Intelligence manifests in many ways.
The MC is not academically smart. And his dumber moments are sometimes for comedy
The MC is not academically smart. And his dumber moments are sometimes for comedy
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The thing is "our" MC are not the same? Anything that is directly tied to a choice cant be said to "be a trait for MC" if choosing the other option results in something else.
Some examples:
MC for you might hate his dad
MC for you might have done liz ntr
MC for you might kill and eat everyone you can
There are also things in game that are presented as choices where you can still glean "canon" stuff about MC from like the scene at the bonfire, we are clearly shown there that he values his friends over the faceless people the choice is just how much more he values them. I never said MC is not applying himself to his powers just saying that he objectively is not doing it "to perfection" because there are examples (even excluding outliers) of people getting just as far or further with their powers than MC has and they did not have 120 power given to them in their sleep? The only real cost being him getting a literally splitting headache but since he is a shapeshifter he is fine literally within a minute,....... tbh Langdon was right about MC
Just for fun please keep in mind any variables reliant on power during the cole fight and if you would fail any of them after subtracting the dream training points then mc is reliant on dumb luck at least in part to beat cole not his hard work....
Not only was MC literally called smart in-game several times, but Met is the only other superhuman who has had his power for a similar amount of time and reached a similar level of power, though that is not to say he is stronger than MC, he is just a perfect counter to him. Twins are literally cheaters; if MC could evolve like twins, he would be at level five right now, it's not right to compare twins to regular superhumans. And the exception (Henri) said he evolved multiple times in a row, which is not how that usually works, and as far as we know has nothing to do with how the superhuman applied themselves, so calling that luck is pretty fair.
I'm not saying MC is Deryl levels of smart, but cmon, he is by no means stupid. He does not apply himself perfectly, but then again no one does.
And MCs intelligence is called into question multiple times as well, can you name a few examples of times MC is called smart that aren't reliant on a choice? I'm not doubting you I just can't recall them as easily as his dumbbrain moments.
I agree that MC does apply himself with his powers, it's Canon that he trains quite a bit, and that he is very adaptive with his powers however the post I quoted said:
"He only comes into his own when he gets his powers and applies himself to perfection with them."
Even a single example that is beyond him (met) objectively shows that MC is not doing it perfectly unless Met is doing it more perfectly or that met is reliant on more luck than the MC which given met/micheal upbrining i find extremely hard to believe, and we know that MC has to advantage of one of his parents being a literal child of an apostle another advantage that Met does not have.
- Jul 13, 2021
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I generally disagree with all the ideas that MC is dumb. Even if he is saying dumb things at time and doesn't have a mind for academics, he is quick on the uptake and he has strokes of genius.
In all the flashbacks to his earlier years he is very sharp. The amount of self reflection is very uncharacteristic of his age and he is very savvy. He also has very good control of his emotions and knows how to survive on his own. If I had to rate him only as a kid, I'd even call him a genius. ( I also fully relate with his ability to sleep in class and get "good" grades. I was also a long haired class sleeper with good grades ^^ )
As far as post-infection intelligence is concerned:
1. Despite having 0 combat experience, he quickly adapted to the challenges without much time to prepare.
2. He is very good at applying his powers in out of combat stuff, like playing poker.
3. He managed to keep his identity hidden despite being exposed to so much publicity, as a direct result of his preparation.
4. His approach to fighting Jake was genius and he went into it with the disadvantage of not knowing the extend of his powers while Jake knew about him both from Ella and all the videos of his superhero persona.
5. His mantis punch which was catalytic against Valravn was the result of tinkering and engineering. He adapted foreign physiology to his own in a way that it's not just effective but absolutely fearsome to face.
Despite how "simple" MC may seem at times, his way of fighting is complex and he employs multiple tactics, making him a very difficult enemy to face even without the regeneration. It's technical and precise, even if he has to rely on his regeneration to overcome his lack of experience. A simple guy would just build a big fist. MC's approach was far more methodical.
In all the flashbacks to his earlier years he is very sharp. The amount of self reflection is very uncharacteristic of his age and he is very savvy. He also has very good control of his emotions and knows how to survive on his own. If I had to rate him only as a kid, I'd even call him a genius. ( I also fully relate with his ability to sleep in class and get "good" grades. I was also a long haired class sleeper with good grades ^^ )
As far as post-infection intelligence is concerned:
1. Despite having 0 combat experience, he quickly adapted to the challenges without much time to prepare.
2. He is very good at applying his powers in out of combat stuff, like playing poker.
3. He managed to keep his identity hidden despite being exposed to so much publicity, as a direct result of his preparation.
4. His approach to fighting Jake was genius and he went into it with the disadvantage of not knowing the extend of his powers while Jake knew about him both from Ella and all the videos of his superhero persona.
5. His mantis punch which was catalytic against Valravn was the result of tinkering and engineering. He adapted foreign physiology to his own in a way that it's not just effective but absolutely fearsome to face.
Despite how "simple" MC may seem at times, his way of fighting is complex and he employs multiple tactics, making him a very difficult enemy to face even without the regeneration. It's technical and precise, even if he has to rely on his regeneration to overcome his lack of experience. A simple guy would just build a big fist. MC's approach was far more methodical.
- Apr 21, 2022
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Agree with everything but wasn't mc trained by his dad during his younger years.Mayhe you were only talking about real life combat rather than sparring and training.
- Jul 13, 2021
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He supposedly had some martial arts training but according to him it wasn't that big of a deal. And going by his performance against kid Deryl, I'd say that this is accurate. It's also the fact that he never does anything martial-artsy, at least not before training with Michael.
Didn't MCs teacher tell syla that MCs grades weren't as high as they could be then went on to blame her? I always read that as a more C average type of thing rather than A/B (which I would call "good grades") Liz is more of the "kid genius" who can "can sleep in class and then get good grades while having long(ish) hair" imo
MC also doesn't seem like him having "less than good grades" in college is a new thing he is dealing with either which furthers the idea he is used to mediocre grades but that could also be him just realizing that monsters>grades.
Mc playing poker (or cheating better than alice) is reliant on player choices so you can't say MC is always that good with his powers early on
His preparation for hiding his identity are covering his face with armor (arguably he needs it just for protection not hiding identity), having that mask slightly muffle his voice (liz figures that shit out fast tho), he doesn't even have a hero name until deryl says "Yeah what's your HERO name"
really none of the stuff was even made to protect his identity (other than name which is made up on the spot) it all just "happened" to protect it.I agree that the mantis punch is one of the best arguments for his intelligence but again that's directly realted to combat and without his particular infection his learning style of "bang head against wall until it works" the mantis punch would have taken much much longer to train
Much like Micheal MC has good "fight IQ" but is lacking in other ( arguably more than they are proficient in) intelligences. For all his knowledge/experience Micheal is socially dumb af (interrupting mc/emily, having to be told that him/liz/amber are friends).
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Not about to replay the whole early game to confirm but I'm pretty sure Ella called MC a fast learner, and Deryl and Liz said he'd have great grades if he studied more, not to mention his grades in middle and high school were apparently good even though he always slept in class. Besides, I'm pretty sure Deryl is pretty reliable when it comes to intelligence.
As for Met, he hasn't necessarily been applying himself better than MC. In fact, MC and Met are pretty similar power-wise: they both got their powers at a very similar time, and they are both level three. The only thing separating them is MC's established weakness to lightning and electricity which makes any fight between them unfair, regardless of whether Met was level three or level one. The only thing that can be specifically argued he's better at than MC is fighting skill, as he was trained from childhood in a similar way to Micheal, so it would make sense if he's more skilled, but he also had more time to train.
- Jan 27, 2021
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1. No one who has good fight IQ is stupid. You need to be smart to understand fighting well.
2. All your examples of superhumans superior to him make no sense:
- There's no reason to think Met is superior to him. They've both delved pretty deep into their powers and I don't think it's obvious who would win in a fight if MC wasn't particularly weak to lightning.
- The twins reached level 3 through a combination of their twin connection and an evolution serum. Nothing about their accomplishments indicate above-average intelligence, and anyway they got destroyed by the MC even though they double-teamed him and reached level 3 not that long after him.
- Evolving doesn't mean you're smart. It just happens as a result of some form of pressure. Henri surviving and not completely turning into a monster as a result of his rapid evolutions might say something, but there's nothing that says MC couldn't do the same. Even if what you're implying was true, though, Henri is literally the only example of this. That would be like saying someone isn't intelligent because they didn't come up with the Theory of Relativity.
3. Not sure how falling asleep in class indicates a lack of intelligence. If anything, the fact that the MC could graduate despite not even paying attention in class means he's probably at least above-average.
4. Him thinking Amber was the camgirl is not emblematic of low intelligence though? Smart people say and do dumb shit all the fucking time.
I think the problem here is that you just don't have a good understanding of what intelligence actually is.
You said Met is superior, which is unproven beyond his simple type advantage against MC.Where in the good name of fuck did I say MC would lose to met in a fight?
You claim that I don't know what intelligence "is" yet you've made up shit that I never said and then base part of your argument on that?
Edit: Did I say mc isn't applying himself concerning his powers, or did I say MC isn't doing it LITERALLY PERFECTLY
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From an education perspective, a student that sleeps in class loses a lot of context for the more complex topics. Being able to keep up without paying attention usually means that you are too good for the material and you just don't care about the grade. It's a common behavior, especially in the higher grades.Didn't MCs teacher tell syla that MCs grades weren't as high as they could be then went on to blame her? I always read that as a more C average type of thing rather than A/B (which I would call "good grades") Liz is more of the "kid genius" who can "can sleep in class and then get good grades while having long(ish) hair" imo
MC also doesn't seem like him having "less than good grades" in college is a new thing he is dealing with either which furthers the idea he is used to mediocre grades but that could also be him just realizing that monsters>grades.
Also Liz in particular had a swimming scholarship. It's Amber that has the general scholarship, which may indicate that Liz's grades weren't so hot and she just got it on her athletic merit. Of course I would never bet against Liz on anything, as she is the living expression of overwhelming talent, but that doesn't necessitate she had good grades. She could just do the bare minimum. She also had her mother pressuring her into excellence, which is a big factor in school, even if you end up hating your parents ^^
I don't think it's fair to say it's player choice. If you train enough to unlock the skill, MC acts accordingly. If not, he doesn't get the chance. Winning at poker isn't a series of player picking the correct response.Mc playing poker (or cheating better than alice) is reliant on player choices so you can't say MC is always that good with his powers early on
His preparation for hiding his identity are covering his face with armor (arguably he needs it just for protection not hiding identity), having that mask slightly muffle his voice (liz figures that shit out fast tho), he doesn't even have a hero name until deryl says "Yeah what's your HERO name"
Also MC protected his identity from Alexis. He always kept being in character, controlled his emotions. Unlike Jake who is a genius and was easily baited. This is also an argument about sharp instincts despite lacking information.
Well, there aren't many ways to train changing your body. He identified a problem and found a solution through experimentation. But the various structures he used weren't just random ideas. They were fairly scientific approaches with merit. Reinforce this bone, change the mass, do this, do that. He also had an understanding of the physics behind the mantis punch, knowing that scaling it up decreases it's efficiency.
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I'm specifically talking about him in middle school (parent teacher with syla). You could argue that the teacher just wants the best for all his students and even though MC is getting A's he could (somehow) be doing better.....but that same teacher is "blackamiled" by syla because she has big tits in a few seconds so I doubt their "merit" as a pure hearted teacher
imo it makes more sense that MC is getting Cs and stuff while sleeping in class clearly showing that he could be doing better but perhaps that's my apathy for the education system showing?Is there not any proof that Liz could have better grades than amber if she tried at all? That might be an assumption because (while they were still alive) amber had to put in tons of work to even be able to be around her in anything but maybe that's only physical stuff and academics is an exception to the usual amber/Liz dynamic
Unless I'm mistaken the poker is objectively "player choice" not in that you have to win a hand of poker as the player but that if you don't have enough training Stat you just don't beat alice at the party (or maybe after?) and she plays the game at the casino but the game continues on. WW even asked on stream a few weeks ago if he ended up putting it In the game or not. Just because almost everyone knows to listen to the big tiddy goth gf and train as much the game let's you doesn't mean it's "canon"
Are you talking about "a single example beyond him (met)"? MC got really big help from both ella (metal mostly) and syla (way better at memory/immaterial stuff) so I'd say it's fair to argue which "is better at/deveolping their powers" (in a vaccum) but again that's not me saying "met go brrr" it was me arguing that MC isn't the actual embodiment of perfection when it comes to his powers/evolution which is what the original message I quoted said.
I've not made a single comment on who would win in a 1v1 to death fight between MC and Met
MC isn't perfectly developing himself, but nobody actually does, so that's not a good thing to argue. The point is that MC and Met are practically equal development-wise, and they both have had the same amount of time to train themselves (other than combat skills for which Met was trained from childhood). The metal training had literally no major effect on MC's power stat development, it was at maximum like three or four points, like c'mon, and Syla's training is super recent, they have not fought since that.I'm specifically talking about him in middle school (parent teacher with syla). You could argue that the teacher just wants the best for all his students and even though MC is getting A's he could (somehow) be doing better.....but that same teacher is "blackamiled" by syla because she has big tits in a few seconds so I doubt their "merit" as a pure hearted teacher
Is there not any proof that Liz could have better grades than amber if she tried at all? That might be an assumption because (while they were still alive) amber had to put in tons of work to even be able to be around her in anything but maybe that's only physical stuff and academics is an exception to the usual amber/Liz dynamic
Unless I'm mistaken the poker is objectively "player choice" not in that you have to win a hand of poker as the player but that if you don't have enough training Stat you just don't beat alice at the party and she plays the game at the casino but the game continues on. Just because almost everyone knows to listen to the big tiddy goth gf and train as much the game let's you doesn't mean it's "canon"
Are you talking about "a single example beyond him (met)"? MC got really big help from both ella (metal mostly) and syla (way better at memory/immaterial stuff) so I'd say it's fair to argue which "is better at/deveolping their powers" (in a vaccum) but again that's not me saying "met go brrr" it was me arguing that MC isn't the actual embodiment of perfection when it comes to his powers/evolution which is what the original message I quoted said.
The simple fact is, that if MC was as vulnerable to lightning as any other superhuman was and didn't have a weakness to it, It would either be an extremely close fight, or MC would demolish due to being able to turn into electricity-insulating materials. None of MC's training with others has given him a boost so huge as to make a difference against Met. Not to mention WW said Met is not a normal superhuman due to the training he underwent, so he might have gotten training with others as well, which would have given him a far greater boost than what training with Ella gave MC.
- May 11, 2023
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We spread everywhere.
- Jun 26, 2019
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On my headcanon, almost pure playthrough I named him Warden. You know, he's supposed to be the shield that guards the realms of men protects regular people from monsters and all that. Kinda lame name, I guess. But my fantasy sucks and I couldn't come up with anything better
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In the end, this particular instance is a matter of perspective. In my experience, there are 3 types of people with average or less than average grades:I'm specifically talking about him in middle school (parent teacher with syla). You could argue that the teacher just wants the best for all his students and even though MC is getting A's he could (somehow) be doing better.....but that same teacher is "blackamiled" by syla because she has big tits in a few seconds so I doubt their "merit" as a pure hearted teacher
1. Kids on the the learning disability spectrum in a school that isn't equipped to handle them.
2. Students that are too good for the material and don't get stimulated enough.
3. Dumb kids.
Dumb kids don't have strokes of genius. They don't suddenly start realising how stuff works. They are the types that will put effort once, think that they did their part and fail anyway. Could they be helped? I can't tell. Those I knew about probably wouldn't and they can only learn things that they have some talent with, or through extreme repetition if forced. These kids are actually less common than people think.
Kids with learning disabilities can be quite intelligent and it will probably show at some point in the future, but they are also fairly easy to identify unless your are a dumb teacher. I mean if the kid can't spell a simple word correctly after 3 years in school, can't read fluently or have the will to learn but lack in focus, it's obvious what's going on.
The kids that don't get stimulated enough are usually the recipients of "He has potential, but ..". Let's face it, 90% of the curriculum is fairly simple, and the other 10% is super hard exercises designed to test how the well the kids can work inside the framework without really having any intuition about the concepts they are taught.
So with that perspective, when the teacher says "MC has potential but", the only thing I hear is "MC doesn't give a shit about my class and I'm angry about it" or "I just don't have any good feedback to give to the parent why the kid underperforms". If it wasn't that common an expression, I may had taken it at face value, but I think WW is trying to tell us something beyond the obvious here.
Sorry to answer a question with a question but, would you call Liz "smart" if no one ever mentioned her abilities? She acts like the dumbest bimbo in existence throughout the game. There's no doubt that Liz could excel in most things she put her mind to, but this isn't reflected in her behavior. MC has a lot of similarities. He acts dumb but when push comes to shove he finds a way, as for player input..
Look, I see what you are getting at, but I think this idea is a bit more nuanced than what you are presenting it to be. Let me explain:Unless I'm mistaken the poker is objectively "player choice" not in that you have to win a hand of poker as the player but that if you don't have enough training Stat you just don't beat alice at the party (or maybe after?) and she plays the game at the casino but the game continues on. WW even asked on stream a few weeks ago if he ended up putting it In the game or not. Just because almost everyone knows to listen to the big tiddy goth gf and train as much the game let's you doesn't mean it's "canon"
1. Fight against Klaus
MC has the option of going big, or staying small and agile. The player can pick whatever he wants, only one choice leads to victory.
The thing is, when the player picks "close quarters and agility", MC does something unprecedented. He cooks up a new form that the player has no information about at this point. Would you attribute this to MC's ability, or player choice?
2. MC during the debate with Elijah in college
If you choose to halfass it, MC will halfass it.
If you choose to destroy Elijah, MC makes him look dumb, despite knowing that most of what Elijah says is actually true.
Again, is this MC's ability, or player choice?
In the example we are talking about, there are different outcomes depending on if the player has prioritised training or not. However the player has no idea how MC will act based on these choices. The player doesn't control if MC will become good at poker or not. He only controls if by the time of the casino, MC will have unlocked the ability and have the tool to use in this particular situation.
There exists a time constraint here. If the player is slow with training, MC will lose the chance to apply his knowledge, but by the end of the first arc he still has the ability and he can still develop his method if some future situation calls for it.
This is the reason why I think that "player choice" is not a good general argument. There are very limited instances where MC fails on direct player input. Examples are when training his liquid form, or choosing if to cut below or above the collar. Would you say that examples like this speak to MC's intelligence, or they are more of a test for how much the player was paying attention? I tend to think the latter, even if I'm not 100% on it.
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- Feb 22, 2023
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Liberty because he uhh liberates the people from evil bastards like cole
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