Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[KittyMaid]

BG3's early access was an early access build of the game for testing
Subverse's Early Access is pretty much the full game with updates as more content has been added. They've been adding full content until now, it's just really dumb that for this one instance they are withholding it, and it more sounds like cope that the cinematics themselves are actually unfinished and won't be until the 1.0 release.

How is it the full game? They don't even have the full cast yet. At the start you only had 2 characters, how was that a full game? Even now they still need the devotion quests for each which play a big role in the game. Just like the Romance in Baldur's Gate. The whole game revolves around the "waifus", they are part of both the game side and the porn side. So no its not a "full game". For example in patch 0.4.0 they stated:
NEW – EXPERIMENTAL NSFW SCENE
One scene with Taron is enabled for interactivity. It happens during the story, so you don’t have to worry about missing it. You can move the camera around and interact with Taron’s body parts. This is a prototype so we are looking for feedback from you guys on this!

NEW SPACE COMBAT MODES
We’ve added two new experimental game modes (one instance of each); a Stealth style mission where you have to sneak past patrols while unlocking doors, and another one based around Resource collection. Both modes need feedback from the players on how to improve them

"Experimental" doesn't mean full or finished, it means its being tested.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

BG3's early access was an early access build of the game for testing
Subverse's Early Access is pretty much the full game with updates as more content has been added. They've been adding full content until now, it's just really dumb that for this one instance they are withholding it, and it more sounds like cope that the cinematics themselves are actually unfinished and won't be until the 1.0 release.

How is it the full game when the main story isn't finished? You have a very fucking weird definition going on, mate.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

How is it the full game when the main story isn't finished? You have a very fucking weird definition going on, mate.

The story content is the full game, as I doubt any cinematics there will be altered, as much work has gone into them.

That said, the devotion missions are considered optional content. Heck before all this drama, there were initial plans to add the devotion missions after the story was complete. But they changed their minds, and are choosing to get everything done now to deliver as complete a package as possible.

But yet people still want to complain because they’re holding the best til the end.

 

[KittyMaid]

The story content is the full game, as I doubt any cinematics there will be altered, as much work has gone into them.

That said, the devotion missions are considered optional content. Heck before all this drama, there were initial plans to add the devotion missions after the story was complete. But they changed their minds, and are choosing to get everything done now to deliver as complete a package as possible.

But yet people still want to complain because they’re holding the best til the end.

That just kinda proves its not a full game, they wouldn't debate their plans if it was the full game. They realised that the devotion missions are part of the whole "RPG" aspect of the game, which its labeled as. You even used the phrase "complete a package as possible" aka "full game".

 

[KittyMaid]

*self talking*

That takes up waaay too much space, highly doubt anyone would read all of that. They are here for porn gaming, not whatever that is.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

The story content is the full game, as I doubt any cinematics there will be altered, as much work has gone into them.

That said, the devotion missions are considered optional content. Heck before all this drama, there were initial plans to add the devotion missions after the story was complete. But they changed their minds, and are choosing to get everything done now to deliver as complete a package as possible.

But yet people still want to complain because they’re holding the best til the end.

When I talk about full game I mean that everything is complete, not how untouched any content will be in the final release.

talking-to-the-wall.gif That takes up waaay too much space, highly doubt anyone would read all of that. They are here for porn gaming, not whatever that is.

From my experience people are here either to coom or to bitch. Seems to be a constant in most threads. Though I gotta say this thread is way better than the fucking Summertime Saga one.

 

[KittyMaid]

Oh no how do I solve the problem of seeing posts from someone I don't want to read? What a conundrum!
View attachment 2905162

or you can get acquainted with the rules





Keyword: Excessive

 

[Cpt.SumTingWong]

Still waiting for mantic orgy scenes...

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Still waiting for mantic orgy scenes...

the most participants you could see in one scene is 4 so don’t think that’ll qualify

 

[vutaboss]

I really hope the "4-minute short film" that comes from completing the devotion quest isn't just captain-on-waifu. I follow Studio FOW for girls getting banged by mantics, none of this vanilla shit

 

[benisfug]

I will say I don't agree with HentaiCut, but considering they started their statement with, "For me..." what follows was always going to be a subjective opinion. Don't know why you need to point that obvious fact out like your the Dude.
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Vvalen is right however, that ~50% rating is tainted due to the China review bombs making very unreliable as far as gauging overall popular sentiment, that whole situation was out of FOW's control anyway.

But I would say it's inherently flawed to appeal to popularity in either case. Thousands of reviews are just a collection of subjective opinions regardless of which direction they happen to swing, good or bad.

Edit:

The Subverse-feedback channel in their Discord has people sharing their displeasure with the recent blog post, so I would say nobody is nuking negative feedback there.

Don't look at Steam then, look at GOG or this thread. Both ratings are also ~50% and there was never any review bomb.

Saying majority opinion doesn't matter when there's overwhelming criticism of the devs and the game on every platform with open reviews is a big cop-out.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Don't look at Steam then, look at GOG or this thread. Both ratings are also ~50% and there was never any review bomb.

Saying majority opinion doesn't matter when there's overwhelming criticism of the devs and the game on every platform with open reviews is a big cop-out.

tbf a lot of these early reviews and ratings are from people who don't know what constitutes NTR. Or those that only played the initial launch version. Its not as though they can come back and edit them.

 

[benisfug]

tbf a lot of these early reviews and ratings are from people who don't know what constitutes NTR. Or those that only played the initial launch version. Its not as though they can come back and edit them.

The NTR thing was never a notable contributor to negative reviews and most of them don't mention it. Newer negative reviews echo most of the same complaints as older reviews. I know because we've had this exact conversation before. It ended with you telling me that no criticism is valid because A: it's subjective or B: it's early access, then you told me to stop posting.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

The NTR thing was never a notable contributor to negative reviews and most of them don't mention it. Newer negative reviews echo most of the same complaints as older reviews. I know because we've had this exact conversation before. It ended with you telling me that no criticism is valid because A: it's subjective or B: it's early access, then you told me to stop posting.

Aye, and then you came back and are trying to make some definitive statement based on a static rating on a site that doesn’t really fluctuate. Which doesn’t really matter. Makes ya wonder why you’d bring it up again.

Let me put it like this: even if FOW magically addressed every single bit of the game’s criticism, warranted or not, how many users on this site do you actually expect will come back and submit another review and change its rating?

 

[benisfug]

Aye, and then you came back and are trying to make some definitive statement based on a static rating on a site that doesn’t really fluctuate. Which doesn’t really matter. Makes ya wonder why you’d bring it up again.

Let me put it like this: even if FOW magically addressed every single bit of the game’s criticism, warranted or not, how many users on this site do you actually expect will come back and submit another review and change its rating?

My opinions haven't changed because the game hasn't changed. The statements I made about reviews are still correct. The low score isn't due to misunderstanding, NTR seething, unrealistic expectations, or review bombing. It's as simple as ~50% of people not liking the game for basic reasons which are plainly stated in most of the reviews.

We could speculate about Bizarro Subverse ratings all day but you once told me most of the game isn't going to change and I believe it. They aren't going to magically address every single bit of criticism even if it were possible because they don't want to, this is what they want the game to be.

 

[benisfug]

The overwhelming % of the majority of negative reviews on Steam happen to line up exactly with the China news. It's a metric you can see and measure. Try and cloud that fact all day, it doesn't change the data.
View attachment 2917808

Then there is the issue with you trying to use all of the GOG reviews, anyone can submit a review, making that 3.3 score about as reliable as metacritic(aka it's crap), and when you check the box in the review search to only see the average for verified owners only, the average shoots up from 3.3/5 to 4.2/5.

The issue with using this thread's reviews is using a data pool of only currently 232 reviews, and trying to say it's reliable data as compared to the Steam reviews when you've taken the review bomb into account(16,626-3,868), you still have 12,758 reviews, meaning F95 has less than 2% of the total amount of reviews, so from the perspective of trying to collect the most amount of data to form an idea of popular consensus, F95 isn't nearly as reliable as a data point with it's much tinier sample size, by several factors.

If you actually look at the reviews that got caught in the big flag you'll see that a couple days before the China review bomb a bunch of legitimate reviewers started leaving negative reviews citing a disappointing update and continued failure by FOW to meet their own deadlines among other things. It was the first big drop in reviews the game had. After the review bomb got filtered all reviews from that period got filtered.

GOG also started picking up negative reviews around the same time as Steam. Since FOW exclusively gave Steam keys to backers any backer who wanted to write a GOG review and have it count as owned would have had to re-buy the game.

F95 may not have the most reviews but it has the most detailed ones going into great detail about nearly every single aspect of the game.

It sure is convenient for FOW that every single site that offers user reviews for the game is tainted and unreliable somehow, I'm sure that's not being exploited at all.

 

[benisfug]

That last claim, that it's "convenient" that every site is tainted.

You claimed the low rating on GOG is legitimate, but not only is there is no way to see just how many reviews there are on GOG's site, making it even worse than just being a small sample size, it's approaching being unfalsifiable, and there is no verification on reviews. I copy/pasted a review from here to GOG just to see, I don't own the game on that platform, and it let me post it with no issues whatsoever.

That rebuttal about F95 having more detailed reviews does not address the fact that it's a tiny sample size in compsarison. Quality data is good, and F95 is higher on quality because this site actually curates and enforces rules on reviews, but at a certain point, quantity wins out, when there is enough of it, the sheer sample size is enough to compensate for it's lower quality on average, and there is roughly 60 times as much data.

I already talked about why I don't think GOG reviews are illegitimate and how Steam reviews are skewed due to the review bomb flagging system taking a chunk of legitimate reviews down. We're back at the same place, all roads end in negative reviews not mattering. Again very convenient for FOW.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

The NTR thing was never a notable contributor to negative reviews and most of them don't mention it. Newer negative reviews echo most of the same complaints as older reviews. I know because we've had this exact conversation before. It ended with you telling me that no criticism is valid because A: it's subjective or B: it's early access, then you told me to stop posting.

I don't know about any steam or gog reviews, but holy fuck was this thread bitching and moaning about NTR when the first EA version came out.

 

[benisfug]

In defending GOG, you fail to refute the point that GOG lets anyone post reviews without any evidence that they have even played the game, let alone own a copy. How are the unverified reviews in fact legitimate, and not questionable at all?

View attachment 2918659

Edit: You yourself don't even accept the Chinese reviews, based on an argument that only some of those +3k reviews are legitimate, a claim you make without the same level of evidence because refuse to even point to how many of those +3k are legitimate reviews. Also, by the same merits you make for negative reviews you think are legitimate, you would need to concede there are also legitimate positive reviews as well in that review period that have been lost. There were over +1k positive reviews people made to counter the review bombs during that period as well that are not counted, but I don't see the same argument for any of the positive legitimate reviews that are buried in that haystack.

We've already gone over GOG not verifying reviews and you already pointed out how they score verified owners and randoms separately. I don't dismiss unverified GOG reviews because they mostly repeat the same sentiments from other backers, backers were never offered GOG keys so if they wanted a GOG owner flag they would have to buy it twice, and because GOG was never subject to any review bombing there's very little reason for anyone who hasn't played the game to leave a review there.

I don't deny that the Steam review bomb happened and I don't deny that people made a positive review bomb to counter it. Under normal circumstances I would be fine with a review bomb getting nuked off the score. But the context of the review bomb being triggered by FOW doing something that was well known to cause them after a six month update drought(among other things) triggered normal negative reviews is important. I always believed they did it on purpose and this exact argument we're having right now over review legitimacy is why. Nobody, not even the Steam moderators, is going to go through +3k reviews one by one trying to guess which ones are real or not. And even if I did it wouldn't make any difference because you could come up with a million other reasons for why they don't count.

 

[benisfug]

What's funny is you almost seem to be making an assumption that I will defend this game under any circumstance with that statement about me coming up with a million excuses to dismiss criticism, yet I've said myself that I regret buying this game, so clearly I am not here to defend the game from any and all criticism, I think there are plenty of faults that fall on the devs.

But then you end it with a conspiracy that FOW calculated and intentionally created backlash with the Chinese translation to cover up other legitimate criticism, thus you've fully entered a fantasy land. At this point you might as well argue the lack of evidence to support this conspiracy IS evidence that FOW has covered it up somehow.

They sat around for months in near silence then as soon as a group of customers started leaving visible negative feedback complaining about FOW's behavior and failure to meet their own promises FOW decided to do a funny known to incite Chinese rage after Chinese review bombs had become a very well known occurrence on the platform due to things like the drama with the game Devotion. But you're right, the timing could have just been a coincidence.