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Mr_Mister

Member
Jan 9, 2020
209
572
Epic= "heroic or grand in scale or character"
I am going with this defination sir, maybe it has other meaning which I am not aware of.

And believe it or not but I have actually played Leap of Faith, what a shock right?
It felt more like a slice of life, romance visual novel instead of a epic journey written by Drifty.

But again who am I to think logically, I am just a insecure person who try to hard to be funny and still fail miserably :(

Anyways I am so sorry sweet sir for offending you, believe me it wasn't my intention.
are there Epic avn? the answer is yes! . [City of Broken Dreamers] comes to mind.
with that said , the question you should ask is "are there well written avns ?", the answer is an emphatic HELL NO ! .
just remember that 99% of the avn creators are decent , good or pretty good at creating renders (images) and atmosphere
but they're not even decent writers , plus all the problems with translations because very often phrases and and conversations lose their intended meaning and context once they're translated to other languages.
hope i didn't bored you with all the semantics about your question.

jeff-bridges-what.gif
 

SDDA

Member
Jun 21, 2017
121
272
:KEK: :KEK: :KEK:
Dude, don't stop there, be ambitious, you're about to prove the general theorem of the Zone "Every developer is a milker"

Why doesn't a developer hire a team? There's only one explanation - because he's a milker and doesn't want to share the profits with the rest. And you know, I can't even argue with that, developers are people, and for some reason people want to earn more and work less. Brilliant.
Sadly you're still making scenarios inside your head even regarding my comment on this forum i haven't said anything about 70% of the things you just wrote. Never said he is not working on the game, what i said is that for most of the fans its more than enough if he makes the game more pretty while not moving forward at all with the story. Btw if you want somebody to stop disagreeing with you maybe stop engaging him with quotes and comments, works wonders right? This whole back and fort was initiated by you.

Maybe you should read things more than once, make sure you understand them, then come up with an answer. But anyway im not going to bother repeating myself while you guys reach the same conclusion i made in the beginning have a nice continuous acid trip like these ones
"A very cute scene when they are preparing to the first day if college, Grace Mesa: The Long Way is playing, Nami in the uniform, Noji says how beautiful Nami is, Nami's all lightens up from the praise."

and keep enjoying this epic story.
 
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PaxHadrian17

Engaged Member
Sep 8, 2020
2,365
11,481
So in reality we came back to what i said in the beginning that why would he hire any help when the better visuals are more than enough to keep and to get more supporters, even without actual progression... Thank you for realising and proving my point even tho it took 2 pages in this forum.

Cheers!! :coffee:
You clearly have important work to do and no amount of discussion, facts, artist choices, rebuttal of your commentary will dissuade you from your chosen path.

Got it - next time, just post the appropriate signage when you are 'working':

zzzzzAxeGrindingMeme1.jpg

Cheers!! :coffee:
 
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BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,140
12,543
Yeah, it seems that Nike was eating her out. I don't think there will be penetration for while still, maybe till S2 end. But Ocean seems to be turning up a notch the lewd aspects of the game, he already was with S1 but had to cut it, I also don't think that Bella will be the only one, most probably Nami and Milla will have similar scenes.
Ocean's already teased Zara squishing herself against him in the hot tub, with something in her hand in another render? Questionable as to what the thing is. We also have renders of Nika infrom of Nami in the bathroom, down low, and renders of Mila that Ocean was cagey about because there was nudity. The question is how much of this will be in Ch1. I think there's a good chance almost every girl will have some sort of lewd scene in S2 somewhere. Sonja would be the only one that might move slower.

Great idea, plus there's already a team of experts in all subjects in this thread who have been teaching stubborn Ocean how to make a proper game for five years, and silly him still won't listen. Lead them, you already have a great plot. Success is guaranteed! I'd probably donate a buck or two to see the grey smoking vajayjay.
"Grey Smoking Vajayjay" sounds like the last game in the Oceanverse, with Summer alone in a nursing home chain smoking, remembering Wollust and her sexcapades away from there, telling her grand daughter about all the best ways to be a female MC without dealing with the dev's bullshit forced corruption paths. Solid!

I love that in a forum we only see the post above us and nothing else, this conversation started by why he doesn't build a team or get help to be more productive. Where i answered that since good visuals are more than enough to get ppl hooked on the game while the story is mediocre there is no reason for him to hire anyone.

Now there is nothing bad with somebody honing his skills and learning new things along the way, but why do it for the expense of progression? Do you rly think that from 2019-2024 only visual updates are enough, cause the dev wanted to learn and try blender? That you only get butt plug guy and nothing else while scenes get deleted so he can get more money from gog and steam? What are you guys on about?

SG was here, cause he didn't need to move 1 inch further than he started, he learned a new program and supporters who wanted to continue did finance his education. I honestly can't believe that ppl have nothing wrong about if they repeat scene to scene everything with each update with a little extension, like the bar scene in the last update and such. Why do u think we are only at season 1. Ppl are joking this game taking 20 years to be completed why you think that is? , but if you think about it 5 update/ 5 years and he wants 20 chapters i let you do the calculation...
You're saying all this like you've discovered a new continent. Pick a page in this thread, any page, years back, and you can probably find these sentiments on that page, mostly right before a release, or right after when a poster realises there is still no fap material. SG is still here and survives all the shade. But wait, pick a new 0.1 release in the latest games, and you can probably find someone asking when it'll be updated, even if the first public release was yesterday and they're the second poster: segs when, android? Compressed? etc!!!!!!! ...It's old. You haven't discovered whether Sasha is Summer, you haven't worked out who anyone's real dads in the game are. Instead, you're talking about project management errors. I play AVN's to get away from project management, so if that's your fun take away...

Speculation on the motivations of a dev are pointless, other than: they are either supporting their AVN passion with a well paying day job, or they have enough supporters to continue, or the game will fall into the abandoned category. Ocean's last couple of devlog's expressly mention that he has been looking to hire people. He's written about it many times at different points in the development, especially from ch3.5 onward I think. Some of the backdrops he got other artists to make for him. He pays for music rather than writing it himself. So what's your point? Ocean gets slammed for spending patron money on music licenses, then gets slammed for not hiring people? What makes me in my armchair a great project manager that knows whether this video card or this program or this combination of things, or these assets are worth buying?

Your actual unspoken point here is "Ocean should spend money on what I think would result in increased productivty". Except, he's been trying that, and it's not been working out. The coder for the phone who skipped. The proof readers who dropped the pile. This latest person who he paid for a course so Ocean could train them to do what he needs someone to do. He's doing all these things and they're not working out. Why? Maybe he's just to difficult to work with (I'd hate to work with a perfectionist, I'm too much of one myself in my professional world. I feel sorry for my clients). Or... maybe they don't have the passion to deliver what he's after; close enough is okay for them, but not what Ocean's willing to pay for. Who knows? I don't need to see his receipts or call logs.

What is obvious is that you don't enjoy the game, and you don't enjoy other people enjoying the game. Well, I'm going to enjoy it regardless, because he's continuing to develop it. If at some point I grow tired of waiting, I have heaps of other amusing things to do with my time. SG isn't as good as coffee for me, as much as I like it.
 

Icekatana

Active Member
Jul 9, 2017
592
2,138
You can't solve every problem by getting Katie out...
But who am I kidding, of course you can
Did anyone else think that Katie was actually Zoey at first? The blue hair highlights threw me off, so until they said her name, I thought it was Zoey.

I recall someone saying that Bella and Zoey "have always gotten along", so maybe we will see her later on. I hope we do.
 
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yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
2,770
18,569
Sadly you're still making scenarios inside your head even regarding my comment on this forum i haven't said anything about 70% of the things you just wrote.
That's fair. Since English is not my native language, I may have completely misunderstood your post and am drawing conclusions based on misunderstood premises. Would you be so kind as to help me understand what you wrote?

"I said in the beginning that why would he hire any help when the better visuals are more than enough to keep and to get more supporters, even without actual progression" - That was your statement.

Doesn't this statement contain a set of presuppositions?

1. Ocean makes no actual progression.
(progression in the story? Or maybe I misunderstood again and you meant some other progression, progression to his financial success, for example)

2. Ocean only works on improving the visual part.
(Otherwise, how should I understand the statement that he does not hire any help, since the better visual part is more than enough for his supporters to support him)

3. Ocean's supporters are only interested in better visuals.
(Otherwise better visuals wouldn't be enough for them, they would stop support a developer without any actual progression and he would hired a help to make the progression and attract supporters. Or this doesn't conclude from your statement?)

4. To make actual progression, Ocean needs to hire a help.
(Otherwise why would you counter the idea of help to the claim that he's not making actual progression?)

You see, I'm following your advice to read things more than once and make sure to understand them, before come up with an answer. :WeSmart:
 

Srimanta

Newbie
Aug 25, 2021
39
235
are there Epic avn? the answer is yes! . [City of Broken Dreamers] comes to mind.
with that said , the question you should ask is "are there well written avns ?", the answer is an emphatic HELL NO ! .
just remember that 99% of the avn creators are decent , good or pretty good at creating renders (images) and atmosphere
but they're not even decent writers , plus all the problems with translations because very often phrases and and conversations lose their intended meaning and context once they're translated to other languages.
hope i didn't bored you with all the semantics about your question.

View attachment 3923180
You summarised everything nicely.
Yes my phrasing probably wasn't well enough about what I was trying to say but to me if you are not a good enough writer then there's no way you can convence me that the characters and the story which you are trying to tell is epic just by plane visual.
Take the latest tv show "Rings of Power" for an example, the premise of show is this epic fantasy tale based on JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy but it horribly fail to convence,nither it engages the audience because of it's pathetic writing and lack of conviction .

And as you Mentioned City of Broken Dreamers, Which is a very well crafted avn and I thoroughly enjoyed the book 1 and it had lots of potential to become a dark gritty Sci Fi story but sadly Philly didn't took that route and I totally understand why he didn't , I'm sure most of the supporters wouldn't have enjoyed that kind story otherwise he could have dived deep into the corruption of the world and characters like Victoria and Henry .
But again it's still probably one of best AVN available and not to mention completed which is rare among AVN's and a great achievement for a Dev who not tonly finished his one game but two
 
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Dr.TSoni

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2022
1,528
4,980
You summarised everything nicely.
Yes my phrasing probably wasn't well enough about what I was trying to say but to me if you are not a good enough writer then there's no way you can convence me that the characters and the story which you are trying to tell is epic just by plane visual.
Take the latest tv show "Rings of Power" for an example, the premise of show is this epic fantasy tale based on JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy but it horribly fail to convence,nither it engages the audience because of it's pathetic writing and lack of conviction .
Personally I think the problem with Ocean's writing is that he can't keep his intrusive thoughts at bay. Which leads him to add more plots, and make it seem like it doesn't advance existing ones
Or at least this is my very humble opinion

Did anyone else think that Katie was actually Zoey at first? The blue hair highlights threw me off, so until they said her name, I thought it was Zoey.

I recall someone saying that Bella and Zoey "have always gotten along", so maybe we will see her later on. I hope we do.
I don't remember, also because when I first played that scene I wasn't very invested in WiAB.
But now she seems very recognizable to me
steauserimages-a.akamaihd.jpg Katie-3.png
 

SDDA

Member
Jun 21, 2017
121
272
Ocean's already teased Zara squishing herself against him in the hot tub, with something in her hand in another render? Questionable as to what the thing is. We also have renders of Nika infrom of Nami in the bathroom, down low, and renders of Mila that Ocean was cagey about because there was nudity. The question is how much of this will be in Ch1. I think there's a good chance almost every girl will have some sort of lewd scene in S2 somewhere. Sonja would be the only one that might move slower.



"Grey Smoking Vajayjay" sounds like the last game in the Oceanverse, with Summer alone in a nursing home chain smoking, remembering Wollust and her sexcapades away from there, telling her grand daughter about all the best ways to be a female MC without dealing with the dev's bullshit forced corruption paths. Solid!



You're saying all this like you've discovered a new continent. Pick a page in this thread, any page, years back, and you can probably find these sentiments on that page, mostly right before a release, or right after when a poster realises there is still no fap material. SG is still here and survives all the shade. But wait, pick a new 0.1 release in the latest games, and you can probably find someone asking when it'll be updated, even if the first public release was yesterday and they're the second poster: segs when, android? Compressed? etc!!!!!!! ...It's old. You haven't discovered whether Sasha is Summer, you haven't worked out who anyone's real dads in the game are. Instead, you're talking about project management errors. I play AVN's to get away from project management, so if that's your fun take away...

Speculation on the motivations of a dev are pointless, other than: they are either supporting their AVN passion with a well paying day job, or they have enough supporters to continue, or the game will fall into the abandoned category. Ocean's last couple of devlog's expressly mention that he has been looking to hire people. He's written about it many times at different points in the development, especially from ch3.5 onward I think. Some of the backdrops he got other artists to make for him. He pays for music rather than writing it himself. So what's your point? Ocean gets slammed for spending patron money on music licenses, then gets slammed for not hiring people? What makes me in my armchair a great project manager that knows whether this video card or this program or this combination of things, or these assets are worth buying?

Your actual unspoken point here is "Ocean should spend money on what I think would result in increased productivty". Except, he's been trying that, and it's not been working out. The coder for the phone who skipped. The proof readers who dropped the pile. This latest person who he paid for a course so Ocean could train them to do what he needs someone to do. He's doing all these things and they're not working out. Why? Maybe he's just to difficult to work with (I'd hate to work with a perfectionist, I'm too much of one myself in my professional world. I feel sorry for my clients). Or... maybe they don't have the passion to deliver what he's after; close enough is okay for them, but not what Ocean's willing to pay for. Who knows? I don't need to see his receipts or call logs.

What is obvious is that you don't enjoy the game, and you don't enjoy other people enjoying the game. Well, I'm going to enjoy it regardless, because he's continuing to develop it. If at some point I grow tired of waiting, I have heaps of other amusing things to do with my time. SG isn't as good as coffee for me, as much as I like it.
You guys are too much of a fanatics to have a conversation with sadly, 5 years of development and we are still at the introduction phase in both his games. Is this something the ppl who started supporting these games development actually expected in 2019? Wiab had 6 updates worth of content got cut off got reworked 2 times and now if you're lucky get 1 update per year. While SG which is more heavily focused on is tend to be finished in 2040. But let him be and don't dare raise negative comments about the development, cause you guys emerge to defend it.

" Pick a page in this thread, any page, years back, and you can probably find these sentiments on that page, mostly right before a release, or right after when a poster realises there is still no fap material. SG is still here and survives all the shade."

This is the problem you see, that for years we find these sentiments, cause its not a 0.1 release, but years work that some ppl ( not you guys appearently, cause you think everything is fine as it is) have expectations to.
 

Srimanta

Newbie
Aug 25, 2021
39
235
Personally I think the problem with Ocean's writing is that he can't keep his intrusive thoughts at bay. Which leads him to add more plots, and make it seem like it doesn't advance existing ones
Or at least this is my very humble opinion


I don't remember, also because when I first played that scene I wasn't very invested in WiAB.
But now she seems very recognizable to me
View attachment 3923526 View attachment 3923527
Ocean gets tons of criticism because of the rework which is totally unreasonable because the rework improved the game massively, and if anyone thinks otherwise then they are delusional .

I read this one specific complain again and again where a random guy will come and say Ocean will do another rework and the cycle of rework will never end, I think these people don't know but the game is reworked only once and the Dev himself stated that he'll never do it again then what's the problem?

Now let's talk about his writing ..

Let me clear one thing out of the way that ocean is not a professional writer and his writing skills are definitely questionable but there rarely is any decent writer in AVN community (the only AVN I have played where the writing is nothing but pure perfection is Leap of Faith but even Drifty himself will never gonna come up with another masterpiece like LoF, just look at U4ia and you would understand what I am talking about)

Ocean may not be a great writer but the guy knows how to choreograph and direct scenes, nobody shows character dynamics and banter between characters better than him, his taste of music is miles ahead of others and I love him for it.
 
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xCalon

Member
Mar 15, 2023
245
991
You guys are too much of a fanatics to have a conversation with sadly, 5 years of development and we are still at the introduction phase in both his games. Is this something the ppl who started supporting these games development actually expected in 2019? Wiab had 6 updates worth of content got cut off got reworked 2 times and now if you're lucky get 1 update per year. While SG which is more heavily focused on is tend to be finished in 2040. But let him be and don't dare raise negative comments about the development, cause you guys emerge to defend it.

" Pick a page in this thread, any page, years back, and you can probably find these sentiments on that page, mostly right before a release, or right after when a poster realises there is still no fap material. SG is still here and survives all the shade."

This is the problem you see, that for years we find these sentiments, cause its not a 0.1 release, but years work that some ppl ( not you guys appearently, cause you think everything is fine as it is) have expectations to.
You are a very special kind, aren't you?

Are you a paying member? If yes, who is forcing you to pay for something you visibly hate, despise, etc. If not, what is your point with arguing?

You literally wrote a wall of text, and arguing endlessly, - and it seems with everybody - just because you want to prove your point, or try to change other peoples opinion on Summer's Gone. Whether Summer's Gone is completed in 1, 5, or 10 years is completely irrelevant, because I have zero influence over it. Besides, I can't know if I'll still be alive in a few days or not. I don't worry about things I have no control over. But until then, - without any regrets - I will enjoy the first season, which is already available.

Apparently, it's so terrible and it's all so stuck in one place that I've put 110 hours into it since May just by accident. /s

My main problem is that you act as if no one but you noticed that the first season of Summer's Gone was not flawless, as if everyone was - literally - blind, stupid, ignorant. I'll help you, many of us are aware of its flaws, the only difference is that we find the first season enjoyable despite the flaws.
 

Winterstale

Member
Oct 3, 2018
164
931
Epic= "heroic or grand in scale or character"
I am going with this defination sir, maybe it has other meaning which I am not aware of.

And believe it or not but I have actually played Leap of Faith, what a shock right?
It felt more like a slice of life, romance visual novel instead of a epic journey written by Drifty.

But again who am I to think logically, I am just an insecure person who try to hard too be funny and still fail miserably :(

Anyways I am so sorry sweet sir for offending you, believe me it wasn't my intention.
Oh dear, it seems we're diving deep into the "what's epic and what's not" debate. Grab some popcorn, folks.

First off, let's unpack that definition of "epic." You mentioned "heroic or grand in scale or character." Spot on! But let's not limit our understanding here. An "epic" isn't just about larger-than-life heroes battling ancient evils in some grand saga. It's about emotional depth, character development, and a narrative that takes you on a journey - sometimes on the scale of the universe, and other times within the heart of a single person.

Now, as for AVNs, claiming that none could be considered "epic" is like saying no animated movie could ever be profound because it's "just cartoons." It all comes down to what you're looking for and, more importantly, what you define as meaningful.

Take Summers Gone, for instance. On the surface, it might not have the trappings of a traditional epic with sprawling quests and celestial battles, but it delves deeply into themes of nostalgia, loss, and personal growth. The emotional depth and complexity of its narrative can be considered epic in the sense of its impact and scope within the human experience.

Or how about Where It All Began? It might not fit your "heroic" mold, but it offers a deep narrative with intricate character relationships that evolve over time. The story is complex, the choices matter, and the emotional impact is real. That’s another form of epic - one that resonates on a deeply personal level rather than through sheer scale.

Now, I can't help but notice your self-deprecating tone, suggesting you're "just an insecure person." Let’s not be too hard on ourselves. Sarcasm and humor can be great tools for discussion, but they can also deflect from the real conversation. Instead of diminishing your perspective, let’s engage with it. Your insights are valid, but dismissing an entire genre because it doesn’t fit one narrow definition of "epic" might just be a tad shortsighted, don't you think?

So, when you label certain AVNs as lacking in epicness, it might be worth considering that the epic can manifest in subtler forms.
And before we write off the AVN community as incapable of delivering epic stories, let’s broaden our horizons. After all, epic isn’t just about what’s on the screen - it’s about what it makes you feel...
 

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,140
12,543
You guys are too much of a fanatics to have a conversation with sadly, 5 years of development and we are still at the introduction phase in both his games. Is this something the ppl who started supporting these games development actually expected in 2019? Wiab had 6 updates worth of content got cut off got reworked 2 times and now if you're lucky get 1 update per year. While SG which is more heavily focused on is tend to be finished in 2040. But let him be and don't dare raise negative comments about the development, cause you guys emerge to defend it.

" Pick a page in this thread, any page, years back, and you can probably find these sentiments on that page, mostly right before a release, or right after when a poster realises there is still no fap material. SG is still here and survives all the shade."

This is the problem you see, that for years we find these sentiments, cause its not a 0.1 release, but years work that some ppl ( not you guys appearently, cause you think everything is fine as it is) have expectations to.
Okay, so rather than discussing why Ocean is or isn't hiring people and why that's slowing him down or making him ineffective, and why should he if he's making bank with sweet ass renders (your own initial post), you're instead shifting the goal posts to blaming fans for the dev's behaviour. Who's the fanatic? You're just rehashing the same tired arguments about how long the dev time is. Well, sure, we know, we get it - no one in the thread actually would choose a longer dev time, but we get on with our lives while waiting. You've been here since 2017 and you're acting like this isn't a common thing in threads. Games that survive long dev times and still keep updating survive because ...enough people enjoy them.

So you don't enjoy SG, or you don't enjoy waiting for SG. You're in a rush and you don't like patience. I enjoy the game, and I can occupy myself by talking about the things I like about the game, speculate about the characters and the plot whatever. There's plenty of space for people to have different opinions, but here's one for you - fan's don't have to justify why they like something to anyone but themselves.

You haven't solved the SG rubix cube of conundrums, sorry. Either you like the game and you put up with how the process goes, or you throw your hands up in disgust and find a different game you can enjoy. No one here is really surprise about arguments about dev time, and you'd be surprised at how much smaller than zero the chances of Ocean ever reading your logic are. Go on his discord and talk with him if you're really wanting to light a fire under him and "hold him accountable" for the sake of every blue balled pirate in the 'zone. Just be prepared for what fanatics actually are like.

1.gif

I leave for one day and this thread goes into chaos mode...
Why don't you guys ever invite me to these rants?
I feel left out..
:cry:
Don't be sad, it goes in cycles, kinda like a counterpoint to the dev cycle. :coffee::whistle:
 
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SDDA

Member
Jun 21, 2017
121
272
You are a very special kind, aren't you?

Are you a paying member? If yes, who is forcing you to pay for something you visibly hate, despise, etc. If not, what is your point with arguing?

You literally wrote a wall of text, and arguing endlessly, - and it seems with everybody - just because you want to prove your point, or try to change other peoples opinion on Summer's Gone. Whether Summer's Gone is completed in 1, 5, or 10 years is completely irrelevant, because I have zero influence over it. Besides, I can't know if I'll still be alive in a few days or not. I don't worry about things I have no control over. But until then, - without any regrets - I will enjoy the first season, which is already available.

Apparently, it's so terrible and it's all so stuck in one place that I've put 110 hours into it since May just by accident. /s

My main problem is that you act as if no one but you noticed that the first season of Summer's Gone was not flawless, as if everyone was - literally - blind, stupid, ignorant. I'll help you, many of us are aware of its flaws, the only difference is that we find the first season enjoyable despite the flaws.
Yes its called arguing endlessly and with everybody when im only answering to those who quote my comment, btw its called a forum, where im free to prove my point and answer to those that reflect on the things i wrote, but you can go ahead and ignore it.
Btw who other than the fans have any say/control over the development. And just a que for you if you don't pay for something still can have an opinion about, even if the fanatics don't agree with you(cause you know its a pirate forum).
 

The Krogan Dude

Active Member
Sep 26, 2023
895
5,271
Ocean gets tons of criticism because of the rework which is totally unreasonable because the rework improved the game massively
Aesthetically yes. But the writing ? No on the contrary it got worse. Now, some of the dialogues make no sense, because they are related with elements that were removed and the removal of some cinematics made many scenes choppy and messy, like Nami punching Bella out of nowhere.
 
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