I think youre focussing to much on good/bad, Nika didnt stated that Bella's a saint doing nothing wrong, he only said she isnt this bad and im pretty sure his intention is to get them closer over time (similar like with vic). Most of the SG character are neither good nor bad, most of them did shitty things in the past but i think all of them are developing.
Does it really make Bella a bad person to steal from the Holgersons? Its of course against the law but .. than all characters of wiab are bad persons or at least the whole zane family. I consider them all in some grey area.
And what do you expect Nika (or Bella) to do? Come clean about being thieves? Going to the police and destroying their own future? Thats just way too much considering the holgersons dont have any evidence against Mila and just using her as a scapegoat. An outcome which neither Nika or Bella intended and which - to be frank - wasnt possible to foresee because its so stupid.
Mila of course isnt bad either, shes just one more person who didnt did everything right in the past, i think this elevates the characters in SG. Not every girl is the perfect innocent virgin and not every guy is an small dicked asshole lol, They all have layers which makes them less boring and cardboard.
I still dont really get why you blame Nika and Bella for the Holgersons accusation of Mila. How should they have anticipated this bullshit? The holgersons are to blame for accusing a innocent person of theft, im pretty sure they know it wasnt Mila. And which judghe thinks it was her without evidene?
I should have made it clear right away why I find Nika and Bella's actions against the Holgersons so bad. I just assumed you'd already seen my previous posts on this topic and I don't need to repeat it again.
Not the heist but the use of Vanessa makes them look particularly awful. Bob mentioned how sinister she is towards Mila, so indeed she might be involved. But before, she is presented as just Mario's girlfriend, she had nothing to do with what's going on between them. Even if Bella has seen her previously and made a bad impression of her, Bella never said why Vanessa deserved to be treated like that. Vanessa's perceived as innocent here.
Bella's convinced Stefan wants her mother. Hmm, let's assume. But at the same time, she doesn't have a problem giving him another woman for the sake of her and Nika's stupid plan. No doubt if it hadn't failed, they would have used her. And they didn't learn any moral lessons, they just shrugged and moved on. Give them a different victim and they'll try to do it again.
That alone is completely fucked up.
And for that reason, the restroom scene doesn't work for me. Just like the words that Nika says to Mila. Bella's regrets have no weight, so far they don't affect her actions. She has a selective sense of conscience. Nika who advises her to redeem herself for bullying a woman remains silent in the Vanessa situation. They're both blind.
Regarding Mila, I blame Nika for his stupidity that got her in trouble. How is he not responsible if he acted like an idiot when she told him not to do anything foolish? She acted like an adult, he acted like a child. Mario didn't say anything bad to her, he only insulted Nika's hair. And if Nika is involved in the heist, you may not see it as a big deal, but I find his act particularly pitiful given how disproportionate was his response. I don't get why I should treat it like it's not a big deal. In my eyes, that makes him an undeniably bad person.
Before the rework, Nika and Bella looked even worse. If I remember correctly, Bella mentioned that she had studied the layout of the Holgerson house and she knew the location of the security cameras. She was planned this in advance and she acted like someone for whom this wasn't the first heist. Nika had planned something specific against the Holgersons before they charged Mila. His dialog was rewritten and now he sounds less ominous. He came up with the plan on the fly... but was preparing just some ideas since they insulted Mila.
Overall, Nika and Bella are doing shitty things right now. I see no reason why they should be in a grey area. They're straight up awful people. I ofc don't consider them evil, that's too strong for their description.
What do you mean he told her she isn't this bad?
He explicitly said she isn't bad person, far from it.
And she replied to him, I know. And the story just moved on.
Meanwhile, they're doing awful things that aren't being judged at all.
I don't mind the characters making excuses for themselves. They are human, they can be wrong. But I'm not okay that the story that presents itself very seriously and supposed to be about healing and redemption gives this slack and doesn't show signs they're misguided.
This whole thing bothers me because Ocean isn't being completely honest about Nika and Bella's behavior, on purpose or not. This could be for the better or bad depending on how the story progress. But for now, this leads to a twisted view of the characters.
I'm not blaming him, by the way. He is hostage to the format in which he tells the story. And if he's telling it right, it'll probably be another two-three or ten
years before we get to a rethinking of Bella and Nika's behavior.
The main factor that makes me trust him is Leia and the consequences she faces. He is very frank and honest about her, sometimes cruel. I love the way he reveals her. Of course, that doesn't mean he should treat Bella in the same manner. She's more likeable person. My favorite little moment with her is when she sees a child with parents and smiles. It was cute, I smiled back. I can't imagine Leia in her shoes.
Most WiAB characters are in a gray area because we know too little about them. But we know enough about Leia to conclude that she is without a doubt a bad person, personally I see her far worse than Bella and Nika.
Haha im just really not a age-gap fan and i love ayua
And Miss Marla addiotnaly is rather ugly and esp irritating with her behavior.
Well, I'm not really interested in Marla either. If I had to choose between having a romance with her or Ayua in the game, I would choose Marla. And if I was offered a choice of which one of them should be a LI, I would choose Ayua. But only because Marla makes more sense as a lewdable, not because she's somehow worse than the rest of the LIs or Ayua. I hope I didn't confuse you with my train of thought here.
I still cant see stephan holgerson doing these actions out of pettyness which isnt even his own but his sons. Im not convinced yet that he is comic relief evil yet, maybe his son lied to him tho.
I'm pretty sure Ocean's intentionally creating this pathetic comic evil image around Stefan to trick our expectations. Bella says Stefan lusts after her mother, but I don't buy it. She doesn't provide any solid evidence. Her accusations of him being a pedophile look even more suspicious.
I also doubt Mario asked Stefan to press charges against Mila. From what we've seen of Mario, he looks more like a weak guy who got involved with bad company and blindly repeats after his rich friends so he doesn't get out of their circle. He acts very passive when he sees Mila, doesn't say anything against her, just smirks at his friends' comments, but immediately turns away when Nika stands up for her. The fact that Vanessa turned him into her play toy only confirms it.
Anyway, that's just my first impression of him. There's a possibility he doesn't actually hold any grudge against Mila and what is happening between them is somewhat similar to what happened between Mila and Bella when they were kids. It will be interesting if Mario has his own healing theme too.
I don't think the Holgersons are going after Mila because of some pettiness. I don't believe it also because it just doesn't take the plot anywhere. Either Stefan has plans for her or he somehow knows about Nika's involvement and he's using her as bait against him.
I've seen the suggestion that there might be conflict between the Holgersons and the Zanes. And at some point in the story the Zanes would stand up for Nika to save him from Stefan (
BobTheDuck, if I remember correctly, you mentioned this possibility). But is there any indication of that in the game?
On the contrary, I get the impression that the Holgersons and the Zanes might be in the same boat. I think it's more likely that the Zanes, the Petrovas, the Reveras, the Holgersons and detective Ceril, all of them are part of the same criminal network. And the more we interact with them the closer we get to Leia and William.
If the Holgersons and Zanes are indeed working together, then I'm just taking a wild guess here: Stefan wants to get Mila to work at Leia's club. There are hints of this plot twist. Mila is poor and needs money. Bella's jokes about her working part-time as a prostitute. Mila's disapproval of Nia being a camgirl and then her shock when she hears how much Nia makes per day.
Finally, the level of wealth on display in SG beggars WiaB. The Zane's have a cute house, nothing special. The farm, nothing special. No one seems to have anything remotely as opulent/extravagent as they do in SG. Everything is overblown, deliberately.
Yeah, the farm, nothing special. Except for the underground Gus Fring-type drug lab.
Depending on how big that lab was and what drugs they're developing there, it could have cost them as much as the entire Holgerson house, minus the gold panties... Just kidding, of course. But it still cost them a lot, I think.
The pimp thing? If you consider how Vanessa eye bangs Mila just before those screen shots, I'd say it's likely and they'll offer for her charges to be dropped in return for being some kind of waitress at Leia's club - maybe Stefan owes Leia a favour. Ocean seems big on the favours being traded.
I just had a wild theory. What if Vanessa is lying about this "I'll never have to work" nonsense and is actually working for Leia at her club instead Emilio? She examines Mila, her future subordinate whom Stefan is offering to Leia. She establishes contacts with her in order to later influence her to work at the club. Evil, evil witch.
