VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[PaxHadrian17]

First of all: I dont mean to insult Ocean or his loyalists who use this thread every day. This is meant to be constructive criticism and an unbiased opinion .

I know that Mr. PaxHadrian17 is gonna be a detective and see my profile and will "call me out on my BS" if he can, so Im gonna tell you exactly what you are gonna find there: 1 post here a few days ago memeing about the 32 chapters (who didnt??), 1 post on WIAB, and since I came back after some time off F95 I have been mostly posting/following just 1 game. If you do more investigating you will also find out that I kissed Oceans ass so much before that my lips almost came off, so yeah ...

-My main problem with this game and Ocean is the fact that after everything he has done since I made those posts, I simply cant trust him anymore ... Too many reworks usually do that to any project: Im not saying the rework was necessarily "bad", but it makes you not trust anything that comes out since it can all be changed
-Then you have the all "hardware/software situation": it feels like, at least to someone like me that doesnt follow the discord, that hes more worried about getting the "perfect equipment" than making both games... Whats gonna happen when the RTX 5090 comes out next year? Another upgrade and we wait longer?

Spoiler: Just for PaxHadrian17 or anyone who wants to be an FBI agent

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So yeah, everything I mentioned makes blindly trusting Ocean (like it seems a lot of people do here) really difficult for me to understand... A dev that is clearly talented but too much in his/her own head unfortunately, the only sample we have for his projects is WIAB that was essentially abandoned (sorry, "redone" COPIUM) and that really thinks that making 2 games is the best way: Half content to both games instead of double for one game

I really wish him/her luck because I like this game and love WIAB, but NO WAY does this dev deserve anything close to blind trust unless he can actually keep a schedule and shows us hes really capable of doing this impossible task

PS: I realize that many people are trolls/stupid and that the loyalists need to "clap back" sometimes, but everyone just needs to learn how to ignore those people instead of putting fuel in the fire . Fortuna ღ here, a post without memes, waiting times and from someone who has kissed Ocean ass as much as I also can be objective about kicking it . Cheers!

Fortuna ღ did a great job responding to the post that was directed at her.

As for me - I am hardly a detective. The person you are commenting on just appeared out of nowhere and started spewing garbage - not facts. I chose to see who this was, and it looked like an alt account to me - so I called him out on it.

I don't know who you are, and your posting history is not something I would bother checking. FYI - I specifically chose Not to hide my posting history. If someone wants to check up on me and call me out for being supportive of the communities I participate in, or generally supportive of devs who create AVNs I enjoy - have at it!

You mentioned trust.

That is not something I can help you with - you don't trust Ocean and that is a personal choice that is not debatable.

I trust Ocean, based on the work he is doing and the communications I have had with him.

So - on Trust - we have to agree to disagree.

He's said that he is developing SG and WIAB concurrently to help combat burnout, so I support this approach.

I would not presume to tell Any creator how to manage burnout - each of us uses different methods (my own have varying levels of success) and I trust each creator to do what works best for them.

We have lost Far too many good/great creators on F95, and burnout is one of the major contributors to the loss of many of these creators.

Ocean is Not a perfect creator nor is SG the perfect AVN.

He is someone who is a master of his craft (IMO) and he continues to push himself to add software tools, hardware, and English writing skills to his development toolbox - all as part of getting better at creating SG and WIAB.

He also works to team with others where he can/it supports his needs, and he has enjoyed some success here (trouble with the in-game phone being the one he talked about as not working out - details already discussed in prior posts).

I admire that level of dedication and I'm happy to be one of his supporters on SS.

I'm glad that Ocean has an ambitious story to tell, including complex animations and music with animations literally built around them.

I have a Summers Gone music playlist courtesy of Ocean and I'm looking forward to new music when he gets to introduce us to it.

Ocean is by far the most ambitious of the creators I support with my $.

I'd be happy supporting him for many years to come based on the story he's already told and the story that I believe he will tell in the future.

Finally - thank you for engaging in a bit of a discussion, versus a rant (agreeing to disagree is fine - we are not a Hive, we are humans) -- I'm always up for a discussion!

Cheers!

 

[m111m123]

I responded to one of your earlier posts and disagreed with some of what you said but you offered no counter arguments on Why what you said was actually valid.

you accuse me of throwing shit, but now you yourself are offering to throw this shit that the haters throw ..... where is the logic?
If you really want me to throw a couple of hateful revelations here, then catch it.
Ocean deceives his fans and constantly delays the release of new chapters. Haters believe that he does this to get money from patrons and do nothing, and in the logs he writes that he is busy developing the game. By the way, there is evidence for this in logs 7 and 10. Enough or throw more?

 

[m111m123]

That the work he did could have been done much faster. It's all blatant lies and crap out of their arses.

I also read this statement, only it has evidence, unlike your words. I also tried to disprove it, but in the end I had to believe in it.

 

[BobTheDuck]

you accuse me of throwing shit, but now you yourself are offering to throw this shit that the haters throw ..... where is the logic?
If you really want me to throw a couple of hateful revelations here, then catch it.
Ocean deceives his fans and constantly delays the release of new chapters. Haters believe that he does this to get money from patrons and do nothing, and in the logs he writes that he is busy developing the game. By the way, there is evidence for this in logs 7 and 10. Enough or throw more?

My own experiences tell me that delays through obsessive perfectionism are common in creative fields.

That you don't believe there is justification for the length of development and the level of quality control is not proof of deceit. You just dislike Ocean's work ethic and development process.

Both you and Ocean are strangers on the internet to me. You have zero investment in SG, Ocean is set to gain from continuing development and has 100% investment in its success. Ocean gains from keeping actual genuine excitement in the game(s). You're simply making bold statements from an armchair. So who will I believe?

Maybe you're a disillusioned patron, whell fair enough, I get that money is tight for people. The whole point of patronage is to help people aspire to creative endeavours. It is not a business transaction on the patron's terms in that sense. It is risk and trust. You can revoke your trust at any point, but that says nothing about the quality or timeframe of the creativity, more likely that you have other things to spend your income on. I mean, it is a business deal, but it is process driven rather than outcome driven. The process is supported rather than the outcome guaranteed.

I would rather wait for an in depth story than a quick bit of eye candy. There's enough fast food/convenience in modern culture that I like the idea of creators who follow their own vision.

I currently have zero investment myself and am waiting to purchase on steam, because I don't have the money to support the process, but I can support the outcome.

 

[m111m123]

That you don't believe there is justification for the length of development and the level of quality control is not proof of deceit. You just dislike Ocean's work ethic and development process.

What does faith have to do with it, I indicated where the evidence for this is located or have you not read up to this point? When the "hater" created this topic and everyone attacked him, he asked if you were smart enough to understand what the deception was? I found a hoax and now I'm wondering if you can find it. I don’t understand why these people are called haters, they are more like private detectives.
ps If you are interested in my finances, then I always first of all listen to what the haters say because among their words there is often truth, but fanatics always protect their idols. I analyze all the information and then decide whether to donate or not.

 

[BobTheDuck]

What does faith have to do with it, I indicated where the evidence for this is located or have you not read up to this point? When the "hater" created this topic and everyone attacked him, he asked if you were smart enough to understand what the deception was? I found a hoax and now I'm wondering if you can find it. I don’t understand why these people are called haters, they are more like private detectives.

Nah, couldn't find it on a casual scroll, only more and more inferences from people based on speculation and a lack of understanding about technology. I'm not that invested in conspiracy theories of how Ocean has a secret master plan to blueball the entire world until infinity by spending money on render farms.

Simple math: Ocean does a steam release and he gets my money at that point, for the product delivered. Until then, I just keep my eye on the thread for updates. All the reverse psychology/conjecture posturing is quite tiring; feels too much like boring work with no reward or satisfaction. Conspiracy theories about VN's almost seems to be the ultimate blueballin'

 

[yossa999]

A few months ago SG patrons doubled his WIAB patrons. Now he's got 1367 SG patrons and 429 WIAB patrons.

He should have realized what he should do by now.

I really hope he finds a way to tie the two stories together more closely. I would really like to see a young, carefree and a bit adventurous Bambi in the WIAB update, traveling with her friends on vacation, and then a strict, elegant and beautiful Amber in the next SG update, still retaining a piece of her youthful spirit. Showing that she still has something of Bambi in her. That she had not lost touch with the friends of her young days. And she and Dani still know how to party wild all night long, making Claire bite her lip in envy. The same applies to other characters such as Katie Zane, Scarlett, Holgerssons. I believe that this will show people both games as two parts of one big story, and an update for any of two games would feel as a continuation of this big story.

 

[Ottoeight]

I really hope he finds a way to tie the two stories together more closely. I would really like to see a young, carefree and a bit adventurous Bambi in the WIAB update, traveling with her friends on vacation, and then a strict, elegant and beautiful Amber in the next SG update, still retaining a piece of her youthful spirit. Showing that she still has something of Bambi in her. That she had not lost touch with the friends of her young days. And she and Dani still know how to party wild all night long, making Claire bite her lip in envy. The same applies to other characters such as Katie Zane, Scarlett, Holgerssons. I believe that this will show people both games as two parts of one big story, and an update for any of two games would feel as a continuation of this big story.

Sure, bro. You really hope he finds a way to tie the two stories together more closely, me I really hope I find a way to tie with Scarlett Johansson. Almost the same chance.

My honest feeling is that if he's honest with himself and his patrons he should drop WIAB after he releases its 3rd chapter.

 

[m111m123]

Nah, couldn't find it on a casual scroll, only more and more inferences from people based on speculation and a lack of understanding about technology. I'm not that invested in conspiracy theories of how Ocean has a secret master plan to blueball the entire world until infinity by spending money on render farms.

I'm not surprised you couldn't find it. Ocean wrote that he made 1350 renders and 310 are waiting for a render. After 1.5 months, he writes that he made 1700 renders. It turns out that he rendered the remaining 310 in a day and the remaining month and a half he did nothing.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

Sure, bro. You really hope he finds a way to tie the two stories together more closely, me I really hope I find a way to tie with Scarlett Johansson. Almost the same chance.

My honest feeling is that if he's honest with himself and his patrons he should drop WIAB after he releases its 3rd chapter.

you take that back. at least in WIAB I don't have to wait 2 years for renders of my favorite character

 

[yossa999]

Sure, bro. You really hope he finds a way to tie the two stories together more closely, me I really hope I find a way to tie with Scarlett Johansson. Almost the same chance.

So you're close to Scarlett Johansson? That's cool, tell me moar!

My honest feeling is that if he's honest with himself and his patrons he should drop WIAB after he releases its 3rd chapter.

You throw away other people's work too easily, I must say
Every year a fresh wave of newcomers come here and find these two wonderful games. These people don't carry the baggage of years of reading the same endless toxic discussions from this thread, and haven't developed unrealistic hopes yet and aren't frustrating about this. Some of them are sure to replace those who feel they got nothing for their money (figure of speech, I can hardly believe most of them ever supported these games).
So yeah, I think Ocean will be fine with two games being developed at the same time. As long as he works at his own pace, releases updates, constantly improves his skills, his hardware, and keeps his audience informed about development progress, he's doing well.
And, to be completely honest, did you ever believe that this 30-chapter-wide-plan would be a matter of a couple of years or so? I dunno, I've been here since 2020 and have followed the development of enough good games to be absolutely sure that this is more of a manifesto for the future, a distant goal towards which the game is heading, rather than a near milestone.

 

[John Matrix]

A few months ago SG patrons doubled his WIAB patrons. Now he's got 1367 SG patrons and 429 WIAB patrons.

He should have realized what he should do by now.

Both

 

[BobTheDuck]

I'm not surprised you couldn't find it. Ocean wrote that he made 1350 renders and 310 are waiting for a render. After 1.5 months, he writes that he made 1700 renders. It turns out that he rendered the remaining 310 in a day and the remaining month and a half he did nothing.

Nah, no conspiracy. Animations also take time. He has been working on office things getting music licensed, because that's a thing, emails back and forth, which is boring and not very exciting to say "hey I spent time emailing people about music". And then post work, sticking the renders to the text, making sure the renders flow with the text, transitions.

Renders aren't the only thing, just one of the more time consuming. Other than animations. The animation render count almost certainly refers to static renders. It's very common for there to be a list of static renders and then animations, and how many static frames make up a second of animation? 60 these days I think for high res.

 

[scooman]

It's really hard to comment this and not sound offensive. Excuse me, but don't you think that someone who is relaxed and does not bother would not write a post and announce to others about his departure? I can hardly imagine a person who is happy and relaxed, lazily scrolling through the forums and suddenly he/she is like this: "Damn! I have to write a post about Summer's Gone being developed too slow, I must inform everyone that I won't be playing it!" Sorry again, but whatever you've meant, your post leaves such an impression.

About self-proclaimed local project managers and their ETAs. You know, when I read a thread of a more or less interesting and worthwhile game, I always hear that mournful howl from the swamps, which sounds louder than anything else. Let me show excerpts from some of the threads I follow. There is a lot more of similar bullshit, but finding and inserting it here is boring as fuck.

Spoiler: Warning! Whine overload.

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Spoiler: Here is my favorite

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If that kind of dull whining keeps you from enjoying great games even if they're not finished, even if they've been in development for a long time, well, that's your decision and your choice. You are free to play whatever you like. I just want to note that if the Ocean fails to realize all his plans, then even what he has already done is quite enough for the completed first season of a large VN project with an extremely high level of graphics, plot and characters development.

By the way, judging by your profile picture and signature, you're no stranger to BaDIK There was a recent discussion in the main thread about how long it would take to finish the game. It seems like the most of the people agreed that it would take another six or seven years? What was the final verdict of the thread? You won't play until the final version comes out, right?

Thank you in advance for reading my completely relaxed and totally not concerned ramblings.

Great that you put so much effort in your, for sure, very intelligent analystic thoughts about me, my post and whatever else you wrote. Looks like you really did not understand very well what i meant when you react like this. To much readimg between the lines i think.

But thats ok. and i am sorry to tell you that i stopped reading somewhere by line 3 maybe 4.

i am very relaxed, even if someone thinks he can judge me without knowing me, and i really dont care if this game will ever be finished or not. It was just some thoughts i had after reading the posts before. Nothing more. i did not expect that someone put so much in this harmless post. As i said. what i mean and others understand is not always the same.

Ask yourself if you are relaxed if you spent so much time in writing a whole roman just because someone shared his thoughts without anything bad or whatever in mind. And I was for sure not complaining. That would sound different.

so and now is this topic closed for me because its out of topic and not the right place for sensless discussions.

 

[m111m123]

Nah, no conspiracy. Animations also take time. He has been working on office things getting music licensed, because that's a thing, emails back and forth, which is boring and not very exciting to say "hey I spent time emailing people about music". And then post work, sticking the renders to the text, making sure the renders flow with the text, transitions.

I think you didn't read the evidence I copied from the haters? If you read Ocean's post you would know that he is going to set up 450 renders by the end of chapter 5. It turns out that the haters rely on the words of Ocean and you rely on your fantasies and conjectures. Haters 1-0 BobTheDuck. If you want I can send you another theory from the haters regarding the workstation and rendering where Ocean exposed himself.
ps. I also could not defeat the haters, the current that you have not lost to them alone.

 

[SlLePER]

Edit: I honestly can't tell what is the problem the people have with this. I don't want to stare at an overdone splashscreen so I simplified it. The warning is still present but can be clicked away in 0.1 s instead of taking up five. I don't appreciate the over the top "sex gallery" so I removed it. If you are not interested, don't download the file?

There are tags that tag content but I do appreciate that there is warning in the game about no sexual content. One warning to be exact that does not take up several seconds on launch.

It probably shouldn't irritate me as much as it does but I made a mod that simplifies the warning.

Features:

• Shortened splash screen
• Replaces sex gallery with screen that simply says nothing here yet.

To install just place the contents of the archive in the game folder.

Spoiler: Spoiler

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[Tremonia]

There are tags that tag content but I do appreciate that there is warning in the game about no sexual content. One warning to be exact that does not take up several seconds on launch.

You mean something like this?

Spoiler

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[rudy007]

You mean something like this?

Spoiler

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Nope, that's not often enough... I'm sure people would even then ask... Probably a non removable watermark could fix it...

 

[SlLePER]

You mean something like this?

It was probably a miscommunication on my side, sorry. But yes I do know about the warning. I simply prefer something more subdued, hence the file.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think you didn't read the evidence I copied from the haters? If you read Ocean's post you would know that he is going to set up 450 renders by the end of chapter 5. It turns out that the haters rely on the words of Ocean and you rely on your fantasies and conjectures. Haters 1-0 BobTheDuck. If you want I can send you another theory from the haters regarding the workstation and rendering where Ocean exposed himself.

So from dev log 7 (which you didn't link, you just misquoted):
"SG is around 1350 rendered images in. SG has 310 renders left in the queue, and I'd say around 450 renders are left to set up for the update to finish. (Chapter 5.)"

This meant at that point, 1350 were rendered, 310 were in the queue to be rendered and he had 450 renders to actually create (ie place the models, decide the lighting etc). What is really showing is your naivety about the process.

After that, the renders still need to be placed in the game, music needs to be laid, transitions etc. Ocean also is making a guess as to how many more renders are needed, but give or take. Anyway, there is more work involved than just renders, this is not conjecture. The pictures don't stitch themselves together seamlessly to change between different routes and choices, the overlays need to be tested, new variables need to trigger when advancing scenes. If you don't realise that, well, have fun blueballin yourself with theories.

A thirty second animation is 1800 renders at 60fps btw unless it is looped or at lower res as far as I know. If we assume 30, it's still a lot. I'm pretty sure there will be some relatively epic cliffhanger animation at the end of chapter 5 full, because you gotta leave even the haters wanting more ...to hate? I guess? Haters are just jilted anyway.

Who exactly are you saving with all your theories? What catastrophes are prevented? There's plenty of other options on this site while we wait, so I don't see how any of us are inconvenienced. This is just the internet, and we should both probably go outside and be constructive.