I've spoilered the posts to condense this post a little, also trying to avoid replying too many times.
I love what you've said here. 90% of the anger I've read over this release is people having expectations unfulfilled, they're probing their missing tooth rather than actually looking at what's in front of them. Whether or not the story is a story a player wants to read needs to be on it's own merits, not the merits of what I think I remember from 3 years ago. When I replay the original Ch2, it is cringeworthy. This isn't to say the final version is perfect either, but I'm simply judging/reading/interacting with the final body of work, not the draft.
Again, respect. Getting rid of preconceptions is on of the quickest ways to enjoy life on a wider basis. We all do it subconsciously, so it's hard to judge things as though for the first time. One massive positive for me in my playthrough is the cheeto became an interesting character rather than a gallon of coffee hitting my eyeballs is 1 second flat. I enjoy her humour more now that she's not on 11 the whole time, and there's more colour to her personality.
Well, I had achievements unlock throughout the whole 5 chapters, not sure what you're talking about.
It's so bad that even naming a car (Dodge Viper) was removed... I'm serious. Every character's dialogue that had the word "fuck" was removed. Hell, the comedic relief of the MC having the nipple pump on (you know the scene) was removed. Apparently a male's nipples are too risque for any amount of comedy to be presented.
I know some of this has been answered, but it's still pertinent. I downloaded on steam the first hour and the word fuck was throught the game. Fuck machine wasn't, some other dialogues were cut etc. I get what you're saying, but the concept of a fuck machine is going to trigger censors far more than the word fuck or cunt. And it's about percentages. I'm guessing Ocean decided to slim down the swearing to make it a safer percentage, and decided what situations were 'worthy' of exclamations and where is was simply on the gratuitous side. Much the same as cut Nami content - a lot of her topless scenes got edited - because she had maybe more of them, and Ocean tried to get the overall percentage down without losing the ratings game, which he lost anyway. So sure, unnecessary in the end, but his intent was not to affect players but to get under a certain limbo bar.
I'm still at a loss as to how the 2 year sanitation for it to now be on Steam is for monetary purposes. That doesn't hold any merit... boobies gain eyeball count, they don't detract from it. Sex sells.... not the opposite, been that way forever. So I can't see "sanitation for a two year steam prep" being the reason tbh.
I think part of this is due to recent patreon purges, and being careful to assure some form of security for the game going forward. He now has a separate revenue stream that isn't dependant on patreons fast shifting policy changes. That's objectively a good thing. The process he went through to do that? Well, it's actually his first time. The remaining releases aare all 18+ from this point, so I kinda see this release as a demo for Ocean's whole planned universe. Could it be better? Absolutely. Could more be restored? Absolutely. Do I want him to spend any more time on season 1? Absolutely not, and I think the patrons just want to see more of season 2 where Ocean can move forward without his self imposed restrictions.
I seem to remember you having a redhead from another game for your profile pic, so taken that you have a subjective like for redheads, in particular Nami in this case, could your disappointment be due to the content you are most aligned to (Nami's) had the heaviest editing? As far as definitions go, people are saying things like "there are no boobs!" etc because the boob image they subjectively liked the most from the beta or ch4 is missing. So the whole objective argument is a false one - we're all subjective based on our perception and biases. Seeing we can't find common language in the tread, communication is hard when adult means different things to different people. Trying to be objective about language will just lead us further towards Wittgenstein and further from AVN's and we'll debate whether a symbol is even a symbol or just pixels, and one person's perception of those pixels is ....eh. I just vomited at my own words just now.
What I do like is that by raising the issue you're forcing people to articulate what their actual opinion is. That's a definition that matters. Too many people in the thread believe what other people say rather than making their own opinion.
well i believe every AVN gamer that loves lewd content sould buy all the AVNs they can before the PC police comes to steam and we all will only get VNs with no nudes or sex, like you said patreon is already to the point of banning certain AVNs how much longer will steam become that way, i say very soon if trends progress the way they have in the last couple years.
i believe by the time ocean fully releases season 2 to steam with nudes and sex and all that jazz and i'm saying that when summers gone season 2 is completely done just like season 1 which will be serveral years from now like 5 years probaly, steam will have changed it's views on nudes and sex in AVNs because patreon is just the beginning of the PC police on platforms for AVNs. thats just my opinion on how things are changing in the gaming world the PC community is powerful. you can't have certain words in games now and incest and it's only beginning.
i just think and correct me if i'm wrong but the patreons that support ocean with $3 to $100 dollars a month sould get a better version than the supporters on steam with their one time payment of $15 thats just how i think so take it how you like.
I'll reply to this one, but I'm referring to a bunch of your posts regarding double dipping. The real question is whether OCean has been up front to his patrons through this process, and whether they've stood by the changes. This is the first major change in Ocean's business model - ie diversifying income. As patreon becomes less viable for DAZ/renpy devotees, moving forward Ocean has to work out how to ensure income to keep working. Let's ignore the content and just look at the business decision: Ocean lost the WiaB patreon, with no right of reply. If he loses the SG one, what happens to these two games? Currently he's still going ahead with both. He needs to stabilise his income or he will suffer massive setbacks (especially as he now has monthly leases to pay on the video cards etc). Getting the steam release out and being overly cautious about it makes sense. It doesn't satisfy what people have been hoping for, but some steam purchasers have no history with the game and are playing it for the first time. It's been out for less than a week, and it's doing pretty okay. This means Ocean has a buffer zone for whatever patreon might do.
Regards the content and double dipping: that's literally up to the individual. I'm not a patron for any games, because that's not something I'm willing to do. I might do a kickstarter or one off, but that's it. Other people are patrons not to buy the game on each release but to support the project through all the boring phases where there are no releases. Why support then? So there can be a release. If they decide to buy the steam version as a one off to increase their support, well, it's their money. As a non patreon, I read the devlogs here and knew this was how it was going to be a long time ago. Ocean was clear to his patrons about the release. Us arguing about their wallets when we get the fruit of their patron money - literally we can't pirate without patrons supporting the devs. The very hands that feed our pirate sponging are the patrons. On a grander scheme, if we attack the patrons, our leaks dry up.
We like to pretend we're pirates, but we're actually sponges. The patrons are the ones uploading the games to this site, despite having paid. So I really don't think arguments about double dipping are pertinent - we're getting releases for free because patrons don't give a shit about their money and throw us crumbs.
I can download like a sponge, I can't sail the high seas and liberate even one game from patreon on my own.
Despite how long the dev cycle has been, it's also important to remember that this is the first 'comercial' release Ocean has done. I agree that he failed to deliver everything that people wanted or expected, but if he learns and we see the improvements in WiaB's release and SG Season 2, I think the trajectory will be clear. I still have a ton of other AVN's I've yet to play while waiting. WiaB being the next major release will be a good litmus test - if it is released on steam intact, we'll know that Ocean is capable of doing an 18+ release without triggering steam, without second guessing steam.
