Unreal Engine Subverse [v0.9] [Studio Fow]

[Joshua Tree]

Maybe you shouldn't buy grand thieft auto and instead buy big rigs, lol.


So critique is nonexistent in your world? Imagine hoi4, but where you cant play axis because some vocal idiots thinks it promotes fascism, but you are not suppose to say that its dumb.

Exactly and that is where you don't buy such games. There is a difference between critique something, and want changes that applies to your own preference. Because, screw all those other people right? There will always be unhappy people about something. And still the best thing is.. if you don't like something, stay away from it. Very simple that...

 

[Readerf2b]

There is a difference between critique something, and want changes that applies to your own preference.

There is no difference. When you critique something, it implies that something needs to change to make object of your critique better, at least in your own eyes, especially when its not about someone's preferences but base game feature being done poorly compared to analogues.

 

[Joshua Tree]

There is no difference. When you critique something, it implies that something needs to change to make object of your critique better, at least in your own eyes, especially when its not about someone's preferences but base game feature being done poorly compared to analogues.

No, because everyone have ideas for changes that would in their eyes make things better. It's subjective to your preference, regardless if you have other people that agree with you or not. Because there is other people out there with other ideas that you wouldn't like at all. Imagine they would implement every idea and suggestion people throw at them. How great a game that would make right?

 

[Readerf2b]

No, because everyone have ideas for changes that would in their eyes make things better. It's subjective to your preference, regardless if you have other people that agree with you or not. Because there is other people out there with other ideas that you wouldn't like at all. Imagine they would implement every idea and suggestion people throw at them. How great a game that would make right?

So valid critique, or mass of critique that have common ground is still what? Irrelevant? Comparison critique is irrelevant? You know, you should play big rigs, and than all you can say is that you liked or disliked it. You cant mention what they did wrong.

 

[Limited20]

It's not quite that black and white and I agree that every game is not made for everyone. This one is a gray zone currently. The studio clearly knows there's a good chunk of their target audience (normies) that aren't into the xeno / cuck stuff. And we know they are targeting normies with this game given how they (even Valen noted this) changed some of the forced content that they know is a turn-off to that demographic, but as others noted, this really wasn't a solution since they still contain narrative references to the content. So given what we know, the studio seems like they WANT people who are more into vanilla / romance content to buy their game, but there is a bit of a conflict with some of the content, there.

We're basically at a point now where some folks like enough of the game that they will continue following it in the hope that it ends up in a state they like enough to buy. But with the presence of these forced narrative elements, these people don't feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger on a purchase, and so they remain in a holding pattern so-to-speak to see how things end up. I'm basically in that boat. I think the graphics are great, I think the voice actors and actresses have done a good job and the story is interesting enough and I'd actually like to support them for those reasons. But I'm not going to buy the game with canonized xeno narrative elements.



Can you fill us in on what happened with this? I'm not familiar with this company, so just curious what happened? What made them decide to change their content, exactly, was there an incident of some kind, etc.?

I agree with you completely. Im also on the "Wait and see" with subverse.
But the voice acresses are simple carrying the game in my opion. Kili and Demi can just get me rock hard with their sultry voices


As for NLT media.
They were making hardcore NTR/Cuck/Sharing content at the start. They were making comics about sharing the the mothers, fucking around etc ....

People were not too happy with such content, so with their 1st game they removed almost all such elements from their game.
They made it so the comics are not canon.

But sadly the 1st game has a small sharing scene at the start (But the game is not an ntr,cuck,sharing game).
Some little loser ate out Amber's pussy and you then fucked her. That was the sharing scene. There is no more sharing after that.
The little loser is there to give you the Threat/Danger of NTR. But it never actually happnes.

People did not like that ... so they (the devs) went full vanilla in their next game Treasure of Nadia.
Treasures of Nadia is a full on harem game, where only the MC is fucking the girls. No sharing, no cuck stuff, no ntr, no sloppy seconds etc...
Its honestly one of the best games. The visuals are insane and the animations are smooth and hot.

 

[Limited20]

The fact of the matter is that they clearly want their game to have this kind of slutty mantic stuff, even if it's just small offhanded comments. Even when they tried appeasing to normies, they still have Lily reference her background with fucking aliens. Their own player base is flat out giving them the easy solution to being able to satisfy the players's want for more integrated mantic sex and Fow's obvious own want to see that happen.

This right here !
Because she is referencing this stuff (making it canon), this is a major turn off.
Simply making us hate/dislike the character as a whole.

You won't even need a switch. Just look Summertime Saga for example, which hides its "controversial" trans-content behind a well written two tier ingame choice. Up to this day there are players who played the whole game and who have no idea that the game even has this kind of content while those who like will reach it naturally (and can still decline if they don't want to see it in their playthrough). It's really not that hard if someone is willing to spend a little time and effort on it. Sure, a switch would be fine too but that's already kinda the cheap solution.

As said above, I don't like the vanilla/whiny narrative. They could have written a game for the "non vanilla/not whiney" audience some here describe, but then they'd have lost a ton of sales. The problem isn't that these players exist, the problem is that SOFW obviously caters to them to get their money. And if they do that, they better deliver on that "promise". It doesn't mean that they have to exclude everybody else, as many other games show, but essentially it's really that easy.

Ulitmately it looks like they want to please as many as possible but at least until now chose one of the worst ways to do it. I still hope they may learn from these mistakes and correct them at some point, especially since it's quite easily doable.

I mean, you can satisfy both types of fans when you make things avoidable/optional. Its that simple

For the vanilla people who dislike ntr,sharing,cuking etc ...
Just make it so that only the MC has sex with the girls. They do not fuck around at present with xenos or anybody else. They do not talk about it and its never mentioned in dialog or in the codex.

This can be done with multiple ways. Like you said, this can be done with a choice system
Or like NBV said with, with a kill switch at the start of the game to turn off all ntr, cuckolding, sharing etc ...

That way the player can have a harem of slutty waifus.


On a side note. That after sex cuddle scene with MC and Kili is the most sweet thing ever <3
Game needs more of that

 

[Razrback16]

It's quite simple. They grew up, they got a proper game studio. They hired even more people, there is wages and bills to be paid. They are already making a game for a very small niche market in the game industry. There is nothing more wrong with doing that for them, than you have creators on patreon that bombard their games with a billion tags/fetishes to reach as many as possible. The effect is the same, people get upset, because they can't have the entire cake and eat it too.

No. If what you are saying is accurate (and we know it's not), then they would never have attempted to appeal to a more vanilla group to begin with when they tweaked some of the content / adding pandora, as has already been discussed.

if they do that, they better deliver on that "promise".

^ Yep. If they didn't want money from vanilla players all they had to do was keep to the aforementioned advertising and target audience of the earlier bit on Steam of Lily in the lab with the captain walking by and hearing her get boinked by monsters while not being able to do anything about it - instead they rolled that back along with some other items, but the problem is, they're NOT delivering on that "promise" as it sits currently. They're trying to play both sides of the board and it's not working.

I mentioned in an earlier post, if this is the route they go, then I'd rather see them just go full xeno / cuck so that the people who are into that can 100% have what they want. Don't straddle the line, go full throttle on whatever it is because if you're not going to cut that content for the other side completely then no one will be happy in this instance - and the sad thing is, assuming the narrative isn't full of constant Lily / xeno references via events and dialogue, this really would be easy to address while impacting nothing for the xeno / cuck audience. It just comes down to, as you and others have said, SFOW implemented a poor solution for this.

I agree with you completely. Im also on the "Wait and see" with subverse.
But the voice acresses are simple carrying the game in my opion. Kili and Demi can just get me rock hard with their sultry voices

As for NLT media.
They were making hardcore NTR/Cuck/Sharing content at the start. They were making comics about sharing the the mothers, fucking around etc ....

People were not too happy with such content, so with their 1st game they removed almost all such elements from their game.
They made it so the comics are not canon.

But sadly the 1st game has a small sharing scene at the start (But the game is not an ntr,cuck,sharing game).
Some little loser ate out Amber's pussy and you then fucked her. That was the sharing scene. There is no more sharing after that.
The little loser is there to give you the Threat/Danger of NTR. But it never actually happnes.

People did not like that ... so they (the devs) went full vanilla in their next game Treasure of Nadia.
Treasures of Nadia is a full on harem game, where only the MC is fucking the girls. No sharing, no cuck stuff, no ntr, no sloppy seconds etc...
Its honestly one of the best games. The visuals are insane and the animations are smooth and hot.

Thanks - ya I have heard of Treasures of Nadia and I know it has high praise, but I didn't know the history with the dev. Sounds like they wanted to make some money and I don't fault them a bit for that. When you listen to your customers and find ways to implement solutions to make them happy, I applaud that.

And you know, I don't even mind having the xeno stuff in Subverse as long as the way they choose to implement it gives the player 100% optional control over that content since it's a bit on the fringe. When it's shoved down your throat via dialogue & codex references the player then has no choice in it and it rubs you the wrong way. I'm not even one who has a problem with other males in the narrative even as competition - I like games and stories that have relationship development, and don't expect the MC in a given story to be the only show in town, but if / when a relationship develops I'm just not into cuckoldry / sharing type things. And with Subverse I think that's another area that SFOW has tried to play both sides of the board on - they talk about the female characters like they are waifus and that there is romance, etc. but then I've also seen them reference the relationships being casual, etc. So it's like, which is it? Their biggest problem is just trying to make everybody happy and you can't do that without a proper option system that's more heavily involved in the dialogue / events and not just for pandora scenes.

 

[NBV]

NBV yeah it is that simple. If you don't like something then stay away from it, or you accept there is things you don't like there, but the good stuff outweighs it.

Because strawmanning the idea that every form of criticism about any subject in the game from every person who does it is the right way to go, right? Seriously, this is pathetic. You do know the game is in EA, right? They're even asking for feedback on it. We're talking about a criticism the player base as a whole has been repeatedly bringing up on all their Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and their Steam age. It's only guys like you who want to keep forcing that idea that everyone is being the most extreme and unreasonable guy around. There are some people out there going "ME! ME! ME!", but that isn't what I'm doing. If you're going to tell everyone that they should just not play the game and not give criticism because everything they say just means it's not meant for them, then you really need some kind of reality check. How can anyone keep repeating this garbage and not think they look like a total yesman?

You don't even have the confidence to specifically address some of the things the more reasonable people in these threads are bringing up. You'll instead just zone in on the very fact that they mentioned the Pandora system and repeat your same manthra, then strawman that they're trying to make the game all about their needs. Even when you say something that's proven wrong, you'll just opt to blame someone else over a claim you made. This is some blatant fanboyism here. You guys get called shills because you act like them. The only time of people you'll even put the effort into actually replying to within detail on are the unreasonable guys who are asking for complete blockage of any references to mantic sex in the game, because it's very easy to shut down the most extreme and indefensible guys in the thread. Someone else mentioned that the thread has devolved into just arguing for the sake of argument, but Joshua Tree is one of the biggest reasons why. He will only give people a pass if they're praising the game. He will disagree and then try to paint the narrative that anyone criticizing any feature in the game is being unreasonable, or that they should just not play the game.

And you know, I don't even mind having the xeno stuff in Subverse as long as the way they choose to implement it gives the player 100% optional control over that content since it's a bit on the fringe.

I think that even with an option to make it optional, it should only apply to the sex and some characters. Lily's entire character at her core and introduction is built around nymphomania. It's understandable for her to not mention Mantic sex after she's developed a relationship with the protagonist, but anything before that is simply neutering a character for those who truly want the entire game to be shaped for them, even if it's under the request of it being optional. Lily's sexual background is as part of her character as DBZ's Vegeta's pride and Saiyan worship is to him. In some stories there will be characters who are sexually active and open about it. Having Lily go from being that much of a slut to more reserved for the protagonist (IF the player romances her) would be character development. Completing deleting that part of her with a kill switch is almost censorship of who she is at that point. You guys' request to make the sex part and later references to it by some characters as an optional thing is completely fair, having the char's entire personality changed isn't.

 

[Readerf2b]

You guys' request to make the sex part and later references to it by some characters as an optional thing is completely fair, having the char's entire personality changed isn't.

As I said somewhere up the tread, having a team of galaxy level sluts on board and crying about them being sluts is degeneracy.

 

[Yuriski]

As I said somewhere up the tread, having a team of galaxy level sluts on board and crying about them being sluts is degeneracy.

But isn't that what always happens in games with a male MC?
It's totally ok for the MC to sleep with anything he meets, and the girls need to support that, but as soon as a girl has a sex scene with anyone but the MC (even if it's non-con), people shut down the thread, screaming about NTR.

 

[Parabelum]

Studio Fow just wants some "Call of Duty audience"
I mean.., what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Joshua Tree]

Studio Fow just wants some "Call of Duty audience"
I mean.., what could possibly go wrong?

Oh dear, imagne they out to try make a profit of their game. How dare they right? And the funny thing is majority of the degenerates here would never buy their game regardless. No game studio out there make a game that target "pirates" as their audience. If people where really that vested in critique this game, they wouldn't done it here, where SFOW doesn't even respond or linger about. You would done it on their steam forum, or their own site. Bitching and moaning here have absolutely no impact what so ever on their bottom line. The effect here is like that old guy in The Simpsons throwing a fist at the sky and yelling. By all means, please go on, but it doesn't achieve anything.

 

[Joshua Tree]

NBV find a post where I praised the game?

Think I been constant about a few things.

- I don't see the xeno stuff as ntr what so ever and its optinal if you want to see it or not.
(and people that get hung up over a few lines of text really got issues...)

- The game is nothing more or less than what they presented on their kickstarter page (when I first checked it out), or how it is presented on the steam store page. The shoot em up part, ground combat etc. What people had of expectations of what the game would be, that is on them, and that happened with a lot of games over the years. People "over-hype", and get let down over and over.

- The game is in early access, majority of the meat and potatoes that we were promised is not even released yet. People are throwing a tantrum over 26 lewd scenes that more or less there to show case the system. How Pandora is now with 26 scenes, and how it will be with several hundred scenes, is two different things. You will end up with people bitching and moaning over have to unlock the scenes, and rather want them extracted to see without play the game what so ever.

- The game is what it is, not necessary what everyone want it to be, and seeing all the stuff people ask for on steam and other places, thank fuck for that...

 

[Razrback16]

I think that even with an option to make it optional, it should only apply to the sex and some characters. Lily's entire character at her core and introduction is built around nymphomania. It's understandable for her to not mention Mantic sex after she's developed a relationship with the protagonist, but anything before that is simply neutering a character for those who truly want the entire game to be shaped for them, even if it's under the request of it being optional. Lily's sexual background is as part of her character as DBZ's Vegeta's pride and Saiyan worship is to him. In some stories there will be characters who are sexually active and open about it. Having Lily go from being that much of a slut to more reserved for the protagonist (IF the player romances her) would be character development. Completing deleting that part of her with a kill switch is almost censorship of who she is at that point. You guys' request to make the sex part and later references to it by some characters as an optional thing is completely fair, having the char's entire personality changed isn't.

These are very fair conversation points. Lily's character itself in the way it is written may just be a stand-alone deal breaker for some players. When I play the game, myself, I may just have to kind of 'go around her' character as much as possible as what you describe may be exactly the way the studio looks at it and if this type of content is so deeply ingrained and interwoven in her character and backstory then it's quite possible that no amount of options or switches will ever be able to address her character without borderline deleting her.

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but this brings me back to another post from a few days ago, and I can't remember the poster's name who had mentioned having the possibility of kicking her from the ship when that stuff is mentioned, but it would be a comical resolution for vanilla players that I'd absolutely choose if available - boot her from the ship, you lose her sniper special fire ability both in space and on the ground and then at that point Captain has to hit the battlefield himself and build his own army without mantic units. THAT could be the branching option. That or they could actually consider putting in an option where you can outright reject one of the girls for reasons like this and from that point forward that character is not romanceable and is almost like a 'bro'.

 

[Joshua Tree]

These are very fair conversation points. Lily's character itself in the way it is written may just be a stand-alone deal breaker for some players. When I play the game, myself, I may just have to kind of 'go around her' character as much as possible as what you describe may be exactly the way the studio looks at it and if this type of content is so deeply ingrained and interwoven in her character and backstory then it's quite possible that no amount of options or switches will ever be able to address her character without borderline deleting her.

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but this brings me back to another post from a few days ago, and I can't remember the poster's name who had mentioned having the possibility of kicking her from the ship when that stuff is mentioned, but it would be a comical resolution for vanilla players that I'd absolutely choose if available - boot her from the ship, you lose her sniper special fire ability both in space and on the ground and then at that point Captain has to hit the battlefield himself and build his own army without mantic units. THAT could be the branching option. That or they could actually consider putting in an option where you can outright reject one of the girls for reasons like this and from that point forward that character is not romanceable and is almost like a 'bro'.

Imagine you took a book, and ripped out the chapters you didn't like. Then you gave that book to someone else to read... Lilly is more to the ship and story than just make Mantics... Doesn't people pay any notice to the story at all?, is it just skip anything that doesn't lead to a sex scene? It's like playing Mass Effect and then refuse to have any crew members at all, and expect the story to make sense.

 

[Readerf2b]

It's like playing Mass Effect and then refuse to have any crew members at all, and expect the story to make sense.

Pretty easy to ignore most of team outside their recruitment missions.

 

[Thrway8113]

Man, have you considered sending your complaints to devs? I don't think they read this thread, so it would make more sense to post it maybe on their steam forum or in their discord... The game is still in early stages of development, so maybe SFOW will work on making NTR-ish stuff REALLY avoidable, if they receive more messages with constructive critisism and complaints like yours, who knows (>_>)

Agreed, good suggestion.

These are very fair conversation points. Lily's character itself in the way it is written may just be a stand-alone deal breaker for some players. When I play the game, myself, I may just have to kind of 'go around her' character as much as possible as what you describe may be exactly the way the studio looks at it and if this type of content is so deeply ingrained and interwoven in her character and backstory then it's quite possible that no amount of options or switches will ever be able to address her character without borderline deleting her.

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but this brings me back to another post from a few days ago, and I can't remember the poster's name who had mentioned having the possibility of kicking her from the ship when that stuff is mentioned, but it would be a comical resolution for vanilla players that I'd absolutely choose if available - boot her from the ship, you lose her sniper special fire ability both in space and on the ground and then at that point Captain has to hit the battlefield himself and build his own army without mantic units. THAT could be the branching option. That or they could actually consider putting in an option where you can outright reject one of the girls for reasons like this and from that point forward that character is not romanceable and is almost like a 'bro'.

Yeah, I remember the post you're talking about. And I like the idea that if you can't boot them from the ship, then render them just a colleague on the ship where they're only there for any story based events, essentially give the player the option to then tell Lily 'no thanks' if she's going to be into that stuff and have any content / discussion / dialogues involving her that aren't absolutely necessary for the primary quests to be made unavailable.

With all this discussion and how poorly of a job SFOW has done with this type of integration, I even more firmly believe that they should have just made the game for the people into the monsters and not even tried to introduce vanilla content. If Lily is written to be this depraved intrinsically, then I don't see any hope of recovery from it. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but just my feeling on it. Maybe there will be a Subverse 2 or another IP at some point where they plan better regarding this stuff.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Pretty easy to ignore most of team outside their recruitment missions.

When people doesn't want characters such as Lilly at all... then recruitment missions would been a excluded thing to start with no? Mass Effect was quite liberal when it come to LGBTQ stuff. Should characters just been excluded and removed from your game because you knew there where options they could have gay romances even you didn't opt for them to have? Need to remove the main character, because Sheppard regardless of being male or female, could have same sex romance?

 

[anonaanonon]

You can avoid recruitting/boot/kill over half of the Mass Effect crew if you want to. Mass Effect is a game. Subverse so far is a kinetic novel with a couple asset flip minigames tagged on.

 

[Joshua Tree]

You can avoid recruitting/boot/kill over half of the Mass Effect crew if you want to. Mass Effect is a game. Subverse so far is a kinetic novel with a couple asset flip minigames tagged on.

Just as you can't progress in Mass Effect 1 without interact with Ash, you can't progress in Mass Effect 2 without interact with Miranda. You can't progress in Subverse without interact with Lilly. The kicker is, for both games, you can ignore any optional content with either character that isn't needed to progress the story. Yet there those that want to remove like Lilly from the game all together because of something they know the character can do, but not something they will opt in to watch her do.. its .... retarded...