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Mamaragan
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Ahx
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I hear ya, and I agree, Ocean went all-in with that global criminal empire, making it tough to take seriously.
Rest assured, SG won’t go down that road. It’s not turning into a mafia-style VN. Nika and the crew might deal with some part of it poking around, but they’ll sort it out and move on, keeping things grounded.
Besides, Ocean wouldn't dare making TWO Mafia themed VN.
Now that we're talking about Mafia. I remember this thread used to have one. Haha. They were called... The Bellamites!
I wonder where they are now. lol
It'll take a while. 5 more months, give or take. The reason being "huge update with 8000+ renders".
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Dr.TSoni
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Mamaragan
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WIAB has always been a criminal themed VN. I genuinely don't understand where all of this “BuT iTs MaFiA ItS Bad” come from. The old WIAB is still downloadable, play it and see for yourself.
Also, 20 fucking years passed between those two games, a lot changed. The so-called "mafia" element is going to be background noise, or maybe a minor intrigue in the future, for example the gay barber still being connected to the black market and looking for Nika's background "just in case".
SG is a college themed VN. The majority of the plot will be healing, college rivalry, sports, sex, romance and shit like that. It has no place for a major Mafia or criminal underworld plot.
Dr.TSoni
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Let's put it this way
If I were to write a story about a group of co-workers, I would introduce a certain dynamic between the characters. Now after implementing that dynamic I decide to change it and now they are a group of friends, but beyond calling them such I don't change anything about their interactions; thus creating a disonance.
This is the problem with WiaB
i think you're applying logic where logic doesnt apply.
everything is fine with a consistent theme and/or story... but this isnt consistent.
it had ELEMENTS of some crime/mob style shite, now it has ONLY that, basically. thats the whole problem.
i dont remember one whole scene when something shady WASNT going on.
and one could argue that its not what all of us freeloaders had expected and we're just angry, freeloading basement dwellers... but i dont really see it being the case since there are SO SO many of these basement dwellers at this point. bit too many imho.
Mamaragan
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Take your issue to Patreon.
I'm sure you've noticed the retardation in recent years about different kind of fetishes between Patreon crackdown on incest, bestiality, hypno sex, basically every type of sex where consent might be questionable. Or Pixiv and their crackdown on loli, bestiality, rape, and so on. I understand where you come from, but if I was a creator and was dependent on business like Patreon to make money, I'll do everything to make sure no surprise come back at me in the future, even if it means making changes to my story.
Dude. The game barely started. Respectfully, you don't know how it's going to progress. Yes, Mafia/crime will be central. But so was the old wiab. Just a question. What did you think WIAB was all about? I'm curious
Dr.TSoni
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I don't mean to blame him for this, but looking at his record Patreons is at fault up to a certain point. Considering that my problem with his new dynamics would be easily solved with a few lines of text, it was enough to show that Helen and Dylan were against killing them as children and "recruited" them to save them by treating them like children in every other respect other than that of adopting them so as not to arouse the suspicion of other families
Crashbullet
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Whoever tries to sit on two chairs at once will end up sitting on neither. WIAB isn’t even on Patreon anymore—why change things so clumsily and lose the fanbase? I refunded my money on Steam and won’t support this anymore. Was it worth it? Season 8 of Game of Thrones proves it wasn’t. Other games that include incest have different revenue sources + Steam. Does someone want to make ALL the money? Just remove mentions of mother, father, sister, brother—no one would’ve said a word. But instead, he deliberately does a backflip and breaks his own logic in Episode 4. Now it’s a completely different game. And in Episode 5, we land on Mars—why not? The mafia’s hands stretch across the whole galaxy
RNasc4444
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Anyone that's worth engaging with or replying to on this thread knows this. They do not fault Ocean for it. I'd argue most would do the same if their livelihood depended on it. That doesn't mean they will hold back criticism. I'm not gonna support a project I don't enjoy all that much because Ocean let himself get put against a wall. Let's keep in mind the whole incest thing was his original idea.
Excluding old WiAB? Family. That's my answer.
From the moment I played the first 3 chapters reworked I thought the game would be about a family torn apart by a forbiden taboo love. I thought it would be about mending those wounds. The abandonment, the betrayal, their past. I thought it would be about healing the twins relationship. Making amends with Katie. Salvaging the marriage of Helen and Dylan. I thought it would be about facing the past and moving forward.
All of this with the criminal backdrop. Leia had become cold and distant. She had to focus on something else. Uncle Joe helped her find a reason to move on after William left. He showed her his business. Taught her how to survive in that world. So she took over his business when he got jailed. She expanded it. Built a side thing of her own. And that made her and the Zane family into targets. They got caught in the middle of a gang turf war. They got caught in the middle of 2 criminal families or organizations vying for power.
That would be more or less a grounded, believable decent story, in my opinion. That's where I thought we could be headed. Not the shitshow we currently have.
Crashbullet
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I even expected that at some point it would be announced that the Krait gang is Rivera, and Asavera is a pseudonym of the Petrovs.
Mamaragan
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And why WIAB is not on patreon? oh yeah, It was nuked during the crackdown. What make you think credit card companies aren't going to strong-arm subscribestar in the future? He planned to make sure his game was clean. Remember the change he made in SG because steam didn't let him sell his game in some country because it was +18? This is what we're dealing with. Americans state requiring ID to watch porn, european countries following up, doing the same. Everything is slowly sanitized
Lol. Lmao even. One of the main source of frustration in the WIAB thread is that Leia and William are not siblings anymore. Of fucking course removing incest is going to piss off people. Whatever ocean would do, it would have been a loss.
And as much as I hate to repeat myself. WIAB was always a criminal themed VN. I don't get the idea where it was just about a "family".
basically what Nasc said.
it was about willy and leia fucking it up for everyone. why that was the case was only hinted at. it had, obviously, criminal undertones, but not nearly a fraction of what ch4 got.
the main problem seemed to be incest even if they werent somehow blood related because incest, even if not blood related, is generally fucking bad lmao.
and there wasnt one clear explanation of the families or the mob or whatever... like i was the same as the meathead, FUCKING EXPLAIN OR IMMA FIND THE ANSWERS MYSELF!
like the consistency wasnt there. if you change something so drastically or introduce a drastic change out of the blue.. yeah it might go over well or it might not. clearly, it has not.
also..... NTR. i dont care much about it at all, but its been hinted for 5+ years and we got fuckall of it tbh. just make something happen between miru and katie or whomever or fucking let willy fuck any of the chicks... who are so incredibly loose with the bobs and vagenes, btw, i mean goddamn
Crashbullet
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I'm talking about not mentioning this, but leaving it as it is, everyone will understand what it's about, before the remake it was the backbone of the plot, and now it's gone, what is this game about?
1 country, Germany, where it was not possible to push it into Steam, and what was it worth it, the game is sold in Germany, no? And tomorrow they will introduce new rules, the mention of the mafia is forbidden in games and what will he do? Don't you see it as idiocy to try to be good for everyone and lose on all fronts?
It was a game about a broken family, and restoring relationships, with a touch of gangs and crime, but I didn't settle for John Wick 5
xCalon
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If I get stoned for it, I'll write it anyway. I think most of the people who have written in this or the WiaB topic in the past two days are both right and wrong. But here I'm only thinking of those who have written meaningful comments and not the usual compressed, android, give me a working save and similar nonsense.
I think this rewrite has made Wiab "better", or at least not worse. For me, the original Wiab doesn't exist, neither the original Summer's Gone. For me, both have existed since I first played the current versions, namely SG Ch4.5 and Wiab Ch2. Unlike many of you, I am far more forgiving about these changes. And I write this because I bought WiaB, and even Summer's Gone before that. And usually I don't spend money on things that aren't important to me.
As I wrote in the WiaB topic, it's obvious that this is not the original story that Ocean once came up with. But unfortunately, this is what is needed for both stories to continue in today's world where hypocrisy and politically correct speech seems default. The alternative would be to say thank you very much, but I'm getting out of this madness. It's a minefield that literally forces developers, and at the same time, kill creativity.
I think this rewrite has made Wiab "better", or at least not worse. For me, the original Wiab doesn't exist, neither the original Summer's Gone. For me, both have existed since I first played the current versions, namely SG Ch4.5 and Wiab Ch2. Unlike many of you, I am far more forgiving about these changes. And I write this because I bought WiaB, and even Summer's Gone before that. And usually I don't spend money on things that aren't important to me.
As I wrote in the WiaB topic, it's obvious that this is not the original story that Ocean once came up with. But unfortunately, this is what is needed for both stories to continue in today's world where hypocrisy and politically correct speech seems default. The alternative would be to say thank you very much, but I'm getting out of this madness. It's a minefield that literally forces developers, and at the same time, kill creativity.
Dr.TSoni
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Same thing for SG, even ch 3 for Wiab in my case.
And no, Ocean's smudges are noticeable even like this, the most practical example that comes to mind is the "hit" with Bella. Ocean wrote the following chapters based on how he thought he would reinterpret that event, but when he reworked the event he goes in different directions to those that Bella and Nika refer to (just look at the scratches that vanish into thin air)
Wiab so far had something that looked like a family clan that looked like people who just have a lot to say in the local community and have pretty mundane things like a car repair shop and maybe something like a local moonshine distillery very South Usa vibe two other local family clans Reveras and Petrovas which rise to power was supposed to be one of the plot lines.
Mila said outright that these clans are weird not mafias
Two local biker gangs, some family of religious fanatics, and confrontations over the clientele of two nightclubs one owned by Leia the other by Asavera
In one update we went from a point where we thought the Oceanverse was in some fictional place that was a mix of the US and Europe to a situation where all I hear are names that sound like types of pizza from the Italian Luigi and a gang of Japanese Yakuza Ninjas from Miru shouting Banzai. I'm still waiting for Mexican Reveras and Tabasco and Nachos Era
Mamaragan
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The first Half of old WIAB was a badly written wannabe porn game, the other half was mc ending up in prison and about criminals. You are falsely accused of rape, and you get abigail's help to get you out of here. Most of the chapters following up is about the “organization” trying to fuck up the Zane. There is talk about the Biker gang joe is part of, the powerful organization trying to fuck the zane up, the Krayt gang, Miru's disappearance because of her clan and the cop corruption. Everything hinted about crime organization and corruption.
For those who want to see how bad and rushed old WIAB was, you can download it here : https://f95zone.to/posts/3651759
But hey muh mafia bad, wah wah luigi its a me mario you can't fuck your blood sisterino.
I'm talking about the first three chapters and I'm not interested in incest. If he wanted to maintain artistic integrity, the only way out was to remake everything from scratch with a proper introduction to this whole new mafia order or a completely suicidal move by making all family members non-romanceable and William on the one hand trying to fix broken family relationships and on the other building his influence while screwing everything that moves either as a cheater or in an open relationship with Miru and so we have a situation in which he pulled the entire Italian Pizzeria out of a hat and suddenly our Southern Belle Mrs. Dawson is supposedly the Italian Donna Seniora Davicioso