild Points.
It's not really balanced with the intention of paying off the debt.
In which case there is no reason to not do only the easy stuff and skip the rest as there is nothing requiring you to be efficient.

Completing a guild Quest brings in much more money than selling trained slaves to the slave trader.
Again why are you so incestant that the purpose of the game is to actually pay of the debt?
The possibility to do so is a sign that the game needs more balancing.
We haven't seen the end of the Quest system yet... personally I would love to see Hard Quests to yield rare to Epic minerals (like Elemental Crystals) or Equipment and Items.

Story is not gameplay.
If you remove the Debt you remove the Gameplay since there is no need to bother with being Efficient with Management.
You would only have the Combat and Progression as Gameplay but even that is pretty weak.

...sorry but I call bullshit on this one.
The Debt is only part of the story not gameplay.
Gameplay is building your household, manage your slaves and crafting valuable Items.
Training Slaves to make them even better.
Following the story breaks with the trot of grinding in Dungeons and colllecting resources and grants unique rewards, includeing sex scenes and unique characters

 

[Dravak]

The problem is a game like Racettear or Bifrost uses the Debt to drive the Gameplay.
But Conquest as it currently is has no such mechanics that make it interesting gameplay.
There are no "Customers" that required tailored slaves to satisfy them.
And there are no Quest that pay off from selling high quality trained and rare slaves.
You also don't have much time to properly train them to a high degree.

The Upgrade System could be useful, but it's not yet balanced with the Pacing and Economy.

To pay off the debt you just need to Grind but that is not much Challange or Gameplay. The Game is already "Solved".

The game is currently not balanced yet, infact there has been a whole overhaul mechanic regarding traits , Fishing Hunting almost everything.
Including combat spells..

You complain about the game mechanic is rightfully so , cause it is still in Alpha.
Now before you say the game sucks, or have such a negative view, the game is based on Strive for Power. which was very well recieved, sadly cause Maverick uses Patreon things like Incest and other things have to be hidden or atleast late game.
There is a lot of content cut from Strive For Power that made it way back into mods.

But what I am more interested in is new stuff, Random quest Generator is nice for early game.. to get some Credits some stuff going, yeah if you debug test , then those random quest isn't interesting. if you have unlimited funds. then a lot of mechanic like dungeon exploring for new Slaves or Rare slaves isn't interesting.

But games have less mechanic then what Strive for Conquest have now, and are well recieved .. games like Slave Makers or Brothel Management.
The whole issue is that sometimes balance goes a way people don't like, I understand that completely

I would like interaction for example (dating for people who don't know) to be added a Brothel or BDSM mansion.
that is a worthy upgrade and worthy grind .. since all the tools done are already there. with public humiliation , public execution etc.
But that is a lot of content creation that caters to a cruel minor sadistic group of people, that not everybody like. so yeah that is best left to a mod.
Same as the stable has been cut from Strive for Conquest for now.

Now combat wise, dungeon exploration is easily fixed by giving Unique only items.. or traits if people find the rewards unsatisfying. (those are easy fix and easy to implement) enough people love grinding pointless stuff for unique rewards.
Whole internet is full of these games of RNG grinding or gambling loot.

But mechanic wise... yeah you do need to give Maverick ideas or the modders ideas what you want implemented.
Especially in Sandbox mode the game is lacking content, that reflects back a bit once you are done with the story mode.

But what could or should be implemented is a brothel , why it has been cut out instead of expanded, I don't know ?
Infact yeah it is a lot of writing dialogues stuff, but it is something that definetly fits this game.
Even prostitution can be extended by having random events happen .. like your Slaves or Servants get kidnapped.
Then you need to assign a guard. that is extending mechanic into longlivety, that makes sense.
Just needs again some written dialogues.. like your Guard gets success get X coins extra. or your guard was totally beaten up lose Slave and Guard for example.. but again this example alone a lot of people would cringe at. cause on the long term it gets tedious.

 

[Dravak]

Also lets consider the potential , the personality traits aren't used at all, you only have a FEW shy bold kind (forgot one)
But those can easily be extended if somebody wants to write dialogue events for them, to give Random Characters more personality. you can easily move some sex traits into personality .
But again it takes somebody to write a lot of dialogues for them, and lot of options to make them seem a bit real. instead of normal boring Ohhh Ahhh.. NOOOOooo , don't touch me , oh yes use me ! bla bla.

 

[erkper]

They are not worth the time and money.
They are worth only for their Guild Points.
It's not really balanced with the intention of paying off the debt.
In which case there is no reason to not do only the easy stuff and skip the rest as there is nothing requiring you to be efficient.

If this is your opinion, I'm not sure I believe you've ever actually completed the Prologue and played through Act I and Act II. And if that is the case, I wouldn't consider you qualified to make a judgement of what is or is not worth doing. Again, the purpose of the debt IS NOT to pay it off. The purpose of the debt IS NOT to give you a reason to grind, grind, grind without ever accomplishing anything.

Again Evangelion-01 is correct, some of the medium-level quests generate monetary rewards MUCH greater than the value of the goods used therein, and it is likely the hard-level quests will be even more rewarded in the future. The very first thing I do in every playthrough I start is to upgrade the quests from easy to medium because the rewards are so much more worth it, even without considering the guild reputation points earned.

Story is not gameplay.
If you remove the Debt you remove the Gameplay since there is no need to bother with being Efficient with Management.
You would only have the Combat and Progression as Gameplay but even that is pretty weak.

You're going to have to explain how you define gameplay then. Because to me, going through the story is exactly the reason for playing a game. And the methods you use to do so - to advance the storyline - is the gameplay. In some sense you're right, at current development other than the debt's increasing payments there is very little reason to be "Efficient with Management" as you put it, to accomplish certain goals more quickly or whatnot. Once the debt is paid off AFAIK you can ignore the main plot and grind pointlessly to your heart's content. Sounds rather boring to me, and I suspect at some point Maverik will add another method to keep the player on track with the storyline. I'll concede that at this point in development, especially after you negate the debt, it IS possible to ignore the plot, avoid doing what the game is telling you, and grind for no purpose. But it really seems like you have to want to do so for that to be the case. And if that is the case, why are you complaining about doing something you're choosing to do, when it is explicitly not how the game is directing you to play?

 

[Fuscen]

But what could or should be implemented is a brothel , why it has been cut out instead of expanded, I don't know ?

tbh I think the dev's smart for not focusing on prostitution/brothels in Power or Conquest. there are quite a few dedicated brothel sims that can and will blow the theoretical effort out of the water, I'd rather Conquest, like Power, become known for its own things rather than being as a second-rate brothel sim.

 

[Dravak]

tbh I think the dev's smart for not focusing on prostitution/brothels in Power or Conquest. there are quite a few dedicated brothel sims that can and will blow the theoretical effort out of the water, I'd rather Conquest, like Power, become known for its own things rather than being as a second-rate brothel sim.

I am not asking for a brothel sim, while this game can fit it in, it is more then that.
The Brothel in Strive for conquest can be a more voyeur/moneysink since most of the sexual interactions while observe are already done. it is just making it seem more lively, cause people wanted crafting when there are better crafting games out there, or people ask for Random Dungeons when there are much better dungeon crawlers out there.
Doesn't mean Brothel should just be cut out of the game.. it is what irritates me a bit, when in a city like Allerion there isn't even a brothel like in Strive for power.. (the brothel in strive for power was minimalistic too)
Atleast you could go visit it even if you couldn't really interact with it.

Yeah I would love to have a Conquest all other villages or kingdom in Strive for Conquest... but I am realistic that is a too grand of scope to create a Crusader Kings 2 mini map game. but we shall see.
So I am keeping request realistic what is possible, within the gernre without breaking Patreon and stepping on tons of people toes or what they deem not acceptable.
I mean I already love the way the game is going with the story line and options.

 

[DuniX]

Gameplay is building your household, manage your slaves and crafting valuable Items.
Training Slaves to make them even better.
Following the story breaks with the trot of grinding in Dungeons and colllecting resources and grants unique rewards, includeing sex scenes and unique characters

Training is Easy, Crafting is Easy and Boring with resources around everywhere. They should have maintained the previous travel system as that was a bit of a challenge.
And once you build a decent party you basically "Win" at Combat Encounters also.
It's completely Weak in terms of Character Building and Combat compared to a game like Portals of Phereon.
Even Strive 4 Power was kind of weak but as a first project I was more lenient, but I don't see Conquest having much more Potential then Strive.
As for Sex Content, it doesn't even have Custom Image Scenes support.

You complain about the game mechanic is rightfully so , cause it is still in Alpha.

The problem is not that it's Alpha or Under Development. The problem is the Potential which is given by the mechanics and structure is similarly limited as Strive was.
There is not much "Purpose" behind everything as with the Debt.
Why do you need Money? Why do you need to do Dungeons? Why do you upgrade your Mansion? The answer is Whatever.

some of the medium-level quests generate monetary rewards MUCH greater than the value of the goods used therein,

"Some" but they are either Stupidly Easy or not worth the Time and Money.

And the methods you use to do so - to advance the storyline - is the gameplay.

Again Story is not Gameplay, Story is Content and once you exhaust the content, you aren't left with very much.
There are plenty of VNs here you can play for the "story", at best this game will be a dabbler with Combat.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Training is Easy

For single individuals...sure, for a big group that the game supports? much less so.

Crafting is Easy and Boring with resources around everywhere.

...do you think this will stay this way? I am pretty much convinced that many of the locations that are currently available to give Players access to different resources will eventually be blocked off until you advance with the mainstory for a bit, but people are meant to have easy access in order to see everything the game has to offer at this point.
Also the Crafting System being easy? I don't know what you expect, but it already is one of the more complex ones that currently exist.

They should have maintained the previous travel system as that was a bit of a challenge.

The current Travel System combined with the Dungeon crawling seems much more complex than in Strive for Power, instead of a single encounter on every field you need to explore different sized Dungeons on those.
And the Game is not yet done, Maverik might lock certain destinations until you reached a certain travel location... like any Forest map until you reach the Elven capital, etc... but again people are supposed to have easy entrance to every location as to be able to playtest the mechanics the game currently supports.

And once you build a decent party you basically "Win" at Combat Encounters also.

Again it just shows that the game needs more balanceing as Maverik seems to be aware of, the last combat overhaul however wasn't that well received as dificulty jumped quiet alot... he wants to maintain his fanbase afterall.

It's completely Weak in terms of Character Building and Combat compared to a game like Portals of Phereon.

That game adresses a completly different genre and fan base and I admit I haven't played that game in ages, last time I did the GUI was catastrophical and game mechanics were hardly present or impossible to enjoy.

As for Sex Content, it doesn't even have Custom Image Scenes support.

As a Textbased game I don't think you'll find any out there that do... otherwise it wouldn't be a text based game...

Why do you need Money? Why do you need to do Dungeons? Why do you upgrade your Mansion?

To Buy ingredients, Slaves and sometimes simply to enjoy yourself.
To gain Exp and resources, have a chance of aquiring Slaves and treasures.
To unlock new crafting opportunities, improve the effictifness of your business and the size of your Harem.

"Some" but they are either Stupidly Easy or not worth the Time and Money.

I get the feeling you are simply searching for a different game than what Strive: Conquest is meant for.
Unless you have already played for several hours or cheated those Quests can't be called easy... sure they are "easy" in late game but those Quests are meant for early and mid game.

 

[DuniX]

For single individuals...sure, for a big group that the game supports? much less so.

Why would you need an army of slaves? There is no need for anything other then one Combat Squad.

...do you think this will stay this way?

I expect at least an enchantment system. If not by the developer at least by modders.

Also the Crafting System being easy? I don't know what you expect, but it already is one of the more complex ones that currently exist.

It's one of the most boring and useless crafting system I have seen.
You are given all kinds of high tier materials that are easily accessible by gathering or in the shops which makes any lower tier materials obsolete.
But even if that were fixed by the enchantment system somewhat, the Classes, Skills and Races already show the limit of the Combat System and Gear isn't going to change things fundamentally.

I get the feeling you are simply searching for a different game than what Strive: Conquest is meant for.

The problem is Strive:Conquest is also searching for who the game is meant for.
Is it a Trainer Game, a Brothel Game, a RPG Combat Game, a Strategy Game, a Breeder Game?
It is completely weak in all those aspects and it is strong in none.

 

[erkper]

Again Story is not Gameplay, Story is Content and once you exhaust the content, you aren't left with very much.
There are plenty of VNs here you can play for the "story", at best this game will be a dabbler with Combat.

Again you need to define what you actually think Gameplay is. And agreed, once you reach the end of the story content there is not much point to endless grinding. Can't think of any games where I actually do enjoy grinding for no purpose whatsoever, so I fail to see a point. In most games the gameplay is expressly designed to try to AVOID grinding as much as possible and allow your MC/Party/Group to advance as a natural course of playing through the content, WITHOUT having to stop and just grind for extra XP/resources/skill development/whatever. Because most everyone thinks grinding sucks.

 

[sandsea_urchin]

Story is not gameplay. If you remove [the story] you remove the Gameplay.
Is it a Trainer Game, a Brothel Game, a RPG Combat Game, a Breeder Game?

I think I understand what you mean. Let me rephrase a bit.

Let's consider a Sandbox new game. It's basically uninteresting, because there's no challenge:
- there's little to no upkeep, or ways to go bankrupt even if you were to try. So no management challenge.
- setting up a dungeon squad is not that hard; you don't even need workers (or even buildings) since you'll eventually find everything you need in a dungeon, and more
- in case you don't want to set foot in the dungeon, the only thing to do is to build your manor. And there's little point in doing that, and no challenge involved since all ressources are readily available in any market.
- there's no punishment for doing everything wrong; you could stick a bunch of newbies in the brothel, and just skip days: you'll get to the same point as a hard-working optimisation freak.
- there's no reward for doing everything right; what your super dwarven blacksmith can craft, the clueless player can buy it in a store eventually (probably cheaper considering the time and effort spent training)
- economy in particular is awfully balanced, which is a cause for the last points. High-end products yield too little profit for your trouble, and raw materials should be treated differently.


Strive (and conquest) is ultimately story-driven. Once you're done with the story, there's not much to play with.
So it's a bit of "a Trainer Game, a Brothel Game, a RPG Combat Game". The issue being, the challenge is way too low for the game to remain interesting for long, with the story out of the picture.
To say that unkindly: it sucks as a sandbox game. Pytfall, in contrast, had unreasonably high challenges to overcome, and many mechanics which forced you to 'raise your slaves right' (aaand no story ).

Strive's a game you play for the story. If you find the current mechanics lacking (like I do), I recommend waiting for the full game instead of getting a negative opinion now. You might enjoy the game once there's a full story, many side-quests, to veil the weaknesses of the mechanics. I doubt it'll be a viable sandbox game, but at least you'll have many ways to get to the same goal.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Why would you need an army of slaves? There is no need for anything other then one Combat Squad.

I see you are playing the game in a very unusual way.
I always have atleast 25-30 Slaves in order to have them farm for materials. Craft Items and fight in Dungeons

It's one of the most boring and useless crafting system I have seen.
You are given all kinds of high tier materials that are easily accessible by gathering or in the shops which makes any lower tier materials obsolete.
But even if that were fixed by the enchantment system somewhat, the Classes, Skills and Races already show the limit of the Combat System and Gear isn't going to change things fundamentally.

...it seems you presume that the lack of stores and mechanics to allow Players to advance through the Upgrade and crafting process to remain the same... I can't think it will, considering that Strive for Power was the same way... once all World locations had been available the gameplay drastically changed... originally you could fast travel to each location THAN you had to visit each City atleast once before and sometimes even needed to advance the main story to do so before they became available as fast travel locations.
Your arguments center around this game being either completed or in the late phase of development instead of an early alpha.
The last combat overhaul removed many aspects from the classes, as in skills and auto Trait Upgrades.
The game will only grow more complex it won't stay the way it is.

The problem is Strive:Conquest is also searching for who the game is meant for.
Is it a Trainer Game, a Brothel Game, a RPG Combat Game, a Strategy Game, a Breeder Game?
It is completely weak in all those aspects and it is strong in none.

I don't know which scale you use as comparison, but the game is already quiet strong in it's gameplay, the fact that includes several themes break with the grind and give you a small feeling of acomplishment each time you actually manage an Upgrade or create a Powerful Item.

 

[DuniX]

- setting up a dungeon squad is not that hard; you don't even need workers (or even buildings) since you'll eventually find everything you need in a dungeon, and more

Even if you were to look at Combat and Progression it is nothing compared to what you can do in Portals of Phereon or Venus Blood Series.
The Limit of the Combat is dependent on the Stats, Skills and Classes, while it can still do a little bit more it is still limited.
Even if you were to add a few new dungeons with a few new enemies and resources, I don't see much more potential.

considering that Strive for Power was the same way.

Strive had the exact same problem, it had a little bit of content before it peters out at the end.
The reason I was a bit more hopeful with Conquest is precisely because Strive 4 Power was sent to the trash and they started from scratch.
But while Conquest is an "improvement" and I still reserve my judgement until further along in development to see what they do with it, it seems they fall into the same problems.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Even if you were to look at Combat and Progression it is nothing compared to what you can do in Portals of Phereon or Venus Blood Series.

Again you are comparing apples with cabbages... those games aren't as advanced on several aspects as Strive yet they certainly are more advanced on others as they put their focus there.
At this point you are makeing it clear that you search for an entire different genre of games and try to push this game into it's direction.

Strive had the exact same problem, it had a little bit of content before it peters out at the end.
The reason I was a bit more hopeful with Conquest is precisely because Strive 4 Power was sent to the trash and they started from scratch.

Except that they didn't... they used the same basics and build onto them more complex systems.
What you call problems is what others consider it's trademark and selling point.
Based on what you shared with us here I think you won't enjoy the finished game as it will be a much more complex Version of Strive for Power rather than a transformation based game.

 

[DuniX]

Again you are comparing apples with cabbages... those games aren't as advanced on several aspects as Strive yet they certainly are more advanced on others as they put their focus there.

What focus?
I have played a wide variety of games, Racettear, Bifrost, Atelier Series, Slavemaker, Jack, Whoremaker, Brothel King, Rance, Venus Blood, Corruption of Champions, Lilith's Throne, Kenshi, Crusader Kings.
Whatever possible game Conquest could be, I have played it.
Conquest and Strive before it can only be considered mediocre at it's very best.

You might enjoy the game once there's a full story, many side-quests, to veil the weaknesses of the mechanics. I doubt it'll be a viable sandbox game, but at least you'll have many ways to get to the same goal.

The problem with that is even if you add story and quests, with those mechanics it's still kind of boring. Even with getting unique items and stuff, there is not much point if the combat is boring, unique characters and skills? Again not much use.

 

[Evangelion-01]

What focus?
I have played a wide variety of games, Racettear, Bifrost, Atelier Series, Slavemaker, Jack, Whoremaker, Brothel King, Rance, Venus Blood, Corruption of Champions, Lilith's Throne, Kenshi, Crusader Kings.
Whatever possible game Conquest could be, I have played it.
Conquest and Strive before it can only be considered mediocre at it's very best.

None of the game you named here offer the same variety of gamplay and mechanics AND are developed by a single indi Dev.
Each of those games have a focus on either transformation, combat, slavetraining or crafting, some had been developed by comercial companies and most of them are either completed or close to completion... how can you compare any of these games with Strive for conquest?
even a comparison to Strive for Power as a completed game seem like a far stretch.

 

[DuniX]

None of the game you named here offer the same variety of gamplay and mechanics AND are developed by a single indi Dev.

Portals of Phereon exist, all your arguments are invalid.

Each of those games have a focus on either transformation, combat, slavetraining or crafting,

And Conquest is focusing on...?

 

[Evangelion-01]

Portals of Phereon exist, all your arguments are invalid.

Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense... "all your arguments are invalid" to quote yourself here

And Conquest is focusing on...?

On being an intermediate by offering a game that balances all those aspects into a single game... maybe the quote
"A Jack of all trades, yet a master in none" is the best way to describe them