- Dec 28, 2019
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Lol, I'm so lost.. why are you bringing this up now? You never even hinted at this before.
Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.0] [Studio Fow]
- Oct 25, 2019
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I scrolled up to my previous comments and noticed that I failed to tie both topics together — my bad
Always was. Self-insert is a very low quality genre.
Lets stop on this level. You are not a captain, you dont have spaceship or harem. You are not cucked. If you feel cucked, you are self-inserting too hard.
You are right, who cares. So why is it necessary to flip your shit and write page after page about it?
- Dec 28, 2019
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Me personally... I have no dog in this race. I'd never fuck anyone on that ship, and I don't care for FOW's sexual tastes.
I find it strange how people are willing to take the benefits of empathy while trying to wash over the feelings of people about the negatives.
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By your argument, NTR and the concept of roleplaying literally doesn't exist.
I feel like people who like NTR probably don't agree with you.
Ahh... my shit was being flipped XD
In fact, I wrote multiple pages about it...
Wait... no... that didn't happen.
I'm actually just having a calm discussion with someone over the span of two posts.
Have no point here. Its not a roleplaying game.
Probably dont like this game.
Ah, you got me with your amazing ability of missing the point and thinking everything revolves around you.
Yes, YOU are having a calm discussion. But in your post, you accused me of being unreasonable for expecting people to not care about the whole "sleeping around" thing, argueing that it's "just fantasy".
So, again I ask, if it is just fantasy, why is it necessary that, in pretty much any game where women have even just a chance of sleeping around, people need to fill page after page of angry posts about how it?
- Dec 28, 2019
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The concept of roleplaying and the genre of RPG are different things.
Roleplaying is the idea of inhabiting a character you are not.
Most games have roleplaying to some degree.
Let's take the Batman Arkham games as an example. Those games are not RPGs. They are action adventure, but you are in the role of Batman. The game gives you tools and limitations to feel like batman, and focus on that aspect of characterization.
Most people would hear this and say, aren't all games roleplaying games then?
Technically most are, but puzzles such as Tetris and Candy Crush don't actually give you a role to play.
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The genre of RPG takes the core of the roleplaying and makes that the focus. It has genre conventions like stats to manage and player choice.
I feel like you're being curt and dismissive of my statements when I repeatedly said the game wasn't NTR in the first place.
Haaa... Well I feel like trying to discuss with someone who has no desire to isn't worth my time.
Thinking everything revolves around me?
In a discussion where I'm engaging with other people? How...
Accused you of being unreasonable?
Word for word, unedited response.
" Why are you making this sound like it's unreasonable XD"
When did I call you unreasonable?
I didn't say, "You're being unreasonable for thinking people don't want this."
With that out of the way, to the main question.
Is this true?
Like... as a game developer I pay attention to a lot of games. I don't really pay too much attention to the western VN DAZ 3D sphere, so I wouldn't know about them, but for the most part I keep track of things.
To me this is not true.
Hurricanedotcom girls have slutty girls and no one talks about them like that.
In fact most japanese games with female protagonists have slutty heroines. All of OneOneOne's games have super slut heroines. People aren't filling page after page of angry posts about the girls sleeping around.
Karryn's Prison doesn't have anyone saying anything like that...
And there's so many more games with sexually promiscuous girls where no one says anything about the heroines' sexual promiscuity.
Why is it being brought up here? Expectations.
Oneoneone heroines being sluts is expected. That's their whole thing.
Why were expectations for StudioFOW's game so different? Honestly. It was probably how big the kickstarter got. Most people lean vanilla, and most consumers of these types of works are men, so it's pretty obvious that they would want exclusive girls but want multiple partners for themselves.
They didn't just make 2 mil. They made 2 mil normie dollars.
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- Oct 25, 2019
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I will somewhat disagree with you on this, I like NTR but I don't project onto the character nor self insert. My approach towards games and role-playing in general is that I look at it as what would that character do as opposed to what would I do in that situation, hence probably why I don't quite understand the overly attachment to specific things? It could be just a me thing.
Since you mentioned Batman Arkham I will use it as an example (amazing games btw, where is Arkham Knights damn it!!!), in those games I dont feel like I am Batman but that I am controlling Batman. I play them with the mindset of how would Batman approach this situation as opposed to what would I do here if I was Batman — I know that some people don't approach games in this way but it's how I tend to.
I like NTR and I don't dislike this game, for now it's extremely underwhelming but doesn't mean I dislike it. The update at the end of the month (depending on the amount of content) is what might end up cementing my overall opinion of the game since I doubt much in the game will change after that update. Also I like other genres besides NTR, including vanilla.
Also let's not forget that we are talking about porn games which at the end of the day their objective is to arouse, so what is important is whether if the situations the characters find themselves in are sexy or arousing or not.
Also also there's the fact that for some of us fiction is fiction and reality is reality, just because one might like NTR or other questionable kinky stuff in fiction doesn't mean they are into it irl — let's keep these two things very separated xD. I notice that at times these 2 things tend to get blurred a bit in discussions.
Yes and no, in any game where one controls a male protagonist there will always be a few people that complain if any if the girls end up being someone that sleeps around but to be fair I have seen people complain in games that have a female protagonist about the fact that the character you are controlling is female and they would prefer it if the game had a male protagonist. Some people just like to complain.
I will agree that Subverse was a bit of a special case since like you said it had a lot of normie dollar behind it.
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- Dec 28, 2019
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That's the same thing.
How would batman approach the situation is called roleplaying.
what would I do here if I were batman is called roleplaying.
I think you misunderstood what he said.
I'll quote him.
By that logic, it is literally impossible for any work to be NTR.
Hmmm... This is a different discussion, but I'll take the bait.
I kinda disagree.
If you like anal in fiction, you'll probably want to try anal.
If you like cowgirl sex position in fiction, you'll probably want to try cowgirl in real life.
If you like mating press and girls gasping for breath under you as you rail them, you'll probably like that in real life.
What you like is what you like. There is no getting around that.
EDIT: Actually... you know what. I'm done here. I usually check up on this game every few months to keep up on the discussion since this game is so big, and the discussion can be indicative of larger market trends and demand. I'm getting a bit too into the minute details of things that I honestly don't care about since I don't sexually care about this game. Probably'll come back eventually. Later.
- Dec 9, 2017
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And there goes another 2 pages worth of 'what is NTR 101' lol. All while the content that's perceived as such but isn't is totally optional to unlock *continues munching popcorn*
Well, let me try to spice up the topic again I guess, lol.
Well, it would appear that this "theory" of mine was shared by the overwhelming majority of forum members who voted on that poll. I made it specifically to find out if it was just me "reading too much into things" or misunderstanding the meaning of that stretch goal, but nope:
Finally, there's no way that you of all people, VincentValentine, who spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on FOW's most hardcore productions back during their Patreon days and even appeared in their end credits, can convince me that you expected a "game with porn, not a porn game" lol. I remember you even admitted that you expected more from the whole Pandora system back when the game was first released, so it just seems to me you are trying too hard to defend studio FOW, whom you have spent so much time and money supporting. It's OK to point out misleading claims and mistakes made by the studio even as a supporter, as otherwise they would just be stuck in an echo chamber and have no incentive to improve.
- Dec 9, 2017
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42 votes isn't really saying that much. And who knows, perhaps there are lewd cinematic scenes. Given Ela's bio that she's a famous porn star, it wouldn't shock me if the first cutscene we see of her is her masturbating in her prison cell
but I think you went a bit far in trying to frame it as a 'boom gotcha' thing. Like if it were on youtube, it'd be an all caps clickbait title.They have been getting feedback, just not from here, which is why I think most of this discussion is rather redundant. They have incentive to improve, as obviously they'd want to sell the game more.
Yes I've said the pandora system didn't impress early, that isn't in debate. But they've stated why it was so barebones, and what they're looking to improve on it. So until we see said improvements, which won't be til after the Ela update, what is there to discuss? I am not saying this forum has to be a continual circle jerk, that wouldn't mean much either. I'm good discussing what folks did or didn't like. But I don't enjoy engaging with people who can only envision the game as what they wanted it to be, demand unrealistic things, or have unrealistic expectations.
It's been a long 7 months, so let's just see how things changed before all the jabs and endless NTR debates come back again.
Edit: forgot to address the 'did you expect a game' part but...yeah I did. All you ever heard in interviews with the voice actors were how impressed they were that there was an actual game to go along with all the smut. I totally wanted something I could enjoy as a full game, not just something built on RPGmaker that uses the same menu and gameplay systems, not just a visual novel with flat images and binary choices that lead to good or bad endings, not just a match-3 game for a single lewd image. I'm quite happy with the game part of it, so all I'm really waiting on is how they'll improve on the smut parts.
Ah, but surely you know 42 is the ultimate number that can answer the meaning of life, the universe and everything (including hentai)42 votes isn't really saying that much. And who knows, perhaps there are lewd cinematic scenes. Given Ela's bio that she's a famous porn star, it wouldn't shock me if the first cutscene we see of her is her masturbating in her prison cell
I agree that that the studio have stated that they are going to make "improvements", but just like another forum member posted some time ago, they have been so vague and infrequent in their communcation with backers that we still have no idea how exactly they plan to improve the smut parts. They mentioned an "evolution" of Pandora (yeah, that totally clears things up lol) and even tiny bit about "integrating more sex into the main story" with the new Elaisha recruitment mission, but weren't the existing recruitment missions already the only thing vaguely resembling some kind of context-driven scenes? How exactly are they improving on that? No one knows.
As low-budget as those games are, there's something to be said about how those technical limitations inspired their creators to be, well, creative. The context, set-up and erotic writing during those simple static CG scenes make them much more effective than anything we have seen in Subverse so far in my opinion. Just look at games like "Noxian Nights" and "Kingdom of Deception" as an example. It's a shame to see that a studio with so much experience in movie production and such a large budget can't seem to appreciate the importance of propely setting up those fancy Unreal Engine scenes (or should I say gifs).
- Dec 9, 2017
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Regarding communication, the team has been small, so time taken to talk to the public is time not spent on the game. There were plenty of interviews during the campaign, but none after. They have admitted their faults in the last diary update, so we can only hope that'll change now that they're back on track.Ah, but surely you know 42 is the ultimate number that can answer the meaning of life, the universe and everything (including hentai)
I agree that that the studio have stated that they are going to make "improvements", but just like another forum member posted some time ago, they have been so vague and infrequent in their communcation with backers that we still have no idea how exactly they plan to improve the smut parts. They mentioned an "evolution" of Pandora (yeah, that totally clears things up lol) and even tiny bit about "integrating more sex into the main story" with the new Elaisha recruitment mission, but weren't the existing recruitment missions already the only thing vaguely resembling some kind of context-driven scenes? How exactly are they improving on that? No one knows.
As low-budget as those games are, there's something to be said about how those technical limitations inspired their creators to be, well, creative. The context, set-up and erotic writing during those simple static CG scenes make them much more effective than anything we have seen in Subverse so far in my opinion. Just look at games like "Noxian Nights" and "Kingdom of Deception" as an example. It's a shame to see that a studio with so much experience in movie production and such a large budget can't seem to appreciate the importance of propely setting up those fancy Unreal Engine scenes (or should I say gifs).
They're not gonna spell out how Ela's mission is gonna be different, I imagine they'd want to keep that a surprise. Again given her character bio, I expect a quite erotic romp. Killi's was a treasure hunt. Ela's I'll bet is a quest to make the best porno ever xD
While there are some standouts in the smaller engines, they also have fewer things to deal with. Making a full-fledged game involves a lot more work than those, I'd think. Even with experienced devs, you can still come across problems with a modern engine. Hell just look at Fallout 76, hundreds of employees and several studios and it still arrived a bug-laden mess. So I'd want FOW to spend as much time as needed to get it right, rather than rush it out.
- Dec 1, 2017
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Yeah, Studio FOW is getting a lot of feedback alright! Mostly from steam discussions and their discord. Everything is good, the game is awesome it seems because thanks to moderating these platform there is no more negative feedback, it somehow disappeared along with the users who posted it.
KS's updates now look like this:
Because somehow platform on which your game was funded is not a place good enough to post updates. I am also sure it has nothing to do with being unable to moderate comments on KS.
KS's updates now look like this:
Because somehow platform on which your game was funded is not a place good enough to post updates. I am also sure it has nothing to do with being unable to moderate comments on KS.
- Jun 26, 2017
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Why is having more text in a forum discussion bad...? Are we not all adults?
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- Dec 1, 2017
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There is a moment in human life when you no longer need pictures between the text to enjoy reading. Be aware that since most people here are 18+ based on the theme of this forum there are more words than pictures or emotes during the discussions. For whatever the reason it seems to be an issue for you so let me offer you a place where you will probably find something that will interest you more than sitting here:...and we're back to the walls of text
You must be registered to see the links
- Jul 27, 2017
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Shorter, concise statements that are on point and easy to understand shows that someone is taking the time to curate their thoughts. Having a brain explosion of text that rambles on doesn't show maturity in my opinion. This is why people joke about walls of text.
I'm not attacking anyone here because most of the long posts in this thread are fine and aren't what I described above. I'm simply answering the question. I try to avoid writing longer posts so people don't assume I'm rambling and wasting time. I have enjoyed, when I have time to read, the longer posts discussing realistic alternative solutions or possible fixes to some of the games problems, and hope that similar feedback does reach the devs in someway. The topic of the discord and steam mods does make me pessimistic about that though.