- Thread starter 7767
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- Feb 23, 2021
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Oceanlab of course no one should abandon his less successful child, but more successful one should not be dragged down either.
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Quality has it's price, I'd rather wait than have a rushed one. His games are the excellency of the excellents, top notch, fun to play/read and good to look at. No one wants a bugy mess full of plotholes, weird animations or images.
- Feb 21, 2021
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that is way too much logic for some people here, im sure they will still shit talk. this is so right though, so many people go straight to that game as a comparison. Too many are simple minded with things and just cant see the bigger picture.
- Feb 21, 2021
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exactly, theres a few games here that i wont mention that ill see updated, ill go download thinking its got a lot of new content because its been 2+months and there is about 10 minutes worth of content.. id much rather wait and get more out of it.
Yes it is more disappointing if you download a new update, delete the old one and bring the save data over only for a few more lines or images of gameplay. Which results in taking more time to set it all up than the actual progress in form of gameplay...
- May 13, 2020
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And? They both use writing practices employed across all genres. Dialogue, coherence, plot, conflict, etc. The fact that they're in different genres is only relevant when it comes to their narrative structure and their dramatic structure. Their themes, amongst other things, are obviously different, but this does not mean that we cannot compare how they guide their audiences throughout these themes. H.P Lovecraft is constantly compared to many famous writers throughout history, despite his origins in the genre of cosmic horror. If we allowed the boundaries of genre to limit our discussions when it came to narrative practices, we'd have never progressed in literature. But to keep on track, Ocean does a better job of engaging with his audience and capturing their focus(amongst other things). He also does a better job(albeit slightly) at pure storytelling. DPC is still one of the best writers on this site, but he is not the best in all aspects. COBD is currently the best when it comes to setting its story, as it currently has the best atmosphere of all AVNs currently on the site(though it is challenged by games like Eternum and Artemis). I never fully compared their plots due to them being different aspects of the same subgenre. But if it was purely a comparison of plot formation and audience engagement, Oceanlab would edge out DPC.
I mean no disrespect when I ask, who made you the great decider on how long an author's story should be? Or when their story should conclude its introduction and venture out into its body? I'll say one thing. At the end of the day, this is art, and every artist moves at their own pace. I'm certain you would not have liked any of the top AVNs were they rushed or mishandled. But it seems like that's exactly what some of you people want to see happen to Summer's Gone.
Most of the audience loves this plot as it is. Have you seen what happens when an author rushes their projects due to pressure from their audience? I'll say to you here what I've said to everyone else with a similar outlook. Do not support this game if you're unwilling to be in it for the long haul. If you dislike what's happening as far as development, then leave(no one's stopping you).
Every single update has moved the plot forward. Every single update has made the player feel emotions. Every single update has progressed the story in many ways. I'm not really sure where you were going with any of that. Most people here have felt all of the above.
The only people complaining about the basketball game are people who don't care for the story. Oceanlab has said time and time again that sports is an essential part of the overall story, yet somehow there are still people complaining about its inclusion. It amazes me that these people can somehow see ahead in the future and relay back to us that the basketball game is not needed. It amazes me that those people know the story enough to decide what should be in it and what should not. Just how many of you guys glossed over the part where there'd be a sports competition? Lol
In the end, the only people that truly believe that this was a filler episode, are the ones that never paid that much attention to begin with. I'm actually a bit surprised that so many people agreed with you lol.
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- Feb 21, 2021
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I love when some come here and are like "people are mad at this and that" most that come here love this game, love everything about it and are willing to wait for updates and dont complain.
they use other games and say oh this intro is too long or it takes too long to progress this and that, i genuinely dont think it does at all.. i think the ones who say this are so used to these games where the characters are fucking within 10 minutes. there is legit nothing wrong with that btw if thats you, go play them games and have fun.. ive played loads of games like that but are they in my top ones? hell no.. the games that stick out to me the most and the ones i look forward to are the slow burn with great storys. if your character goes and fucks a girl within 10 mins, after a few times it loses all meaning, its boring to me. just like IRL i have never gone for the easy girl, its a put off and its not fun..
games that build up the story, introduce all of these characters, a lot of them with a deep story behind them, its impossible to do it justice without it being a long drawn out intro.. games where there is deep problems from peoples pasts, deep problems within them right now.. they are not just going to just jump on eachother.. the build up is everything and if its done right it can create something special, if any of that is rushed it can legit ruin the whole game and story imo.
if slow burn is not for you, if storys that take a while to build up and get into action or anything like that is not for you then just go and find the ones that you enjoy.. dont be that person that comes to complain and say exactly what you want and expect it to change just for you because its legit selfish as fuck. at that point you dont care about the 90% who enjoy it you care about you. There are so many games here that are not my type and you wont see me comment in any of them, i respect the people that make them and respect the people that like them.. maybe the ones that do this are younger and need to realise and learn a few things idk.
they use other games and say oh this intro is too long or it takes too long to progress this and that, i genuinely dont think it does at all.. i think the ones who say this are so used to these games where the characters are fucking within 10 minutes. there is legit nothing wrong with that btw if thats you, go play them games and have fun.. ive played loads of games like that but are they in my top ones? hell no.. the games that stick out to me the most and the ones i look forward to are the slow burn with great storys. if your character goes and fucks a girl within 10 mins, after a few times it loses all meaning, its boring to me. just like IRL i have never gone for the easy girl, its a put off and its not fun..
games that build up the story, introduce all of these characters, a lot of them with a deep story behind them, its impossible to do it justice without it being a long drawn out intro.. games where there is deep problems from peoples pasts, deep problems within them right now.. they are not just going to just jump on eachother.. the build up is everything and if its done right it can create something special, if any of that is rushed it can legit ruin the whole game and story imo.
if slow burn is not for you, if storys that take a while to build up and get into action or anything like that is not for you then just go and find the ones that you enjoy.. dont be that person that comes to complain and say exactly what you want and expect it to change just for you because its legit selfish as fuck. at that point you dont care about the 90% who enjoy it you care about you. There are so many games here that are not my type and you wont see me comment in any of them, i respect the people that make them and respect the people that like them.. maybe the ones that do this are younger and need to realise and learn a few things idk.
- Dec 23, 2018
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Don't wanna talk about this subject because i already did it in WIAB thread. But i'm stupid so fuck it, here i go: At the current pace of 1 "full" chapter (1 half-chapter + 1 half-chapter) per year and with 26 chapters left to release after chapter 4, the math is simple: SG will be completed just in 2048, 26 years from now. Not "a while". Not a few or some years. But more than a quarter of a century. And despite the whole high-quality that SG promisses deliver, this is simply bad for many reasons. First because we, either players and devs, are not immortal vampires that will live and be young forever. Second and more critical is that neither SG and WIAB are the only games that Ocean wanna make. He already told that this "zane-universe" will have another 3 games that he will not start develop until SG and WIAB are finished.
What he can make to change that is not a mystery for anyone, although nothing simple to achieve: release faster to decrease the estimated time to finish. It still can take long simply because the story is long. Just to put in perspective, even with 4 half chapters released per year the game will take 13 years to finish. Still a lot of years but already way better than 26. Maybe comeback to release full chapters instead of half-chapters without increase release time. Or even rewrite the story to fit in less than 30 chapters, but i think humans will colonize Mars before Ocean even think about that
I admire and respect Ocean's work. I understand how hard is make a VN, even more one like SG and WIAB. I wish he make all the games he wanna make, the way he wanna make and get all the succes he can get. I really don't want sound a hater, whining or put pressure on him and i'm sorry beforehand if i did that. I know that he have made huge improvements in the way he develop both games. But time is a critical issue. Time doesn't stop or wait for anyone and our time is limited. And i can't not worry sometimes that Ocean's games are to ambitious for one person achieve in a lifetime.
What he can make to change that is not a mystery for anyone, although nothing simple to achieve: release faster to decrease the estimated time to finish. It still can take long simply because the story is long. Just to put in perspective, even with 4 half chapters released per year the game will take 13 years to finish. Still a lot of years but already way better than 26. Maybe comeback to release full chapters instead of half-chapters without increase release time. Or even rewrite the story to fit in less than 30 chapters, but i think humans will colonize Mars before Ocean even think about that
I admire and respect Ocean's work. I understand how hard is make a VN, even more one like SG and WIAB. I wish he make all the games he wanna make, the way he wanna make and get all the succes he can get. I really don't want sound a hater, whining or put pressure on him and i'm sorry beforehand if i did that. I know that he have made huge improvements in the way he develop both games. But time is a critical issue. Time doesn't stop or wait for anyone and our time is limited. And i can't not worry sometimes that Ocean's games are to ambitious for one person achieve in a lifetime.
- Aug 5, 2016
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Yeah, the 30 chapters schedule seems crazy for sure but we don't know what can happen in the future.Don't wanna talk about this subject because i already did it in WIAB thread. But i'm stupid so fuck it, here i go: At the current pace of 1 "full" chapter (1 half-chapter + 1 half-chapter) per year and with 26 chapters left to release after chapter 4, the math is simple: SG will be completed just in 2048, 26 years from now. Not "a while". Not a few or some years. But more than a quarter of a century. And despite the whole high-quality that SG promisses deliver, this is simply bad for many reasons. First because we, either players and devs, are not immortal vampires that will live and be young forever. Second and more critical is that neither SG and WIAB are the only games that Ocean wanna make. He already told that this "zane-universe" will have another 3 games that he will not start develop until SG and WIAB are finished.
What he can make to change that is not a mystery for anyone, although nothing simple to achieve: release faster to decrease the estimated time to finish. It still can take long simply because the story is long. Just to put in perspective, even with 4 half chapters released per year the game will take 13 years to finish. Still a lot of years but already way better than 26. Maybe comeback to release full chapters instead of half-chapters without increase release time. Or even rewrite the story to fit in less than 30 chapters, but i think humans will colonize Mars before Ocean even think about that
I admire and respect Ocean's work. I understand how hard is make a VN, even more one like SG and WIAB. I wish he make all the games he wanna make, the way he wanna make and get all the succes he can get. I really don't want sound a hater, whining or put pressure on him and i'm sorry beforehand if i did that. I know that he have made huge improvements in the way he develop both games. But time is a critical issue. Time doesn't stop or wait for anyone and our time is limited. And i can't not worry sometimes that Ocean's games are to ambitious for one person achieve in a lifetime.
Being optimistic new software or hardware can speed development time significantly in the future. Maybe Ocean will hire a malaysian crypto farm to help with his renders, who knows?
Being pessimistic there will be another remake in a couple of years because the quality standards are gonna be much higher than they are now. Side note, this is why remakes are a bad idea before completion of the project.
In any case he's the dev and he should do what he wants with his projects. Even if the task at hand is like painting the Sistine Chapel with a toothbrush.
- May 13, 2020
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I'll also say to this what I've been wanting to say to everyone else with this outlook. This view would have been a credible one were we to go based on the assumption that Oceanlab would not improve in any aspect, and continue to release updates at the same pace on a yearly basis. This outlook was formed off of the belief that Oceanlab cannot make any improvements, and thus will not ever improve from the 1 update per year development rate. I personally believe that is quite a flawed view, as Oceanlab has shown and proven that he is the kind of person to put any and all support to good use. He is always searching for avenues to improve for us(his audience). Assuming this next update were to be brought forth sometime this month, or early May, it won't be that far-fetched to hold the belief that he can bring forth another update before the year is finished. Oceanlab is only human. He's made some mistakes, sure, but people are acting like he cannot improve(or has not improved already since Summer's Gone chapter 1). All he's done since taking on Summer's Gone as a serious project is to make improvements. He's not just wasting away the funds. But given what some people are saying, you'd swear that were the case lol.Don't wanna talk about this subject because i already did it in WIAB thread. But i'm stupid so fuck it, here i go: At the current pace of 1 "full" chapter (1 half-chapter + 1 half-chapter) per year and with 26 chapters left to release after chapter 4, the math is simple: SG will be completed just in 2048, 26 years from now. Not "a while". Not a few or some years. But more than a quarter of a century. And despite the whole high-quality that SG promisses deliver, this is simply bad for many reasons. First because we, either players and devs, are not immortal vampires that will live and be young forever. Second and more critical is that neither SG and WIAB are the only games that Ocean wanna make. He already told that this "zane-universe" will have another 3 games that he will not start develop until SG and WIAB are finished.
What he can make to change that is not a mystery for anyone, although nothing simple to achieve: release faster to decrease the estimated time to finish. It still can take long simply because the story is long. Just to put in perspective, even with 4 half chapters released per year the game will take 13 years to finish. Still a lot of years but already way better than 26. Maybe comeback to release full chapters instead of half-chapters without increase release time. Or even rewrite the story to fit in less than 30 chapters, but i think humans will colonize Mars before Ocean even think about that
I admire and respect Ocean's work. I understand how hard is make a VN, even more one like SG and WIAB. I wish he make all the games he wanna make, the way he wanna make and get all the succes he can get. I really don't want sound a hater, whining or put pressure on him and i'm sorry beforehand if i did that. I know that he have made huge improvements in the way he develop both games. But time is a critical issue. Time doesn't stop or wait for anyone and our time is limited. And i can't not worry sometimes that Ocean's games are to ambitious for one person achieve in a lifetime.
It's getting a bit funny for me how often I've had to repeat this sentiment, but if people are unwilling to see this game as a long-term investment, then they should save themselves the time and move on. Most people complaining, are complaining due to them liking this AVN, but being too impatient to wait for the author's updates. They love the game but hate the development period. A family member of mine wanted a video game called Cyberpunk 2077. He always expressed how it would have been the best sci-fi game ever and whatnot. Then all of a sudden he stopped bringing it up. When I'd asked him about it, it was because both the audience and the development company made the studio rush their work. What came was not the same work of art that everyone had seemingly been anticipating, but a rather huge let-down that crushed the hopes of many. It's sad too because I actually wanted the game lol. These updates will come when they're ready, not when you(speaking generally) think they should be ready. If you guys(speaking generally) cannot handle that, then it's better for you to move on. But do not come here and complain about something that you're probably obtaining for free, anyway.
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- Oct 22, 2017
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I do not understand why you are hung up on these ominous thirty chapters. Anyone who has not gone through life without their eyes closed should have learned by now that nothing in life is as hot as it is cooked.
- Feb 21, 2021
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legit said this same thing here so much now, i dont get how they dont see it. they base everything on the pace before even though ocean said himself that he can do more now than last year.. its like they think the current pace will never improve, or its impossible that they end up with more support which they can use to get more hardware/software or hire help.. if only people could look at shit from different angles insead of tunnel vision.
- Feb 21, 2021
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lol i dont get this logic, why would someone wait until chapter 30 to remake if they are at chapter 5 or something? lets say you make a game, you're not completely happy with the story and the art and you want to maybe tweak the story or change all the art... you would wait until chapter 30 to do that? that would be the biggest waste of time ever and also would demotivate the person making it beyond a joke. i get it, you want a full game to play.. but that doesnt mean the guy has to torture himself to get to 30 just to make it all over again.. if you remake at 6 you only have to do 6 again, if you wait until 30 you have to remake 30.. please use logic.
- Aug 5, 2016
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lmao it's not rocket science. If you are constantly redoing things because you're never happy with the results you will never finish anything. It's a vicious circle.
I ain't gonna talk about names but I know of some games that have been trapped in development hell just like that. Dev adds a new couple of updates and goes back to redo story or renders. It's a neverending tale.
Well, the thing is this is not life, this is a VN. Everyone has followed some series in tv, novels, videogames and so on. So yeah, you want a story with a beginning and an ending or several in videogames cases. If you're telling me that this VN is a life project that Ocean's grandchildren will keep making, that's fine, but I doubt many will want that but who knows.
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- Feb 21, 2021
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if you kept going back to redo it yes, but this has only happened once.. idk if he has changed any story when redoing because its only been one episode but he could of seen holes in the original story he wanted to do, regardless it still makes no sense to finish the game when you are not even that far into it just to remake the whole thing. its the biggest waste of time and makes no sense.
ofcourse some people here would want that because you want to play the whole game, but its clear how much he has improved from the old version of his game to the new one, it makes a lot of sense for him to want to bring that into this one and do it right. a lot of people download a game and will judge from the start if they want to play it, you want your best work from the start.
- Jun 11, 2021
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Both views are flawd if you ask me, there's no certainty that things will or will not improve but as of rn it's weighing towards the latter because Ocean cares more about the quality of his work than anything else, which i respect. As an artist myself there's nothing more inspiring than seeing someone excel at their preferred art but for this game it comes at a cost unfortunately. You have your argument that Ocean has improved when it comes to release times and you have your argument that it hasn't, neither is incorrect and neither is correct either but for me personally I don't see much improvement in that regard. Quality yes there's a fucking huge improvement but we still getting 1 update a year since the release of the game back in 2019? It's 2022 now and that hasn't changed. You can say "oh but Detroit the updates are much longer now" and you are correct but tell me how much story progression has there actually been? It's what 3 years and we still don't know much about the story or the characters. And Usually that wouldn't be a bad thing, slow burns and all but it doesn't work when the release times are slow burns itself lol and then throw in basketball and fantasy games for whatever reason and once again little story progression. Like Ocean said himself, we've literally just gotten out of the introduction phase and that took like 3 years, it's crazy if you think about it because we haven't even tapped into the main story yet. The first 3 years were practically just to introduce us to the characters and the idea of the story but as I said even then we still dont know much about any of the characters aside from their personalities. I think we're about 2 weeks into the game (maybe) because Bella mentioned in the gym that she only know the MC for a few days, that's between ch1 and ch 3. So that means for like 2 or 3 years of development we are probably only a week into the game, that's crazy.
So with that I think it's fair for people to have the notion that not much will change going forward,im not saying it's correct or incorrect but it's a plausible assumption based on what we've seen and the fact that he has another game of the same quality he's also working on. Of course we all hope that things will improve and they just might, but until we see some actual improvements there's not much to argue against because rn opinions stating other wise are based on hope. It's kinda like religion lol neither is right and neither is wrong but facts remain facts.
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- Feb 21, 2021
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He showed his numbers recently in how many renders he can create per day compared to what he used to be able to do and its a lot more than it was, so that backs up what i said about that. My argument to the other guy was more that he cant predict to the end of the game in the amount of time it will take accurately when he is using old info to do it, not considering the fact that he has improved on certain aspects already and could upgrade his own set up or get better software that helps. recently ocean has mentioned the animation software he likes which would improve it even further. Obviously anything can happen but i cant see how he would end up slower, its a lot more logical to think that he will get quicker with it.. regardless idc about the time it takes tbh, its just annoying to see the constant "its going to take 25 years to play this" if they feel like that then why even play it? when they say the 25 year thing they are acting like its facts when its far from it.
With the basketball thing i dont even consider that as a side thing, main story points and a lot of character development can come from that, lets say the mc ends up on the team, its going to be a part of the story.. it could be a way where certain relationships form so i dont see that as a pointless thing.. the tabletop game i dont care about, but he wants it in the game and some might be looking forward to it so im not going to complain, its his vision so ill go with it.
story progression wise you say we are this far in with no real story progression, there is a lot of characters, when you are doing a story like this and its deep story wise it cant be rushed, you need to meet the characters and see a lot about them and get to know them. theres many games where you meet a character and you see a paragraph about them and thats it... they move on with the story and you dont feel anything towards them, its just another basic game.. you will not be as invested in the characters when its done like that.. for me its simple, if people dont like waiting and dont like how long its taking to get into the story just simply move on. i personally love games that go deep on characters and dont mind waiting because i would rather see it done right than rushed. you are not going to meet a complicated character like bella and know everything about her in a hour, it just doesnt work like that.
- Nov 28, 2017
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I liked this thread more when it was about waifu wars
- Jun 11, 2021
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I 100% agree with everything you are saying and I can respect your view, as I said neither is wrong or right. And yes assuming the game will never improve is foolish of course, it definitely will improve how much we or not certain. It could take years before there's any actual improvement with the release times so I can kinda get why he jumped the gun. But in that same regard Ocean could win the lottery tomorrow and get the financial backing needed to get those updates out faster at an even higher quality, nothing is certain.
And perhaps the basketball stuff will be part of the main story we don't know that yet. But I highly doubt the fantasy stuff could play any serious role in the main story, it's just there to show off the characters in a fantasy setting as someone stated before. but like you I dont care or mind having it in the game but it comes at the cost of story progression and that sucks. I'm big on story building, I hate rushed games or brainless pornography based games, Summers gone is one of the few that I can actually say is not a porn game and that's a big plus in my books. But biting off more than you can chew is a reality for most devs and having so many characters which took years to be introduced is wicked and we can only assume that it'll take years before the MC actually builds something with them. So far it's just been Bella, we've spend a lot of time with and getting to know her, seeds have been sown with that kiss but aside from that and the beginning of CH 3.5 she wasn't seen again for the rest of the chapter. Which is okay cause now we can focus on another character but that didn't happen either, we had no progression with any of the other characters aside from Mila telling the MC a lil bit about her personal life. It's been years and so far we only know a little bit about Bella and Milla and buggaral about the rest. Then you throw in basketball which at best could be a side story and that took up half if not more than half of 3.5. Instead during that time there could've been more progression with the main story and characters,not Juicebox almost getting fingered by some dude lol.
Side note I love all those little details, I love everything Ocean is doing with this game, as I I said before in a previous comment, all those side stuff will be great once the game is completed and will be a nice break from the main story and main girls. Its funny to see all the Chad's trying to out Chad each other lol but there's no certainty that we'll ever reach the finishing line so the safer bet would be to push the main story forward and have the side stuff at minimum at best and not take up half the update. Of course it's just my opinion some will agree some won't, nobody is wrong at the end of the day.
I just personally feel like we should know lot more about the characters at this point seeing that it's been 3 years and Ocean said the introduction was to get to know the characters.