VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.982] [WeirdWorld]

[Drearash]

Yeah...that's not how that works bud. There are plenty of deets ya chose to ignore just to drive your simplistic point to make me look wrong.

This isn't some simple answer question, many factors could play a part and in the case of discussing Deus; there is.

Deus knew ahead of time that it was going to happen AND works for the bank. That's like being a security guard on the fucking cameras and NOT stopping the crime. By definition you are helping that criminal (Ella) commit the crime by not doing your job. If you aren't an accomplice after that then you have some serious self justification issues.

In many parts of the world, bank employees are trained *not* to resist armed robberies. It is bank policy to cooperate and not put people in danger by being trying to be a hero. That's what insurance is for. Heroes who try to stop robberies can actually get fired for violating policy, because it creates a needless liability for the bank, and can actually endanger the aforementioned insurance.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

I only wanted a yes or no answer. Everything else you have to say after that point is irrelevant. I don't care how you feel about it. I don't care what reason you have for it. Deus didn't help Ella infiltrate HERO by minding his own business and letting it happen. The person he actually helped infiltrate HERO is MC by physically letting him in in the base.

It's actually rich that you choose not to acknowledge him "helping" Ella by seeing and ignoring her actions, yet acknowledge Deus "helping" the MC for doing the exact same thing. He:
A. Knew it was going to happen.
B. Stood by and let it happen.
And yet...I'm getting these delusional mixed results for the same actions here...hm...

 

[ItzSyther]

1)As i said - you get 1 out 10 people on Jake lvl at best. An if you even get them here you get at least 3 major problems : there is problem with motivation (why he would fight for you and risk his life?), control (Jake took whole Sector and Dexter himself under control. No need to say how dangerous it was and it cost at least several hundreds soldiers lifes and one lvl 4 super human agent. This was just one dude and you need to control hundreds or even thousands of them) and loyalty (what would prevent this new recruits, after you turn him in lvl 3, just betray you and change side for whatever reason? SIN solve this problem with oath and tatoo...HERO have nothing similar. I mean, yeah, part of them which are conscripts take bomb in their head and heart, but normal recruits are clean)
.
2)Well, in game at least month pass since Diamond battle. SIN start it active recruitment earlier (at least after Ella kids announce themselves on TV broadcast. Maybe even earlier). Which mean they get at least 1,5-2 months
.
3)For something like this (control dozen lvl 3 at once and probably across the globe) you need have adamant trust in Jake and Melody (because what if they decide to turn their guns on you at most pivotal moment?). They, themself should be at least on lvl 4 (otherwise they would have trouble to control even single lvl 3). Not to mention that combat effectiveness of such method would be under the question
.
4)Well even dumb monsters attacking several cities across the globe was enough to overrun HERO (which is why they start al this recruitment process). Here we have well-coordinate humans (like group of terrorist) with tactical advantage, surprise factor on their side. There is no need for them to go into frontal attack - diversions on key infrastructure, assassination of HERO supporters, causing chaos - this kind of shit would be very easy to do for former soldiers and mercenaries with super powers. Not to mention - they have full support from SIN = save house (for example Alice was able to hide with Michail for weeks while everyone seek them), information, weapons, fresh recruits, god knows how many traitors in local HERO department or Government forces (police, army, etc).
.
So this is way more complex shit then just go and attack city spearhead - this tactic will force special HERO groups to stick in this cities for MONTHS of exhausting "hide and seek" game combine with "Mafia" in order to lure such SIN group out and exterminate them for good. HERO just was not desine for this kind of shit and if they End up enable to protect people from those terrorist attack...Well, then their support from population would collapse down to zero

1. The easiest method of control for HERO is well...obvious, they have people such as Jake and Melody, they most likely have more. If mind control is 'too much' for some members then they can do as ol Bern boi suggested using force which is no joke the reason why Jake joined (something I think you're forgetting) no matter how strong Jake gets he cannot fight against the level 5s, the existence of Deus will ensure he remains loyal (and Zach as well) da timelords.

2. The people SIN were recruiting were superhumans in hiding not soldiers (few if any soldiers were superhumans by that point), the soldiers themselves are recent and even Amber/Liz's dad mentions as such.

3. Clearly the higher ups of HERO trust Melody enough to the point they (Nyx) suggests they mind control the new recruits they have via her power. We have can actually prove the combat effectiveness isn't in question, we see it at least in Jake's case, all the soldiers/cops at the governor's mansion performed as they usually would have in a combat scenario but under jake's direct control (orders).

4. You're putting way too much faith into level 1 superhumans even if they are former soldiers they won't compare to those above them and the evidence points to the fact even a regular human can get lucky and off them.

Mind you, HERO was completely caught off guard via the rise in monster attacks across those cities and with the MC breaking into SIN he most likely caught some data regarding potential SIN attack targets so that point is somewhat moot but we'll see.

But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter since the MC is heading into the SIN stuff next update we'll see just how good the soldiers are...or they'll get wiped when encountering a level 3 (thats if the MC has no choice but to drop stealth since its an infiltration job).

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

In many parts of the world, bank employees are trained *not* to resist armed robberies. It is bank policy to cooperate and not put people in danger by being trying to be a hero. That's what insurance is for. Heroes who try to stop robberies can actually get fired for violating policy, because it creates a needless liability for the bank, and can actually endanger the aforementioned insurance.

That's very true, what do they say about warning people though? As far as we know with Deus's future sight he probably caught whiff of this event hours or even days prior to it's occurrence. So if a bank security guard knew that information in advance and didn't tell his employers where would he fall in? Just pure curiosity.

(Not that H.E.R.O has the same principles)

 

[DrakoGhoul]

It's actually rich that you choose not to acknowledge him "helping" Ella by seeing and ignoring her actions, yet acknowledge Deus "helping" the MC for doing the exact same thing. He:
A. Knew it was going to happen.
B. Stood by and let it happen.
And yet...I'm getting these delusional mixed results for the same actions here...hm...

Imagine falling for the bait and actually thinking that's a gotcha.

Deus physically lets the MC in HERO, he opens the elevator and everything. Deus wasn't even at the base when Ella infiltrated at the start. He comes specifically to let the MC. But sure, pop off.

 

[Drearash]

That's very true, what do they say about warning people though?

Not sure. It's also a different point from the one I was responding to. What you wrote was:

"That's like being a security guard on the fucking cameras and NOT stopping the crime. By definition you are helping that criminal (Ella) commit the crime by not doing your job."

Nothing about warning people.

As far as we know with Deus's future sight he probably caught whiff of this event hours or even days prior to it's occurrence.

Do we actually know that? Or are we talking fan theories now?

So if a bank security guard knew that information in advance and didn't tell his employers where would he fall in? Just pure curiosity.

That would indeed be a different situation. But I would repeat my questions above.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Imagine falling for the bait and actually thinking that's a gotcha.

Deus physically lets the MC in HERO, he opens the elevator and everything. Deus wasn't even at the base when Ella infiltrated at the start. He comes specifically to let the MC. But sure, pop off.

Dammit you cunt...you're right, but hang on I got this.

Lexi said he went out and that he should be back any moment now. For all we know he was just minding his own business? Eh? Took me 5 seconds to come up with that one. Oh well, my original point still stands; he knows far ahead of time of Ella's arrival but chooses not to share that information with his organization, plain and simple. So he's either the finest employee of all time by your standards or he's indirectly helping her by knowing not saying anything.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Not sure. It's also a different point from the one I was responding to. What you wrote was:

"That's like being a security guard on the fucking cameras and NOT stopping the crime. By definition you are helping that criminal (Ella) commit the crime by not doing your job."

Nothing about warning people.



Do we actually know that? Or are we talking fan theories now?



That would indeed be a different situation. But I would repeat my questions above.

Not fan theories; H.E.R.O relies on Deus to tell them of Monster attacks and events before they happen around the globe so I'm 90% sure his future sight works a little past a few fuckin seconds unless all of H.E.R.O travels at light speed.

Now the different situation DOES apply to Deus, so where does that fall into banking security laws?

 

[Drearash]

Not fan theories; H.E.R.O relies on Deus to tell them of Monster attacks and events before they happen around the globe so I'm 90% sure his future sight works a little past a few fuckin seconds unless all of H.E.R.O travels at light speed.

We'll call it a "reasonable inference", then.

Now the different situation DOES apply to Deus, so where does that fall into banking security laws?

No idea. It was your analogy and you've since changed it.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

We'll call it a "reasonable inference", then.



No idea. It was your analogy and you've since changed it.

So if a bank security guard (Deus) knew that information in advance and didn't tell his employers (H.E.R.O) where would he fall in terms of liability if any? Just pure curiosity.

Trying to compare the in-game situation with an irl situation.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

Dammit you cunt...you're right, but hang on I got this.

Lexi said he went out and that he should be back any moment now. For all we know he was just minding his own business? Eh? Took me 5 seconds to come up with that one. Oh well, my original point still stands; he knows far ahead of time of Ella's arrival but chooses not to share that information with his organization, plain and simple. So he's either the finest employee of all time by your standards or he's indirectly helping her by not saying anything.

Lexi told Clark that Deus is back. As they went inside, Malik tells them Deus went out but he should be back soon. Guess what happened when he actually got back? He let the MC come in by pressing the elevator and directly talking to him before telling him he should leave before getting swept up in the infiltration. That's actually helping someone do something they shouldn't be doing and fully being an accomplice.

I also think your misunderstanding something about Deus with your "his organization" comment. A lot of you forget that Deus is on his own time, figuratively and literally. He's not loyal to anyone but the future. MC is a very important part so he'll help him along. Ella plays a part in the MC's future so he won't halt her plan. That doesn't mean he's actively helping her succeed like he does with the MC. That just means he's going let her do whatever she wants up until whatever plan she has comes to completion.

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Lexi told Clark that Deus is back. As they went inside, Malik tells them Deus went out but he should be back soon. Guess what happened when he actually got back? He let the MC come in by pressing the elevator and directly talking to him before telling him he should leave before getting swept up in the infiltration. That's actually helping someone do something they shouldn't be doing and fully being an accomplice.

I also think your misunderstanding something about Deus with your "his organization" comment. A lot of you forget that Deus is on his own time, figuratively and literally. He's not loyal to anyone but the future. MC is a very important part so he'll help him along. Ella plays a part in the MC's future so he won't halt her plan. That doesn't mean he's actively helping her succeed like he does with the MC. That just means he's going let her do whatever she wants up until whatever plan she has comes to completion.

I'm aware he's not really loyal to anyone, though his objective still alludes me.

So it would be safe to say, like the MC asked; he WOULD not capture her until she's finished her work? Therefore wouldn't he technically be helping her albeit indirectly in some cases if say:
A. He let her break into their facility and Evolve to Level 5.
B. Chose to "sit out" (night terrors) when H.E.R.O was discussing what they knew about Ella.
C. H.E.R.O thought they killed her and he failed to mention the information that she still poses a threat in the foreseeable future?
D. Knowing what her plan is yet not telling anyone who may try and stop it?

I dunno, if someone did allll that for me I would consider that help, despite whatever underlining intentions their end goal actually is. At the very least, right now, he HAS helped her, though he's also went against her at the same time obviously. They are technically "enemies" but as of right now I'd say they are distanced "frienemies" till she completes whatever task Deus needs done.

On an unrelated side notes:
Deus said that there were going to be simultaneous attacks around the Sectors. I can't remember if they elaborated further but did that ACTUALLY happen? I'm assuming it did given Bernhardt's travel speed but if it didn't perhaps that was to prolong the main fight so that we could Evolve properly against Deryl.

I also find it funny that anyone in their right mind would trust Deus. Given his ability he'd be able to live or even beat however or whomever he wanted, so the fact that he CHOSE to come to H.E.R.O willingly especially given how shifty he is would set off my red flags. Zack makes sense cause he helped WAYYY back originally and you can see where his loyalties lie, but Deus...they don't really know Deus. The only one I've seen wary of him is Dexter, but Malik and the rest of the Lucifer squad practically love him.

 

[lg545]

1. The easiest method of control for HERO is well...obvious, they have people such as Jake and Melody, they most likely have more. If mind control is 'too much' for some members then they can do as ol Bern boi suggested using force which is no joke the reason why Jake joined (something I think you're forgetting) no matter how strong Jake gets he cannot fight against the level 5s, the existence of Deus will ensure he remains loyal (and Zach as well) da timelords.

2. The people SIN were recruiting were superhumans in hiding not soldiers (few if any soldiers were superhumans by that point), the soldiers themselves are recent and even Amber/Liz's dad mentions as such.

3. Clearly the higher ups of HERO trust Melody enough to the point they (Nyx) suggests they mind control the new recruits they have via her power. We have can actually prove the combat effectiveness isn't in question, we see it at least in Jake's case, all the soldiers/cops at the governor's mansion performed as they usually would have in a combat scenario but under jake's direct control (orders).

4. You're putting way too much faith into level 1 superhumans even if they are former soldiers they won't compare to those above them and the evidence points to the fact even a regular human can get lucky and off them.

Mind you, HERO was completely caught off guard via the rise in monster attacks across those cities and with the MC breaking into SIN he most likely caught some data regarding potential SIN attack targets so that point is somewhat moot but we'll see.

But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter since the MC is heading into the SIN stuff next update we'll see just how good the soldiers are...or they'll get wiped when encountering a level 3 (thats if the MC has no choice but to drop stealth since its an infiltration job).

1. And this was the problem that was discuss by captains in last update. Ofcourse you can mind control your recruits or force them into obedience...Problem is if information about mind control leak out (and it will)...well... you recruitment is complete bust. You become "bad guy" in public eyes. People would run from you as fast as they could and join SIN instead. Option with forcing into obedience would create a shitty soldiers (who in sane mind would be positive to risk their own lifes for bunch of assholes who treating you?) and make good soil for all kind of traitors. Best soldiers come from volunteers or at least patriotic citizens who understand why it is important and ready to serve in order to protect what dare to them
.
Dont forget - Jake is a criminal (its Okey to put some sort of restrictions on him), but majority of fresh recruts are not. They are just normal citizens who become a monster target
.
2.Question is - how many information Amber\Liz dad actually know? For recruit who did not pass even initiation - i doubt he knew a lot. Was Natan (Amber\Liz dad) among first wave of former soldiers hired by SIN or they already did this for some period of time? Also, we saw how Claus father give all his mafia goons to SIN. Question is - how many other criminal organisations did exactly the same? What about prisons? I mean - this is best recruit base ever consider SIN connections inside Government. Etc...
.
3.Would Melody able to perform something like that? Lvl 3 are strong enough and you need control them in mass...And even if you able to do this - who would act as an field officer? I mean even under mind control - they still would be lvl 3 civilians without any knowledge about how perform field operations (they cant execute the order if they dont know how to do it). You need some experience veteran officer to guide them
.
4. I put so much trust in lvl 1 because there is no need for them engage HERO in direct fight. They could use gurella tactics on planet scale which is most obvious weak point of HERO. Yep, captains are ridiculously strong but in this battle there is no "Big Boss" you can punch in face and win. It is wide spread web of very professional terrorist groups with huge financial support and public opinion on their side (well, huge chunk of it). Dont forget - HERO is drive into the corner by War on all sides (monsters, SIN, public opinion and politicians) and huge problem with baby sitting fresh recruits , while SIN dont have such restrictions.

Yep, some SIN groups end up being catch or destroyed, but this is the point of the web structure - such losses dont effect on your fighting in general (this is how Taliban win against USA in Afganistan)
.
5. Well current situation with SIN is very close to situation in 2-d Star Wars movie "Attack of the Clones" - you have all Separatist leaders gather in one place. If you manage to capture\kill them, then you would be able to prevent biggest Civil War in history, but if you fail...Well, say hello to the Clone Wars and Order 66 in the end

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I'm aware he's not really loyal to anyone, though his objective still alludes me.

So it would be safe to say, like the MC asked; he WOULD not capture her until she's finished her work? Therefore wouldn't he technically be helping her albeit indirectly in some cases if say:
A. He let her break into their facility and Evolve to Level 5.
B. Chose to "sit out" (night terrors) when H.E.R.O was discussing what they knew about Ella.
C. H.E.R.O thought they killed her and he failed to mention the information that she still poses a threat in the foreseeable future?
D. Knowing what her plan is yet not telling anyone who may try and stop it?

I dunno, if someone did allll that for me I would consider that help, despite whatever underlining intentions their end goal actually is. At the very least, right now, he HAS helped her, though he's also went against her at the same time obviously. They are technically "enemies" but as of right now I'd say they are distanced "frienemies" till she completes whatever task Deus needs done.

On an unrelated side notes:
Deus said that there were going to be simultaneous attacks around the Sectors. I can't remember if they elaborated further but did that ACTUALLY happen? I'm assuming it did given Bernhardt's travel speed but if it didn't perhaps that was to prolong the main fight so that we could Evolve properly against Deryl.

I also find it funny that anyone in their right mind would trust Deus. Given his ability he'd be able to live or even beat however or whomever he wanted, so the fact that he CHOSE to come to H.E.R.O willingly especially given how shifty he is would set off my red flags. Zack makes sense cause he helped WAYYY back originally and you can see where his loyalties lie, but Deus...they don't really know Deus. The only one I've seen wary of him is Dexter, but Malik and the rest of the Lucifer squad practically love him.

A. How would her reaching Level 5 help her when now she has an even bigger target on her back for infiltrating their base? This is now with 12 Level 5's coming for her instead of 3 originally. I don't know how you think that helps her. HERO was quite literally letting her do whatever before the infiltration and now she's "dead".

B. How does Deus sitting out for the Hex fight because of Night Terrors correlate to helping Ella? The night terror scene is in reference to Hex and SIN coming on TV and fighting against Nico. Even during the planning period afterwards, they were strategizing over how to handle her. Deus not being involved says nothing at all.

C. We haven't even seen the fall out yet, you're jumping way ahead. As far as everyone else is concerned, Ella is dead. We don't know how this is going to turn out besides the fact that she's obviously not dead.

D. I'm not even sure why you mentioned this one here. We already went over this. He's also not obligated to tell HERO anything and even HERO themselves know this and points out that very thing during MC's identity reveal. They already know he doesn't tell them everything so it's a moot point.

Deus letting events occur doesn't mean he's helping Ella. If we went with that logic, Deus is helping everybody since he knows the future. He's helping SIN, MC, Monsters, HERO, Ella, MC's future children and so on.

 

[ItzSyther]

1. And this was the problem that was discuss by captains in last update. Ofcourse you can mind control your recruits or force them into obedience...Problem is if information about mind control leak out (and it will)...well... you recruitment is complete bust. You become "bad guy" in public eyes. People would run from you as fast as they could and join SIN instead. Option with forcing into obedience would create a shitty soldiers (who in sane mind would be positive to risk their own lifes for bunch of assholes who treating you?) and make good soil for all kind of traitors. Best soldiers come from volunteers or at least patriotic citizens who understand why it is important and ready to serve in order to protect what dare to them
.
Dont forget - Jake is a criminal (its Okey to put some sort of restrictions on him), but majority of fresh recruts are not. They are just normal citizens who become a monster target
.
2.Question is - how many information Amber\Liz dad actually know? For recruit who did not pass even initiation - i doubt he knew a lot. Was Natan (Amber\Liz dad) among first wave of former soldiers hired by SIN or they already did this for some period of time? Also, we saw how Claus father give all his mafia goons to SIN. Question is - how many other criminal organisations did exactly the same? What about prisons? I mean - this is best recruit base ever consider SIN connections inside Government. Etc...
.
3.Would Melody able to perform something like that? Lvl 3 are strong enough and you need control them in mass...And even if you able to do this - who would act as an field officer? I mean even under mind control - they still would be lvl 3 civilians without any knowledge about how perform field operations (they cant execute the order if they dont know how to do it). You need some experience veteran officer to guide them
.
4. I put so much trust in lvl 1 because there is no need for them engage HERO in direct fight. They could use gurella tactics on planet scale which is most obvious weak point of HERO. Yep, captains are ridiculously strong but in this battle there is no "Big Boss" you can punch in face and win. It is wide spread web of very professional terrorist groups with huge financial support and public opinion on their side (well, huge chunk of it). Dont forget - HERO is drive into the corner by War on all sides (monsters, SIN, public opinion and politicians) and huge problem with baby sitting fresh recruits , while SIN dont have such restrictions.

Yep, some SIN groups end up being catch or destroyed, but this is the point of the web structure - such losses dont effect on your fighting in general (this is how Taliban win against USA in Afganistan)
.
5. Well current situation with SIN is very close to situation in 2-d Star Wars movie "Attack of the Clones" - you have all Separatist leaders gather in one place. If you manage to capture\kill them, then you would be able to prevent biggest Civil War in history, but if you fail...Well, say hello to the Clone Wars and Order 66 in the end

We'll see with the next update which I'm sure is going to result in many deaths for the soldiers if the MC's cover is blown (or he breaks it willingly) during infiltration.

Time for me to dream many dreams over Lady Shadow

Good night everyonessss

 

[Drearash]

So if a bank security guard (Deus) knew that information in advance and didn't tell his employers (H.E.R.O) where would he fall in terms of liability if any? Just pure curiosity.

Trying to compare the in-game situation with an irl situation.

What part of "no idea" did you not understand?

 

[TheEternalHellWalker]

Lmao! And the fucking music just cutting out is the icing on the cake. Even without the porn the premise and story are great.

 

[RogueEagle]

I feel like Ella was caught on purpose, because she made that heart artefact and never used it, or did she...

 

[lg545]

I feel like Ella was caught on purpose, because she made that heart artefact and never used it, or did she...

Deryl finish it or he just bullshiting her?

 

[Gtdead]

Deus letting events occur doesn't mean he's helping Ella. If we went with that logic, Deus is helping everybody since he knows the future. He's helping SIN, MC, Monsters, HERO, Ella, MC's future children and so on.

Well that's the thing. We know what Deus helps with, because he tells us so.

You "Then shouldn't you go... I don't know, capture her, or something?"
Deus "My venerable leader would certainly think so. Malik has wanted to end her rampage for some time now."
Deus "However, I'm going to need her work completed if this whole mess is going to be sorted."

If saying that "Deus helped Ella" is wrong, then the same applies for "Deus helped MC". There is no helping one without helping the other. MC has personal gain through surviving and becoming stronger, Ella also has personal gain because her plan is her dream (she says so in deadend2).

Deus doesn't give a shit about either MC or Ella. He only cares about the endgame which is Ella's work being completed. These 2 individuals are part of it so his actions and his inactions will benefit both. Deus will not remain a bystander if an action threaten's Ella's work. Thankfully for him, he can predict events so he doesn't have to be in such a position.

The thing about being proactive, is that you have already created the necessary conditions for the desired effect to happen.

If Deus kills the Hexenringe, Malik will kill or capture Jared, Cole, Zara and Charlie, SIN will crumble and Charlie won't be able to continue searching for the stones. So yes, he even helps SIN, but it's part of his plan to see Ella's work completed.

Deus going "after" the Hexenringe allows him to have precise control over the events. If he allowed Alexis to go after it and she managed to kill it, his plan would fail.