- Sep 27, 2021
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- Thread starter WeirdWorld
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any hypothesis's on what MC's memory powers will be like for combat? will he be able to use the other powers because he has their memories?
It seems like they're (the third and the fourth) not happy with Syla because she "took in some bad stuff" this will probably be cleared up in the next update however 3&4 also couldve been upset with MC being born
- Jun 18, 2022
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Okay so which path is the optimal choice here? Investigating with Rina or Joining the Tournament with Met?
As far as the walkthrough dictates, the former grants you +1 with Rina and some money while the latter gives you +1 with Met and +3 to both Skill and Power. Stat wise, going with Met will grant you a boost to your stats which is always a good thing considering that there are a lot of stat checks, usually from either the skill or power stat. However, going with Rina might potentially unlock lewd scenes with her in the future (Also, does picking this route have any scenes with her in this current build?) and more information/lore regarding S.I.N. Besides that, I already took Tiffany's offer earlier in the game aka her giving me a fuck ton of money so I'm pretty much loaded with cash already defeating the purpose of choosing Rina except for the +1. Plus, given the shit ton of money I have, I can just buy the monster parts from the shop either way.
So... these are the options I've weight out. That said' which is the better path here? Also, among the two paths, which has a more interesting or better story between them?
- Jul 13, 2021
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From a content perspective, I find the Tournament the best. I like the type of information we get and the scenes a lot more than the other route.
The optimal path is the tournament because it gives you stats and enough money for the shopkeep. Unless an update drops where some variable from the "Drop out" route becomes important, there is nothing there. Traditionally, the relationship checks aren't that tight, I doubt that this +1 with Rina will be that important.
You can always do the tournament, reset at Jared and do the "Drop out" route, but personally I'd rather do the tournament twice for +6 Skill.
Hey guys. I was trying to do all dead ends. Some are missing (ie. 26-30) from the walkthrough. Does anybody knows if those are actually not in the game? If they exists... does anyone know how to do it?
Thanks all.
Thanks all.
- Jul 5, 2022
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Is the Jared reset method of getting some more stats cannon or is it just a bug that shouldn't work. Are we supposed to be able to do that?
- Jul 13, 2021
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It's a bug/exploit. Used to be an infinite loop. WW "fixed it" but not correctly, so now you can use it to gain double stats from the tournament.
Yes, the names of the deadends are not in the correct order. If you can't find them in the walkthrough it means that they don't exist.
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I read the last few posts and have a couple of doubts.
1) I had assumed that Authority, Power, Memory etc were not the names of the specific apostles, but more their powers\domains, and that there were two apostles per power, one each in the two pairs 1-6 (aligned with the moon), 7-12 (aligned with the sea), with obviously different derivations, or rather interpretations, of those powers. So the second set of apostles has powers related to completely different aspects? It might make sense since there are already the concepts of order, evolution and infinity (plus probably three more for the other six) to bind the apostles into pairs and link them with the 6 arbiters.
2) I did not understand whether Ella is the chosen of the third apostle or not. The doubt I have is that she is neither pure nor 50/50, being much more body than memory, but at the same time she seems pretty cosy with the third and fourth.
3) I read a few posts ago that Tanos is the son of a chosen. Where did this information come from? Because I have not encountered it anywhere that I can remember. The only thing that seems significant to me about him, besides his father and how much of a piece of crap he is, is that he is probably behind Ella as a superhuman. Kinda sad the MC didn't recognize him in the picture Ella had of him.
Btw: this game is sick. When I downloaded 1 GB of files, I didn't expect THIS much content and surely not something so deep lore and character-wise.
1) I had assumed that Authority, Power, Memory etc were not the names of the specific apostles, but more their powers\domains, and that there were two apostles per power, one each in the two pairs 1-6 (aligned with the moon), 7-12 (aligned with the sea), with obviously different derivations, or rather interpretations, of those powers. So the second set of apostles has powers related to completely different aspects? It might make sense since there are already the concepts of order, evolution and infinity (plus probably three more for the other six) to bind the apostles into pairs and link them with the 6 arbiters.
2) I did not understand whether Ella is the chosen of the third apostle or not. The doubt I have is that she is neither pure nor 50/50, being much more body than memory, but at the same time she seems pretty cosy with the third and fourth.
3) I read a few posts ago that Tanos is the son of a chosen. Where did this information come from? Because I have not encountered it anywhere that I can remember. The only thing that seems significant to me about him, besides his father and how much of a piece of crap he is, is that he is probably behind Ella as a superhuman. Kinda sad the MC didn't recognize him in the picture Ella had of him.
Btw: this game is sick. When I downloaded 1 GB of files, I didn't expect THIS much content and surely not something so deep lore and character-wise.
- Jul 13, 2018
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1) The 12 Apostles are all siblings. They're 6 sets of twins. Each twin is closely linked to each other and have half of an original trait, that belongs to an Arbiter/Origin. There's 6 Arbiters.
1st (Authority) + 2nd (Power) = Order
3rd (Body) + 4th (Memory) = Evolution
5th (Time) + 6th (Ether) = Infinity
7th (Dark) + 8th (Light) = Unknown
9th (Truth/Reality) + 10th (Dream/Illusion) = Unknown
11th (Destruction) + 12th (Creation) = Unknown.
Beyond that we don't know but the new assumption is the 6 Arbiters are two sets of triplets who's three Original traits come from one of the Outer Twin each. This is speculation though so you don't have to worry about this bit.
Just so you know. The implied position is:
0. God ???
1. Outer Twins (2)
2. 6 Arbiters
3. 12 Apostles
4. The Chosen
2) Ella was turned by, and is the chosen of the 3rd but presumably had enough compatibility with the 4th. She's like MC, but worse I suppose. I still think if she just killed Christie like she supposed to do, she would've unlocked the Memory trait. That's my own belief though so you don't really have to keep it in mind.
3) Tanos is the "son" of the Rebis, who's a chosen of the 12th Apostle. As in, that's his monster parent. We learn this from Devana and Shen among others. Tanos also called Deryl "brother" indicating that he was also turned by it. His human dad is Xanthe.
I got the genesis of the apostles right, yay xD Even if for now is only an assumption. The only additional passage in my theory is that god = origin.
I suppose the other 6 apostles' powers are assumptions, but they make absolute sense. We know Eishtet is the daughter of the ninth and her power is all about reality. We also know that Tiffany is the fake spawn of the eight (being the other with the sixth that can travel the cosmos in an instant) and well, that's a clear connection. And we know what powers are those of the Moon twins. And that the descendants of the seventh follow the dark god.
My original assumption was based on the fact that light = power because light is a type of radiation, similar to the power of Michael in a sense, just another interpretation of it; time can equal destruction and ether (space) could bring to life or transfer things around the cosmos. Still, your theory is more grounded because it takes account of Eishtet and Evana said she creates things when talking about her monsters, so it didn't make perfect sense with the Ether and was the weak point of my theory.
That Tanos was created by Rebis itself we know from the man himself I believe, but I had another interpretation of chosen, that's why I was confused about the term.
Thanks for the answer
- Jul 13, 2021
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1.
- Those names are in fact the names of the Apostles.
- Arbiters don't have names according to the Eye. Only their power has name.
- The Apostles are Arbiters' children, each Arbiter has two children which are twins.
- The "God's X" phrase is the name of the Apostle's power.
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| Arbiter's (Origin) Power | Apostle Name (First Child) | First Child's Power | Apostle Name (Second Child) | Second Child's Power |
| Order | Authority - The 1st | Will | Power - The 2nd | Might |
| Evolution | Body - The 3rd | Form | Memory - The 4th | Insight |
| Infinity | Time - The 5th | Age | Ether - The 6th | Space |
At the moment we also have some information associated with the other Apostles.
The 7th:
We know he is associated with the Dark. I don't think it's the Apostle's name, probably the name of the power.
The 8th:
We tend to call this apostle Light, but it's not confirmed. It's a fairly safe assumption though. I bet Light is the name of the power.
The 9th:
We have a name for him, Truth, because we know that Eisheth gets her powers from him, and she calls herself the "Chosen of Truth".
The 10th:
We assume he is related to Illusions, Dreams, Fantasies, some form of altered perception. We don't have a name for him or his power.
The 11th:
We don't have a name, but we assume it's related to either Destruction or Annihilation. Basically the opposite of the 12th, as we know more about him.
The 12th:
I think WW kind of slipped up and gave us the name for this one as MC shouldn't have the knowledge. MC wonders about Devana "what the hell are her powers? Creation? like Deryl?" Since Devana is a confirmed spawn of the 12th, we can safely assume that "Creation" is either the Apostle name or the power name. It's not exactly confirmed, but a safe assumption.
We also have reason to assume that there exists a God, and that the Outer Twins are probably one step above the Arbiters. Perhaps it's the Outer Twins associated with Moon and Sea somehow, although probably not directly.
For the Moon and Sea in particular, we can also assume that they are completely unrelated to either Apostles, Arbiters or Outer Twins.
It's possible that they are the domains of other God-like beings, like the Great Ocean. There is an ongoing debate on the nature of the Lord of Dark, but if he turns out to be a distinct entity and not the 7th, he may be related to the Moon, while the Great Ocean to the Sea.
2.
Ella seems to be chosen by Memory but she was infected by Body. Both have active communication with her, but with the latest knowledge we got from the update, we don't exactly have a role for Body to fill. During deadend3, Ella calls Memory. The 50-50 hybrids seem to be Memory's project with Body being along for the ride.
If Syla is generally correct about Apostles, Ella is probably close to 50-50. She just failed to manifest Memory powers for whatever reasons. I have a theory in the offtopic, but I can't tell you anything for sure.
3.
Tanos tells Deryl that he also got his powers from the Rebis.
We know that Rebis is one of the Chosen who lead monsterkind thanks to the Memory Hound's vision during SIN Tournament.
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- Jun 18, 2022
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How exactly do you trigger this exploit? and is it possible to experience both paths using this exploit?
Do you have a link for that theory? Cause I'm not sure if I agree with that idea. Even at the beginning, MC was displaying the Memory trait when he was copying people and animals just by touching them. We know that Ella had to manually learn and adapt her body to achieve similar feats, and though she had total control of her body, she still lacked the knowledge of how to make structures with it without learning it the hard way. In fact I seem to recall either you or someone else mentioning that we still don't have any real examples of Ella displaying the Memory trait. So I struggle to think she's 50/50. Seems pretty clear to me that she's all in on Body.
- Jul 13, 2021
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You trigger it by attempting to kill Jared after the Tournament is over. Charlie will stop you and Zack will reset the timeline so you have to do it all over again. The exploit is that why every variable associated with the infiltration resets to default, Power and Skill do not.
From MC's point of view, he only goes through the infiltration once no matter what.
There is no single post that proposes this theory. It's still under discussion all over the place, however there are many indications that this is the case.
1. Ella during the "Explore my Body" segment, says that she isn't that good with Memory. Why would she be any good if she wasn't supposed to have that power? The way she says that doesn't make much sense for a pure Bodyspawn.
2. Syla says that Memory and Body (mostly Memory) want a 50-50 spawn.
3. We have good reason to suspect that the liquid Ella drinks during the St Arturius massacre is Memory's monster material. Why would she want to drink that if not to activate the memory powers? There is no precedent that a Superhuman can somehow gain a secondary trait.
4. During the same event, when MC gets infected by the pink liquid, he sees Memory calling Ella a failure. Why would Memory bother with Ella if she didn't have the potential in the first place?
5. During Deadend3, Ella learns that MC possesses the correct traits and instead of calling Body, she calls Memory. Why? We always assumed that Ella is the spawn of Body, but she doesn't have to be. The result would be the same if she was infected by Memory according to MC's progression.
6. We can catch Ella saying that MC and her are the same. Back then we couldn't understand why as Ella looked like Body only. Now we have information that aligns with that sentiment.
Basically the indications that Ella is supposed to be 50-50 or at least something of the sort, are overwhelming if you ask me.
I think people have the wrong idea about Ella, that she is somehow that amazing pure Bodyspawn. I've always disagreed with that, I think the flashbacks in her life align with my thoughts and this theory of 50-50 makes a lot of sense to me.
I feel like a lot of these are "we aren't sure why, but saying she has Memory in her helps to explain X, Y, Z." It doesn't really address the ultimate issue of how we've never seen her actually express the memory trait, despite being 50/50 according to this, and in fact we've seen examples of how she apparently does NOT have the Memory trait, which we learned from her school.
We've seen her use Body and nothing else. Perhaps Ella was an experiment of Memory, where they tried to take a purespawn of Body and get her acclimated towards a 50/50 split, which is why she consumes Memory material and is ultimately deemed a failure. Whether she was a failure because she didn't develop the Memory trait or because she failed to kill Christie, we can't be certain of atm.
We also still don't entirely understand why she has such a good connection to Memory and Body, considering the fact that even though we are a near perfect 50/50 spawn, we don't have the pleasure of regular get togethers or even a phone call from Memory and Body every now and again. So any arguments that begin with "she's in contact with Memory" run into assumption issues.
Dude, you're kinda wrong.
1. Despite having 100% pure lineage MC has both traits no matter what, both Apostles display traits of their sibling during his infection.
2. Absolutely correct.
3. School massacre was intended to complete Ella's memory trait by eating a bunch of people who share memories with her under the influence of material from 4th. Likely it was late adoption initiated by Memory with blessing from Body.
4. Ella said that she can understand the function of anything she looks at. Her tinkering with eyes likely referrers to her ability to measure and exert energy in visual range without physical contact.
5. Because 50:50 split is Memory's initiative.
6. Ella and MC are the same because Ella possessed the potential to become what MC currently is.
- Mar 17, 2019
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Ella could have a 50-50 compatibility but failed to awaken memory trait (or only partialy), and once Ella was judged as a failure (after she failed to kill Christie), the 4th still used Ella to find another suited candidate for her experiment.
It would also made sens with what Sylla said about her being used for something else by the 4th. and also the signification behind "suitable to birth", Since Ella found mc and does everything in her power to ensure his growth, and also tried to create other like Jake or Michael.
But Ella is both 3rd and 4th chosen , during dead end 37 mc in is arbiter form refer to her as "their chosen" , and we see just after that he talk about Ella
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no mater what, Aglaecwiff will conceive a child, either with Deryl or Mc and from what we know of the creature she inspired with, he will be an ennemy, even Valravn warned us, Also Aglaecwiff want a child "strong and powerfull.One so great he could challenge the gods themselves.."
Valravn also talked to mc about a futur fight between the two of them, and his heart was convoited by Ella, but was given back to him by deus (likely to ensure mc growth so that he's ready for later, and he also the one killing mc if he fail during dead end 37)
That chosen with red Lightning and a sword have great chance to be an ennemy since his connection with mc and him be locked by Sylla in mc memory.
The fairy isnt an ennemy per see, but the 6th wanted Alice to devour him, and with him be shown as indecisive, he could let alice devour him and his heart. Alice is a determined and strong willed women who could do what he couldnt, oppose to monster kind way.
Rebis guide Tanos through is research with twins so he could offer them his heart when they will be ready of he could become hostile and be killed by them .
Eiseth is captive for now but definitely a threat and during her fight she can have some control over reality despite beeing a chosent of truth, it lead me to think that Reality could be the 4th arbiter like Order,Evolution and Infinity.
A possible futur war between them could happen since Valravn refere the 2nd as ennemies and Valravn also attack mc if he think that we'r allies with the Fairy , also, later in his cellule when he know about mc lineage and talk with him, seem convinced that the two of them will fight.
We could have a conflict between two side with 3 Arbiters chosen, and with that we could maybe made a link with the Outher twin, two combination of 3 arbiter power Order Evolution and infinity against the 3 others. ( but of course it's purely a theory for this last part ^^)
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- Jul 13, 2018
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I feel like this whole, "Ella is a spawn of the Memory" falls apart when you remember that Valravn directly confirms that Ella is the spawn of the Body, not Memory. Aglaecwif points it out as well and there's the fact that the memories in the 3rd's vial calls her heir. Not sure why that last one gets overlooked so much whenever talking about the 4th's vial. There's also this very update itself which had Ella in the 3rd's spot, not the 4th's. It legit don't get no clearer than that.
Just because the 4th wants a half and half doesn't mean she infects them all herself. In fact, the 4th has no confirmed spawns or chosen at this moment because of the retcon to Aglaecwif. If you don't choose the 4th and reach the Syla dialogue, it literally doesn't change anything. Indicating that the 4th wanting 50/50 doesn't automatically mean she's their parent. All that means is there's a chance they can unlock the both traits if turned by her or the 3rd and she wants it to succeed.
If MC can get infected by the 3rd and still arrive to the same scenario then why are we wasting time speculating on something that doesn't need speculation? If it changes absolutely nothing with the MC, why get stuck on the idea that the 4th had to have turned Ella now? The 4th showing up for Ella doesn't actually prove anything because she took a pill that summons them. The 4th simply answered the call as that whole project is headed by her and she needs to fact check it.
Sure, Ella's not a "pure" 3rd Spawn and got some of the 4th in her. That doesn't change that she's only capable of fully using the 3rd's trait and not the 4th, hence the failure comment. In fact, this info actually changes nothing. We've always known and said Ella was a failure for not unlocking the memory trait. Her being a halfie just adds more context to that thought. It still doesn't matter though, as she still doesn't have the memory trait and until she actually shows any memory powers, it's pointless to keep bringing it up like she'll ever develop some. Like she said on her 5th Evolution, she's "not the one" and since she didn't unlock it there, she realistically never will.
It's fine to speculate but some of you are getting lose in it and creating these grand connections for otherwise straightforward info. You're only creating needless confusion. Not to mention, if MC can nearly evolve out of the memory trait, according to Syla, what makes anyone think Ella didn't fuck up even harder and evolved completely into the Body to the point that the memory trait couldn't develop and vanished? If it can nearly happen to MC and actually happened to Jake, then there's no reason to assume Ella is the exception.
Just because the 4th wants a half and half doesn't mean she infects them all herself. In fact, the 4th has no confirmed spawns or chosen at this moment because of the retcon to Aglaecwif. If you don't choose the 4th and reach the Syla dialogue, it literally doesn't change anything. Indicating that the 4th wanting 50/50 doesn't automatically mean she's their parent. All that means is there's a chance they can unlock the both traits if turned by her or the 3rd and she wants it to succeed.
If MC can get infected by the 3rd and still arrive to the same scenario then why are we wasting time speculating on something that doesn't need speculation? If it changes absolutely nothing with the MC, why get stuck on the idea that the 4th had to have turned Ella now? The 4th showing up for Ella doesn't actually prove anything because she took a pill that summons them. The 4th simply answered the call as that whole project is headed by her and she needs to fact check it.
Sure, Ella's not a "pure" 3rd Spawn and got some of the 4th in her. That doesn't change that she's only capable of fully using the 3rd's trait and not the 4th, hence the failure comment. In fact, this info actually changes nothing. We've always known and said Ella was a failure for not unlocking the memory trait. Her being a halfie just adds more context to that thought. It still doesn't matter though, as she still doesn't have the memory trait and until she actually shows any memory powers, it's pointless to keep bringing it up like she'll ever develop some. Like she said on her 5th Evolution, she's "not the one" and since she didn't unlock it there, she realistically never will.
It's fine to speculate but some of you are getting lose in it and creating these grand connections for otherwise straightforward info. You're only creating needless confusion. Not to mention, if MC can nearly evolve out of the memory trait, according to Syla, what makes anyone think Ella didn't fuck up even harder and evolved completely into the Body to the point that the memory trait couldn't develop and vanished? If it can nearly happen to MC and actually happened to Jake, then there's no reason to assume Ella is the exception.