Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[kikomascado]

As a modder, i used to decypher both games and i ca assure you that Summertime Saga use very deeper coding system.
It's very smart, need a huge amount of time to do it nicely and it's very well done.

Summertime already have a "restore old save" system, but only for the persistent date saved, like cookiejar unlocks. The data saved is actually more like a memory screenshot written into a text. Even the backward functions works with a summertime save.

So if you want to keep save from version to another, you need to change the behaviour of a save before, choosing data carefully, the way, the how, the why, before writing them and load them. Then, you'll need to keep a specific track about changes between two versions, and write missing data from an old version save to a new version one.

BUT, as i started modding this new mechanics, i could provide a "let me go thru all story until that moment" for each character soon. I'm writing a debug menu from the developper one (getting all safe functions from the dev console) and saw about theses mechanics. I could trigger manually all the events checkpoints until a chosen moment for a specific character, but it could be tricky as many events are dependant of others.

Check my mod thread, i'll keep you updated there.

Wow, thank you for taking your time and explaining that.

To be honest, I don't have a clue about how Ren'py saves works. I have some experience in programming (just small stuff) but when I first tried to edit some saves using the Save Editor, i saw all that information that seemed to be unrelated to the game variables and gave up.

I thought it would be just a export of the current state of the game variables (like the day, your stats, the flags activated and so on) and some info on the current screen, sprites, dialogue and position on the script, but it's waaay more complex than that for me to understand. :disappointed:

 

[seraphimd2]

People can understand save compatibility wrong sometimes, The thing about it is not about keeping the same system all the time, it's about translating an old saves and mapping everything into the new system, then once player saves again it's in the correct format. It's not rocket science, but if you made everything in a big mess in the first place, yes it will be a pain to maintain, it's a mystery to me how this still is a problem in so many games. It should never have to fundamentally change this much. Maybe they are tweaking some stuff that ren'py really doesn't like... but it's just python, they could make something custom, they have the resources to do it.

Each save should contain the game version, and once you load that game version save into the game it should translate whatever needs matching up against the new system, or figure out the missing parts by itself. Thing about it though is, it takes extra work, and it's only used in a very specific situation. maybe they don't think its worth it.

well,DC never tried hide from anyone that he cant code shit....it was up for Dogeek fixing that....poor bastard probably had a bad time fixing that,since DC used to joke how he did a mess in that coding,and he still trying to pass everything from the old code to his new one...

 

[j4yj4m]

Wait,what?Did I miss something?
Isnt the patch maintained anymore?

Well, since it's not officially supported it had some issues in the last updates even though those basically did not concern family members at all. Now when it comes to Diane's and Jenny's update there'll have to be major rewrites and I guess it's going to take quite a while unless somebody really wants to make the effort.

 

[ikaruga]

Wow, thank you for taking your time and explaining that.

To be honest, I don't have a clue about how Ren'py saves works. I have some experience in programming (just small stuff) but when I first tried to edit some saves using the Save Editor, i saw all that information that seemed to be unrelated to the game variables and gave up.

I thought it would be just a export of the current state of the game variables (like the day, your stats, the flags activated and so on) and some info on the current screen, sprites, dialogue and position on the script, but it's waaay more complex than that for me to understand. :disappointed:

Summertime use a machine state system, with everything linked and triggered easily. It's really hard to understand at first, because the code is like everywhere (i needed to overcharge 6 files to just enable all mia routes on the same save...)

When a save is loaded, all theses triggers are kinda restored, and if coder add anything between the "chain of events" from the start of the game and your save, this chain is broken. I don't even talk about variable renamed, for example.

Allowing old save to work need coders to "fix the chain" when an old save is loaded, but how to know how old a save is ? Other problems. So easy choice : no old save loading until very late game changes.

Well, since it's not officially supported it had some issues in the last updates even though those basically did not concern family members at all. Now when it comes to Diane's and Jenny's update there'll have to be major rewrites and I guess it's going to take quite a while unless somebody really wants to make the effort.

If you can explain the problem, i could write a fix with my mod !

 

[j4yj4m]

If you can explain the problem, i could write a fix with my mod !

I think the actual game breaking "problems" where fixed pretty quickly but there have always been quite a few people who complained that the words "mom/sis/aunt/Debbie/Jenny/Diane" weren't used properly in certain situations. Now that Diane and Jenny will get new updates I'd say that someone will actually have to read through the whole new texts and rewrite them properly so everything does make 100% sense and creates the right atmosphere. I'm not sure if that can be so easily without investing that time.

 

[ikaruga]

I think the actual game breaking "problems" where fixed pretty quickly but there have always been quite a few people who complained that the words "mom/sis/aunt/Debbie/Jenny/Diane" weren't used properly in certain situations. Now that Diane and Jenny will get new updates I'd say that someone will actually have to read through the whole new texts and rewrite them properly so everything does make 100% sense and creates the right atmosphere. I'm not sure if that can be so easily without investing that time.

It's possible, because each Character in game has their own machine code, and because each name are variable in game.
So let's say if it's main character talking, then debbie_name is whanged to "mom", and not for other characters, who will still use the debbie_name variable. Same for sister / how sister call her mom and aunt.

BUT : i don't know if i can do it

 

[ikaruga]

It's possible, because each Character in game has their own machine code, and because each name are variable in game.
So let's say if it's main character talking, then debbie_name is whanged to "mom", and not for other characters, who will still use the debbie_name variable. Same for sister / how sister call her mom and aunt.

BUT : i don't know if i can do it

Maybe i could.
For all coders :

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Overwriting Character instances for main player and sister to add parameters helping to change texts, it could work

 

[ikaruga]

Maybe i could.
For all coders :

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

Overwriting Character instances for main player and sister to add parameters helping to change texts, it could work

Ok, maybe i'll try

You must be registered to see the links

 

[kikomascado]

Summertime use a machine state system, with everything linked and triggered easily. It's really hard to understand at first, because the code is like everywhere (i needed to overcharge 6 files to just enable all mia routes on the same save...)

When a save is loaded, all theses triggers are kinda restored, and if coder add anything between the "chain of events" from the start of the game and your save, this chain is broken. I don't even talk about variable renamed, for example.

Allowing old save to work need coders to "fix the chain" when an old save is loaded, but how to know how old a save is ? Other problems. So easy choice : no old save loading until very late game changes.

Maybe the save could have the game version, and because the game would know the previous and current "architetures" of the save information, it convert them just like a file conversor, like Aesouh said somes replies above.
But doing that at each update would be such a hard work, and too much time consuming, so it wouldn't be doable, just like Aesouh said, too. :biggrin:

It's possible, because each Character in game has their own machine code, and because each name are variable in game.
So let's say if it's main character talking, then debbie_name is whanged to "mom", and not for other characters, who will still use the debbie_name variable. Same for sister / how sister call her mom and aunt.

BUT : i don't know if i can do it

I think what he mean was that sometimes the text seems incorrect or not fitting. Calling her by the relationship when it would make more sense calling her by her name or something like that. I don't know.

 

[j4yj4m]

I think what he mean was that sometimes the text seems incorrect or not fitting. Calling her by the relationship when it would make more sense calling her by her name or something like that. I don't know.

Yes, at least that's what some people have complained about but if the naming system works like it was described maybe that's how it is anyway. I'm personally not using the incest patch so I can't tell. But this update I'd actually expect that some more rewrites could be nescessary. I mean, there's obviously a difference in let's say the threesome between ones aunt and mom on one hand or landlady and her friend on the other and just replacing the names likely won't make that much sense. So I guess it's pretty hard to make it fit this time.

 

[ikaruga]

Yes, at least that's what some people have complained about but if the naming system works like it was described maybe that's how it is anyway. I'm personally not using the incest patch so I can't tell. But this update I'd actually expect that some more rewrites could be nescessary. I mean, there's obviously a difference in let's say the threesome between ones aunt and mom on one hand or landlady and her friend on the other and just replacing the names likely won't make that much sense. So I guess it's pretty hard to make it fit this time.

Hey, great news, i did it

Kinda tricky, but :

1. When player or jen is talking, "mom" is used instead of "Debdie", and "Aunt Diane" instead of "Diane"
2. When player talk about jen, he use "sis" and jen use "brother"

And, your our fun

• No need to parse all files
• No need to complicate things
• Version change proof

Will post in my mod thread, but you need to unpack the scripts ....

 

[CassidyPRO]

Well, since it's not officially supported it had some issues in the last updates even though those basically did not concern family members at all. Now when it comes to Diane's and Jenny's update there'll have to be major rewrites and I guess it's going to take quite a while unless somebody really wants to make the effort.

DC should do what other devs are doing.. use variables implemented by the players to the game..

like " Who is this character to you?, Whats her name? ow do you call her? "

 

[TheDevian]

Hey, great news, i did it

Kinda tricky, but :

1. When player or jen is talking, "mom" is used instead of "Debdie", and "Aunt Diane" instead of "Diane"
2. When player talk about jen, he use "sis" and jen use "brother"

And, your our fun

• No need to parse all files
• No need to complicate things
• Version change proof

Will post in my mod thread, but you need to unpack the scripts ....

Nice, there is also Jenny calling 'Mom' and 'Aunt', unlike the others. Or Demmy and Diane calling each other sister once in a while might be a nice touch too, but harder to pull off... :winkytongue: (that's what she said).

DC should do what other devs are doing.. use variables implemented by the players to the game...
like " Who is this character to you?, Whats her name? ow do you call her? "

It's not a bad idea, it works for you, but not for the aunt/mom relations, sister with aunt and mom, and Erik and his Mom. Not to mention Eve and her sister...
Hard to say though, he managed to get away with Crystal and Cletus, but they are pretty minor characters.

The really hard part is going to be the next generation, when literally the whole town will be related. XD

 

[j4yj4m]

Hey, great news, i did it

Sounds really good, now oneonly have to see as to how far it really makes sense and feels right in detail concerning all the incest.

DC should do what other devs are doing.. use variables implemented by the players to the game.. like " Who is this character to you?, Whats her name? ow do you call her? "

Well, I can understand that he doesn't want to release a game that makes little sense as soon as you insert the wrong names. I mean, the whole incest topic resolves around a certain taboo and it's just not the same with house mates, friends, landladies etc. In the end the story has to be adapted accordingly if you want nice dialogs and since SS never really had an incest focus in the first place it's probably better as it is now.

 

[Saraf]

Someone usually does it, but it can take time, and the last one was a big buggy, at least at first, so I didn't use it myself.

Wasnt it maintained by one guy?Thats the impression I got(not that I followed its development particularly closely).
Made it sound like its dead in the water...gave me a near heart attack >->

Same. I already know what the reality of the game is and that it'll get restored at the end.
That and updates about non-family members don't really call for it anyway.

Tried that approach with the very first rewritten version,hit the exit button at the end of the first day.
Its actually quite impressive how much simply knowing something is wrong destroys my enjoyment of media(as a neet bonus it makes enjoying most official "localizations" a constant struggle of not smashing my head into a wall).

Well, since it's not officially supported it had some issues in the last updates even though those basically did not concern family members at all. Now when it comes to Diane's and Jenny's update there'll have to be major rewrites and I guess it's going to take quite a while unless somebody really wants to make the effort.

Hm yeah I remember some errors cropping up but nothing serious,didnt know it was such a big deal.
Far as the rewrites are concerned and how the patch handles actually new content...thats been a concerned that has been around ever since the patreon changes.
Always hoped that some undercover delegate of DC´s would start maintaining the patch.

 

[TheDevian]

Wasnt it maintained by one guy?Thats the impression I got(not that I followed its development particularly closely).
Made it sound like its dead in the water...gave me a near heart attack >->

Sorry, yeah, I think it was, but I don't know what happened last time, but since I heard people having issues with it, and all I really cared about that time was Roxxy's story, it wasn't worth the effort to figure it out for me. I know the story well enough to figure out what's going on, unlike this other one I tried to play a while back, we had 5 people in the room, and everyone was calling everyone else 'roommate' or roomie, or some variation there of. I had no idea what was going on without the patch... XD They should have just stuck with their names...

 

[CassidyPRO]

Wha do you mean?

its is confirmed.

 

[CassidyPRO]

Nice, there is also Jenny calling 'Mom' and 'Aunt', unlike the others. Or Demmy and Diane calling each other sister once in a while might be a nice touch too, but harder to pull off... :winkytongue: (that's what she said).

It's not a bad idea, it works for you, but not for the aunt/mom relations, sister with aunt and mom, and Erik and his Mom. Not to mention Eve and her sister...
Hard to say though, he managed to get away with Crystal and Cletus, but they are pretty minor characters.

The really hard part is going to be the next generation, when literally the whole town will be related. XD

lol.. for most games.. you just set one family member and the game triggers all others because they havent been scraped from the source code XD

 

[TheDevian]

lol.. for most games.. you just set one family member and the game triggers all others because they havent been scraped from the source code XD

That could work... Usually when I see it, there is only one such character in the game, two tops, like a 'sister' or a 'mom', occasionally both. This one has so many it seems difficult, but it might be feasible.

 

[j4yj4m]

lol.. for most games.. you just set one family member and the game triggers all others because they havent been scraped from the source code XD

I guess that's not really an option for DC. The game is just too big/popular and someone would certainly report it to patreon. And in that case it's pretty clear that implemented mechanisms which restore the incest are against their TOS.

Always hoped that some undercover delegate of DC´s would start maintaining the patch.

Not that I'd heard of anything. I really think he can live without the incest for now and doesn't want to spend additional time on a 2nd tier incest patch, which always has a tiny risk of getting into trouble with patreon as well. In the end there'll be quite a few changes necessary to restore it fully and to do it well and I'm sure he wants to go that way when the game is done.