And what do you think is the commonly used definition of honor? Personally, am under impression common definition of honor doesn't involve "murdering people who have absolutely no chance to stand up to you, while running with tail behind legs from people who are stronger than you", but perhaps am mistaken, so go ahead; elaborate.
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- Oct 13, 2021
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First of all, the way you formulate your question is fallacious, but that can be not on purpose so i'l just go over it.
The (not "my" like you said, but "the") common definition of honor is : high respect or great esteem toward something, that can be toward morale, but not necessarily, in this case for example, its toward duty.
2nd like i already said, he eat peoples, livings beings that not his kind, like those peoples do when they eat other livings beings that not their kind, this point is not about murder or balance of power, he just eat animals, if a cow was better to recover his power he would eat cows and not humans, so taking it in the honor thing is just hypocrite.
And finally since he isn't suicidal, he know those "stronger than him" who chased him would kill him on sight so he couldn't talk to them even if he wanted, therefore he couldn't known if they did it by duty or not (spoiler : no), plus the fact that until then he already have contact with other superhumans and none of them have been honourable.
But he speak with the MC and he acknowledge the MC is not fighting him by thirst of power or knowledge like the previous ones, but by duty toward the title that peoples give to him (hero) even if he didn't claim it himself, and its cause he showed respect toward that that he changed the place of the fight, allowing the remaining humans to live, giving respect to the MC duty by that, despite his own interest.
So at the beginning of the fight, only Valravn show honor, the MC show it only if he fight until the end without help, cause he asked for a one vs one that not involve humans in name of the duty of protecting those humans, in the line of choices when you win thanx Brianna you break your words, by involving those you were supposed to protect for win, making this win dishonourable.
After we can think honor is superfluous, not important, less important than win or whatever else, that up to each one and it another debate, but fact is : Valravn shown honor in this fight, and if we win thanx Brianna we didn't, we can also notice that in the dead event he still speak to the MC with respect cause in the dead event we didn't involve anyone, fighting with honor until the end.
The (not "my" like you said, but "the") common definition of honor is : high respect or great esteem toward something, that can be toward morale, but not necessarily, in this case for example, its toward duty.
2nd like i already said, he eat peoples, livings beings that not his kind, like those peoples do when they eat other livings beings that not their kind, this point is not about murder or balance of power, he just eat animals, if a cow was better to recover his power he would eat cows and not humans, so taking it in the honor thing is just hypocrite.
And finally since he isn't suicidal, he know those "stronger than him" who chased him would kill him on sight so he couldn't talk to them even if he wanted, therefore he couldn't known if they did it by duty or not (spoiler : no), plus the fact that until then he already have contact with other superhumans and none of them have been honourable.
But he speak with the MC and he acknowledge the MC is not fighting him by thirst of power or knowledge like the previous ones, but by duty toward the title that peoples give to him (hero) even if he didn't claim it himself, and its cause he showed respect toward that that he changed the place of the fight, allowing the remaining humans to live, giving respect to the MC duty by that, despite his own interest.
So at the beginning of the fight, only Valravn show honor, the MC show it only if he fight until the end without help, cause he asked for a one vs one that not involve humans in name of the duty of protecting those humans, in the line of choices when you win thanx Brianna you break your words, by involving those you were supposed to protect for win, making this win dishonourable.
After we can think honor is superfluous, not important, less important than win or whatever else, that up to each one and it another debate, but fact is : Valravn shown honor in this fight, and if we win thanx Brianna we didn't, we can also notice that in the dead event he still speak to the MC with respect cause in the dead event we didn't involve anyone, fighting with honor until the end.
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- Jan 13, 2019
- 650
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Dont let this debate about whatever distract you from the fact that mental battle with jake on prison is still the best fight scene in the game
I've said what "you" think is "the" common definition (because you're not an universal arbiter on the matter, and so you can only offer your personal take on it) but that's beside the point. What about the equally common definition of honor which is "the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right", why would you entirely disregard this one?
No, the hypocrisy is claiming to have higher standards than it's actually the case. People don't eat creatures they recognize cognitive enough to grasp highly abstract intellectual concepts. Val doesn't "just eat animals", he possesses enough intelligence to recognize these "animals" as someone he can have intellectual discourse with, beings which can understand and observe the concept of honor. It's disingenuous at best to present his behavior as no different from what humans do.
He doesn't know it, because such thing evidently never actually happened to him (if it did then he would be dead) He merely presumes and acts like a coward on this presumption. Which is fine but acting like a coward generally doesn't fit "the common definition of honor".
That's what he claims. In practice he complains like a little bitch that the MC is getting a minor assistance which wasn't even hurting him, then he forcefully moves the fight to another place where the distraction can't reach. He isn't doing this "despite his own interest", doing it is in his own interest.
Effectively, he expects an opponent weaker than him to provide him with a fight in which he holds clear power advantage. While, like mentioned earlier he isn't willing to risk doing the same when the shoe is on the other foot and when it's his opponent who is more powerful. That's the extent of his "honor".
- Oct 13, 2021
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I'm in a pinch here, i clearly see that you don't do it on purpose and don't have bad intents but your argumentation is so full of fallacious and cheap rhetoric that its actually really hard to discuss, guess that due to the habit that peoples nowadays have to tend to not debate but to trying persuade others they are right, plus the fact that its not oral and asynchronous.
But i think i've understood your overall point of view, thanx for your time and if you didn't, i encourage you to read carefully what the characters are saying and doing several routes for seeing the variations of the scenes, somes provides differents informations and points of view.
But i think i've understood your overall point of view, thanx for your time and if you didn't, i encourage you to read carefully what the characters are saying and doing several routes for seeing the variations of the scenes, somes provides differents informations and points of view.
I'm fine with "agree to disagree", although it could do without that display of condescending attitude; because, if i had to be honest, i have similar opinion on your take on this subject. Our interpretations clearly differ, let's leave it at that.
- Oct 13, 2021
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With the hopes its as i think, and not just a bad faith leaving door.
For my improvement, if you could explain to me with arguments and corrects terms, wich way i was fallacious that would help me to not doing it again, i'm pretty well informed on the subject so you can go technical for this one.
Also with the same spirit, which terms did you find condescending ? maybe my lacks in english made me use words that are insults or attacks without realizing it, the subject is pretty hard to explain even in my native language so i'm would not be surprised to had used harsh terms or misspelled somes.
(pm is fine my goal is not display)
Love and Happiness on you (and on those who read cause its free).
For my improvement, if you could explain to me with arguments and corrects terms, wich way i was fallacious that would help me to not doing it again, i'm pretty well informed on the subject so you can go technical for this one.
Also with the same spirit, which terms did you find condescending ? maybe my lacks in english made me use words that are insults or attacks without realizing it, the subject is pretty hard to explain even in my native language so i'm would not be surprised to had used harsh terms or misspelled somes.
(pm is fine my goal is not display)
Love and Happiness on you (and on those who read cause its free).
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
Boo! Are you all ready for New Years? Got some fun little questions for anyone interested:
Who do you think out of everyone we've met so far; will be the toughest fight in the future?
And my 2nd Question follows similarly; who are you guys looking forward to fighting the most, difficult or otherwise and why? This can even apply to already dead characters at their peak or matched at a higher or lower level, etc. (i.e Lvl 5 Jake vs Lvl 5 MC, Lvl3 Laurie vs Lvl 3 MC, you get the gist).
For my personal picks I obviously am all for Lvl 4 or 5 fights as long as they are equalized. My choices would be MC vs Michael at Lvl 3 (depending on his power, I just love his fighting mannerisms and determination). Lvl 5 Ella vs Lvl 5 MC (an unstoppable force vs an immovable object lol). And as a sidenote I'd love to see Deus take on a few elite H.E.R.O members just to prove me wrong on being "weak" compared to them, foresight is a fun power to watch in combat
Who do you think out of everyone we've met so far; will be the toughest fight in the future?
And my 2nd Question follows similarly; who are you guys looking forward to fighting the most, difficult or otherwise and why? This can even apply to already dead characters at their peak or matched at a higher or lower level, etc. (i.e Lvl 5 Jake vs Lvl 5 MC, Lvl3 Laurie vs Lvl 3 MC, you get the gist).
For my personal picks I obviously am all for Lvl 4 or 5 fights as long as they are equalized. My choices would be MC vs Michael at Lvl 3 (depending on his power, I just love his fighting mannerisms and determination). Lvl 5 Ella vs Lvl 5 MC (an unstoppable force vs an immovable object lol). And as a sidenote I'd love to see Deus take on a few elite H.E.R.O members just to prove me wrong on being "weak" compared to them, foresight is a fun power to watch in combat
- Oct 13, 2021
- 46
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Considering how the update end i think the next big combat booked is MC and his team vs Cole.
I'm also hyped to discover the power of Michael, i imagine either a simple and total brutality power or in a contrary one that so subbtle and non-combat oriented that even after finding it out he gonna struggle to find application though his current way of fighting (that will be so hilarious), but i'm pretty sure his power is gonna be eitheir way nearly cheat in the end, considering who he had it from.
I often see peoples talk about Jake but i don't think he is gonna become that much powerful, after all, in a direct fight while his powers give him unconditional win against weaker opponents, he exhaust himself quick against similars opponents and is useless/dangerous for himself against stronger ones, although its indeed one of the most powerful power, its not a direct combat type one.
Idon't think MC lvl 4 gonna be for this next update, maybe lvl 3 but it would be an to high increase of the rythm if we hit lvl 4 in the same update, that will feel like a rush toward the end.
I don't think the MC is gonna stay that long with H.E.R.O, after all there not that virtuous and there importants things they still hide (If superhumans are the next stage of humanity, why Xanthe, the best scientist in the world and the best expert on the subject, stay human ?) there is definitely a thing that is at best suspicious about them and this thing probably gonna be a reason for the MC to leave.
In fact while i've appreciated the fights so far, its not what's hype me the more, i like to see how peoples finds unexpected applications of their power, in fight or not.
I'm also hyped to discover the power of Michael, i imagine either a simple and total brutality power or in a contrary one that so subbtle and non-combat oriented that even after finding it out he gonna struggle to find application though his current way of fighting (that will be so hilarious), but i'm pretty sure his power is gonna be eitheir way nearly cheat in the end, considering who he had it from.
I often see peoples talk about Jake but i don't think he is gonna become that much powerful, after all, in a direct fight while his powers give him unconditional win against weaker opponents, he exhaust himself quick against similars opponents and is useless/dangerous for himself against stronger ones, although its indeed one of the most powerful power, its not a direct combat type one.
Idon't think MC lvl 4 gonna be for this next update, maybe lvl 3 but it would be an to high increase of the rythm if we hit lvl 4 in the same update, that will feel like a rush toward the end.
I don't think the MC is gonna stay that long with H.E.R.O, after all there not that virtuous and there importants things they still hide (If superhumans are the next stage of humanity, why Xanthe, the best scientist in the world and the best expert on the subject, stay human ?) there is definitely a thing that is at best suspicious about them and this thing probably gonna be a reason for the MC to leave.
In fact while i've appreciated the fights so far, its not what's hype me the more, i like to see how peoples finds unexpected applications of their power, in fight or not.
- Aug 21, 2018
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Ella fight gonna be hard eldritch vs eldritch, the most primal battle evolving, adapting as the battle goes on ,the risk of their minds becoming one. the two captains the wind and fire ones strong yes but if the mc can evolve the needed traits they can suck it. Alice, fuck that power is a danger at lvl 1 at lvl 5 most likely she can rip the fabric of space at her will. fuck nico alice can get the whole space power combo.Boo! Are you all ready for New Years? Got some fun little questions for anyone interested:
Who do you think out of everyone we've met so far; will be the toughest fight in the future?
And my 2nd Question follows similarly; who are you guys looking forward to fighting the most, difficult or otherwise and why? This can even apply to already dead characters at their peak or matched at a higher or lower level, etc. (i.e Lvl 5 Jake vs Lvl 5 MC, Lvl3 Laurie vs Lvl 3 MC, you get the gist).
For my personal picks I obviously am all for Lvl 4 or 5 fights as long as they are equalized. My choices would be MC vs Michael at Lvl 3 (depending on his power, I just love his fighting mannerisms and determination). Lvl 5 Ella vs Lvl 5 MC (an unstoppable force vs an immovable object lol). And as a sidenote I'd love to see Deus take on a few elite H.E.R.O members just to prove me wrong on being "weak" compared to them, foresight is a fun power to watch in combat
- May 7, 2022
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I'm looking forward to the next Michael fight the most. I also wanna see how the MC will deal with Cole, as Ella said a Lvl 2 beating a Lvl 3 is something that happens very rarely. It'd be also nice to see Alice fight somebody stronger than her, maybe even a Lvl 2, considering that she's nearly at her peak Lvl 1.Boo! Are you all ready for New Years? Got some fun little questions for anyone interested:
Who do you think out of everyone we've met so far; will be the toughest fight in the future?
And my 2nd Question follows similarly; who are you guys looking forward to fighting the most, difficult or otherwise and why? This can even apply to already dead characters at their peak or matched at a higher or lower level, etc. (i.e Lvl 5 Jake vs Lvl 5 MC, Lvl3 Laurie vs Lvl 3 MC, you get the gist).
For my personal picks I obviously am all for Lvl 4 or 5 fights as long as they are equalized. My choices would be MC vs Michael at Lvl 3 (depending on his power, I just love his fighting mannerisms and determination). Lvl 5 Ella vs Lvl 5 MC (an unstoppable force vs an immovable object lol). And as a sidenote I'd love to see Deus take on a few elite H.E.R.O members just to prove me wrong on being "weak" compared to them, foresight is a fun power to watch in combat
My guess for Brianna is that she's maybe going to be the "official" girlfriend of the mc's hero persona. The media has that mc appears just in time to save her, has her defending him to the press after the fight, has them have the interview together and he will most likely defend her in the Cole fight.
So might be that the media will spin this in a "She's his girlfriend" way and they will both have to deal with that.
- Jun 18, 2022
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Valravn in RPG terms is definitely more of a thief/rogue than a knight/warrior who specializes in the kind of straight-up, one-on-one, rules-based fighting that is traditionally regarded as honorable combat in human society. One of his basic attacks is a sneaky backstab, he views retreat as a perfectly valid strategy, and he's hard to track down because he's so good at hiding in the shadows. As you mentioned, he seems completely comfortable regarding humans as disposable meat despite their sentience, and he has a special taste for children who are the most vulnerable and least able to resist him. He also seems to feel it is honorable to use any manner of underhanded tactics in a fight while absolutely condemning the acceptance of outside help.
At best, you can say Valravn respects strength alone, but his sense of honor still seems rather self-serving to me. He justifies sneaky attacks and hiding because he has those skills and uses them well. He condemns outside help because he likely doesn't have any friends who'd help him in a fight. I actually prefer the MC's "dishonorable" win because it shows him achieving victory on his own terms and by using human rather than just monster skills (plus, I also really like Brianna -- she was so brave to do what she did and to me she's more of a badass than Valravn could ever hope to be). The MC's social connections end up functioning like a kind of superpower in that one fight. Valravn is hopelessly outmatched by the MC when it comes to social skills.
Fairly historically accurate for most professional warriors throughout history.
- Jun 18, 2022
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Agreed 100%.
I think it's testament to WeirdWorld's writing ability that he has such a knack for creating morally complex characters like Danica, Ella, and Valravn whose motives we love to ponder and some of us might even find ourselves sympathizing with. They might be dismissed as just villains/obstacles in other VNs, but not here.
By the way, the way you quoted my post has inspired me to start signing my posts in a brand new way!
skills.
- Apr 23, 2019
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- Nov 6, 2018
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Damn didn't know retreating to reassess the situation was cowardly let's just go balls to the wall against the enemy we know nothing about
- Jun 18, 2022
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I think it depends on the context. If you're fighting a war, a strategic retreat at the right moment can save a lot of lives/resources and put your forces in position to win later. On the other hand, if you're a gunslinger in the Old West and back out of a gunfight, you'd likely be considered a coward even if you knew you couldn't win. Or imagine being a samurai who has only trained to fight people who wield one sword. If you turn tail and run as soon you see that you are facing a dual wielding Miyamoto Musashi, that would be perfectly sensible given that you're not adequately prepared for the fight...but it also would be perceived as cowardly and dishonorable in that social context.
The MC often stops to reassess the situation in the fights he's in (even if he has to hide or temporarily retreat to do it), and I wouldn't call that cowardly. However, he also doesn't go around talking about honor all the time and isn't obsessed with trying to prove he's the strongest guy around who would be victorious in any "fair fight"...he mostly just wants to win one way or another.
Valravn has created his own code of honor. By his standards everything he does is honorable and anything his opponent does that he doesn't like is dishonorable. If he had kids, I'm pretty sure they'd be regular posters on /r/raisedbynarcissists.
- Nov 6, 2018
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I mean Brianna did kinda jump in to beat him after he was already tired we can all say that was dishonorable but valran learned from us anyway since he was a simple bird to begin with so he didn't really create his own code more of he adapted to whatever society code of honor was at the time