VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[Dr.TSoni]

Because they actually had relationships like sisters have and raised like the ones. Like Tom Hagen and Santino Corleone. I already have a blister on my tongue from repeating this example from The Godfather.
By the way, Tom Hagen was the family consigliere, and Fredo Corleone was just a bratty child, weakest and less capable, although he was Don's own son.

Bad example, Tom is never treated as anything other than one of the henchmen with a little more privilege. For example at the beginning of the story when Michael is a stranger to the family business Tom is incredibly respectful towards him because he is the son of the boss

And "Uncle" Joe is superior to them, and he left his business under the supervision of Leia. Not Dylan, Scarlet or Helen.

"Uncle" Joe is presented by the feds as an enforcer for the Zanes, which puts Leia below them anyway. Even imagining that Joe is external at the moment the operations pass to Leia as an associate she must answer to her superiors

You see any contradictions here?

A lot, take Tulsa King for example to see the differences between a small organization with local power and the interactions between mafia families.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Bad example, Tom is never treated as anything other than one of the henchmen with a little more privilege. For example at the beginning of the story when Michael is a stranger to the family business Tom is incredibly respectful towards him because he is the son of the boss


"Uncle" Joe is presented by the feds as an enforcer for the Zanes, which puts Leia below them anyway. Even imagining that Joe is external at the moment the operations pass to Leia as an associate she must answer to his superiors


A lot, take Tulsa King for example to see the differences between a small organization with local power and the interactions between mafia families.

I'd say that the dynamics between the Zanes and the Aranos need to be revealed more before we can decide:
- Are the Aranos a separate family that pay tribute to the Zanes?
- Dylan is the Zane, but Helen is the leader (and not a Zane herself) as Dylan's brother and sister are also Zanes. So Scarlet is also not a Zane.
- Is Helen a marriage of convenience/politics from another Family, like what they're considering doing with Leia?
- Is Scarlet bing related to Helen the reason Joe works with the Zanes? Or does Joe have a background with Dylan or Helen directly?
- Leia's empire is really Joe's that she's building up in his absence, it will be interesting to see if he approves and the dynamic of that discussion, but we can assuming it works out because:
- Leia still appears to have control over some things, so I assume the gentlemen's club be a recruitment establishment in SG
- and Katie's contracts appear to still be extended past the 5 year mark for any business that Leia invests in (presumably it's Leia who invests in ZPR, and that's why Katie is the designer).
- Will the way the Aranos relate to the Zanes be the same dynamic for the Petrovas and the Reveras by the time SG kicks in?

 

[yossa999]

Bad example, Tom is never treated as anything other than one of the henchmen with a little more privilege. For example at the beginning of the story when Michael is a stranger to the family business Tom is incredibly respectful towards him because he is the son of the boss

Tom is a lawyer and respectful for everyone he talks to. But Tom and Santino were in power after the assassination attempt on Don. Or rather Santino, but he completely relied on Tom's judgements. Both of them didn't trust Mike, not in the sense that they suspected him of something, but simply didn't believe that he was capable of helping them in gangster showdowns. And only when he took the initiative into his own hands and literally got involved in family affairs did they begin to respect him. And we should go in off-topic thread to continue this.

But the dynamics between Zanes was a bit different. Leia and Will were raised almost as Helen's and Dylan's children. They were "firstborn" Their attitude to the kids didn't change with the unexpected Katie's birth. So, the MC treats Helen with formal respect and is a bit afraid of her, but not Katie, she's their bibi. And Leia does the same.

"Uncle" Joe is presented by the feds as an enforcer for the Zanes, which puts Leia below them anyway. Even imagining that Joe is external at the moment the operations pass to Leia as an associate she must answer to his superiors

Well, maybe it will be clarified later. Maybe she's been assigned to this position by that guy with moustaches who was lecturing her in those flashbacks from her childhood. Obviously Joe doesn't trust Scarlet, and Helen is muted Why not Dylan, I have no idea. Probably will be explained later.

A lot, take Tulsa King for example to see the differences between a small organization with local power and the interactions between mafia families.

Man, no, please. Just no. Just not Tulsa King, it's pure comedy, and I'm still under the impression of the detailed analysis, precisely from the point of view of the character's behavior within the framework of criminal relations. In short, bullshit, made for show. And we have to go to the off-topic thread to continue.

But even there you can see that once you set foot on foreign soil, you will have serious problems with the locals, no matter how respected your family is in the mafia hierarchy. You have to be really desperate to do it. Young runaway "recruit" is not a cause to do that.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a perfect story based on the memoirs of former mob bosses, claiming to be accurate showing of the thug life. Moreover, it takes place in Wollust, a completely fictional city located in a fictional country reminiscent of a mix of Europe and America. Within its own logic and rules, the plot is quite consistent.

 

[dacris69]

Hi, Chapter 5 Beta includes 1-4?

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Leia and Will were raised almost as Helen's and Dylan's children. They were "firstborn" Their attitude to the kids didn't change with the unexpected Katie's birth.

In at least two different conversations their relationship is described as the exact opposite of what you described.

Man, no, please. Just no. Just not Tulsa King, it's pure comedy, and I'm still under the impression of the detailed analysis, precisely from the point of view of the character's behavior within the framework of criminal relations. In short, bullshit, made for show. And we have to go to the off-topic thread to continue.

But even there you can see that once you set foot on foreign soil, you will have serious problems with the locals, no matter how respected your family is in the mafia hierarchy. You have to be really desperate to do it. Young runaway "recruit" is not a cause to do that.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a perfect story based on the memoirs of former mob bosses, claiming to be accurate showing of the thug life. Moreover, it takes place in Wollust, a completely fictional city located in a fictional country reminiscent of a mix of Europe and America. Within its own logic and rules, the plot is quite consistent.

But the point remains, the "families" have contacts among themselves to avoid war unless they are rivals. In the context that Ocean has inserted, the Giuseppes would have contacted their allies to ensure that Willy ended up shanked in prison

Hi, Chapter 5 Beta includes 1-4?

Yes

 

[Crashbullet]

In at least two different conversations their relationship is described as the exact opposite of what you described.

I said it in more rude words, and he replied, "Lolwhat?" I almost believed it was an ocean in disguise.

 

[yossa999]

I said it in more rude words, and he replied, "Lolwhat?" I almost believed it was an ocean in disguise.

Sure I'm Ocean, my blueballed fan

EDIT: If you will be persistent enough you will eventuallly find posts on this site where I'm talking to my main account

 

[Crashbullet]

I'm Ocean

I just visualized this image now.

 

[yossa999]

In at least two different conversations their relationship is described as the exact opposite of what you described.

See, I don't really remember the exact conversations you're referring to. I'm not going to lie, I was more interested in Katie's and Zoey's vajayjays and the chicks at the club than in the details of the Zane family chain of command and etiquette.

But what I do remember is Willie's fears, shared with Miru, about what they (Zanes, Jury) would do to him. And I also remember Dylan's reaction - the hug, the confession of how much he missed him, the request for him to stay with them and not run away again, the scene in the barn. And Helen's note after the attack, saying she would kill Giuseppe if they sentenced Will.

So I guess I'll stick to my delusions about what the real state of relationships between the MC and Helen and Dylan is (and not in Willie's head).

 

[SToyS]

i agreed 100% , we know that Oceans has a very weak writing ability and instead of keeping the story small and tight , he went for a grandiose story about the mafia where all his weaknesses are as prevalent as the sun but as many of us has said for quiet sometime , Ocean will put himself on a corner and that will be detrimental for one of both avns.
Ocean still can right the ship as long he's willing to do so .

talking about something different ...... the fat'em up continues Leia just become another of the blow up dolls and her rita repulsa constume when she's at the bar it's ridiculose

I disagree that Ocean has poor writing skills. When Regium left, Ocean had to leave Wiab and finish SG. For about 2 years, Ocean worked only on SG and during this time he made 3 chapters (2-3-3.5) that were interesting and SG began to rise in the ratings. After that, Ocean decided to do SG and Wiab at the same time, and the updates began to come out shitty and boring. It's not for nothing that people say that you need to focus on one thing to succeed. If you do several things at once, you won't be able to do even one well.

It's not hard to guess what will happen next. If Ocean continues to make 2 games at the same time, then the updates will come out worse and worse until the Patreons are gone. If a miracle happens and Ocean focuses all his attention on SG and temporarily abandons Wiab, then he will have a chance to return the Patreons and attract new ones.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

See, I don't really remember the exact conversations you're referring to. I'm not going to lie, I was more interested in Katie's and Zoey's vajayjays and the chicks at the club than in the details of the Zane family chain of command and etiquette.

But what I do remember is Willie's fears, shared with Miru, about what they (Zanes, Jury) would do to him. And I also remember Dylan's reaction - the hug, the confession of how much he missed him, the request for him to stay with them and not run away again, the scene in the barn. And Helen's note after the attack, saying she would kill Giuseppe if they sentenced Will.

So I guess I'll stick to my delusions about what the real state of relationships between the MC and Helen and Dylan is (and not in Willie's head).

I'm not going to lie, I enjoyed the scenes with Katie, but with a bit of a bittersweet taste since my favorite part is the character and her dynamics.

 

[Penfold Mole]

Hi, Chapter 5 Beta includes 1-4?

Not exactly. The rework of chapter 1 and 2 were incomplete in 5 beta. A part of chapter 2 was completely rewritten after the beta release, not just renders replaced. Lots of things changed in season 1: link to changelog
You can see lots of pre-rework renders there and old versions of scenes that are no longer canon.

 

[Maccabbee]

Does that answer your question?

View attachment 5018080

I didn't have a question. I don't see anything contradicting my statement.

 

[Maccabbee]

Nope, they are best describing what I've seen.

Because they actually had relationships like sisters have and raised like the ones. Like Tom Hagen and Santino Corleone. I already have a blister on my tongue from repeating this example from The Godfather.
By the way, Tom Hagen was the family consigliere, and Fredo Corleone was just a bratty child, weakest and less capable, although he was Don's own son.

And "Uncle" Joe is superior to them, and he left his business under the supervision of Leia. Not Dylan, Scarlet or Helen.

Can't connect the parts of this statement to get something meaningful.
Yep they're organized crime syndicate.
Yep they're big. In the area they operate.
Yep they have their jury. How it correlates with the size of the syndicate?
Yep size is relative, something can be big, compared to one thing and small, compared to another thing. For example, Zanes family can be influental in Wollust and have no power outside of it. You see any contradictions here?
Gus Fring was a big shot in Albuquerque and nobody, when he was standing in front of Don Eladio.
And why would they want to follow William and bring him back to the Jury if the sentence would be exile out of the state, exactly what he did by himself?
Besides, Helen visited him in prison, so he wasn't that unreachable, it was just that no one needed to reach him.

I agree with almost everything here, except it sounds like all this arguing about the jury seems like you think it's part of the Zane organization? It's not. They talk about other families that used to war between them. There was a treaty, the jury is part of that. The members of the jury are not Zane, they're from the other families. They sound somewhat hostile to the Zanes, and definitely hostile to Leia and William's old families.

Helen and the Zane Family have no choice about bringing William to the Jury, if they don't then it's war. In the family's weakened state they can't afford it. The fact that Helen says she'd do that if they end up exiling or trying to execute William says something.

Helen visited William in prison once. She was his one call. She never went back. It was a shock when we found that out, because Leia didn't know about it at all. We don't know if anyone did. The family didn't seem to know at all. It's more extreme than you're making it out to be.

 

[RNasc4444]

i agreed 100% , we know that Oceans has a very weak writing ability and instead of keeping the story small and tight , he went for a grandiose story about the mafia where all his weaknesses are as prevalent as the sun but as many of us has said for quiet sometime , Ocean will put himself on a corner and that will be detrimental for one of both avns.
Ocean still can right the ship as long he's willing to do so .

talking about something different ...... the fat'em up continues Leia just become another of the blow up dolls and her rita repulsa constume when she's at the bar it's ridiculose

I don't think there can or will be any "righting of the ship" anymore. He will not engage in more reworks. No shot. This is it for better or worse and WiAB is beyond salvation. The only hope we have is that the 20 year gap between stories could insulate SG from the "mafia shit" that's plaguing WiAB.

The inflation won't stop sadly. You've seen how Katie looks now. You've seen that cursed render of Jabba the Mute in a nightgown. Leia looked as disgusting to me as she's always been. Can't say I've noticed any changes there. But knowing it's inevitable and accepting it, kinda makes me curious to see Mila in the coming update. The previews of her already look horrifying

 

[yossa999]

I agree with almost everything here, except it sounds like all this arguing about the jury seems like you think it's part of the Zane organization? It's not. They talk about other families that used to war between them. There was a treaty, the jury is part of that. The members of the jury are not Zane, they're from the other families. They sound somewhat hostile to the Zanes, and definitely hostile to Leia and William's old families.

Helen and the Zane Family have no choice about bringing William to the Jury, if they don't then it's war. In the family's weakened state they can't afford it. The fact that Helen says she'd do that if they end up exiling or trying to execute William says something.

Helen visited William in prison once. She was his one call. She never went back. It was a shock when we found that out, because Leia didn't know about it at all. We don't know if anyone did. The family didn't seem to know at all. It's more extreme than you're making it out to be.

Yeah, that's right, I wrote it wrong, the Jury is not part of the Zanes, I meant that the Jury still only has local power in Wollust, but not outside of it. Like that meeting of New York families where Corleone and Tattaglia, in the presence of everyone, concluded a truce after the assassination attempt on the Don.

 

[Maccabbee]

Yeah, that's right, I wrote it wrong, the Jury is not part of the Zanes, I meant that the Jury still only has local power in Wollust, but not outside of it. Like that meeting of New York families where Corleone and Tattaglia, in the presence of everyone, concluded a truce after the assassination attempt on the Don.

The jury is not in Wollust, it's two hours drive away. They have power over ALL the families, not just the Zanes. The Zanes are now split up into three different cities, and three different gangs. OUR Zanes are in Wallust. The Syndicate (all the families and factions) are presumably huge, nationwide or international.

 

[BobTheDuck]

The jury is not in Wollust, it's two hours drive away. They have power over ALL the families, not just the Zanes. The Zanes are now split up into three different cities, and three different gangs. OUR Zanes are in Wallust. The Syndicate (all the families and factions) are presumably huge, nationwide or international.

International - it's mentioned that Leia and Silvano are the only remaining Pedersoli's 'on the continent'.

 

[yossa999]

The jury is not in Wollust, it's two hours drive away. They have power over ALL the families, not just the Zanes. The Zanes are now split up into three different cities, and three different gangs. OUR Zanes are in Wallust. The Syndicate (all the families and factions) are presumably huge, nationwide or international.

Oh, I missed that point, I thought they were locals from Wollust. Well, then Willie must have hidden well (in prison ) or they really didn't think he was worth finding and punishing.

 

[Lord1]

I'm a bit bad at this but isint Nika, extremely similar to Leia ?