VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[SovietRev]

I really like both of these games, different things about either, (like for example I like the MC of WiAB a lot more than SG, and I like the LIs and even the side characters from SG more (and also the overall story).) BUT I half agree with some of the above posts that developing both games at the same time is a colossal mistake. By some grace, the quality does not seem to be affected but the time for production is, obviously. Now, WiAB is canonically the prequel to SG (as far as I understand but correct me if I am wrong) so it would be the logical decision to pause production on SG, even if it results in some patrons leaving and go full speed ahead with the earlier. Now I do not know the financial situation of the Dev in that doing this and taking a hit on income is even possible for them to do and survive but it seems like the healthy solution, because right now, both fan bases have "dissent" for lack of a better word and the vibe is getting too negative for both players and the dev alike. I would really hate for games of this quality to become abandoned. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I really like both of these games, different things about either, (like for example I like the MC of WiAB a lot more than SG, and I like the LIs and even the side characters from SG more (and also the overall story).) BUT I half agree with some of the above posts that developing both games at the same time is a colossal mistake. By some grace, the quality does not seem to be affected but the time for production is, obviously. Now, WiAB is canonically the prequel to SG (as far as I understand but correct me if I am wrong) so it would be the logical decision to pause production on SG, even if it results in some patrons leaving and go full speed ahead with the earlier. Now I do not know the financial situation of the Dev in that doing this and taking a hit on income is even possible for them to do and survive but it seems like the healthy solution, because right now, both fan bases have "dissent" for lack of a better word and the vibe is getting too negative for both players and the dev alike. I would really hate for games of this quality to become abandoned. Just my 2 cents.

The problem is that few people remember the start of the process. WiaB was started development first, the Ocean allowed a friend to develop SG by giving him the script. The co dev decided to stop, and Ocean was left with two games to develop. I am glad he didn't drop either game, but he has made some difficult and some strange choices. Neither group of Patreons is entirely happy, but I don't see an easy solution.

Regardless of that, The idea that pausing the development of either one will result in something better sooner, is not necessarily true. Sure Ocean would have more time spent on whichever was focused on, but the stories wouldn't be woven together as well. Seeing character like Emilio appear in WiaB are due to Ocean developing SG. Some models he rejected for WiaB have become characters in SG. As the games coincide, developing them together allows Ocean to deal with continuity in a different way, and keeps the levels of the story writing consistent. So there are benefits, with the obvious detriments.

Ocean's recent update on discord (almost 2 weeks ago I think) mentions that th enext update for WiaB will put WiaB on steam also. We'll just have to see where the development goes, as the current patrons are still mostly willing to see both games developed, or they wouldn't have stayed the distance. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to process if the paying supports are still supporting. We have years of content ahead in any regards.

 

[sorco2003]

The problem is that few people remember the start of the process. WiaB was started development first, the Ocean allowed a friend to develop SG by giving him the script. The co dev decided to stop, and Ocean was left with two games to develop. I am glad he didn't drop either game, but he has made some difficult and some strange choices. Neither group of Patreons is entirely happy, but I don't see an easy solution.

Regardless of that, The idea that pausing the development of either one will result in something better sooner, is not necessarily true. Sure Ocean would have more time spent on whichever was focused on, but the stories wouldn't be woven together as well. Seeing character like Emilio appear in WiaB are due to Ocean developing SG. Some models he rejected for WiaB have become characters in SG. As the games coincide, developing them together allows Ocean to deal with continuity in a different way, and keeps the levels of the story writing consistent. So there are benefits, with the obvious detriments.

Ocean's recent update on discord (almost 2 weeks ago I think) mentions that th enext update for WiaB will put WiaB on steam also. We'll just have to see where the development goes, as the current patrons are still mostly willing to see both games developed, or they wouldn't have stayed the distance. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to process if the paying supports are still supporting. We have years of content ahead in any regards.

One thing I've noticed in the years since I've been a WIAB patreon is that it's a silent public in "public", although I chalk it up to the big bump that happened between 0.6 and 1 re worked. (even I myself am not active on the discord and here on f95 my first posts on WIAB were complaining).
Being very honest, WIAB could not be as popular as SG, slow burn NTR is not something that appeals massively to any of the audiences. Protagonists who are not teenagers but behave like teenagers and especially nowadays, anything that appears in SG is a spoiler for WIAB.

Since the only reality is "Ocean does not want to leave the game", giving that as the only possible answer, I propose you to think about the different scenarios that can occur:
Put SG on hold: would you put your most popular game, the one that grows little by little with each passing month despite the long periods of development, on hold for an indeterminate time?
Put on pause WIAB: if SG advances steadily, not as a stand alone but as part of a universe that starts in WIAB, wouldn't that make every connection or easter egg a possible major spoiler? would you play later a game where you know some of the plot beforehand? because spoilers in SG that connect directly with the main characters of WIAB would be huge spoilers?
Abandon WIAB: if you can't pause a game because the other would uncover secrets, you can only leave it unfinished, ...
Last but not least, what nobody thinks is even a possibility, abandon SG.
I also believed that the reasonable thing to do was to put something on pause, but that implies so many problems that in the end the only thing left is to abandon the less successful project.
And I insist, the only answer is the official one, Ocean is not going to abandon WIAB.

 

[BobTheDuck]

One thing I've noticed in the years since I've been a WIAB patreon is that it's a silent public in "public", although I chalk it up to the big bump that happened between 0.6 and 1 re worked. (even I myself am not active on the discord and here on f95 my first posts on WIAB were complaining).
Being very honest, WIAB could not be as popular as SG, slow burn NTR is not something that appeals massively to any of the audiences. Protagonists who are not teenagers but behave like teenagers and especially nowadays, anything that appears in SG is a spoiler for WIAB.

I'm glad Ocean's not abandoning either game. I think I played SG before I discovered WiaB, but not by much. I'm probably more eager to find out what's going on in WiaB, even though I enjoy SG a lot.

Having said that, no one wants Ocean to take a second longer, and it's completely rational to wantf orward motion on all fronts. Creative industries are commonly set back from their deadlines, and there are always more random contingencies than planned: creatives are the worst project managers. I'm not defending Ocean, but it's my impatience that makes me unhappy, rather than his delays. But today would be good for all kinds of new things, or in the worst case tomorrow there's always coffee in the mean time I guess...

 

[yossa999]

[...] because right now, both fan bases have "dissent" for lack of a better word and the vibe is getting too negative for both players and the dev alike.

Wow, since you're entitled to speak on behalf of both fan bases for your 2 cents, please exclude me from this statement of yours.
I don't "dissent" to Ocean developing two games in any way, and I'm quite happy with his performance.
He develops two games much better, faster, and with a killer quality that many of the devs I follow can't achieve with just one game in production. And I love both games, so I don't want either one to be put on hold.

 

[slackster]

What's the bail out date for suckers Patreons without an update?
December 2024 or Dec 2026?
Good luck to Ocean - I have a feeling that he will need more than luck though
Edit: was a Patreon for 6 months but can't justify the expense these days

 

[Maviarab]

*sighs*.....see the whining about time is back....

So gonna stoke the fires and piss all you pathetic SG fans off...he should have scrapped it and just carried on with the better VN....WIAB!

 

[slackster]

*sighs*.....see the whining about time is back....

So gonna stoke the fires and piss all you pathetic SG fans off...he should have scrapped it and just carried on with the better VN....WIAB!

I notice you went for the ad hominin attack and avoided the elephant in the room

 

[Maviarab]

I notice you went for the ad hominin attack and avoided the elephant in the room

Oh sorry, you're so unimportant you actually thought that was directed at you alone?

Hah...my mistake

Btw...it wasn't....(and work on your sarcasm detection).

 

[zeph19]

[...]I'm quite happy with his performance.
He develops two games much better, faster, and with a killer quality that many of the devs I follow [...]

Faster compared to which devs and what do you mean when you say "better"? I get the killer quality because those renders are polished as hell.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I notice you went for the ad hominin attack and avoided the elephant in the room

My hot take as someone who's never been a patron is probably less relevant. If the elephant in the room is the update time, and why we're all waiting for breath freshener to help with out baited breath ...there are links on pretty much each page or every other page of the thread to the last couple of dev logs or statements. Ocean said he'd post when it's submitted to steam, which is after he recieved feedback from his private beta team. So, the update to all the rework that drained this thread of so much liveliness (not really) will finally be over for season one, once his beta team point out the glaring mistakes and Ocean submits it to steam. The last communication via discord seemed to imply there was something else going on behind the scenes that has led him to rush forward to release WiaB on steam after the next update (ch4).

So the question is whether you're hopeful, patient or cynical, or a weird combination of all three, as there is the communication of where the game is at, and you don't have to search the thread hard to find it.

But credit to you for being a patron while you could.

Faster compared to which devs and what do you mean when you say "better"? I get the killer quality because those renders are polished as hell.

Ask yourself what devs release an update with 1700+ renders, extra cinematics etc. within 5 months, while also releasing a major update for their second game in that time, and doing further renders on the next chapters of both. It's a small list regardless of quality.

Edit: well, is planning to release praise be the powers of steam!

 

[yossa999]

Faster compared to which devs and what do you mean when you say "better"? I get the killer quality because those renders are polished as hell.

By better, I mean he always tries to improve his processes, hardware and skills whenever possible. He reports be-weekly on each game and shares important information with the players. He interacts with the audience and takes people's feedback and suggestions.
After another "promising" developer goes into radio silence for months, believe me, you will learn to appreciate openness and regular logs from the developer.
Faster than which devs? Let's just say, faster or at the same speed as most solo devs who make games at least roughly close in renders and animation quality to Ocean. I won’t name specific ones - it’s kind of off-topic. Just take a dozen other games and count how many renders their developers make per month or per year.

 

[zeph19]

Ask yourself what devs release an update with 1700+ renders, extra cinematics etc. within 5 months, while also releasing a major update for their second game in that time, and doing further renders on the next chapters of both. It's a small list regardless of quality.

Edit: well, is planning to release praise be the powers of steam!

I don't know, and with renders it's the same as with "lines of code" or "word count" for me - it doesn't really tell me anything about the speed the game is being developed at, because you can measure that in many different ways. For me, speed is the rate at which the game's story is progressing. For you it might be the gigabyte-number going up. He could, and I'm not saying he is, put hundreds of just slightly altered renders where he simply changes a character's hair in the game and sell each as a new render for all I know. The updates don't feel particularly beefy is all I can say, at least for WIAB.

And as for "better", that is also subjective. To me, asking for funding for his threadripper to be able to dish out more updates resulting in him starting a second game and remaking the one that was supposed to get updated faster doesn't exactly mean "better development" to me personally. Working on two games is not a good development practice either, but that seems to have been discussed to death in here, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

His cinematics are unparalleled to me. The one right before the courthouse scene we will maybe never get to is still my favorite moment in AVN history ever.

 

[JJ1960]

If the elephant in the room is the update time, and why we're all waiting for breath freshener to help with out baited breath ...

I thought the elephants in the room were Mila's boobs.

Damn, but they are huge.

 

[Joshy92]

By better, I mean he always tries to improve his processes, hardware and skills whenever possible. He reports be-weekly on each game and shares important information with the players. He interacts with the audience and takes people's feedback and suggestions.
After another "promising" developer goes into radio silence for months, believe me, you will learn to appreciate openness and regular logs from the developer.
Faster than which devs? Let's just say, faster or at the same speed as most solo devs who make games at least roughly close in renders and animation quality to Ocean. I won’t name specific ones - it’s kind of off-topic. Just take a dozen other games and count how many renders their developers make per month or per year.

He listens to feedback?
Bro do you think he'll give us the option of eating our own creampie out of Nami?
That would be so sweet and romantic.

 

[Maviarab]

resulting in him starting a second game and remaking the one that was supposed to get updated faster doesn't exactly mean "better development" to me personally. Working on two games is not a good development practice either, but that seems to have been discussed to death in here, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

Do you actually know what you're even talking about?

 

[BobTheDuck]

I don't know, and with renders it's the same as with "lines of code" or "word count" for me - it doesn't really tell me anything about the speed the game is being developed at, because you can measure that in many different ways. For me, speed is the rate at which the game's story is progressing. For you it might be the gigabyte-number going up. He could, and I'm not saying he is, put hundreds of just slightly altered renders where he simply changes a character's hair in the game and sell each as a new render for all I know. The updates don't feel particularly beefy is all I can say, at least for WIAB.

And as for "better", that is also subjective. To me, asking for funding for his threadripper to be able to dish out more updates resulting in him starting a second game and remaking the one that was supposed to get updated faster doesn't exactly mean "better development" to me personally. Working on two games is not a good development practice either, but that seems to have been discussed to death in here, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

His cinematics are unparalleled to me. The one right before the courthouse scene we will maybe never get to is still my favorite moment in AVN history ever.

I'm not praising the technical achievement of renders for the sake of renders - Ocean tells a story, and each render works towards that. His renders are complex and take a while, but he is still moving fast. The thing is, the story is inhanced by the characters not being the same frame of image for 5 clicks of dialogue. The process of rendering is telling the story as far as I'm concerned, the slight differences I consider nuance, and that is why his cinematics are great as well. The other thing is that Ocean will allow you to make choices that cause you to miss whole chunks of the story, because he's allowing for branching with the different LI paths, playing with a focus on one character will hide a lot of content. It's worth playing the different paths, even if you don't like all the LI's just to get a broader understanding of the story.

I have no desire to support tech purely for tech's sake. I also don't need to understand the details. If it has a purpose, I'm willing to wait for the outcome. Ocean will only get my money once there's a release on Steam anyway, so I lose nothing by waiting.

I agree with you regards that cinematic in WiaB, and we may never see that courthouse scene, but we'll see something equivalent.

 

[yossa999]

He listens to feedback?
Bro do you think he'll give us the option of eating our own creampie out of Nami?
That would be so sweet and romantic.

I don't know, Joshy, I mean, you can post this suggestion on his Discord, but the dudes there are such a narrow-minded, they probably won't be able to appreciate the beauty of real romance.
Although Nami promised to teach the MC about romance and fisting, perhaps eating a creampie would also be an option

 

[yossa999]

I thought the elephants in the room were Mila's boobs.

Damn, but they are huge.

Have you seen the last Sasha's render?

 

[Maviarab]

I don't know, Joshy, I mean, you can post this suggestion on his Discord, but the dudes there are such a narrow-minded, they probably won't be able to appreciate the beauty of real romance.
Although Nami promised to teach the MC about romance and fisting, perhaps eating a creampie would also be an option

Hey..I'm on the Discord server....



I LOVE romance you heathen!