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lonelyk

Member
Feb 12, 2019
231
1,024
Some hints Siren

Whether you are patreon or not, here we all have the right to have an opinion, being patreon you are supporting the dev but you have no more right to the game for it.

P.S: im patreon :LUL:
First, everybody is entitled to their opinion regardless their support. Second, most developers welcome constructive criticism. Taking the time to voice an opinion it just means you care enought that you want to improve the project.

Main problem is that many are not giving opinion or constructive criticism but simply demanding stuff: dev takes too long, must include more sex scenes, avoid talking to x as that counts as netorare, remove that character as i dont like it.. bla bla bla.

Not even supporters have any right to demand an artistic product to be different, here or anywhere. You only have that power when you hire an artist to create a product to your liking. Patreon support is not that.

Just to be explicit, I am not saying that you are demanding stuff. On the contrary, that provided your opinion and criticism are always with respect and constructive, supporting a game is not a requirement to have and express them.

PS: i am also a supporter.
That is very kind of both of you to say but I can't entirely share the sentiment. As far as I know, Summer's Gone, like many other VNs on this website, is not a public release but meant by the developer for their Patreon supporters. That's their art, their project, and they are free to choose their distribution policy. Creating games takes a lot of time and money so they are well justified.
So I find it is very entitled to criticize a game you pirated. I feel free to give some feedback or suggestions sometimes but have no expectation for the developers to listen or address them. Patreons cannot make demands either it's true, but it feels reasonable that their feedback would be heard. They have a stake in the game development and it is their financial support that allows the dev to work on it, so it is a relationship that goes both ways and is important for the future of the game.
That's not to say that non-patreons are useless to the developer. There can be some good ideas if they care to read through. They bring more visibility to the game which in turn will bring more players. And some will decide to support the game on Patreon, like you two. Thumbs up!

But to go back on topic, and since you encouraged me to express my opinion fully, I also work in software development and the goals in my work life need to be a lot closer and more realistic than this. 5 years is a lifetime in software development, and like it's been pointed out before, the technology keeps evolving and will make your project quickly outdated. It is very hard to predict how your life is going to change in the next five years, what new technologies will come or how a project will live. So it's usually an absolute no-no to plan a project longer than that, there's just too many variables and you're setting up for failure.
Summer's Gone was started about 2 years ago. 3 years left for 27 chapters that's 1 chapter every 40 days. I can't see that happen. Even if we counted 5 years from now it's one chapter every 67 days, a very intense pace very unlike the pace we've seen so far.
So if I were the developer, I would wonder how I could flip that around.
  • More help? I don't see that happen, the game is not flowing in money and anyway someone talented enough to work on Summer's Gone like Ocean would probably get more money and enjoy more working on their own project.
  • Narrow the scope of the game? 10 chapters would seem a lot more realistic, and perhaps release sequels later. But that can seriously go against the creativity of the developer who has a story to tell and might even impact their motivation. And it changes nothing if the story remains the same but the seasons were simply divided in different games, that's still way too long a target for the ending.
  • Just get more productive? It's not impossible, Ocean has been learning a lot over the course of this project, and they could analyze where their time is sunk and how to optimize it too. But this won't solve everything alone, there's simply no miracle solution to triple your productivity!
  • Focus on a single game? Having a second game to develop in parallel is an obvious time sinker (it cannot be all constrained by the hardware, there's only so much time and energy a dev has in a day), but that's his choice and that's where as a non-patreon I don't feel legitimate. If I recall correctly, SG was started with another dev on Patreon, so perhaps there's a money reason why another game was developed. And that's a respectable reason if that is so, although I think it would be easier to attract patreons with full effort on a single game -> faster releases. I made the maths also when I considered supporting the game on Patreon and monthly financial support x long releases x many releases left = way more money than I was ready to spend. I'm probably not alone in that.
It still feels wrong to comment on somebody else's project. I hope Ocean will not mind. I worry because I care, like Ayhsel said. <3

Edit: I posted after Ocean without having read his message. So let's dismiss my message for now and see what the new release cycle will be like this year. I'm wholeheartedly hoping for success and will reconsider becoming a patreon if things look promising.
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,083
14,028
Render count and quality are increasing with every update without increasing the active development time.
The quality of renders has definitely improved compared to the first ones from WIAB. Still two projects at the same time slow down development, imo it would be best to work on WIAB until finnished, but you're the dev and you know better about your workflow than me or anyone on this thread.
The only thing we can do now is wait for updates and discuss how development is going from our point of view.
 

deoclitian

Member
Aug 5, 2017
269
498
The progress:

SG Chapter 2: ~1300 renders. (Took 5 months. Dev problems.)

WiAB 0.6: ~5300 renders. (Took 5 months + part-time job.)

SG Chapter 3: ~12000 renders. (5 months active development + one GPU dying + my irrational time-consuming hustle for Blender.)

Render count and quality are increasing with every update without increasing the active development time.



There is no reason to speculate about the new release cycles. I gave my word that I would do better due to having two dedicated PCs for each game and a more professional workflow.


If I break my word, feel free to rip me a new asshole but please don't say progress hasn't been made.
you`re doing a fabulous job, congrats
maybe at some point in the future you`ll be able to hire someone to help you with evrything and share the load
GG
 
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Ayhsel

Chocolate Vampire
Donor
May 9, 2019
4,896
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i used to think like you! then i grew up! no criticism is constructive unless request and most developers are egomaniacs who will never ask for help! so all criticism you can do will only make the work less... it can be slightly better for you but it muddles the creative process for the builder and therefore there will be a price in quality consistency or time every time a developer lends his hear to the critics!

i know i know i am the worst person to talk, but does not mean its not true! yes people should debate and have their opinions but devs and project managers must learn to distance themselves from the echoes and noise and stick to the plan!
You do bring to attention something that many times end up bad: developer listening to opinion and the end up result hurt the idea the developer had in the first beginning.

I don't think no criticism is constructive unless requested neither that most devs are egonomaniacs. But if anything, it is true that it is hard to make useful recommendations when you don't know where the story is being taken.

This is particularly true for this kind of project when the main asset is the story. Ocean probably has very well established points on the events that come and how the characters will react to them according to the personality he has established for them. So go around and say "it would be better in this happen" really make no sense.

JUST TO MAKE IT EXPLICIT: I would not ask Ocean to change anything. I am blindly in love with this story.
 
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ason238

Newbie
Mar 9, 2021
72
50
Anybody know the name of the song when you first meet Bella by her car in the school parking lot when the cinematic plays?
 

matioxe

New Member
Jun 15, 2019
2
0
During the scene in lecture hall? You probably mean "Sundown (Tell me everything is ok)" by Wellmess. The next one is "State of Dystopia" by Of Men And Wolves feat. Red Revision.
 

Mortarion

Well-Known Member
Donor
Oct 22, 2017
1,818
6,745
I am considering to move one of my pledges after another - if possible - from Patreon to Subscribe Star and support Oceanlab there. Are there any diffrences? I am asking because i have read a posting from a other dev with this meaning:

1615718792052.png
 
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lonelyk

Member
Feb 12, 2019
231
1,024
That's a good question. I noticed that the highest tier was priced differently: $100 on SubscribeStar vs $85 on Patreon. Does that mean devs get a bigger cut of the pledges from Patreon than SS?
 

ason238

Newbie
Mar 9, 2021
72
50
During the scene in lecture hall? You probably mean "Sundown (Tell me everything is ok)" by Wellmess. The next one is "State of Dystopia" by Of Men And Wolves feat. Red Revision.
Thanks for checking, but i meant for the scene where Bella is sitting on her car talking with the girl with the blue hat (i forget her name). You get the group assignment then she asks you to work on it at her place. After some cutscenes you get to the parking lot and then the cinematic plays where it shows off her car, her sitting on it, and chatting with the blue hat girl
 

TSL_JOK4R.

Member
Mar 31, 2020
338
579
Hi guys i know you might have heard this question a thousand times before but here we go Lol :

will Nojiko (Mom) be a fuckable charecter because i like this charecter alot ?

BTW i discovered the game last night and it's already my favourite even without any sex scene and that says ALOT Lol.
keep up the good work
 

Cyth

Newbie
May 9, 2018
56
511
Hi guys i know you might have heard this question a thousand times before but here we go Lol :

will Nojiko (Mom) be a fuckable charecter because i like this charecter alot ?

BTW i discovered the game last night and it's already my favourite even without any sex scene and that says ALOT Lol.
keep up the good work
yes. she will be a LI
 
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