vampires69'in

Member
Mar 3, 2019
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Exactly, the yandere Nami is the best way to put it. THe question is if you play as a guardian angel, or if you put yourself within the limits of what Nika knows. Stories often have consequences that fall far from the tree - Nika will make the decisions that satisfy his knowledge, but can't compensate or account for all the repurcussions (even if he thinks he's a brilliant chess player). I hope the choices for some of these things are unfair choices with no immediate 'good' outcome. FOr the story to be about healing, the risk has to be the damage of further inflicted harm, or at least the failure to heal.

So many games talk about meaningful consequences, that I'd really like to see some. But I also think Ocean will force some bad circumstances/outcomes for the sake of the plot regardless of what we choose. I do believe that Nika growing protective rather than manipulative would be part of a great story to me - not only healing for himself, but seeing the difficulties of others as worth being involved in, and taking hits not meant for him - regardless of whether this is for a LI or just in the course of the canon plot.

Unfairness is a tool that will give a great emotional weight to the game, a sense of justice tells us what we want to protect about life, so it's a fairly important reflection to have such questions in the game.
I haven't really personally seen such meaningful consequences in games overall, sadly. cept... like dragon age:eek:rigins, mass effect kamidori alchemy meister lol. I would prefer such impactful choices woven in. I can also see some quality drama for it, :devilish:
drama.gif
 
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BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
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I haven't really personally seen such meaningful consequences in games overall, sadly. cept... like dragon age:eek:rigins, mass effect kamidori alchemy meister lol. I would prefer such impactful choices woven in. I can also see some quality drama for it, :devilish:
View attachment 4035196
yep, but I was thinking more like the witcher, where there is no real 'hero' choice; even when you chose something you feel to be the moral or even just political correct choice, the ramifications can be endless, setting off a chain of events that works against you. Even in hindsight, knowing the outcomes, I'd still choose what I did, because it was the only decision I could reconcile. That's the sort of drama I'd love to see, Nika not just chosing a LI but Nika chosing to say, come forward about the break in to clear Mila's name, resulting in him being booted from the team for being a criminal, jail time etc. Choices like that are more appealing to me than simply unlocking the lewd scenes once they happen.
 
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vampires69'in

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Mar 3, 2019
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yep, but I was thinking more like the witcher, where there is no real 'hero' choice; even when you chose something you feel to be the moral or even just political correct choice, the ramifications can be endless, setting off a chain of events that works against you. Even in hindsight, knowing the outcomes, I'd still choose what I did, because it was the only decision I could reconcile. That's the sort of drama I'd love to see, Nika not just chosing a LI but Nika chosing to say, come forward about the break in to clear Mila's name, resulting in him being booted from the team for being a criminal, jail time etc. Choices like that are more appealing to me than simply unlocking the lewd scenes once they happen.
I think that should be only an option. I can see that fucking up plenty, though. So I also doubt Ocean doing this. SO the amount of variance that would need to be accounted for.... I can't see it happening. But it's certainly fun to discuss it as a real possibility. Season 1 Nika seems far too closed lipped for this, but maybe something happens in season 2 that changes his mind. Providing him breaking in with Bella is made cannon vs optional that is. Although Bella will break in regardless and Mila will still be blamed.
 

BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
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I think that should be only an option. I can see that fucking up plenty, though. So I also doubt Ocean doing this. SO the amount of variance that would need to be accounted for.... I can't see it happening. But it's certainly fun to discuss it as a real possibility. Season 1 Nika seems far too closed lipped for this, but maybe something happens in season 2 that changes his mind. Providing him breaking in with Bella is made cannon vs optional that is. Although Bella will break in regardless and Mila will still be blamed.
That was just the first example that came to mind, but I'm sure there will be some form of moral dilemmas about situations we haven't come across yet. The consequnces of NIka's actions might or might not hit home regardless of his direct choices. People get upset when things don't go the way they expect as a player, but, you pointed out a bunch of great games that all have bad things happen as a result of choices - it makes the game challenging. The question is how much of a game does Ocean want to make it vs the pure story he wants to tell? I personally prefer these kinds of questions than decide what outfit a LI will wear.

Ocean can't use the line "Actions have consequences" for Nika in the locker room, and then avoid having consequences due to the player's moral compass. Well he can, I guess, but I'd prefer he gave weight to such a statement.
 

LHDLLB

Member
Oct 3, 2019
217
419
Exactly, the yandere Nami is the best way to put it. THe question is if you play as a guardian angel, or if you put yourself within the limits of what Nika knows. Stories often have consequences that fall far from the tree - Nika will make the decisions that satisfy his knowledge, but can't compensate or account for all the repurcussions (even if he thinks he's a brilliant chess player). I hope the choices for some of these things are unfair choices with no immediate 'good' outcome. FOr the story to be about healing, the risk has to be the damage of further inflicted harm, or at least the failure to heal.

So many games talk about meaningful consequences, that I'd really like to see some. But I also think Ocean will force some bad circumstances/outcomes for the sake of the plot regardless of what we choose. I do believe that Nika growing protective rather than manipulative would be part of a great story to me - not only healing for himself, but seeing the difficulties of others as worth being involved in, and taking hits not meant for him - regardless of whether this is for a LI or just in the course of the canon plot.

Unfairness is a tool that will give a great emotional weight to the game, a sense of justice tells us what we want to protect about life, so it's a fairly important reflection to have such questions in the game.
I think here we diverge of talking only of SG, I 100% agree with you and if we are talking only about a novel there is nothing that I would add, however this is a interative media and while I don't think that authors should limit themselves on the behalf of the player, I also don't think they should be careless with it, you should give as much control over the story and its character as possible. I am fine with chosen the lesser of two evils, with unfair choices and even with choices that we as player don't have enough information to make - you buy the burguer with the sweet or spyce sauce ?- and I am fine with bad outcomes as well, what I don't like is to be stripped down of a choice - here I am not talking about SG- in ordem to have a determined outcome.

About the Nami situation I also agree with you, to clarify my point I feel that if Nami never moves on from the MC even when being "exploit" by him a bad idea not because is in itself a bad narrative, but because in my eyes, given the nature of the story's theme such decisions should be punished, they should lead to a bad outcome to the Mc and have Nami as a spare pussy feels like a reward to a much darker story. In this sense I also agree with Nika growing protective, we have some of that in Vic story already, is a great story and think those choices that diverge from that are the choices that "should" lead to a bad outcome because they go against the story themes. Rewarding a Mc that becomes more selfish don't makes sense in a story that is about open up.

Unfairness is a great narrative tool - I still am not over Bambi's opening or Bridge to Terabithia ending- and in AVNs it can hit more harder because it can be a consequence of your actions that breed a unjust outcome, but still has to have a narrative sense to any unjustness otherwise it is just... I don't know, sadism. For what I can tell we pretty much agree, but we are approaching it from different angles.
 

vampires69'in

Member
Mar 3, 2019
262
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I think here we diverge of talking only of SG, I 100% agree with you and if we are talking only about a novel there is nothing that I would add, however this is a interative media and while I don't think that authors should limit themselves on the behalf of the player, I also don't think they should be careless with it, you should give as much control over the story and its character as possible. I am fine with chosen the lesser of two evils, with unfair choices and even with choices that we as player don't have enough information to make - you buy the burguer with the sweet or spyce sauce ?- and I am fine with bad outcomes as well, what I don't like is to be stripped down of a choice - here I am not talking about SG- in ordem to have a determined outcome.

About the Nami situation I also agree with you, to clarify my point I feel that if Nami never moves on from the MC even when being "exploit" by him a bad idea not because is in itself a bad narrative, but because in my eyes, given the nature of the story's theme such decisions should be punished, they should lead to a bad outcome to the Mc and have Nami as a spare pussy feels like a reward to a much darker story. In this sense I also agree with Nika growing protective, we have some of that in Vic story already, is a great story and think those choices that diverge from that are the choices that "should" lead to a bad outcome because they go against the story themes. Rewarding a Mc that becomes more selfish don't makes sense in a story that is about open up.

Unfairness is a great narrative tool - I still am not over Bambi's opening or Bridge to Terabithia ending- and in AVNs it can hit more harder because it can be a consequence of your actions that breed a unjust outcome, but still has to have a narrative sense to any unjustness otherwise it is just... I don't know, sadism. For what I can tell we pretty much agree, but we are approaching it from different angles.
Bambi I think was the movie beginning of using poor dead mothers as a plot device, lol. An amusing reflection often used in the AVN's...for some Landlady action lol. As for Bambi's death, yeah....that fucking still hurts. Doesn't help that it was beautifully animated. I forget this pain, remembering that in one of the James Bond movie both Bambi and Thumper are fine ass hench-women lol
 
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vampires69'in

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Mar 3, 2019
262
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That was just the first example that came to mind, but I'm sure there will be some form of moral dilemmas about situations we haven't come across yet. The consequnces of NIka's actions might or might not hit home regardless of his direct choices. People get upset when things don't go the way they expect as a player, but, you pointed out a bunch of great games that all have bad things happen as a result of choices - it makes the game challenging. The question is how much of a game does Ocean want to make it vs the pure story he wants to tell? I personally prefer these kinds of questions than decide what outfit a LI will wear.

Ocean can't use the line "Actions have consequences" for Nika in the locker room, and then avoid having consequences due to the player's moral compass. Well he can, I guess, but I'd prefer he gave weight to such a statement.
True...but I can't help but think it was there for a cool line. And ending with Nika possibly saying to his possible future strawhat member.... images (16).jpg
....it'd be both cooler and nerdier if I could find a gif of Luffy saying similar to Robin after she blew up a friend in one piece lol. well..he thought she did...
 
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Mamaragan

Member
Jun 9, 2019
304
1,180
With the change brought by Ocean, the game won't be as dark as it was supposed to be.
I think that it won't be at the level of what we'll see in WIAB, but it has potential. School rivalry we know can become nasty, family issues and secrets with the book club, Enemies with Ceril and the college Vanessa frequents, possible police corruption, illegal race, stupid games Bella and MC are playing with the holgersons, Mila's parent, Nami's manipulation, That journalist and her stupid rumors.

Actually, there's a lot Ocean can play with in the coming seasons.
 

LHDLLB

Member
Oct 3, 2019
217
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With the change brought by Ocean, the game won't be as dark as it was supposed to be.
I think that it won't be at the level of what we'll see in WIAB, but it has potential. School rivalry we know can become nasty, family issues and secrets with the book club, Enemies with Ceril and the college Vanessa frequents, possible police corruption, illegal race, stupid games Bella and MC are playing with the holgersons, Mila's parent, Nami's manipulation, That journalist and her stupid rumors.

Actually, there's a lot Ocean can play with in the coming seasons.
Yeah, there is much seed of conflict sowed through S1, one might even say too many, but one of the engaging qualities of Ocean writing beyond his character work is how he lay the foundations of his story, there is always something of interest happening and keeps you wanting to know how will it all fit, the downside is that the plot threat that you are interested in might have to wait a, few years to unfold. S1 raised many balls, now we have to see how well Ocean can juggling them. About SG/WiaB is not that SG can not go to darker areas, I don't doubt it will, in my mind is more about the approach SG I think is more about facing your demons and move on, while WiaB is about facing your demons and maybe become one yourself.
 

vampires69'in

Member
Mar 3, 2019
262
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Yeah, there is much seed of conflict sowed through S1, one might even say too many, but one of the engaging qualities of Ocean writing beyond his character work is how he lay the foundations of his story, there is always something of interest happening and keeps you wanting to know how will it all fit, the downside is that the plot threat that you are interested in might have to wait a, few years to unfold. S1 raised many balls, now we have to see how well Ocean can juggling them. About SG/WiaB is not that SG can not go to darker areas, I don't doubt it will, in my mind is more about the approach SG I think is more about facing your demons and move on, while WiaB is about facing your demons and maybe become one yourself.
......or fucking them :KEK:

Lyrics of Bummer by Monster Magnet
verse
You're looking for the one who fucked your mom
It's not me
It's not me
verse
You're looking for the one who made you cry
That's not me
It's not me
verse
If you wanna stuff your garbage in that hole
Oh, baby I'm your man of the hour
verse
You think the world's got the evil eye on you
That's not true
That's not true
verse
The only one I see causing major pain
Is just you
It's just you
chorus
If you wanna spank your demons and make 'em pay
Then baby I'm your man of the hour
verse
Some people go to bed with Lucifer
Then they cry when they don't greet the day with God
 
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Enlight432

Active Member
Jan 4, 2024
599
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Nika is my favorite mc among the hundreds of games I have played, In most games, the reason why several girls fall in love with the main character is either illogical or never explained, but in this game, the player is absolutely convinced that the main character deserves it
 

RNasc4444

Active Member
Aug 16, 2022
833
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Nika is my favorite mc among the hundreds of games I have played, In most games, the reason why several girls fall in love with the main character is either illogical or never explained, but in this game, the player is absolutely convinced that the main character deserves it
Really??? I feel exactly the opposite. In most games the MC's are often portrayed as straight up attractive, successful, powerful or fairly wealthy which is naturally appealing to the LI's. It's boring and played out but it makes sense for the most part.

Why everyone loves SG's MC is a mystery to me. A pale, "hobo looking" shut-in with poor social skills and a manipulative nature, that approaches every conversation with a blunt dickishness. Dude's 10x worse than Vanessa. And yet somehow everyone seems drawn to him even when he treats them like garbage.

It's so off-putting watching sweet naive and innocent Vic watch him be an asshole and still treat him warmly. Even though I'd consider him a decent person, he projects a far less sympathetic persona.

So yeah, I gotta disagree. To me watching everyone swoon over himis about as realistic as his muscle growth with 2 gym visits...
 

White cat6

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Jan 21, 2024
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Really??? I feel exactly the opposite. In most games the MC's are often portrayed as straight up attractive, successful, powerful or fairly wealthy which is naturally appealing to the LI's. It's boring and played out but it makes sense for the most part.

Why everyone loves SG's MC is a mystery to me. A pale, "hobo looking" shut-in with poor social skills and a manipulative nature, that approaches every conversation with a blunt dickishness. Dude's 10x worse than Vanessa. And yet somehow everyone seems drawn to him even when he treats them like garbage.

It's so off-putting watching sweet naive and innocent Vic watch him be an asshole and still treat him warmly. Even though I'd consider him a decent person, he projects a far less sympathetic persona.

So yeah, I gotta disagree. To me watching everyone swoon over himis about as realistic as his muscle growth with 2 gym visits...
Nika is special. He inherited from his father, if you can call it that, a monstrous body regeneration, due to which his muscles recover after a small load. His second feature is a monstrous sexual attractiveness. In fact, in this regard, he is an analogue of Sasha. Only she attracts men, and he attracts women. That is why they flock to him like bees to honey.
 

BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
1,463
7,899
I think here we diverge of talking only of SG, I 100% agree with you and if we are talking only about a novel there is nothing that I would add, however this is a interative media and while I don't think that authors should limit themselves on the behalf of the player, I also don't think they should be careless with it, you should give as much control over the story and its character as possible. I am fine with chosen the lesser of two evils, with unfair choices and even with choices that we as player don't have enough information to make - you buy the burguer with the sweet or spyce sauce ?- and I am fine with bad outcomes as well, what I don't like is to be stripped down of a choice - here I am not talking about SG- in ordem to have a determined outcome.

About the Nami situation I also agree with you, to clarify my point I feel that if Nami never moves on from the MC even when being "exploit" by him a bad idea not because is in itself a bad narrative, but because in my eyes, given the nature of the story's theme such decisions should be punished, they should lead to a bad outcome to the Mc and have Nami as a spare pussy feels like a reward to a much darker story. In this sense I also agree with Nika growing protective, we have some of that in Vic story already, is a great story and think those choices that diverge from that are the choices that "should" lead to a bad outcome because they go against the story themes. Rewarding a Mc that becomes more selfish don't makes sense in a story that is about open up.

Unfairness is a great narrative tool - I still am not over Bambi's opening or Bridge to Terabithia ending- and in AVNs it can hit more harder because it can be a consequence of your actions that breed a unjust outcome, but still has to have a narrative sense to any unjustness otherwise it is just... I don't know, sadism. For what I can tell we pretty much agree, but we are approaching it from different angles.
Oh yes, I think we're mostly on the same page. I'm not for stripping away choices, but we make choices based on what we think we know - ie the chicken burger choice ideal is bot terrible and great in a way. It's a choice where we can't know the outcome. Make it a less flippant choice where the character has to choose between (metaphorically) pepsi or coke, and suddenly the character has forgotten about water. That's the kind of choices that I like, one where the outcomes feel uncertain. But it is a risk, because it can feel meaningless if done as poorly as the chicken burger in WiaB.

It's like Nika chooses to go to the gym alone and meets Robin and Sasha, but what he learns from them is mutually exclusive from what he learns if he goes with Nami or Mila. In Nami's case, we find out Nia knew something about Summer, well before CH5. If Nika goes to the Holgerson raid, then he doesn't find out Couch Hill has been watching his progress from before Summer disappeared. There's all these choices where there are outcomes that are contingent on the choice, but unrelated specifically - the choice positions Nika in a new situation, which leads to different events. The chikcen burger is bad, because there is literally no reason to choose one over the other, while these choices in SG do have a reason to differentiate.

I am just thinking that the consequences of the choice can be escalated, and riskier. I'm sure it'll happen.
 
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Dr.TSoni

Active Member
May 20, 2022
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Why everyone loves SG's MC is a mystery to me. A pale, "hobo looking" shut-in with poor social skills and a manipulative nature, that approaches every conversation with a blunt dickishness. Dude's 10x worse than Vanessa. And yet somehow everyone seems drawn to him even when he treats them like garbage.

It's so off-putting watching sweet naive and innocent Vic watch him be an asshole and still treat him warmly. Even though I'd consider him a decent person, he projects a far less sympathetic persona.
The real question is how is Amber von Halen supposed to fall madly in love with this tool?
 

RNasc4444

Active Member
Aug 16, 2022
833
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The real question is how is Amber von Halen supposed to fall madly in love with this tool?
She'll do what almost every other woman does. "Fix" their man. I know because I've been a "work in progress" for a few women now since the day I was born :ROFLMAO:

But seriously one of the reasons why I've liked Bella and Maja from the start is because they are antagonistic towards the MC at first. That makes sense to me. Mila's and Vic's fondness towards him on the other hand, is a little difficult to believe.

Overall I'll admit the MC grew on me with time. I'm a sucker for devotion. The minute he made clear Nami and Nojiko were "his people" and he wasn't gonna tolerate anyone or anything messing with them was when he changed my mind. He still acts like a douchebag but he isn't a bad person at all.

EDIT: I still maintain that toning his character down did him no favors. The panic attack shit is laughably bad and probably the main reason why I will never fully like him. I much preferred his depiction prior to these changes.
 
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