Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.4468] [Kompas Productions]

[Rando Civ]

This is being debated in the thread opened to discuss this issue. At first, I understood it to be related to webcam content and other real porn activities that I saw take place on or through some patreon accounts.

Strictly speaking, "using Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material" is the very definition of what game developers are doing there, despite the legal loops that, as you say, can be employed to argue a case. But, curiously enough, games are not explicitly mentioned in the text, and some of the creator pages that were taken down seem to be up again. I have even read some are saying they are handling things with Patreon and will be back with some changes (problematic content hidden under patreon-only posts, etc.). Therefore, if the policy affected the activity in its totality, this should not be possible and all the developers should have to change their projects radically, or remove them from Patreon.

Let's see if they clarify things in the next days, but, as of now, I doubt they change is so radical.

Honestly, best case scenario is that they only need to modify the games to remain in Patreon, since it says nothing about animation and animated content or erotic art (actually, if you could get me erotic art from patreon that isn't banned due to differences in terminology, you could be absolutely safe and disguise it as art or use said term to cover your work, but this could only work with non live action games). Worst case scenario, is that the Guidelines are changed to include them.

I would still argue that since there is no commercial transaction (as defined by law and merchant custom), the part in which they argue that "you cannot sell pornographic material" does not apply to the developers at all. Since this isn't a sell, this is a donation. And a difference in terms as those, could in theory keep you relatively safe.

 

[John The Boogeyman Wick]

Honestly, best case scenario is that they only need to modify the games to remain in Patreon, since it says nothing about animation and animated content or erotic art (actually, if you could get me erotic art from patreon that isn't banned due to differences in terminology, you could be absolutely safe and disguise it as art or use said term to cover your work, but this could only work with non live action games). Worst case scenario, is that the Guidelines are changed to include them.

I would still argue that since there is no commercial transaction (as defined by law and merchant custom), the part in which they argue that "you cannot sell pornographic material" does not apply to the developers at all. Since this isn't a sell, this is a donation. And a difference in terms as those, could in theory keep you relatively safe.

There is a flaw in that argument. I'm not sure you can define this business as one of donations. The reason, I think for it to be an donation based business, it needs to be free and accessible to all "beside the pirating". If you have a pay wall, it's no longer a donations but a pay to play "not sure what the legal term is".

 

[Rando Civ]

There is a flaw in that argument. I'm not sure you can define this business as one of donations. The reason, I think for it to be an donation based business, it needs to be free and accessible to all "Beside the pirating". If you have a pay wall, it's no longer a donations but a pay to play "not sure what the legal term is".

The words used to describe the situation in which money is given are: "Donate" "pledge" among others. None of them can be used to describe a commercial transaction, it's not an act of commerce unless you are willing to change certain definitions in the dictionary, the law and go against the very customary law regarding acts of commerce (in the Hispanic nations, they have this more defined and better explained as Uses and Customs). You have to prove that you are specifically selling the game to each patron, but that would be nearly impossible without the proper documentation that defines a commercial act. Even the email that you get every 1st of every month is a proof of not being a purchase, but rather a pledging. Even if you have a "paywall" (which really isn't due the very nature of Patreon) you can't really prove that you have purchased anything from the creators. Semantics are VERY important in this sort of stuff.

Still, you could still argue that some donators have access to things that others can't in exchange of donating more money, but what they get is not really a final product (altough i'm not sure if Discords for the game and such could be considered services) and the words pledge and donate are still being used instead of purchase, sell and buy.

 

[John The Boogeyman Wick]

The words used to describe the situation in which money is given are: "Donate" "pledge" among others. None of them can be used to describe a commercial transaction, it's not an act of commerce. You have to prove that you are specifically selling the game to each patron, but that would be nearly impossible without the proper documentation that defines a commercial act. Even the email that you get every 1st of every month is a proof of not being a purchase, but rather a pledging. Even if you have a "paywall" (which really isn't due the very nature of Patreon) you can't really prove that you have purchased anything from the creators. Semantics are VERY important in this sort of stuff.

You might be right. But that might change when they figure that out and start regulating websites to have proper transaction evidence. But I think were safe for now.
You must have taken some legal courses, with such a well defined legal vocabulary or have some experience with this subject.

 

[Teaber]

A comment from DMD's developer has been copied in the game's thread; from what he says, it seems the problem is incest-related content, not funding-related —let's call it that—. If that's true, we might be in that best-case scenario Rando Civ was pointing out. Let's hope so.

 

[Rando Civ]

Honestly, at this rate shit like this:


Will be necessary in everything.

 

[Claudio83]

Waiting for the walkthrought....

 

[Manos]

Waiting for the walkthrought....

You must be registered to see the links

 

[MrGhostRider]

Family members?

What does "Home Stories" means?? is it expansion to mother and sister part of the game or the main story expansion ?? or 14.5 implies just a small change/update?

 

[jcamby]

What does "Home Stories" means?? is it expansion to mother and sister part of the game or the main story expansion ?? or 14.5 implies just a small change/update?

This is what he said on his pateron:
What exactly is being done for 14.5:

• Home gameplay flow being re-coded using a new method that is less bug-prone and more flexible.
• New story content, cut-scenes, events and h-scenes.
• Improved home ending with better closure.
• New content surrounding Somrak and quests connected to him (panties).
• Somrak quest line with panties reworked
• Improved gameplay mechanics

I think only the Sister is getting new h-scenes though. I hope not, but I think that's the case.

Seeing as it's a 0.5 update though I wouldn't expect THAT much in way of changes. Maybe 2 or 3 extra things per character and one h-scene for the Sister.

 

[Claudio83]

You must be registered to see the links

Many thanks!!!

 

[SirAuron20]

is there any walkthrough besides the video ones?

 

[Arap12]

Just a heads up to DC

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Why that happened? is that because a parent found out that their kid was giving money to a H-game project on patreon?

"For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon."

This could be useful in a hypothetical case.

The real issue would be:

"Lastly, you cannot sell pornographic material or arrange sexual service(s) as a reward for your patrons. You can’t use Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material such as maintaining a website, funding the production of movies, or providing a private webcam session" along with the list of fetishes included in the other paragraph.

Which If you know the correct terminology, you could argue that you are not really selling the product but rather developing fiction or fantasy games with the donations (because really, you can obtain the game for free with a single donation, a donation by definition cannot be a payment, but again, I don't know a single thing about California Law). SS is not really any of the examples provided (as in movies and webcams), but it does have a webpage (they could mess with that shit) and it does have pornographic content, but really if its branded as "fiction" you could in theory be safe and not necessarily change much.

But honestly, another thing you could do is eliminate the blood relationship for a patreon version and put a "uncensored" version somewhere else. As long as you don't use part of that money to take care of said second source. But they could still get you for pornographic material.

Have to see if there is more information other than the one provided to the public in the Guidelines and the ToU.

(rant)

Seriously?
After taking all the money from all this time they just decide to go "Sorry no fetishes because it's wrong and offends us"
What a bunch of hypocritical prudes
This is literally unacceptable, all creators should just take off their games from there and move to another site to continue their work, without the H\games patreon would be dead.
This behaviour is so dumb considered that someone if it offends him\her it should just not go and search for that.
Parents should just watch their children instead of leaving them to the PC so they don't have to deal with them.

 

[mattius77]

I se a future where MC is actually adopted/stepchild or something like it.

There are many states in the US where that's still criminalized incest, even if both parties are consenting adults. The whole 'adopted' thing is a non-defense, which is why I don't quite get how that's become a thing in the porn world for 'mainstream' content creators like Brazzers and Bangbros.

 

[SengalBoi]

I think only the Sister is getting new h-scenes though. I hope not, but I think that's the case.

There's probably won't be many updates, but I do hope there will be a tease to more story developments. I don't expect that Aunt Diane will move into the house in the upcoming update, but I do hope it is being set up more.

 

[mattius77]

anybody else think the dad was secretly fucking the sister?

Absolutely. She even mentions that MC's dick might be bigger than Dad's in her diary. Sure, maybe she snooped and peeked at him and caught a glimpse.... but she's never really all that put off by MC's advances. She complains and calls him a perv, sure. But if she were really bent out of shape over MC's actions, the game would've ended like 20 minutes in, the first time he sneaks into the shower with her. So she's DTF within the confines of the family unit, if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[Arap12]

Absolutely. She even mentions that MC's dick might be bigger than Dad's in her diary. Sure, maybe she snooped and peeked at him and caught a glimpse.... but she's never really all that put off by MC's advances. She complains and calls him a perv, sure. But if she were really bent out of shape over MC's actions, the game would've ended like 20 minutes in, the first time he sneaks into the shower with her. So she's DTF within the confines of the family unit, if you'll pardon the pun.

I think that she just saw the Dad's dick in the shower same for the MC, he gave gifts to her, probably so she thought about it but didn't do it

 

[olicilo]

How can you load these saves they don't show up.

let me explain , all these saves are quick so for load you must rename all "quick" to "1" and they are showing up !

 

[Rando Civ]

There are many states in the US where that's still criminalized incest, even if both parties are consenting adults. The whole 'adopted' thing is a non-defense, which is why I don't quite get how that's become a thing in the porn world for 'mainstream' content creators like Brazzers and Bangbros.

Because those laws are irrelevant if your product is not made or distributed in said states or countries (international mechant law normally takes a big fat dump on local law whenever a single nation tries to apply their laws overseas, the US is specially guilty of this but all the time they are stopped of biting more than they can swallow), besides no one is ever going to seriously fine those companies when even goddamn senators enjoy them, it would be embarrassing. Also, big porn websites have HUGE legal teams with them that could eat you alive if your tried to, pardon the idiotic pun, fuck with them.

 

[johnny76]

Which is the differences between v014 and 014.1. Thanks and compliments for the forum.