Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.0] [Studio Fow]

[Readerf2b]

Are you sure we both played the same game? I'm pretty sure we got a sex scene from Lily around the time she joined our crew.


I would somewhat agree on the false advertisement part, but only for the things they promised/teased that are now canned. The stuff with Bulgeto obviously being described as a story or random thing that can happen in the ship encounter. They should have addressed that the entire idea behind how things would be laid out was changing long before they released the game. A lot of people would be upset, but the backlash over the Pandora system wouldn't be as immediate as it was on release. It surprised a lot of people that Mantic scenes were suddenly going to be Pandora exclusive content.

As for the skipping Demi's Blowjob and Lily's scene part... I mean, you just admitted there are sex scenes in the main game... Yeah, if I went into a Japanese hentai game and skipped all the sex scenes, I guess I could run with the logic that there aren't any there too...? I'm confused with this kind of logic.

I had played game only on release day, and blowjob scenes that was outside pandora had shit interface, most people accidentally skipped them and complained on steam. Anyway it amounts two short scenes with close to no dialogs in 5hours gameplay.
The main problem i think is that nowadays than people talk about porn game they mean game were porn is part of the narrative, gameplay, mechanics and reward. Its been a long road since strip-poker was porn game of the year. Subverse now is a strip-poker - you play to minigames without porn outside of enemies looking like dildoes, you read narrative dialogs where sex is often mentioned, but still without actually showing it outside those "introduction" 30sec scenes Joshua Tree is so obsessed about. All porn is in "reward" section - just like strip poker were after winning you get photo of booba. That is serious degradation.

 

[NBV]

There is like a "intro" sex scene with them once you completed their first quest/mission. Lily got one, just as Killison does. But all the xeno stuff is optional from Pandora only. There is no floppy alien dicks hitting your face unless you want to see it

I know, that's what I have been saying. How did you confuse my last comment as me not knowing this?

As for what the game is marketed and sold as. Just go to their steam store page. It should given an accurate description of what it is and isn't..

Their Steam page description isn't the same as it was before the EA was put out. It had originally mentioned other things, such as the Chodestool and Bulgetto scenarios I have mentioned. Their Kickstarter has changed over time as well. Subverse's original descriptions emphasized more on the sex than it does now. Now the Steam page makes it sound like it's equally about the sex and the vast universe and gameplay. Let's not pretend it didn't have different things prior to the EA... or did you just not check prior to the EA's release? My posts prior to the one you chose to reply to even specifically mentions that they originally mentioned things that are now canned, but never changed the page before the EA was released. They waited until the EA was coming out to do a little bit of changing on describing what the game is about.

But even if we ignore the steam page, their Twitter and Dev diaries are still focusing more on teasing lewdness or talking waifus, so why continue to play this game? You should know by now that this isn't going to work. The only people who buy this argument are the one's trying to defend Fow on it. Have you checked their twitter? Aside from the meme and model showcase posts, they do nothing but emphasize the waifus and sexual aspect of the game.

I'm quite sure they had to make compromises in regard of content to bring the game on steam. But tbh, I don't really want to throw shit at them for that when seeing a lot of creators else pander to like Patreon in regard of content of their games. They could just gone to subscribestar and had their "artistic freedom" to do whatever they wanted, but end of the day its about the money....

Steam only doesn't allow Shotacon, Lolicon, and I believe bestiality. Rape is something Steam allows, as there are many Steam games released with Rape content at their forefront, so I never understood FOW's excuse on saying rape was removed to make sure it got on steam. A bunch of loud people crying that everything is NTR doesn't forcefully stop them being just making that content avoidable via a menu check box. These excuses simply don't work.

 

[NBV]

I had played game only on release day, and blowjob scenes that was outside pandora had shit interface, most people accidentally skipped them and complained on steam. Anyway it amounts two short scenes with close to no dialogs in 5hours gameplay.
The main problem i think is that nowadays than people talk about porn game they mean game were porn is part of the narrative, gameplay, mechanics and reward. Its been a long road since strip-poker was porn game of the year. Subverse now is a strip-poker - you play to minigames without porn outside of enemies looking like dildoes, you read narrative dialogs where sex is often mentioned, but still without actually showing it outside those "introduction" 30sec scenes Joshua Tree is so obsessed about. All porn is in "reward" section - just like strip poker were after winning you get photo of booba. That is serious degradation.

You skipping the sex scenes by accident is your own fault, since you legitimately can't accidentally skip them that easily. I don't like how lazy they are either, but you exaggerating on stuff like this is what gives the most extreme defenders the ammo to invalidate other people's posts. You making the claim that there are no sex scenes in the main game makes it easy for them to call you out on the BS and then point back to you when other people who criticizing the game but aren't lying are posting. The game is bare bones at its sex, the very thing that they know is what people expected to not be. Criticize it for having extremely lazy 30 second sex loops even in it's "premium" scenes instead of lying that it doesn't have those scenes to begin with.

You and Joshua Tree is what I was referring to as the two different extremes many posts back. You have the guys who will be completely unreasonable (ask for Mass Effect or just lie) with demands, and then you have those who will eat up everything and defend the game to their dying breath. The latter are the yesmen that will continue making Fow feel like they can keep taking shortcuts, while the way you act will only embolden their beliefs that everyone criticizing them is being unreasonable. You were wrong about there being no sex in the main game. You were corrected and chose to backpaddle and double down instead of admitting the mistake. You skipping all the sex scenes is not the same as there being none in the main game. Accept that. They're lazy, but they're there.

 

[Joshua Tree]

You skipping the sex scenes by accident is your own fault, since you legitimately can't accidentally skip them that easily. I don't like how lazy they are either, but you exaggerating on stuff like this is what gives the most extreme defenders the ammo to invalidate other people's posts. You making the claim that there are no sex scenes in the main game makes it easy for them to call you out on the BS and then point back to you when other people who criticizing the game but aren't lying are posting. The game is bare bones at its sex, the very thing that they know is what people expected to not be. Criticize it for having extremely lazy 30 second sex loops even in it's "premium" scenes instead of lying that it doesn't have those scenes to begin with.

You and Joshua Tree is what I was referring to as the two different extremes many posts back. You have the guys who will be completely unreasonable (ask for Mass Effect or just lie) with demands, and then you have those who will eat up everything and defend the game to their dying breath. The latter are the yesmen that will continue making Fow feel like they can keep taking shortcuts, while the way you act will only embolden their beliefs that everyone criticizing them is being unreasonable. You were wrong about there being no sex in the main game. You were corrected and chose to backpaddle and double down instead of admitting the mistake. You skipping all the sex scenes is not the same as there being none in the main game. Accept that. They're lazy, but they're there.

The introduction sex scenes with the girls, once you completed their quests, is the longer ones that people want to see more of though. So if people skip them, and complain about the shorter ones you can unlock in pandora, they got issues

Tbh complaining about game lacking x & y.. when we so far only got a small portion of the game as whole is also rather silly. The next content update will give a good indication of what will come down the road though.

 

[NBV]

The introduction sex scenes with the girls, once you completed their quests, is the longer ones that people want to see more of though. So if people skip them, and complain about the shorter ones you can unlock in pandora, they got issues

You're wrong about their introduction scenes being longer. Lily's introduction sex scene is only 23 seconds long in total. The rest of Lily's sex scenes in Pandora range from 7 second loops to 32 second loops. Many pages back I posted a screenshot of each Lily scene and numbered how long each one was to you, so why are you acting like you don't know this?

Good job proving my point though. You cherry picked one tiny part of my post and used Readerf2b's complaint to reply to me on something, rather then address any of the other things I've mentioned.

Tbh complaining about game lacking x & y.. when we so far only got a small portion of the game as whole is also rather silly. The next content update will give a good indication of what will come down the road though.

Sure, but being that guy who constantly goes out of his way to only cherry pick the complainers when replying to others giving much larger ranges of feedback is a dumb way to go about doing things too.

 

[Limited20]

FOW obviously doesn't know what NTR is, but to be fair, neither do a lot of people here. A lot of people are calling it NTR, when it's not... but that isn't the problem. An easy solution should have been to just have a check box in the settings to simply hide these small tidbits of dialogue. Yes, it's not NTR, but it still throws off a lot of people who clearly just want to play the game as a vanilla guy. As someone who is extremely disappointed by how much of the game's content has been gimped to appeal to people who are only heavily into vanilla content, I still think it wouldn't be that unreasonable to do something like this. The game shouldn't have to appeal to everyone... but how fucking hard would it be to just have some dialogue (the ones mentioning some characters constantly taking beast/monster dick) as dialogue that can be hidden when a settings option is ticked off? I mean, they wouldn't have had to force the mantic sex scenes to be exclusive to Pandora if they had an option like this to begin with. We're going in circles over the definition of something that both Fow and the people complaining about NTR are wrong about, when the definition itself never should have mattered to begin with. Flag all mantic scenes as avoidable content and link that to a simple check box in the main menu. The setting will be ticked on by default and allow players to encounter these avoidable mantic sex scenes throughout the game.

Remember when they described the players being able to encounter clearly now scrapped scenes like:



If they had just linked these optional encounters into a check box within the main menu, they could have been able to keep these scenes without having to scrap them and leave them as pandora only loops. The worst is that fans of all fetishes would agree to a solution like this, since it harms nobody. People keep saying the the game isn't meant to appeal to everyone, and I would agree, had they not already tried doing that when they moved all the mantic scenes to the pandora only system. They already tried appealing it to everyone in the worst way possible. Not even most the vanilla fans they tried so hard to appease to are satisfied, since they half assed this "fix".

I know someone's going to still try arguing that Fow knows what is and isn't NTR, so let me set it straight. Fow's devs clearly have some form of misunderstanding towards what is NTR. In their defense, neither do a lot of westerns to begin with. The people wrongly crying that EVERYTHING is NTR aren't helping either. They're just as wrong too. Here's a rundown on what NTR is:

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NTR is purely a contextual thing. For example, I'll take a scene FOW once described and explain how it can become not be NTR and can become NTR in different circumstances.


This is a scenario FOW once described we'd be able to encounter in the game. It would be a clear NTR scene if the player had already maxed Lily's Loyalty quests by then and has gotten to the point in the game where the two are considered lovers, or anything close to that level. At that point, the player character is literally being cheated on without his consent, hitting the NTR aspect very hard. If this was more of an introduction to her character and the player doesn't have that kind of relationship with her, then it wouldn't count as NTR or cheating. FOW was swearing that the game would not have NTR, but still teased that scenes like this would exist in the game.

The same applies to scenes like this:

If the player character has maxed Fortune's loyalty quest and she's basically become his lover at that point, it's extremely NTR-ish for players to select the main deck area of the ship and then find Fortune getting bred by a feral mantic. I don't get how this is hard to understand. FOW teasing the idea of scenes like this happening years back but also saying the game had no NTR was a clear sign that they themselves were ignorant to what NTR is. Maybe they assumed it meant consensual cuckolding?

Now, let's talk about the horde of people calling EVERYTHING NTR... Everything ISN'T NTR. Lily mentioning she has sex with aliens in passing isn't NTR, especially if it's at a point in the game where it's impossible for the player to have developed a close enough relationship with her through loyalty quests. What someone like Lily did in the past or currently does while not "being with" the protagonist is not NTR. It may gross you out, but stop calling it something it's not. Now if Lily were to have scenes of her fucking mantics after maxing her final Loyalty Quest where she admits to truly loving the protagonist, scream NTR all the way. Lily's entire character to the core is that she's a slut who fucks mantics. You need to accept it for what it is. She can have room to grow and evolve past that in loyalty quests, but stop expecting even chars built around this idea to start off with zero sexual experience. A character like Fortune is a different case, since she's clearly not someone who randomly fucks anything. It's fair to want an option to turn off Lily and Fortune fucking aliens AFTER you've completed their Loyalty Quests. It is fair to want an option to disable random mantic sex encounters in the game. It is NOT fair to want entire characters (Lily) essentially neutered in story personality to fit your fetish. The problem with FOW is that they'd rather just scrap entire features and ideas then put the small amount of work needed to have a "turn off mantic sex encounters" in the main menu. They'd gladly take the easy route of completely scrapping Bulgetto and Chodestool's random encounter scenes to do lazy loops in Pandora under the excuse of "wanting to not force things in people's faces", while still essentially doing that through dialogue. My gripe with Fow is much they clearly want to take the easy route for everything under the veil of wanting to please everyone, while still not even doing that correctly.

EDIT: What also didn't help the backlash they received from people crying "NTR!!!" at everything was their terrible communication. Hundreds of threads like

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would be posted of people pointing out that exact Bulgetto scenario. FOW's staff would either completely ignore them or issue a blanket statement that there would be no NTR, not addressing the fact that this scene itself can very well be NTR for those who may have leveled up Lily's Loyalty at the time of encountering this scene. It very easily makes people feel like they're not really caring about directly addressing issues and more focused on downplaying or blanket issuing statements to calm people down. This is the same kind of issue people had with the Pandora system on release. Their first Dev Journal entry after Pandora's negative feedback was to issue a blanket statement that they had plans to include more loyalty quest or personalized scenes with the waifus, and that they'd improve Pandora a bit more, rather than directly talk about what they thought of people's feedback on Pandora itself. People don't want to hear a "there is no NTR" statement when you already have the description of one on your steam page, they want to hear you address how that scene isn't NTR or the solutions to not making it NTR. People don't want to you to skirt around their feedback on the Pandora system with "Well, where adding more date scenes of Lily! and Pandora will get better too!", they want you to actually talk about what your plans are for it after hearing their feedback. Their constant blanket statements on everything is what led to those vanilla fans (some very obnoxious..) losing their shit until FOW caved and completely neutered the game's content. Maybe this could have been avoided with better feedback and more listening to people's comments?

I agree on most of what you said. But you are missing the point here...

I agree that not everything is NTR. But we do not have terms and tags for the things we are talking about. So we are using "NTR" as a general term here.
If something makes the player feel jealous, cucked, betrayed etc ... then we just say NTR.
We are not strictly talking about netorare.

As for you missing the point. You are totally off the mark with that loyalty quest stuff.
Nobody cares about the female charaters past. They could have fucked everything that moves, nobody cares.
But the moment they are on the team with the MC, they should stop fucking around, regardless of loyalty quests.
At least optionally.

Like you said, it would be great if there was the a tick option to disable the girls from fucking around at present.
Not fucking others characters, not fucking any monsters/xenos etc ...
The girls not talking about how they fucked something on the ship, no dialog that reflects that etc ...

It would still be horrible if we have to play up to the girls loyalty quest, in order for them to stop fucking others/xenos.
And if we do not do their loyalty quests, they fuck around and talk about it.... this is sad and depressing
Thats like getting sloppy seconds...
This is exactly what most of do not want from the game and want it to be optional.

If the girls are still fucking around, this will just make us dislike them. This will change our perception of them. They will be dead to us and we will have no interest towards them, or care about them.

 

[Readerf2b]

You skipping the sex scenes by accident is your own fault, since you legitimately can't accidentally skip them that easily. I don't like how lazy they are either, but you exaggerating on stuff like this is what gives the most extreme defenders the ammo to invalidate other people's posts. You making the claim that there are no sex scenes in the main game makes it easy for them to call you out on the BS and then point back to you when other people who criticizing the game but aren't lying are posting. The game is bare bones at its sex, the very thing that they know is what people expected to not be. Criticize it for having extremely lazy 30 second sex loops even in it's "premium" scenes instead of lying that it doesn't have those scenes to begin with.

You and Joshua Tree is what I was referring to as the two different extremes many posts back. You have the guys who will be completely unreasonable (ask for Mass Effect or just lie) with demands, and then you have those who will eat up everything and defend the game to their dying breath. The latter are the yesmen that will continue making Fow feel like they can keep taking shortcuts, while the way you act will only embolden their beliefs that everyone criticizing them is being unreasonable. You were wrong about there being no sex in the main game. You were corrected and chose to backpaddle and double down instead of admitting the mistake. You skipping all the sex scenes is not the same as there being none in the main game. Accept that. They're lazy, but they're there.

Fow just made bare minimum to not completely break their initial promises. Does this game have porn implemented in game? Yes, it is three short bj loops in 5hours. Was i criticizing subverse for not being ME with porn? No, i never had my hopes so high.
The question is, how much porn there should be in game to call it porn-game?

The introduction sex scenes with the girls, once you completed their quests, is the longer ones that people want to see more of though. So if people skip them, and complain about the shorter ones you can unlock in pandora, they got issues

How big are they compared to the whole 5hours of existing game? They combined are less than two minutes.

Tbh complaining about game lacking x & y.. when we so far only got a small portion of the game

So this small portion is not representative or what? You think fow are idiots who make worst porn/game ratio part into early access so they have negative PR from supporters?

 

[NBV]

I agree on most of what you said. But you are missing the point here...

I agree that not everything is NTR. But we do not have terms and tags for the things we are talking about. So we are using "NTR" as a general term here.
If something makes the player feel jealous, cucked, betrayed etc ... then we just say NTR.
We are not strictly talking about netorare.

We do have terms and tags for those things. Lily cheating on the protagonist or fucking someone without his consent while in a relationship with him is NTR. Lily fucking other people on or outside of the ship before even getting with the protagonist isn't. It's that simple. Spamming NTR to everything is probably one of the reasons why FOW did initially ignore all those posts until they eventually couldn't. They should have handled it better, but you didn't make it easy.

As for you missing the point. You are totally off the mark with that loyalty quest stuff.
Nobody cares about the female charaters past. They could have fucked everything that moves, nobody cares.
But the moment they are on the team with the MC, they should stop fucking around, regardless of loyalty quests.
At least optionally.

No, you missed the point of what I said. Joining the MC's crew doesn't mean they automatically belong to the MC. Lily is a free spirited slut and fucked everything. Only when she is in a relationship with the MC is when it makes sense for her to stop. That's called character development that is able to appease people without completing neutering the character itself. She starts off a slut, finds someone she actually likes (the MC), gets with him (loyalty quests), and then remains exclusively to him. It's stupidly unreasonable to expect the devs to change her char to not be that way the moment she joins the ship. The only fair solution is to have a setting that simply disables scenes of her fucking other chars in the main menu, so it's not in your face.

 

[Joshua Tree]

NBV So where was In fault for saying the introduction sex scenes was longer? People want more of the yellow premium scenes than the other ones. People really need a reality check on how long scenes can end up or not when looking at total number of scenes the game will end up with. Just look at how many scenes they planned to release for the next content update. In addition to story content.

 

[Limited20]

No, you missed the point of what I said. Joining the MC's crew doesn't mean they automatically belong to the MC. Lily is a free spirited slut and fucked everything. Only when she is in a relationship with the MC is when it makes sense for her to stop. That's called character development that is able to appease people without completing neutering the character itself. She starts off a slut, finds someone she actually likes (the MC), gets with him (loyalty quests), and then remains exclusively to him. It's stupidly unreasonable to expect the devs to change her char to not be that way the moment she joins the ship. The only fair solution is to have a setting that simply disables scenes of her fucking other chars in the main menu, so it's not in your face.

And like I said. This will make us dislike her and lose all interest in her.

If the devs do not make this stuff avoidable/optional. And she fuckes around before we do her loyalty quest.
Than she is dead to us. And it will be better if the devs made the option to kick her out,not recruit her, remove her from the ship.
That way we have nothing to do with her.

Nobody wants to see their waifu getting fucked or knowing it happens at present

 

[Joshua Tree]

Fow just made bare minimum to not completely break their initial promises. Does this game have porn implemented in game? Yes, it is three short bj loops in 5hours. Was i criticizing subverse for not being ME with porn? No, i never had my hopes so high.
The question is, how much porn there should be in game to call it porn-game?



How big are they compared to the whole 5hours of existing game? They combined are less than two minutes.


So this small portion is not representative or what? You think fow are idiots who make worst porn/game ratio part into early access so they have negative PR from supporters?

How can it be representative when majority of the girls not there, and the scenes included in Pandora is more or less a show case of what to follow. The dating sytems, the girls loyality missions etc not even in the game yet. And that's where we been told the meat on the bones will be.

 

[Readerf2b]

How can it be representative when majority of the girls not there, and the scenes included in Pandora is more or less a show case of what to follow. The dating sytems, the girls loyality missions etc not even in the game yet. And that's where we been told the meat on the bones will be.

So fow are idiots. Ok, no surprise that idiots failed to make a decent porn game. No surprise that idiots support other idiots no matter what.

 

[Joshua Tree]

So fow are idiots. Ok, no surprise that idiots failed to make a decent porn game. No surprise that idiots support other idiots no matter what.

You do know the concept of early access do you?

 

[NBV]

NBV So where was In fault for saying the introduction sex scenes was longer? People want more of the yellow premium scenes than the other ones. People really need a reality check on how long scenes can end up or not when looking at total number of scenes the game will end up with. Just look at how many scenes they planned to release for the next content update. In addition to story content.

What? You said the introduction sex scenes were longer than the Pandora (Mantic) ones, I'm telling that you're wrong. Are you that incapable of accepting that you could be wrong and that not everyone is being unreasonable that we must go in circles over this? It's not my or anyone else's fault you said something wrong.

Maybe people want quality over quantity? The biggest complaint was the scenes all being 7 to 30 second loops at best. What did FOW do? Announce that they were going to release 20 more, not addressing whether or not they'd be longer. They're clearly missing the mark here. Does 20 more scenes really matter if 15 of them are 15 second looks again?

 

[Joshua Tree]

What? You said the introduction sex scenes were longer than the Pandora (Mantic) ones, I'm telling that you're wrong. Are you that incapable of accepting that you could be wrong and that not everyone is being unreasonable that we must go in circles over this? It's not my or anyone else's fault you said something wrong.

Maybe people want quality over quantity? The biggest complaint was the scenes all being 7 to 30 second loops at best. What did FOW do? Announce that they were going to release 20 more, not addressing whether or not they'd be longer. They're clearly missing the mark here. Does 20 more scenes really matter if 15 of them are 15 second looks again?

Where did you get 20 more from? Their last update they said they would be releasing 50+ new scenes for Pandora.

 

[Readerf2b]

50+ new scenes for Pandora.

Better release them on pornhub straightaway. At least it wouldn't take several hours of mediocre to bad gameplay.

 

[NBV]

Where did you get 20 more from? Their last update they said they would be releasing 50+ new scenes for Pandora.

Point is that quality should be more important than quality. We do not know if they'll continue being 7 to 30 second long loops, because they refuse to address that part of criticism. 50 is a lot, but if they're all just glorified webm loops? What if 20 of them are only 30 seconds long? What if the rest range between 10 and 20 seconds of loop length? Is that really what some of that million dollar funding is going towards? What if 10 of those 50 scenes are only 7 seconds long?

They have done nothing to address if they plan to improve on that part of the critic. Announcing MORE stuff that people are already heavily critical over doesn't just make things better.

 

[Zeddy]

A lot of this thread is subjective complaints. This game isn't hurting anyone. The worst it's doing is disappointing some people and there are worse things in the games industry to be upset about. People here are talking in circles and trying to catch each other out more than having an actual discussion. You all should take a moment to self reflect.

No surprise that idiots support other idiots no matter what.

Throwing around personal insults never makes the one giving them look good.

 

[Readerf2b]

Throwing around personal insults never makes the one giving them look good.

If you are trying to be a voice of reason you are clearly on the wrong internet page.

A lot of this thread is subjective complaints. This game isn't hurting anyone. The worst it's doing is disappointing some people and there are worse things in the games industry to be upset about.

Making bad, but profitable games is hurting the playerbase, because next time industry will drop the quality even lower. We already have ton of problems like patreon milking farms, because people blindly supported games in years of stagnation.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Point is that quality should be more important than quality. We do not know if they'll continue being 7 to 30 second long loops, because they refuse to address that part of criticism. 50 is a lot, but if they're all just glorified webm loops? What if 20 of them are only 30 seconds long? What if the rest range between 10 and 20 seconds of loop length? Is that really what some of that million dollar funding is going towards? What if 10 of those 50 scenes are only 7 seconds long?

They have done nothing to address if they plan to improve on that part of the critic. Announcing MORE stuff that people are already heavily critical over doesn't just make things better.

Current content is like 26 scenes in Pandora, where of 6 is "premium".. 3 of these again is the recruitment scenes that you get as part of the story, and is sex scenes you get to see regardless of Pandora or not. Adding 50+ new scenes just to Pandora in addition to the other story stuff, is more than double down twice over on content to the current game.

Oh and please stop with the million funding bullcrap already. Running a game studio have expenses. People doesn't work for a pat on the shoulder. Try start a game studio, hire 12 people and see how much that end up cost you over a period of 2 years along with other running costs you might have.