Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5003] [Kompas Productions]

[Omnikuken]

ok so the patch works and doesnt affect content did I get that right?

What patch ? If you're talking about the wincest patch, all it does is change what Debbie/Jenny/Diane get called in the game. Since there's been nothing story-wise to change any of those 3's dialogue for over 2 years, the patch still works. Then the tech build comes out and laughs at everything, including saves

 

[ffive]

Then the tech build comes out and laughs at everything, including saves

Importing a handful of booleans and integers --which is what saves in these games boil down to-- isn't exactly rocket science. If the fabled tech update can't manage that after two years of work, it'd be downright embarrassing.

 

[thedemus]

I'm curious about something. Is to possible to change the chance of impregnating a girl via the console or something like that or is it a separate thing?

 

[Charta77]

Can anyone explain to me what the new "Tech update" means? It seems to me like a large update, or rework.

 

[JKTHEBOSS]

Can anyone explain to me what the new "Tech update" means? It seems to me like a large update, or rework.

Simply they are just reworking the game from half screen to full screen and don't know much about the new content

 

[Omnikuken]

Importing a handful of booleans and integers --which is what saves in these games boil down to-- isn't exactly rocket science. If the fabled tech update can't manage that after two years of work, it'd be downright embarrassing.

You can fuck your save game by changing 1 line of code that happens before your save point. Now imagine what'll happen when you redo the entire codebase

I'm curious about something. Is to possible to change the chance of impregnating a girl via the console or something like that or is it a separate thing?

No need to do anything like that. Either take the pills and hit CTRL when the spin-2-win game doesn't end up like you want or use the phone hax. Console is locked for a reason

Can anyone explain to me what the new "Tech update" means? It seems to me like a large update, or rework.

Summon the FAQ or search for it around here. It's only been posted ~65 times by now, shouldn't be too hard to find

 

[srksrk 68]

Importing a handful of booleans and integers --which is what saves in these games boil down to-- isn't exactly rocket science. If the fabled tech update can't manage that after two years of work, it'd be downright embarrassing.

Sure. I'm positive you could also produce valid saves by providing the right seed to the random number generator of your choice. I've heard that's how Microsoft compiles Windows.

 

[Omnikuken]

Sure. I'm positive you could also produce valid saves by providing the right seed to the random number generator of your choice. I've heard that's how Microsoft compiles Windows.

That does explain a lot indeed

 

[ffive]

You can fuck your save game by changing 1 line of code that happens before your save point. Now imagine what'll happen when you redo the entire codebase

That's for standard loading of saves which is built into Renpy, and it has to do with how it saves the scene you have currently open etc. But it's not what am talking about, which is just import/extraction and conversion of values of (known) variables from the file to corresponding new variables (if these even actually changed), while ignoring stuff that you know is no longer compatible.

 

[Omnikuken]

That's for standard loading of saves which is built into Renpy, and it has to do with how it saves the scene you have currently open etc. But it's not what am talking about, which is just import/extraction and conversion of values of (known) variables from the file to corresponding new variables (if these even actually changed), while ignoring stuff that you know is no longer compatible.

Guess you're better at this than the last ~5 coders, since the saves weren't compatible between builds from 0.1 to ~0.16, and even now are funky as all hell. Or not. The tech build will still scrap everything, whether or not it makes any sense

 

[ffive]

Guess you're better at this than the last ~5 coders, since the saves weren't compatible between builds from 0.1 to ~0.16, and even now are funky as all hell. Or not. The tech build will still scrap everything, whether or not it makes any sense

I'd guess they simply didn't see the need to bother, with what was effectively ongoing development of the same (poor) codebase with frequent updates... but if there's any point for taking care to do import/export from old code to new one, it'd be this. Although on the other hand there might be some validity in not wanting the old saves to be compatible -- i mean, if you've spent last two years redoing your art, then you'll probably want people to see it, even if it means burning their old saves to force them to play through whole game again :v

 

[Count Morado]

I'd guess they simply didn't see the need to bother, with what was effectively ongoing development of the same (poor) codebase with frequent updates... but if there's any point for taking care to do import/export from old code to new one, it'd be this. Although on the other hand there might be some validity in not wanting the old saves to be compatible -- i mean, if you've spent last two years redoing your art, then you'll probably want people to see it, even if it means burning their old saves to force them to play through whole game again :v

I don't see what the big deal is about needing saves compatible? If you have completed all the old content, just start at the new content in the update using the prompt provided and then answer a few questions such as Eve's identity and whether you shared with Tony. Less than a couple of minutes and you can enjoy new content. If you haven't completed the old content, do that first and then download the update. If you haven't started the old content, immediately download the update and play from day one.

Why is it important for an old save to be compatible if you're provided a way to start at new content?

 

[ffive]

Why is it important for an old save to be compatible if you're provided a way to start at new content?

So you don't have to manually answer questions about what you did in game when you last played it 2+ years ago.

 

[Count Morado]

So you don't have to manually answer questions about what you did in game when you last played it 2+ years ago.

If that is what you call important, you need to up your medication. Answer the 2-4 questions takes less than a minute of time. Thanks for dodging actually answering the question with valid concerns.

 

[srksrk 68]

If that is what you call important, you need to up your medication. Answer the 2-4 questions takes less than a minute of time. Thanks for dodging actually answering the question with valid concerns.

To be honest, if they only wanted they could automate that when loading an older save.

I want to make a point for the game though, and how it handles saves. I actually find it quite clever. It has bugs, yes, but it is the right principle for a state driven game like this. Actually, when a save is loaded, they replay the trigger chain and apply each trigger to each state machine, so that in theory each one will advance to the state it had when the save was created. Only exceptions are things that do not depend on state machines, like names or variables that advance independently or randomly.

The drawback is that, whenever the new game version, for example, requires different trigger sequences to advance the story, older saves must become incompatible. This is why they have some special coding for older saves in place that executes whenever such a save is being loaded. There had been bugs in the past with that, e.g. Jenny not being able to become pregnant if her story was too far advanced already, and the trigger for that was not correctly replayed. Or Maria not being available in the storage room and the player not being able to leave without talking to her.

 

[Omnikuken]

I don't see what the big deal is about needing saves compatible? If you have completed all the old content, just start at the new content in the update using the prompt provided and then answer a few questions such as Eve's identity and whether you shared with Tony. Less than a couple of minutes and you can enjoy new content. If you haven't completed the old content, do that first and then download the update. If you haven't started the old content, immediately download the update and play from day one.

Why is it important for an old save to be compatible if you're provided a way to start at new content?

Though the "start with new content" only came with the batches (since most of them are mid-route) ...... But then you only need to know what you're doing and keep the same save for 3+ years and don't have anything bug out (which is apparently a feat on its own for this place)

 

[MurkyTurtle]

To be honest, if they only wanted they could automate that when loading an older save.

I want to make a point for the game though, and how it handles saves. I actually find it quite clever. It has bugs, yes, but it is the right principle for a state driven game like this. Actually, when a save is loaded, they replay the trigger chain and apply each trigger to each state machine, so that in theory each one will advance to the state it had when the save was created. Only exceptions are things that do not depend on state machines, like names or variables that advance independently or randomly.

The drawback is that, whenever the new game version, for example, requires different trigger sequences to advance the story, older saves must become incompatible. This is why they have some special coding for older saves in place that executes whenever such a save is being loaded. There had been bugs in the past with that, e.g. Jenny not being able to become pregnant if her story was too far advanced already, and the trigger for that was not correctly replayed. Or Maria not being available in the storage room and the player not being able to leave without talking to her.

Interesting save process! Do you know why they recommend saving on the bedroom/map screen, then? I'm guessing it simplifies the save compatibility coding you described by ensuring that you're not in the middle of an event or location where an event can trigger whenever it finishes the magic conversion wizardry.

Also, do you happen to know if other sandbox-like Ren'Py games (e.g., Milfy City, FILF, Mythic Manor, etc.) use a similar process? You rarely hear about save compatibility problems outside of Summertime Saga, though admittedly the types of major content rework that they've done are unusual in this field.

 

[Omnikuken]

Interesting save process! Do you know why they recommend saving on the bedroom/map screen, then? I'm guessing it simplifies the save compatibility coding you described by ensuring that you're not in the middle of an event or location where an event can trigger whenever it finishes the magic conversion wizardry.

Also, do you happen to know if other sandbox-like Ren'Py games (e.g., Milfy City, FILF, Mythic Manor, etc.) use a similar process? You rarely hear about save compatibility problems outside of Summertime Saga, though admittedly the types of major content rework that they've done are unusual in this field.

1st part : It's probably as you said, there's nothing happening in the room (aside some phone calls/SMS that'd trigger anyway) and another layer of cockblocking you from saving mid-event (that we already know will fuck up everything)

2nd part : Save comp on Renpy fucks up everytime you change something prior to the save point. Go look any game in here and most of them will have "saves don't work cause I changed the intro" or something similar. Best way to skip that is to "code forward" and never touch stuff from before or to restart everything and tell people their saves are useless.

 

[ffive]

If that is what you call important, you need to up your medication. Answer the 2-4 questions takes less than a minute of time. Thanks for dodging actually answering the question with valid concerns.

Your not liking the answer doesn't make it dodging, sugar. And save your medical advice for yourself; believe it or not, plenty people don't bother to remember what choices they made in one of dozens of porn games they've played literally years ago. That's what computers are for, to do menial tasks so their users don't have to.

 

[srksrk 68]

Interesting save process! Do you know why they recommend saving on the bedroom/map screen, then? I'm guessing it simplifies the save compatibility coding you described by ensuring that you're not in the middle of an event or location where an event can trigger whenever it finishes the magic conversion wizardry.

That's most likely the reason. However, if they'd put more effort in making it all bullet proof, there would be no reason for that. Also, they could easily enable rollback and only block any attempt to roll back over internal changes to state machines. That way it would be possible to have rollback for large parts of dialogs without any state changes, or of course in cookie jar scenes where nothing is being saved at all.

You can have all that with my mod btw.

Also, do you happen to know if other sandbox-like Ren'Py games (e.g., Milfy City, FILF, Mythic Manor, etc.) use a similar process? You rarely hear about save compatibility problems outside of Summertime Saga, though admittedly the types of major content rework that they've done are unusual in this field.

I only looked into coding in detail for Summertime Saga. I also wrote smaller mods for personal use for a few other games a while ago, mostly Lab Rats 2 and Witch Trainer. The two have a completely different code base. I did not look into the save process there. The second one was long finished when I modded it, so no compatibilty problem there, and the first one seems to require new saves each release, at least when I played it.