VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

This is my dilemma. Ideally I would prefer that they not be related as I do not have an incest kink. But at the same time, their bond would be severely watered down (imo) if they were not related. I think that the strenght of their bond deeply relies on that blood relationship and it would, in my eyes, severely affect my enjoyment of the narrative and of both characters

It's a tough one.

Understood. I personally think a foster child/ward relationship works for the taboo, and it would mostly be in Nika and Nami (and Nicole's sensationalist) heads, and they'd see it the same way even though they're unrelated, even if they're not adopted either. In any case they've clearly been raised to keep each other at arms length, yet we know that Noji encourages Nika to bring girls home, and he doesn't want 'the talk' from her while she also has strict, opposite comments about their weird relationship. The foster idea goes along with her talk with Nika about the fact she never noticed any traces from him (ie she didn't have to deal with dirty laundry) like she did with others in the house (wait! What 'others?' Nami isn't a multitude) as well as Bella treating it as a halfway house/foster house when she drops him off.

But we're still no closer to discovering Ocean's actual intent.

Plausible concepts for Noji's reluctance:
- until now, they were too young for any relationship, so Noji's rules were based on age, and she hasn't yet gotten used to them being of age, especially if something happened one time
- she's getting support payments and the support group frowns upon any relationship in their wards.

I'm not saying these are true, or even that I believe them. It's simply that without further explanation, we're left wondering. We also need to understand Noji's stake in their upbringing, and why.

 

[StingerWolf]

I think they are half siblings. Same father, different mother. For Nami there are many candidates, Daphne, Miru, you name it. MC I have already elaborated.

 

[mostwanted8]

You guys have been going strong with the theories today.

 

[N1ghtcrawler]

You are resourceful enough to do a new playthrough and pick up on the dozens of examples that would illustrate my point.

Don't try to dump on me what you should do. You make your point and if I disagree, you provide arguments. That's how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, your words are empty and mean nothing.

And I don't remember you and me having any fights before, so I have no idea why you're so rude. If you're tired of discussing the same thing over and over again then say so or don't answer at all. Stick to normal conversation or it will end very quickly.

I can leave you with one. The most braindead obvious one. That consists of 4 little words. "Why is she red"?

Unless you are severely cognitively impaired, you can understand that there is no context in which these words make sense unless they are related BY BLOOD. Or at least are perceived as such. But here is the thing. At least 2 characters ask that question and NOT ONCE do the MC or Nami offer an explanation that they aren't related and therefore asking why Nami isn't a redhead makes no sense.

Why would they endure that question being asked multiple times and not once enlighten other people as to why their question is moronic?

I do know with absolute certainty that Zara asking that question in the Jacuzzi is still in this version.

Nika gives Summer the answer, we just didn't hear it.
"You asked me that a million times already."
By the time the same question is asked by Zara, he replies
"Yeah, no idea how she got to be a Cheeto."
That's the "I've heard this question a million times already" type of answer.
What's so stupid about him not answering directly here?
He has reasons to answer in this way.

It boggles my mind how some users here can be so fucking dense. Do they even read the words of text in the game???? How can you play the game as if MC and Nami aren't related at all and then sit through that pre-pizza shop conversation between them and think "Well this makes sense"!?!?!?!?!?!

What in the fuck is the point of the "race with impossible odds" if they aren't related at all? Who the hell gives a flying fuck if two unrelated people who were friends since childhood/grow together get into a relationship???? Like seriously how am I the only one losing my marbles over these people's reasoning skills? How do these people function day to day?

This is a personal issue for Nika and Nami and their understanding of what the people around them will think. Also, maybe it's normal for you and me to see them as a couple, but for example Victoria and Mila during their foursome kissing would definitely find Nami's involvement odd. Anyone who close to them and sees them as siblings would find this odd (except for Vanessa, of course). Whether they're blood-related or not is irrelevant here.

So yeah, like I said before, I don't see any problems with the story if they aren't blood related. Yet. Because we haven't faced any judgement from the public and we don't know how people around them will react to their relationship in the long term.

 

[BobTheDuck]

You guys have been going strong with the theories today.
View attachment 3676936

Spoiler: Ocean's definitely big on aliens

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[RNasc4444]

Don't try to dump on me what you should do. You make your point and if I disagree, you provide arguments. That's how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, your words are empty and mean nothing.

And I don't remember you and me having any fights before, so I have no idea why you're so rude. If you're tired of discussing the same thing over and over again then say so or don't answer at all. Stick to normal conversation or it will end very quickly.


Nika gives Summer the answer, we just didn't hear it.
"You asked me that a million times already."
By the time the same question is asked by Zara, he replies
"Yeah, no idea how she got to be a Cheeto."
That's the "I've heard this question a million times already" type of answer.
What's so stupid about him not answering directly here?
He has reasons to answer in this way.
This is a personal issue for Nika and Nami and their understanding of what the people around them will think. Also, maybe it's normal for you and me to see them as a couple, but for example Victoria and Mila during their foursome kissing would definitely find Nami's involvement odd. Anyone who close to them and sees them as siblings would find this odd (except for Vanessa, of course). Whether they're blood-related or not is irrelevant here.

So yeah, like I said before, I don't see any problems with the story if they aren't blood related. Yet. Because we haven't faced any judgement from the public and we don't know how people around them will react to their relationship in the long term.

I didn't mean to be rude. I have no issues with you so I apologize for the harsh tone. I was just a bit frustrated with the topic.

Regarding the Zara question, I feel like you keep dancing around the issue. WHY was the question asked? More than once I might add. Would you approach a red haired person on the street to ask them why they are red? If a friend of yours introduced you to a red haired person, would you ask that question? Of course not. Why? Because there is no plausible reason to. So why on Earth would anyone ask the MC and Nami that? The answer is simple. It's because they are related and one of them is red haired and the other is not. That's WHY THAT QUESTION IS ASKED. It's simple. It's obvious. There is no other reason for that question to be asked, ever, in the history of mankind, between two functioning parties.

Not sure how to reply to your last 2 paragraphs... You believe they are related but not blood related? Is that it? You also say that "whether they're blood-related or not is irrelevant here" while it is not. It is extremely relevant. IN FACT IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT IS RELEVANT in the entire subject. What is irrelevant is how they are perceived. That has no bearing on anything. Simply put:

Blood related = frowned upon or straight up wrong/illegal in modern society
Not blood related = literally no one gives a flying fuck in modern society

I honestly don't know what kind of upbringing or culture you were raised in that has a negative view on a relationship between 2 people completely unrelated to each other that for some reason grew up together. As far as I know that isn't taboo anywhere...

 

[John972]

Don't try to dump on me what you should do. You make your point and if I disagree, you provide arguments. That's how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, your words are empty and mean nothing.

And I don't remember you and me having any fights before, so I have no idea why you're so rude. If you're tired of discussing the same thing over and over again then say so or don't answer at all. Stick to normal conversation or it will end very quickly.


Nika gives Summer the answer, we just didn't hear it.
"You asked me that a million times already."
By the time the same question is asked by Zara, he replies
"Yeah, no idea how she got to be a Cheeto."
That's the "I've heard this question a million times already" type of answer.
What's so stupid about him not answering directly here?
He has reasons to answer in this way.
This is a personal issue for Nika and Nami and their understanding of what the people around them will think. Also, maybe it's normal for you and me to see them as a couple, but for example Victoria and Mila during their foursome kissing would definitely find Nami's involvement odd. Anyone who close to them and sees them as siblings would find this odd (except for Vanessa, of course). Whether they're blood-related or not is irrelevant here.

So yeah, like I said before, I don't see any problems with the story if they aren't blood related. Yet. Because we haven't faced any judgement from the public and we don't know how people around them will react to their relationship in the long term.

To me, the issue is that Ocean wants to have his cake and eat it too. He had the opportunity through the rework process to clearly define the relationship between Nika and Nami, one way or another. However, fragments of remnant dialogues mixed in with reworked dialogues utterly confuse the issue (just the same as a remnant dialogue has Vic and Maja as unrelated to each other while reworked dialogue has them as siblings). There is just too much nod-nod, wink-wink...

To anyone saying Nika and Nami's relationship CANNOT be TABOO UNLESS they ARE related, I say, Bollocks! Get in the real world.

Nika and Nami were taken into care by Nojiko from a VERY young age. For all intents and purposes, they have been raised as siblings, even if they're not blood-related. That is how society would generally view them. Also, REMEMBER, they are only newly-minted adults, legally, so they haven't had latitude to have a relationship, especially while under Nojiko's care/roof.

SG could slot into this canon or something similar with very little effort. But, alas, SG remains a contradictory mess on the status of the Nika/Nami relationship, as has been pointed out many, many times before. I can only reasonably conclude this is a 100% deliberate choice by the Dev, and that's a shame.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I didn't say that people close to Nami and Nika would see their relationship as something illegal or taboo. I only said that they would see it as odd. Because they see them as brother and sister, because they act like brother and sister. They just don't see them as a couple. Eventually that perception will go away if they are normal people with normal views. Is it clearer now?

This is actually the thing - if people don't know they live together, they assume they're a cute couple, because there is nothing to inidicate they are related, not physical signs. When Nami mentions they're roomies, after Jeff thinks they're cute, everyone doubles down on them making a cute couple in the scene. Then Nami decides to just go with it because it happens so much. We can see that publically, no one can sense anything weird about them being a couple.

Zara thinks they're going to be asian at first because (presumably) Nick or Vanessa (who met Noji before the dinner) told Zara Noji had kids, or Noji said she's got kids. Maybe easier to introduce yourself that way, than get into complicated stories about wards and guardians or foster homes. No one explains WHY they're not asian, it's just dropped. Then in the jacuzzi, Zara asks:

za "Why is she red?"
scene ad959 with dssa
d "That you'll have to ask her parents."
scene ad960 with dssa
za "What happened to yours?"
scene ad961 with dssa
d "They died in a car accident."
scene ad960 with dssa
za "And Nami's?"
scene ad961 with dssa
d "Believe it or not... The same."

It's a continuation of the previous confusion, she's still trying to work out the dynamic between these new strangers in her life.

Whether or not it's hamfisted writing right then is another matter entirely.

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

I do not understand what did you write. Do you mean that the movie Baise moi is rated 13+?

I asked where it's rated 18+!

Where I live it's not PG, means a 13 year old may watch it!

Do you understand?

 

[N1ghtcrawler]

This is actually the thing - if people don't know they live together, they assume they're a cute couple, because there is nothing to inidicate they are related, not physical signs. When Nami mentions they're roomies, after Jeff thinks they're cute, everyone doubles down on them making a cute couple in the scene. Then Nami decides to just go with it because it happens so much. We can see that publically, no one can sense anything weird about them being a couple.

Stop shooting me in the back
Are you sure that you can always accurately distinguish siblings from a couple if there is no similarity in appearance between them and they do not behave like a 100% couple, that is, they do not kiss, for example? I have a sister. We are not alike. There were cases when we were also confused with a couple.
I see your point, but the fact that they declared themselves siblings in front of them now creates a line in their behavior that, in people minds, siblings should not cross. And even if they are not related by blood, it will still cause some confusion.

 

[JazzR]

Hello everyone.

A few years ago, after discovering the world of visual novels, I came across Summer's Gone.
I found the writing incredibly well-crafted and the development of Nika, Nami and Bella's personalities and the ways they interact with each other extremely inspiring.

Having always loved telling stories and having a lot of experience as a 3D artist, I immediately wanted to learn how to use Daz and Ren'Py to create my own visual novel.
I found these 3 characters so visually beautiful that I wanted to work with them and so I found the assets used on the Daz store.
To summarize, I wanted to use Nika, Nami and Bella as a means of training by only keeping the relational dynamics between them, their personalities and their faces/hair.
I had fun putting them on stage, as a hobby.

The problem, which I didn't see coming until it was too late, was that over the months I found myself with a very advanced scenario and a few thousand renderings...
You see what I mean ?!!
The more time passes, the more proud I am of what I accomplished as a novice and the more I want to share it or even sell it on Steam but I don't dare.

Even if, as it stands, my story is different and the MC's past is different as well as the causes of his depression and his isolation (for example there is no Summer in my story), I still have some big scruples because in my opinion, what makes the heart of the novel Summer's Gone is the clever mix between the charisma of these 3 characters, the relational dynamics between MC and Nami (Yo!Rolls!), and between MC and Bella, (I love you , Me niether...c*nt !).

To make a long story short, although I have a different story, different causes and consequences, different events and different names and characters throughout the story, the simple fact of having the heads of these 3 characters, their states of mind and the relational dynamic between them is more than enough to pose a big dilemma for me and it frustrates me more and more.

This is why I come to you, the community, to get your opinions, your opinions on the moral dilemma that I am facing. I need to take the temperature a little to know how this would be perceived in the world of visual novels devs and fans.
Friends have told me that it's common to find the same 3D assets used in different VNs but, as I said, I think I've done a lot more than just copying 3 faces.... I have copied what I believe to be the heart of this excellent Summer's Gone.

Thank you in advance for your views on the matter and sorry for my English. Also sorry if this isn't the right place to talk about this, I'm new here.

Have a good day !

 

[Maviarab]

Hello everyone.

A few years ago, after discovering the world of visual novels, I came across Summer's Gone.
I found the writing incredibly well-crafted and the development of Nika, Nami and Bella's personalities and the ways they interact with each other extremely inspiring.

Having always loved telling stories and having a lot of experience as a 3D artist, I immediately wanted to learn how to use Daz and Ren'Py to create my own visual novel.
I found these 3 characters so visually beautiful that I wanted to work with them and so I found the assets used on the Daz store.
To summarize, I wanted to use Nika, Nami and Bella as a means of training by only keeping the relational dynamics between them, their personalities and their faces/hair.
I had fun putting them on stage, as a hobby.

The problem, which I didn't see coming until it was too late, was that over the months I found myself with a very advanced scenario and a few thousand renderings...
You see what I mean ?!!
The more time passes, the more proud I am of what I accomplished as a novice and the more I want to share it or even sell it on Steam but I don't dare.

Even if, as it stands, my story is different and the MC's past is different as well as the causes of his depression and his isolation (for example there is no Summer in my story), I still have some big scruples because in my opinion, what makes the heart of the novel Summer's Gone is the clever mix between the charisma of these 3 characters, the relational dynamics between MC and Nami (Yo!Rolls!), and between MC and Bella, (I love you , Me niether...c*nt !).

To make a long story short, although I have a different story, different causes and consequences, different events and different names and characters throughout the story, the simple fact of having the heads of these 3 characters, their states of mind and the relational dynamic between them is more than enough to pose a big dilemma for me and it frustrates me more and more.

This is why I come to you, the community, to get your opinions, your opinions on the moral dilemma that I am facing. I need to take the temperature a little to know how this would be perceived in the world of visual novels devs and fans.
Friends have told me that it's common to find the same 3D assets used in different VNs but, as I said, I think I've done a lot more than just copying 3 faces.... I have copied what I believe to be the heart of this excellent Summer's Gone.

Thank you in advance for your views on the matter and sorry for my English. Also sorry if this isn't the right place to talk about this, I'm new here.

Have a good day !

You already know the answer....

 

[JazzR]

You already know the answer....

Unfortunately, yes. I already know.
However, if I ask the question, it is because I believe in the "fan-made" philosophy.
So...can you please elaborate a little more what you really think about this ?
Thank

 

[Adhdclassic]

I want Mila and Helen to suffocate me with their boobs and butts.

 

[Maviarab]

Unfortunately, yes. I already know.
However, if I ask the question, it is because I believe in the "fan-made" philosophy.
So...can you please elaborate a little more what you really think about this ?
Thank

I think he'd be entitled to sue you if you tried to make money off of it. As you say, you haven't just copied the character looks (though given Oceans small adjustments if you have exactly (as much as is possible), then that's even worse for you), you've copied (ie, stolen) their personality, what makes the characters who they are.

It's a big no no period and the 'fan made thing' is just bullshit and your hoping people will justify your decision. They won't. As I said...

...you already know the answer.

 

[Elduriel]

and Ocean is definitely big enough to sue for shit like that. Buying the same DAZ assets is one thing, we've all seen similar looking characters across games, but all the other bits are definitely smell like trouble

 

[Yourmom21]

Hello everyone.

A few years ago, after discovering the world of visual novels, I came across Summer's Gone.
I found the writing incredibly well-crafted and the development of Nika, Nami and Bella's personalities and the ways they interact with each other extremely inspiring.

Having always loved telling stories and having a lot of experience as a 3D artist, I immediately wanted to learn how to use Daz and Ren'Py to create my own visual novel.
I found these 3 characters so visually beautiful that I wanted to work with them and so I found the assets used on the Daz store.
To summarize, I wanted to use Nika, Nami and Bella as a means of training by only keeping the relational dynamics between them, their personalities and their faces/hair.
I had fun putting them on stage, as a hobby.

The problem, which I didn't see coming until it was too late, was that over the months I found myself with a very advanced scenario and a few thousand renderings...
You see what I mean ?!!
The more time passes, the more proud I am of what I accomplished as a novice and the more I want to share it or even sell it on Steam but I don't dare.

Even if, as it stands, my story is different and the MC's past is different as well as the causes of his depression and his isolation (for example there is no Summer in my story), I still have some big scruples because in my opinion, what makes the heart of the novel Summer's Gone is the clever mix between the charisma of these 3 characters, the relational dynamics between MC and Nami (Yo!Rolls!), and between MC and Bella, (I love you , Me niether...c*nt !).

To make a long story short, although I have a different story, different causes and consequences, different events and different names and characters throughout the story, the simple fact of having the heads of these 3 characters, their states of mind and the relational dynamic between them is more than enough to pose a big dilemma for me and it frustrates me more and more.

This is why I come to you, the community, to get your opinions, your opinions on the moral dilemma that I am facing. I need to take the temperature a little to know how this would be perceived in the world of visual novels devs and fans.
Friends have told me that it's common to find the same 3D assets used in different VNs but, as I said, I think I've done a lot more than just copying 3 faces.... I have copied what I believe to be the heart of this excellent Summer's Gone.

Thank you in advance for your views on the matter and sorry for my English. Also sorry if this isn't the right place to talk about this, I'm new here.

Have a good day !

Well friend, if were simply same character models it wouldnt be a big deal, but if you keep the relations the same and such a crucial part of this novel the same then yes it would be a problem.
Can't you alter the character's models or slight change them ?

 

[Yourmom21]

Well friend, if were simply same character models it wouldnt be a big deal, but if you keep the relations the same and such a crucial part of this novel the same then yes it would be a problem.
Can't you alter the character's models or slight change them ?

And of course slight change what you copied from personalitys and narrative points.

 

[warheadd]

I'm curious how the girls interact if you keep doing things that make their relationship status go up, especially the older characters and those who have good relationships, etc.

 

[JazzR]

I think he'd be entitled to sue you if you tried to make money off of it. As you say, you haven't just copied the character looks (though given Oceans small adjustments if you have exactly (as much as is possible), then that's even worse for you), you've copied (ie, stolen) their personality, what makes the characters who they are.

It's a big no no period and the 'fan made thing' is just bullshit and your hoping people will justify your decision. They won't. As I said...

...you already know the answer.

Thank you for your reply. A bit rude, because you're missing the context a bit, but thank you all the same.
It's presumptuous to believe that I'm using the "fan-made" excuse to make money even with over 3500 renders created as a simple hobbyist and novice.

And I don't understand why the look would make it even worse. I bought the right to use these 3D assets in the same way as Oceans and it was not at all complicated to recreate the same faces. I even changed some details like hair colors and more. My MC even has scars.
Did you know that the figure used for Nami is also in the visual novel Love Season?!

I realize that I should have simply stopped at “share it” instead of adding “and even sell it”.
On the other hand, for personalities, it is on this point where I agree and which posed a moral problem for me, even if I strongly doubt that this is enough to be taken to court since they have nothing iconic. Even Sonic or Mario, much more iconic personnalities, have fan-made ones.

Brief. I am scrupulous enough to know that your message alone is enough to make me forget about the possibility of being able to sell it. I simply wanted to be exhaustive in my approach to get fair feedback.
Let's forget about selling it and just stick to the idea of sharing it.
I'm waiting to have a little more opinion before knowing if I should put all this in the "trash".

Thank