Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[lordfridge9]

I partially agree with this. When I check the game's description on steam or on SFOW's website now, I can't see where exactly it promises 100% harem-only no-cuck/no-beasts experience in the game. So I guess it doesn't. But for some reason, me, as many other players, expected that this game would be exactly harem-only when it was announced. So even if the advertisement didn't promise that there won't be NTR-ish nor bestiality stuff, it's still wasn't obvious enough what to expect, and that's why many players were "surprised" when they saw what they saw in the game.
For example, all I knew about the game was the info from trailers on SFOW's yt channel. From what I saw I expected a game in a space setting with a Deadpool-like mc building his own harem of hot chicks, that's all. But when I unlocked one of the "cards" in the pandora system and saw some alien creature fucks my Demi, I was like wtf? It was really unexpected, because it was unclear for me from the beginning that I can stumble on this kind of content in this game. I think that's why many other players got angry about this game as well.
Again, if the game trailers clearly say something like "look, there are bunch of sluts fuck everything they see, including this guy with panties on his face" I wouldn't have any problems with that. But those trailers gave me an impression that this is a harem game, and I mean harem-harem, no other shit.
So I'd say it's partially players' problem, because they expected something that game didn't promise. But it's also SFOW's problem too, because they certainly screwed up something in their marketing campaign.
Anyway, didn't want to start another holy war about NTR/bestiality stuff. I like the game and hope to see more content in future updates. Just saying that imo SFOW deserve the hate they got for Subverse. They definitely should have been more clear about what their game is, and by more clear I mean if the game contains "oh btw, your waifus get alien dicks in their asses" kind of content, be sure to fuckin tell the players about it loud and clear before they buy it.

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In a way, that content could be expected due to them being who they are, BUT, with the whole "no beasty/rape" thing, you'd then think they'd do the opposite, but reality is more in then middle

 

[Razrback16]

I partially agree with this. When I check the game's description on steam or on SFOW's website now, I can't see where exactly it promises 100% harem-only no-cuck/no-beasts experience in the game. So I guess it doesn't. But for some reason, me, as many other players, expected that this game would be exactly harem-only when it was announced. So even if the advertisement didn't promise that there won't be NTR-ish nor bestiality stuff, it's still wasn't obvious enough what to expect, and that's why many players were "surprised" when they saw what they saw in the game.
For example, all I knew about the game was the info from trailers on SFOW's yt channel. From what I saw I expected a game in a space setting with a Deadpool-like mc building his own harem of hot chicks, that's all. But when I unlocked one of the "cards" in the pandora system and saw some alien creature fucks my Demi, I was like wtf? It was really unexpected, because it was unclear for me from the beginning that I can stumble on this kind of content in this game. I think that's why many other players got angry about this game as well.
Again, if the game trailers clearly say something like "look, there are bunch of sluts fuck everything they see, including this guy with panties on his face" I wouldn't have any problems with that. But those trailers gave me an impression that this is a harem game, and I mean harem-harem, no other shit.
So I'd say it's partially players' problem, because they expected something that game didn't promise. But it's also SFOW's problem too, because they certainly screwed up something in their marketing campaign.
Anyway, didn't want to start another holy war about NTR/bestiality stuff. I like the game and hope to see more content in future updates. Just saying that imo SFOW deserve the hate they got for Subverse. They definitely should have been more clear about what their game is, and by more clear I mean if the game contains "oh btw, your waifus get alien dicks in their asses" kind of content, be sure to fuckin tell the players about it loud and clear before they buy it.

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Yep, like you, I had mostly just seen the trailer and some of the blog type updates along with (what we now know were) inaccurate game descriptions from some of the Steam mods where they were telling people it was for vanilla players, nothing would be forced in the story, etc. and didn't really start getting worried until a few people here on F95 started pointing out some of the conflicting marketing material with screenshots. That's when I actually said you know what, I better play it safe and not buy this game or I'll probably end up being pretty disappointed - so I send a big thank you to the other F95 members who brought the info - 'destroyerofassholes' I think was one of the main ones who always brought the facts to the thread, keeping things real, so thanks to you folks.

It just comes down to SFOW trying to play both sides of the board and now after-the-fact I can see why we could never get actual Studio Fow devs to come into the Steam forums and answer direct questions - they knew we wouldn't like their answers so they just kept quiet and marketed both sides. Like we've talked about in the past in this thread, this could have been done with a proper dialogue and choice option system, but they appear to have really wanted the xeno / Lily angle to be shoved down the player's throat and weren't willing to compromise, there, so it just is what it is.

 

[Thrway8113]

The studio still has time to modify that content before v1.0 - it's still in Early Access after all, but I don't have high hopes for that. I have money and I'd be willing to spend some of it buying this game, for full price even, but not unless they get rid of that beast canonization with Lily. Happy to play it for free otherwise.

 

[Nalsuloth]

Having read some of what people are saying. I have to strongly disagree with being upset over certain content being in the game. Dont get me wrong. I actually dont like it myself. But there is a difference, between not liking something, and demanding it be changed, just because you dont like it. I found I can just ignore the Pandora Cards that involve stuff like Mantics having a go at the girls. At least when it comes to Pandora itself. Although, you cant exactly get around the implications of these things happening, since it's directly tied to you having more troops, in the story.

 

[Razrback16]

Having read some of what people are saying. I have to strongly disagree with being upset over certain content being in the game. Dont get me wrong. I actually dont like it myself. But there is a difference, between not liking something, and demanding it be changed, just because you dont like it. I found I can just ignore the Pandora Cards that involve stuff like Mantics having a go at the girls. At least when it comes to Pandora itself. Although, you cant exactly get around the implications of these things happening, since it's directly tied to you having more troops, in the story.

No worries you're welcome to your opinion, I'm certainly not going to attack you for it. I will say though, that many folks, myself included, just want there to be options and aren't trying to make it so the whole game is vanilla with no fringe stuff. I'm personally fine with there being xeno / tentacle / etc. content in the game and I've mentioned this consistently as well - I fully understand that other people have their own kinks so I want there to be as much stuff in the game as possible for people, as long as it's avoidable from a narrative perspective.

The problem is when there are repeated dialogue / codex references to one or more of the waifus getting dicked down by monsters when the player isn't into that, then that's equally not okay from my perspective for the same reasons and is why I've personally held off on buying it to this point.

 

[Thrway8113]

Having read some of what people are saying. I have to strongly disagree with being upset over certain content being in the game. Dont get me wrong. I actually dont like it myself. But there is a difference, between not liking something, and demanding it be changed, just because you dont like it. I found I can just ignore the Pandora Cards that involve stuff like Mantics having a go at the girls. At least when it comes to Pandora itself. Although, you cant exactly get around the implications of these things happening, since it's directly tied to you having more troops, in the story.

For clarity, here, I'm not demanding anything (and maybe you didn't mean me, if not, disregard) - I'm simply saying I'm happy to play the game for free if it's going to shove fringe content down my throat via the story. Like the guy above me said, I also do not have a problem with the content being in the game for people. I have a problem with it not being optional for me. And because of that, I just won't buy the game and will enjoy the other aspects of the game that are actually good. This isn't something I actively get angry about and I'll continue to help here in the thread with torrents like I have in the past. Monster sex, etc - totally fine, just don't force it on me either via scenes or dialogue, that's all I am asking and I think that's a reasonable request - this was such a simple issue to handle, too. They could have made both sides happy with a proper option system for the various scenes by linking them to choices via dialogue or even an option at the beginning of the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love capitalism. Studio FOW has every right to make the exact game they want to make. They do not owe anyone shit. But on the flipside of that coin, I don't owe Studio FOW shit, either.

 

[Nalsuloth]

No worries you're welcome to your opinion, I'm certainly not going to attack you for it. I will say though, that many folks, myself included, just want there to be options and aren't trying to make it so the whole game is vanilla with no fringe stuff. I'm personally fine with there being xeno / tentacle / etc. content in the game and I've mentioned this consistently as well - I fully understand that other people have their own kinks so I want there to be as much stuff in the game as possible for people, as long as it's avoidable from a narrative perspective.

The problem is when there are repeated dialogue / codex references to one or more of the waifus getting dicked down by monsters when the player isn't into that, then that's equally not okay from my perspective for the same reasons and is why I've personally held off on buying it to this point.

For clarity, here, I'm not demanding anything (and maybe you didn't mean me, if not, disregard) - I'm simply saying I'm happy to play the game for free if it's going to shove fringe content down my throat via the story. Like the guy above me said, I also do not have a problem with the content being in the game for people. I have a problem with it not being optional for me. And because of that, I just won't buy the game and will enjoy the other aspects of the game that are actually good. This isn't something I actively get angry about and I'll continue to help here in the thread with torrents like I have in the past. Monster sex, etc - totally fine, just don't force it on me either via scenes or dialogue, that's all I am asking and I think that's a reasonable request - this was such a simple issue to handle, too. They could have made both sides happy with a proper option system for the various scenes by linking them to choices via dialogue or even an option at the beginning of the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love capitalism. Studio FOW has every right to make the exact game they want to make. They do not owe anyone shit. But on the flipside of that coin, I don't owe Studio FOW shit, either.

Honestly both of you specifically, are correct. You are absolutely within your rights to not like certain aspects of the game. And not purchasing it because you dont like it. I was talking more in general, about people who complain and hate on the game, and/or the developers. And either directly or by implication. Declare that since the game caters more to tastes different to their own, it is shit. Which is just dumb. There is nothing wrong with actual criticism. Or with wishing for the game to have certain features. I often find my self wishing X or Y was done differently in pretty much every game I play. That being said.

Studio FOW have a certain reputation, when it comes to the kind of content they produce. And just by looking at the Steam page, one can gleam some of their usual inclinations. Which in turn raises "red flags" about this content being more or less prominent.

Honestly, some of the people's reactions to the focus on these fetishes is like walking into some one else's monastery with your own holy book and then having a pikachu face, when everything you see is all wrong.

 

[Razrback16]

Honestly both of you specifically, are correct. You are absolutely within your rights to not like certain aspects of the game. And not purchasing it because you dont like it. I was talking more in general, about people who complain and hate on the game, and/or the developers. And either directly or by implication. Declare that since the game caters more to tastes different to their own, it is shit. Which is just dumb. There is nothing wrong with actual criticism. Or with wishing for the game to have certain features. I often find my self wishing X or Y was done differently in pretty much every game I play. That being said.

Studio FOW have a certain reputation, when it comes to the kind of content they produce. And just by looking at the Steam page, one can gleam some of their usual inclinations. Which in turn raises "red flags" about this content being more or less prominent.

Honestly, some of the people's reactions to the focus on these fetishes is like walking into some one else's monastery with your own holy book and then having a pikachu face, when everything you see is all wrong.

I think that's fair - it's like I mentioned a few posts back and Danlorn mentioned it as well - it was the mixed marketing that created the issue. They tried to market for both sides of the board and it's like okay...if the game is going to be more vanilla without SFOW's usual stuff then hey a bunch of people are going to be interested who normally wouldn't be, but when you market for both sides, it is a bit misleading if the intent is to make some of the fringe stuff canon that cannot be opted out of and the result is some people feeling like a bait and switch took place.

But ya, I hear ya, I am not into hating SFOW just because of what they do - it might not be for me in a general sense, but I'm all for people just making the product they want. If it's not hurting anyone then by all means, let people make the product and let people buy the product. There are certainly good things about Subverse for those of us who aren't into the canon monster stuff - excellent animation quality, excellent voice acting just to name a couple.

 

[Nalsuloth]

I think that's fair - it's like I mentioned a few posts back and Danlorn mentioned it as well - it was the mixed marketing that created the issue. They tried to market for both sides of the board and it's like okay...if the game is going to be more vanilla without SFOW's usual stuff then hey a bunch of people are going to be interested who normally wouldn't be, but when you market for both sides, it is a bit misleading if the intent is to make some of the fringe stuff canon that cannot be opted out of and the result is some people feeling like a bait and switch took place.

But ya, I hear ya, I am not into hating SFOW just because of what they do - it might not be for me in a general sense, but I'm all for people just making the product they want. If it's not hurting anyone then by all means, let people make the product and let people buy the product. There are certainly good things about Subverse for those of us who aren't into the canon monster stuff - excellent animation quality, excellent voice acting just to name a couple.

I have to agree with you there as well. Knowing what I know about FOW, with the way the game was marketed. I had a slim hope it might be avoidable. But due to the said knowledge, I was hardly surprised with how things ended up being.

Personally I wish to support them more for the quality of their work. And going out of their way to make a relatively high profile Adult game. That is an ACTUAL bloody game. Dont get me wrong F95 is chock full of games that have actual game-play ontop of the pron. But bar a handful of exceptions, there arent any that are truly meaty in that department. And while Subverse does not equate to say Mass Effect or The Witcher 3 with full sex scenes, it is a step in the right direction. And I hope that it's existence and success will help pave way for such experiences in the future.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

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I see the usual cycle of posts started again. So just to reiterate, not an NTR game:

And the Pandora scenes with the mantics are there for to unlock at your own discretion. You don't have to see shit you don't wan to. There's even filters for the scene selection, so you don't even have to see the preview square.

 

[OdinValgallovih]

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I see the usual cycle of posts started again. So just to reiterate, not an NTR game: View attachment 1430062

And the Pandora scenes with the mantics are there for to unlock at your own discretion. You don't have to see shit you don't wan to. There's even filters for the scene selection, so you don't even have to see the preview square.

I've been waiting for you, white knight

 

[Razrback16]

I have to agree with you there as well. Knowing what I know about FOW, with the way the game was marketed. I had a slim hope it might be avoidable. But due to the said knowledge, I was hardly surprised with how things ended up being.

Personally I wish to support them more for the quality of their work. And going out of their way to make a relatively high profile Adult game. That is an ACTUAL bloody game. Dont get me wrong F95 is chock full of games that have actual game-play ontop of the pron. But bar a handful of exceptions, there arent any that are truly meaty in that department. And while Subverse does not equate to say Mass Effect or The Witcher 3 with full sex scenes, it is a step in the right direction. And I hope that it's existence and success will help pave way for such experiences in the future.

Yep at this point I'd buy the game for about $10 as a sign of good-will for the animators and voice actors for the reasons you're talking about - just the quality of those items. And if they ever make the xeno narrative stuff with Lily optional regarding the Codex and dialogues, I'd buy it for full price.

 

[Thrway8113]

I've been waiting for you, white knight

Ah yes, you can always count on the same ppl in this thread to gaslight on a reliable and consistent basis. It's literally comical at this point. The sidekick will be along shortly as well I am sure.

People simply want this stuff optional and not just the scenes. It doesn't matter whether the scenes are optional or not when it's right in the player's face in dialogue and in the game Codex. And you know, it's fine that some people like the game as it is, we all have different opinions, but don't gaslight people, at least be honest about what's being discussed. When you're not, you get a reputation as a shill and people don't trust what you have to say.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Well I guess after this discussion's been repeat so many times people have come to terms with their opinions on it. I disagree with some bits of what everyone's saying though.

Something like how StudioFOW didn't market their game or how vanilla fans were bamboozled or whatever. I don't like the sexual content studioFOW produces like 99% of the time. I have no idea how you were confused. You weren't tricked or anything. They were pretty direct about everything. You could research who they were before investing money, and see their past works. While the kickstarter was still running they showed mantic designs.

Honestly? If that stuff's inclusion surprised you, you're a bad consumer. There's no getting around that.

Ah yes, you can always count on the same ppl in this thread to gaslight on a reliable and consistent basis. It's literally comical at this point. The sidekick will be along shortly as well I am sure.

People simply want this stuff optional and not just the scenes. It doesn't matter whether the scenes are optional or not when it's right in the player's face in dialogue and in the game Codex. And you know, it's fine that some people like the game as it is, we all have different opinions, but don't gaslight people, at least be honest about what's being discussed. When you're not, you get a reputation as a shill and people don't trust what you have to say.

But that's her character tho?
She's a sexually promiscuous scientist girl who wants to fuck alien cocks.
That's literally her whole premise. The whole reason she's with you and not with some random corporation. Do you want Lily to just not be Lily anymore? If your answer is yes, then what were you expecting coming into this? No like seriously, while the kickstarter was running this information was out there for everyone to see.

Is this that... out of sight out of mind thing? All the scenes in Pandora happen. You just choose which to unlock based on your tastes.

Again, none of this is new. It's Day 1 info.

StudioFOW said from the beginning they had every intention of catering to their more hardcore rape, gangbang, girl's crying from too much pain/pleasure fans, while also keeping most of the content vanilla.

Problem is... vanilla isn't a scene XD. Vanilla isn't missionary. Vanilla is the entire package. It doesn't matter if it's pure love missionary under the blankets in one scene if in another the girl gets railed by alien dong and it's all canon.

Considering the sexual content that can be unlocked in the game and the general promiscuity of the love interests(ah scratch that) female crewmates, this game won't be tagged vanilla at the end of the day.
__
Me personally, I never thought I'd sexually enjoy this game since it's coming from StudioFOW, and I'm confident in that. Now if it was Dezmall or another SFM animator I enjoyed leading the project, I'd be disappointed in the content in the game.

I am however disappointed about the game from a design standpoint and the general decisions they made.

Tired of people pretending they were getting another game or that they were tricked. If you're gonna criticize the game I think it makes sense to criticize on elements that are more subjective.

 

[Thrway8113]

But that's her character tho?
She's a sexually promiscuous scientist girl who wants to fuck alien cocks.
That's literally her whole premise. The whole reason she's with you and not with some random corporation. Do you want Lily to just not be Lily anymore? If your answer is yes, then what were you expecting coming into this? No like seriously, while the kickstarter was running this information was out there for everyone to see.

Is this that... out of sight out of mind thing? All the scenes in Pandora happen. You just choose which to unlock based on your tastes.

Again, none of this is new. It's Day 1 info.

StudioFOW said from the beginning they had every intention of catering to their more hardcore rape, gangbang, girl's crying from too much pain/pleasure fans, while also keeping most of the content vanilla.

Problem is... vanilla isn't a scene XD. Vanilla isn't missionary. Vanilla is the entire package. It doesn't matter if it's pure love missionary under the blankets in one scene if in another the girl gets railed by alien dong and it's all canon.

Considering the sexual content that can be unlocked in the game and the general promiscuity of the love interests(ah scratch that) female crewmates, this game won't be tagged vanilla at the end of the day.
__
Me personally, I never thought I'd sexually enjoy this game since it's coming from StudioFOW, and I'm confident in that. Now if it was Dezmall or another SFM animator I enjoyed leading the project, I'd be disappointed in the content in the game.

I am however disappointed about the game from a design standpoint and the general decisions they made.

Tired of people pretending they were getting another game or that they were tricked. If you're gonna criticize the game I think it makes sense to criticize on elements that are more subjective.

For the marketing, the issue is that when this game was being originally put up on Steam, people asked about some of the content on the store page that pointed toward cuck / NTR type material (there was a slide referencing walking by the lab and hearing Lily getting fucked by monsters and not being able to do anything about it) as there was a ton of pushback about this as people were interested in the game, but they didn't want that type of thing in it, and apparently there was enough backlash that they wanted to make some changes. The dev then removed that slide and started telling people they were aiming for a more vanilla audience - moderators were even running around telling people that there would be nothing forced in the story regarding the monsters, etc. In essence, there was a good bit of mixed messaging with this game which is what has driven this conversation. I personally believe they have just done their best to hide it from advertisement and hope that people will get past the refund window before they see it or maybe hope they like enough of the game to keep it even with that stuff in there.

And there's certainly good stuff in the game like the graphics, and animation quality, I give them top marks there, so it's not like the whole thing is bad. And maybe if I'd been one who came in early during the kickstarter period I would have seen more of that early marketing material that indicated it would be this stuff and I would have just moved along. I would bet a number of people would be in that boat, but I was one who saw it on Steam and started following it from there.

I think at this point though, like I've said previously, they are probably not going to change it. They could, but they clearly want that stuff in there, and so again, like some others have said in this thread, I'm glad so many ppl posted good information here and because of F95's nature we're able to verify for ourselves (previous post screenshots as evidence) before finding out unpleasantly.

As far as the definition of "vanilla" - as you noted, it's an arbitrary term in this context, but I personally just think of it as more normal sex between two humans, and not "beastiality" / "tentacles" or more fringe content. And you bring up a good point when you corrected yourself about the labeling of the girls - they're not even really waifus. It's kinda funny as I read through some of the dev logs, etc. They design it so that these girls are super sluts but then try to make it into romance like there are relationships which just further supports my feelings on this game - they couldn't decide what they wanted so they just tried to shove literally everything into the game, which has resulted in some conflicts. Just brings me back again to what I consider to be the core negative of the game - they tried to play every side of it and this topic of conversation that we keep seeing pop up is the byproduct of that.

 

[TheUnsaid]

people asked about some of the content on the store page that pointed toward cuck / NTR type material (there was a slide referencing walking by the lab and hearing Lily getting fucked by monsters and not being able to do anything about it) as there was a ton of pushback about this as people were interested in the game, but they didn't want that type of thing in it, and apparently there was enough backlash that they wanted to make some changes. The dev then removed that slide and started telling people they were aiming for a more vanilla audience - moderators were even running around telling people that there would be nothing forced in the story regarding the monsters, etc. In essence, there was a good bit of mixed messaging with this game which is what has driven this conversation. I personally believe they have just done their best to hide it from advertisement and hope that people will get past the refund window before they see it or maybe hope they like enough of the game to keep it even with that stuff in there.

You see, considering this is the first ever million dollar h-game to ever be attempted, I was following this game since its inception.

I think you're wrong on this history.

People saw what StudioFOW normally did, and when the Subverse hentai mangas came out and were extreme mantic,futa, gangbang stuff, people started getting worried that content would be in the game. FOW came out and said that manga content wouldn't be representative of the content they'd see in the game.

This is objectively true. The mantic, gangbang, rape scenarios are not the primary content in the game. One-on-one stuff with the captain technically is the primary content in the game.

The vanilla audience never asked, "Can you make the game only vanilla." and FOW never said, "This game will only be vanilla." I am of the opinion that if you're going to attempt at romance for a game like this, then having the female crewmembers fuck other things instantly disqualifies the game from being considered vanilla.

I personally think those are weird expectations on your part.
You don't have to be there since Day1 to know what kind of character Lily is. That she fucks monsters on her spare time.

Just go to the game's site and check the character bios. Done. Now you know. You can't surprise pikachu face when it's mentioned in the game since it's part of her character.
They didn't hide anything.
You just didn't even look at the thing.

And maybe if I'd been one who came in early during the kickstarter period I would have seen more of that early marketing material that indicated it would be this stuff and I would have just moved along.

It's not about what they said early on vs what they said later on. All of the marketing was available to you at all times.

They design it so that these girls are super sluts but then try to make it into romance like there are relationships which just further supports my feelings on this game - they couldn't decide what they wanted so they just tried to shove literally everything into the game

Now that's something I fully agree with.

If you go to the Kickstarter post for when romancing the crew members were added, you can see how the project lead had to be convinced to add it in. I personally think he should've stuck to his guns, because he knew that tonally this wasn't the type of game where it made sense to "date" these girls.

They'll put out like easy for monsters but the MC has to work by talking them up, buying presents, and asking them on dates to get anything? One of the future party members is gonna be a pornstar...

Who would even want to date them and see them romantically? The game hasn't set up a relationship with the girls that's based on emotions and mutual care. The protagonist is literally a joke. It makes no sense for them to even try doing this.

I think they messed up with this in particular and the project lead should've been more firm in his viewpoint regarding this aspect of the game. But vanilla fans wanted it "for some reason." Like... they weren't paying attention at all to the game they wanted that to be included in.

___

Since StudioFOW are a general maledom creative, the erotic integration they could've implemented based on characters could've been unique and different if they were just more confident in their sexual tastes.
I prefer femdom but I could think of ways the game could've had sexual content integration for people who have FOW's sexual tastes. Probably not the best ideas since it's not where I am sexually though.

Spoiler: Male Dominant Sexual Integration

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But... because they are aware that people don't like everything they made it so adult content is unlocked based on your tastes so all of it is canon while none of it is. The story can't change because of adult elements that happen, and adult elements can't naturally happen over the course of the story.

A lot of adult games aren't scared about the adult content in their game. They're usually unavoidable and integrated in the game in a way that reflects the sexual tastes of the creators.
- Think Alicesoft games, Xuse games, Eushully games, Cursed Blacksmith, MGERPG, my game and more.

...

But yeah, I'm really tired of fans saying they were tricked or bamboozled or complain about the marketing. It's hard to even have criticisms of the game from a design standpoint when every time you try, someone comes out and says something along the lines of, "this isn't the game I was expecting."

 

[Deleted member 324588]

White knight = posting words straight from the developers staff. ok.

And ya'll twisting NTR/cuck's meaning to fit your personal definitions isn't gaslighting at all?

And in regards to the ladies being slutty but also having meaningful relationships with the Captain...yeah they can do both? Just cause you can't imagine it, doesn't mean they can't write it.

Keep in mind the game takes place in a universe where the Imperium promotes chastity and abstinence, enforcing their will on an entire galaxy. Their sexual promiscuity is basically a giant middle finger to that empire.

 

[Thrway8113]

You see, considering this is the first ever million dollar h-game to ever be attempted, I was following this game since its inception.

I think you're wrong on this history.

People saw what StudioFOW normally did, and when the Subverse hentai mangas came out and were extreme mantic,futa, gangbang stuff, people started getting worried that content would be in the game. FOW came out and said that manga content wouldn't be representative of the content they'd see in the game.

This is objectively true. The mantic, gangbang, rape scenarios are not the primary content in the game. One-on-one stuff with the captain technically is the primary content in the game.

With regard to the Kickstarter, I never really followed that, so I can't really comment on the marketing there. I suspect it was aimed more at their traditional audience at the time and the reason is I have seen the Steam page literally change from initial listing to now and the changes were what gave people like myself some hope - it went from a game that seemed to have clear cuckold / NTR content involved to a game that literal Studio FOW moderators were telling us on the Steam messageboards was not going to have that stuff in the story.

The vanilla audience never asked, "Can you make the game only vanilla." and FOW never said, "This game will only be vanilla." I am of the opinion that if you're going to attempt at romance for a game like this, then having the female crewmembers fuck other things instantly disqualifies the game from being considered vanilla.

I personally think those are weird expectations on your part.
You don't have to be there since Day1 to know what kind of character Lily is. That she fucks monsters on her spare time.

Just go to the game's site and check the character bios. Done. Now you know. You can't surprise pikachu face when it's mentioned in the game since it's part of her character.
They didn't hide anything.
You just didn't even look at the thing.


It's not about what they said early on vs what they said later on. All of the marketing was available to you at all times.

No. The disconnect here is as I have described - when you have actual moderators telling the public that it's not included and then it turns out to be included, that creates some mixed signals. Now, having said that, I totally agree with what you're saying on the game's bio pages - that being there in direct contrast to what moderators were telling people on Steam is what created some of the mixups and led to me bowing out of purchasing the game. I had this sucker wishlisted for a while, but began getting concerned when noticing it was only moderators stating this stuff and not actual devs, as well as seeing some threads getting zapped on Steam when people were aggressively requesting feedback from the Studio FOW developer team and couldn't get a peep. It all, particularly with a good number of threads on the topic getting deleted just gave the impression that they didn't want this stuff popping up too much.

So while I think the points you're making have merit, for sure, there's also conflicting information that was being given by moderation at least on Steam - I never used their Discord, so it's possible it was there as well.

Now that's something I fully agree with.

If you go to the Kickstarter post for when romancing the crew members were added, you can see how the project lead had to be convinced to add it in. I personally think he should've stuck to his guns, because he knew that tonally this wasn't the type of game where it made sense to "date" these girls.

They'll put out like easy for monsters but the MC has to work by talking them up, buying presents, and asking them on dates to get anything? One of the future party members is gonna be a pornstar...

Who would even want to date them and see them romantically? The game hasn't set up a relationship with the girls that's based on emotions and mutual care. The protagonist is literally a joke. It makes no sense for them to even try doing this.

I think they messed up with this in particular and the project lead should've been more firm in his viewpoint regarding this aspect of the game.

Agree 100% on you with this - I have made the case in older posts that they should have just gone full throttle on Cuck / NTR / Beast content to make that group of people completely happy and not compromised a bit because the route they took just puts the different sides into conflict.

You might have been the poster a while back (months, probably right after the original launch in March) who put a nice post together about how they could have put an option system into the game and I think you had some pretty solid details in that post (if it was you I'm thinking of, disregard if not) that I think would have solved a lot of the issues.

Since StudioFOW are a general maledom creative, the erotic integration they could've implemented based on characters could've been unique and different if they were just more confident in their sexual tastes.
I prefer femdom but I could think of ways the game could've had sexual content integration for people who have FOW's sexual tastes.

Spoiler: Male Dominant Sexual Integration

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But... because they are aware that people don't like everything they made it so adult content is unlocked based on your tastes so all of it is canon while none of it is. The story can't change because of adult elements that happen, and adult elements can't naturally happen over the course of the story.

A lot of adult games aren't scared about the adult content in their game. They're usually unavoidable and integrated in the game in a way that reflects the sexual tastes of the creators.
- Think Alicesoft games, Xuse games, Eushully games, Cursed Blacksmith, MGERPG, my game and more.

Ya I'm not into the stuff you described there at all in the spoiler section, but the part I like about how you layed it out is that it provides more context for the scenes to actually make sense, and have proper buildup - this has been a common complaint about the game since launch, that the scenes lack context and proper flow.

But yeah, I'm really tired of fans saying they were tricked or bamboozled or complain about the marketing. It's hard to even have criticisms of the game from a design standpoint when every time you try, someone comes out and says something along the lines of, "this isn't the game I was expecting."

Well, like I've described here, I do think some of your points have merit about the game's main page (the actual game website) not being the issue, but I feel it's more the inconsistent messaging some people saw from moderation on Steam's messageboards and possibly in other places on the web and because of that, there will continue to be commentary from people who, like some of us, only saw info on Steam and its messageboards, or even just want to ask people who've played the game to confirm certain things about the content - I've certainly seen a few of those ppl here, too.

And I think that's why boards like this one are good - it's important, regardless of how we personally feel about the game and where it's headed, that we can at least inform folks of what's actually in the game, no matter what they were expecting so they can make decisions with solid information.

 

[Razrback16]

I have seen the Steam page literally change from initial listing to now and the changes were what gave people like myself some hope - it went from a game that seemed to have clear cuckold / NTR content involved to a game that literal Studio FOW moderators were telling us on the Steam messageboards was not going to have that stuff in the story.

Not trying to get into the discussion between you two, only wanted to single this bit out to say that I have also seen this and my feelings were pretty similar on the game. I had actually seen the Kickstarter page, but obviously never backed.

My sentiments with the game were basically a little concerned initially because of the Kickstarter pages, but then after chatting with the people on the Steam boards, as I was a frequent visitor there at the time when the game got listed, I felt like my concerns were eased from what the moderation people were saying, that SFOW had basically changed some plans with the game because of all the negative responses from people regarding the monster content and were trying to make it so people who weren't into that wouldn't be disappointed with having that content forced into the story for them.

But then later on in the Subverse thread we had going on F95, some other members started posting what they were hearing along with all the conflicting stuff, and it seemed that whenever we would try to get a straight answer from SFOW's staffers on Steam, no one would respond and sometimes threads were either locked or deleted, I decided then there was no way I would buy the game until I confirmed first-hand the stuff wasn't there.

Unfortunately we all know where it ended up. I had just thought an option system would be implemented to eliminate the issue, but I was wrong. Just glad I didn't buy the game.

 

[TheUnsaid]

it went from a game that seemed to have clear cuckold / NTR content involved to a game that literal Studio FOW moderators were telling us on the Steam messageboards was not going to have that stuff in the story.

Not trying to get into the discussion between you two, only wanted to single this bit out to say that I have also seen this and my feelings were pretty similar on the game.

Not to sound too pedantic but it's technically not NTR.
The girls aren't getting stolen away by the monsters. They're just sluts.

For it to be NTR, first, there has to be romance between the girls and the protagonist which... lol. Look at the MC's design. Second, the girls need to go to the cuck's side and emotionally destroy the protagonist.

In Subverse the girls sleep around, but one of the people they sleep around with is the protagonist. They aren't getting stolen away, and the MC can't get emotionally destroyed by anything cause he's braindead.

Maybe constantly calling it NTR was the community's problem? What you want are exclusive heroines. Girls that only sleep with the MC.

You might have been the poster a while back (months, probably right after the original launch in March) who put a nice post together about how they could have put an option system into the game and I think you had some pretty solid details in that post (if it was you I'm thinking of, disregard if not) that I think would have solved a lot of the issues.

It was someone else, but I remember that because I was in that conversation.
Personally, I don't think it's possible to have an option system.

Think about it. The fact that Lily fucks monsters is a core part of her character. You literally can't take it out and still keep her as Lily. You can choose to not fuck Lily though... but I mean... it's an adult game and most of the female crew aren't exactly heroine material. Not like the MC is designed to deserve one anyway.

The poster we're talking about was trying to find ways to integrate the sexual content in the game naturally while also giving due to people's tastes. "If you interact with Killi romantically she won't get fucked by Mantics, therefore the adult scenes can actually happen naturally over the course of the game based on player behavior" was basically the core of that post.

Problem is, this reduces the scene count people would experience playing the game, and even the maledom, gangbang rapefiend guys would have to act a certain way to get those mantic scenarios which isn't fair to them either. What if they want to act romantic and nice to Killi but still want to see the mantic scenes?

Perfect solution in my opinion would be if they just weren't cowards and stuck to their sexual tastes, including the sexual elements in interesting and unique ways based on their sexual tastes, and drawing a firm line in their community for people who like certain things.

Femdom creators do this all the time.