VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.996 Public] [WeirdWorld]

[Gtdead]

I read the last few posts and have a couple of doubts.

1) I had assumed that Authority, Power, Memory etc were not the names of the specific apostles, but more their powers\domains, and that there were two apostles per power, one each in the two pairs 1-6 (aligned with the moon), 7-12 (aligned with the sea), with obviously different derivations, or rather interpretations, of those powers. So the second set of apostles has powers related to completely different aspects? It might make sense since there are already the concepts of order, evolution and infinity (plus probably three more for the other six) to bind the apostles into pairs and link them with the 6 arbiters.

2) I did not understand whether Ella is the chosen of the third apostle or not. The doubt I have is that she is neither pure nor 50/50, being much more body than memory, but at the same time she seems pretty cosy with the third and fourth.

3) I read a few posts ago that Tanos is the son of a chosen. Where did this information come from? Because I have not encountered it anywhere that I can remember. The only thing that seems significant to me about him, besides his father and how much of a piece of crap he is, is that he is probably behind Ella as a superhuman. Kinda sad the MC didn't recognize him in the picture Ella had of him.

Btw: this game is sick. When I downloaded 1 GB of files, I didn't expect THIS much content and surely not something so deep lore and character-wise.

1.
- Those names are in fact the names of the Apostles.
- Arbiters don't have names according to the Eye. Only their power has name.
- The Apostles are Arbiters' children, each Arbiter has two children which are twins.
- The "God's X" phrase is the name of the Apostle's power.

Spoiler: Why X is the name of the power?

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Arbiter's (Origin) Power	Apostle Name (First Child)	First Child's Power	Apostle Name (Second Child)	Second Child's Power
Order	Authority - The 1st	Will	Power - The 2nd	Might
Evolution	Body - The 3rd	Form	Memory - The 4th	Insight
Infinity	Time - The 5th	Age	Ether - The 6th	Space

At the moment we also have some information associated with the other Apostles.

The 7th:
We know he is associated with the Dark. I don't think it's the Apostle's name, probably the name of the power.

The 8th:
We tend to call this apostle Light, but it's not confirmed. It's a fairly safe assumption though. I bet Light is the name of the power.

The 9th:
We have a name for him, Truth, because we know that Eisheth gets her powers from him, and she calls herself the "Chosen of Truth".

The 10th:
We assume he is related to Illusions, Dreams, Fantasies, some form of altered perception. We don't have a name for him or his power.

The 11th:
We don't have a name, but we assume it's related to either Destruction or Annihilation. Basically the opposite of the 12th, as we know more about him.

The 12th:
I think WW kind of slipped up and gave us the name for this one as MC shouldn't have the knowledge. MC wonders about Devana "what the hell are her powers? Creation? like Deryl?" Since Devana is a confirmed spawn of the 12th, we can safely assume that "Creation" is either the Apostle name or the power name. It's not exactly confirmed, but a safe assumption.

We also have reason to assume that there exists a God, and that the Outer Twins are probably one step above the Arbiters. Perhaps it's the Outer Twins associated with Moon and Sea somehow, although probably not directly.

For the Moon and Sea in particular, we can also assume that they are completely unrelated to either Apostles, Arbiters or Outer Twins.
It's possible that they are the domains of other God-like beings, like the Great Ocean. There is an ongoing debate on the nature of the Lord of Dark, but if he turns out to be a distinct entity and not the 7th, he may be related to the Moon, while the Great Ocean to the Sea.

2.
Ella seems to be chosen by Memory but she was infected by Body. Both have active communication with her, but with the latest knowledge we got from the update, we don't exactly have a role for Body to fill. During deadend3, Ella calls Memory. The 50-50 hybrids seem to be Memory's project with Body being along for the ride.

If Syla is generally correct about Apostles, Ella is probably close to 50-50. She just failed to manifest Memory powers for whatever reasons. I have a theory in the offtopic, but I can't tell you anything for sure.

3.
Tanos tells Deryl that he also got his powers from the Rebis.
We know that Rebis is one of the Chosen who lead monsterkind thanks to the Memory Hound's vision during SIN Tournament.

 

[TangerineTango]

It's a bug/exploit. Used to be an infinite loop. WW "fixed it" but not correctly, so now you can use it to gain double stats from the tournament.

How exactly do you trigger this exploit? and is it possible to experience both paths using this exploit?

 

[KingAgamemnon]

2.
Ella seems to be chosen by Memory but she was infected by Body. Both have active communication with her, but with the latest knowledge we got from the update, we don't exactly have a role for Body to fill. During deadend3, Ella calls Memory. The 50-50 hybrids seem to be Memory's project with Body being along for the ride.

If Syla is generally correct about Apostles, Ella is probably close to 50-50. She just failed to manifest Memory powers for whatever reasons. I have a theory in the offtopic, but I can't tell you anything for sure.

Do you have a link for that theory? Cause I'm not sure if I agree with that idea. Even at the beginning, MC was displaying the Memory trait when he was copying people and animals just by touching them. We know that Ella had to manually learn and adapt her body to achieve similar feats, and though she had total control of her body, she still lacked the knowledge of how to make structures with it without learning it the hard way. In fact I seem to recall either you or someone else mentioning that we still don't have any real examples of Ella displaying the Memory trait. So I struggle to think she's 50/50. Seems pretty clear to me that she's all in on Body.

 

[Gtdead]

How exactly do you trigger this exploit? and is it possible to experience both paths using this exploit?

You trigger it by attempting to kill Jared after the Tournament is over. Charlie will stop you and Zack will reset the timeline so you have to do it all over again. The exploit is that why every variable associated with the infiltration resets to default, Power and Skill do not.

From MC's point of view, he only goes through the infiltration once no matter what.

Do you have a link for that theory? Cause I'm not sure if I agree with that idea. Even at the beginning, MC was displaying the Memory trait when he was copying people and animals just by touching them. We know that Ella had to manually learn and adapt her body to achieve similar feats, and though she had total control of her body, she still lacked the knowledge of how to make structures with it without learning it the hard way. In fact I seem to recall either you or someone else mentioning that we still don't have any real examples of Ella displaying the Memory trait. So I struggle to think she's 50/50. Seems pretty clear to me that she's all in on Body.

There is no single post that proposes this theory. It's still under discussion all over the place, however there are many indications that this is the case.
1. Ella during the "Explore my Body" segment, says that she isn't that good with Memory. Why would she be any good if she wasn't supposed to have that power? The way she says that doesn't make much sense for a pure Bodyspawn.
2. Syla says that Memory and Body (mostly Memory) want a 50-50 spawn.
3. We have good reason to suspect that the liquid Ella drinks during the St Arturius massacre is Memory's monster material. Why would she want to drink that if not to activate the memory powers? There is no precedent that a Superhuman can somehow gain a secondary trait.
4. During the same event, when MC gets infected by the pink liquid, he sees Memory calling Ella a failure. Why would Memory bother with Ella if she didn't have the potential in the first place?
5. During Deadend3, Ella learns that MC possesses the correct traits and instead of calling Body, she calls Memory. Why? We always assumed that Ella is the spawn of Body, but she doesn't have to be. The result would be the same if she was infected by Memory according to MC's progression.
6. We can catch Ella saying that MC and her are the same. Back then we couldn't understand why as Ella looked like Body only. Now we have information that aligns with that sentiment.

Basically the indications that Ella is supposed to be 50-50 or at least something of the sort, are overwhelming if you ask me.
I think people have the wrong idea about Ella, that she is somehow that amazing pure Bodyspawn. I've always disagreed with that, I think the flashbacks in her life align with my thoughts and this theory of 50-50 makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

You trigger it by attempting to kill Jared after the Tournament is over. Charlie will stop you and Zack will reset the timeline so you have to do it all over again. The exploit is that why every variable associated with the infiltration resets to default, Power and Skill do not.

From MC's point of view, he only goes through the infiltration once no matter what.



There is no single post that proposes this theory. It's still under discussion all over the place, however there are many indications that this is the case.
1. Ella during the "Explore my Body" segment, says that she isn't that good with Memory. Why would she be any good if she wasn't supposed to have that power? The way she says that doesn't make much sense for a pure Bodyspawn.
2. Syla says that Memory and Body (mostly Memory) want a 50-50 spawn.
3. We have good reason to suspect that the liquid Ella drinks during the St Arturius massacre is Memory's monster material. Why would she want to drink that if not to activate the memory powers? There is no precedent that a Superhuman can somehow gain a secondary trait.
4. During the same event, when MC gets infected by the pink liquid, he sees Memory calling Ella a failure. Why would Memory bother with Ella if she didn't have the potential in the first place?
5. During Deadend3, Ella learns that MC possesses the correct traits and instead of calling Body, she calls Memory. Why? We always assumed that Ella is the spawn of Body, but she doesn't have to be. The result would be the same if she was infected by Memory according to MC's progression.
6. We can catch Ella saying that MC and her are the same. Back then we couldn't understand why as Ella looked like Body only. Now we have information that aligns with that sentiment.

Basically the indications that Ella is supposed to be 50-50 or at least something of the sort, are overwhelming if you ask me.
I think people have the wrong idea about Ella, that she is somehow that amazing pure Bodyspawn. I've always disagreed with that, I think the flashbacks in her life align with my thoughts and this theory of 50-50 makes a lot of sense to me.

I feel like a lot of these are "we aren't sure why, but saying she has Memory in her helps to explain X, Y, Z." It doesn't really address the ultimate issue of how we've never seen her actually express the memory trait, despite being 50/50 according to this, and in fact we've seen examples of how she apparently does NOT have the Memory trait, which we learned from her school.

We've seen her use Body and nothing else. Perhaps Ella was an experiment of Memory, where they tried to take a purespawn of Body and get her acclimated towards a 50/50 split, which is why she consumes Memory material and is ultimately deemed a failure. Whether she was a failure because she didn't develop the Memory trait or because she failed to kill Christie, we can't be certain of atm.

We also still don't entirely understand why she has such a good connection to Memory and Body, considering the fact that even though we are a near perfect 50/50 spawn, we don't have the pleasure of regular get togethers or even a phone call from Memory and Body every now and again. So any arguments that begin with "she's in contact with Memory" run into assumption issues.

 

[sexoffended]

You trigger it by attempting to kill Jared after the Tournament is over. Charlie will stop you and Zack will reset the timeline so you have to do it all over again. The exploit is that why every variable associated with the infiltration resets to default, Power and Skill do not.

From MC's point of view, he only goes through the infiltration once no matter what.



There is no single post that proposes this theory. It's still under discussion all over the place, however there are many indications that this is the case.
1. Ella during the "Explore my Body" segment, says that she isn't that good with Memory. Why would she be any good if she wasn't supposed to have that power? The way she says that doesn't make much sense for a pure Bodyspawn.
2. Syla says that Memory and Body (mostly Memory) want a 50-50 spawn.
3. We have good reason to suspect that the liquid Ella drinks during the St Arturius massacre is Memory's monster material. Why would she want to drink that if not to activate the memory powers? There is no precedent that a Superhuman can somehow gain a secondary trait.
4. During the same event, when MC gets infected by the pink liquid, he sees Memory calling Ella a failure. Why would Memory bother with Ella if she didn't have the potential in the first place?
5. During Deadend3, Ella learns that MC possesses the correct traits and instead of calling Body, she calls Memory. Why? We always assumed that Ella is the spawn of Body, but she doesn't have to be. The result would be the same if she was infected by Memory according to MC's progression.
6. We can catch Ella saying that MC and her are the same. Back then we couldn't understand why as Ella looked like Body only. Now we have information that aligns with that sentiment.

Basically the indications that Ella is supposed to be 50-50 or at least something of the sort, are overwhelming if you ask me.
I think people have the wrong idea about Ella, that she is somehow that amazing pure Bodyspawn. I've always disagreed with that, I think the flashbacks in her life align with my thoughts and this theory of 50-50 makes a lot of sense to me.

Dude, you're kinda wrong.
1. Despite having 100% pure lineage MC has both traits no matter what, both Apostles display traits of their sibling during his infection.
2. Absolutely correct.
3. School massacre was intended to complete Ella's memory trait by eating a bunch of people who share memories with her under the influence of material from 4th. Likely it was late adoption initiated by Memory with blessing from Body.
4. Ella said that she can understand the function of anything she looks at. Her tinkering with eyes likely referrers to her ability to measure and exert energy in visual range without physical contact.
5. Because 50:50 split is Memory's initiative.
6. Ella and MC are the same because Ella possessed the potential to become what MC currently is.

 

[sexoffended]

Also we have an example of superhuman who awakened 2 traits from just 1 mixed monster.

 

[kibaris]

2.
Ella seems to be chosen by Memory but she was infected by Body. Both have active communication with her, but with the latest knowledge we got from the update, we don't exactly have a role for Body to fill. During deadend3, Ella calls Memory. The 50-50 hybrids seem to be Memory's project with Body being along for the ride.

Ella could have a 50-50 compatibility but failed to awaken memory trait (or only partialy), and once Ella was judged as a failure (after she failed to kill Christie), the 4th still used Ella to find another suited candidate for her experiment.
It would also made sens with what Sylla said about her being used for something else by the 4th. and also the signification behind "suitable to birth", Since Ella found mc and does everything in her power to ensure his growth, and also tried to create other like Jake or Michael.

But Ella is both 3rd and 4th chosen , during dead end 37 mc in is arbiter form refer to her as "their chosen" , and we see just after that he talk about Ella

Spoiler

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and that lead me to think , coupled with how the chosen are presented to us and what we can see about apostle and arbiter (6Arbiters, 12 Apostles,6Chosen) that they arent more than 6 chosen, only one per pair. and that each Chosen heart is needed to reborn the 6 arbiters.

no mater what, Aglaecwiff will conceive a child, either with Deryl or Mc and from what we know of the creature she inspired with, he will be an ennemy, even Valravn warned us, Also Aglaecwiff want a child "strong and powerfull.One so great he could challenge the gods themselves.."

Valravn also talked to mc about a futur fight between the two of them, and his heart was convoited by Ella, but was given back to him by deus (likely to ensure mc growth so that he's ready for later, and he also the one killing mc if he fail during dead end 37)

That chosen with red Lightning and a sword have great chance to be an ennemy since his connection with mc and him be locked by Sylla in mc memory.

The fairy isnt an ennemy per see, but the 6th wanted Alice to devour him, and with him be shown as indecisive, he could let alice devour him and his heart. Alice is a determined and strong willed women who could do what he couldnt, oppose to monster kind way.

Rebis guide Tanos through is research with twins so he could offer them his heart when they will be ready of he could become hostile and be killed by them .

Eiseth is captive for now but definitely a threat and during her fight she can have some control over reality despite beeing a chosent of truth, it lead me to think that Reality could be the 4th arbiter like Order,Evolution and Infinity.

A possible futur war between them could happen since Valravn refere the 2nd as ennemies and Valravn also attack mc if he think that we'r allies with the Fairy , also, later in his cellule when he know about mc lineage and talk with him, seem convinced that the two of them will fight.

We could have a conflict between two side with 3 Arbiters chosen, and with that we could maybe made a link with the Outher twin, two combination of 3 arbiter power Order Evolution and infinity against the 3 others. ( but of course it's purely a theory for this last part ^^)

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I feel like this whole, "Ella is a spawn of the Memory" falls apart when you remember that Valravn directly confirms that Ella is the spawn of the Body, not Memory. Aglaecwif points it out as well and there's the fact that the memories in the 3rd's vial calls her heir. Not sure why that last one gets overlooked so much whenever talking about the 4th's vial. There's also this very update itself which had Ella in the 3rd's spot, not the 4th's. It legit don't get no clearer than that.

Just because the 4th wants a half and half doesn't mean she infects them all herself. In fact, the 4th has no confirmed spawns or chosen at this moment because of the retcon to Aglaecwif. If you don't choose the 4th and reach the Syla dialogue, it literally doesn't change anything. Indicating that the 4th wanting 50/50 doesn't automatically mean she's their parent. All that means is there's a chance they can unlock the both traits if turned by her or the 3rd and she wants it to succeed.

If MC can get infected by the 3rd and still arrive to the same scenario then why are we wasting time speculating on something that doesn't need speculation? If it changes absolutely nothing with the MC, why get stuck on the idea that the 4th had to have turned Ella now? The 4th showing up for Ella doesn't actually prove anything because she took a pill that summons them. The 4th simply answered the call as that whole project is headed by her and she needs to fact check it.

Sure, Ella's not a "pure" 3rd Spawn and got some of the 4th in her. That doesn't change that she's only capable of fully using the 3rd's trait and not the 4th, hence the failure comment. In fact, this info actually changes nothing. We've always known and said Ella was a failure for not unlocking the memory trait. Her being a halfie just adds more context to that thought. It still doesn't matter though, as she still doesn't have the memory trait and until she actually shows any memory powers, it's pointless to keep bringing it up like she'll ever develop some. Like she said on her 5th Evolution, she's "not the one" and since she didn't unlock it there, she realistically never will.

It's fine to speculate but some of you are getting lose in it and creating these grand connections for otherwise straightforward info. You're only creating needless confusion. Not to mention, if MC can nearly evolve out of the memory trait, according to Syla, what makes anyone think Ella didn't fuck up even harder and evolved completely into the Body to the point that the memory trait couldn't develop and vanished? If it can nearly happen to MC and actually happened to Jake, then there's no reason to assume Ella is the exception.

 

[corewen]

I just discovered this game, the story is engrossing, like you should actually be writing a book. I would buy that book, the mythos the well thought out characters. It is just amazing.

 

[Dipasimaan]

Devlog 74 (Poll Results)

Hey, poll results are in.
Results are:
Exhibitionism - 83
Futa - 44
BDSM - 30
Breast Expansion - 14
Furry - 35
Amputee - 31

Exhibitionism wins, congratulations. Didn't expect it honestly, though for sure it'd be futa or furry, but I won't complain. So yeah, look forward to that scene next update, I'll see you next week.

 

[Gtdead]

Dude, you're kinda wrong.
1. Despite having 100% pure lineage MC has both traits no matter what, both Apostles display traits of their sibling during his infection.
2. Absolutely correct.
3. School massacre was intended to complete Ella's memory trait by eating a bunch of people who share memories with her under the influence of material from 4th. Likely it was late adoption initiated by Memory with blessing from Body.
4. Ella said that she can understand the function of anything she looks at. Her tinkering with eyes likely referrers to her ability to measure and exert energy in visual range without physical contact.
5. Because 50:50 split is Memory's initiative.
6. Ella and MC are the same because Ella possessed the potential to become what MC currently is.

How I'm "kinda wrong" when you can only respond with theories?
1. What is this about MC's 100% pure lineage? I don't get it. Do you mean Ella?
3. That's way too convoluted for me. We know that consumption increases power, we know that superhumans evolve when consuming monster material compatible with their power. Ella ate the students to gain power so she could succeed and not monsterfy, and used the Memory's monster material to evolve because she is compatible with it.
4. Or like she says, she just tinkered her eyes to see better, like Tanos' eye and these SIN visors do who are made "curtesy of Tanos' dear Ella".
6. Yes, by probably having the same genetic potential as MC, 50-50.

Also we have an example of superhuman who awakened 2 traits from just 1 mixed monster.

Who's that? I don't remember.

I feel like a lot of these are "we aren't sure why, but saying she has Memory in her helps to explain X, Y, Z." It doesn't really address the ultimate issue of how we've never seen her actually express the memory trait, despite being 50/50 according to this, and in fact we've seen examples of how she apparently does NOT have the Memory trait, which we learned from her school.

We've seen her use Body and nothing else. Perhaps Ella was an experiment of Memory, where they tried to take a purespawn of Body and get her acclimated towards a 50/50 split, which is why she consumes Memory material and is ultimately deemed a failure. Whether she was a failure because she didn't develop the Memory trait or because she failed to kill Christie, we can't be certain of atm.

We also still don't entirely understand why she has such a good connection to Memory and Body, considering the fact that even though we are a near perfect 50/50 spawn, we don't have the pleasure of regular get togethers or even a phone call from Memory and Body every now and again. So any arguments that begin with "she's in contact with Memory" run into assumption issues.

This can't be the ultimate issue. Memory calls her a failure, Ella thinks herself a failure as a level 4, and she calls herself a failure again when she evolves to level 5. The assumption that Ella failed to manifest Memory powers goes back to deadend3. This update didn't change that assumption but it gave us huge context with the 50-50 thing.

How much context one needs to start thinking that there is something odd about the earlier assumptions?
Ella is chosen by the the Apostles who look for a 50-50 Superhuman and the mastermind is assumed to be Memory.
We learn that MC is 50-50 and we know that Ella, who is praised for her ability to see compatibility, thinks she and him are the same.
Ella says "Hate to disappoint you, but memory has never been my strong suit, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help."

That's like Michael saying that "Authority was never my strong suit", or Alice saying "Time was never my strong suit". Do these things make any sense? No, because these individuals have never manifested any ability of the sort. Why suddenly Ella makes sense when she says that? She doesn't just say "hey, I can't really help you with memory since I don't know anything about it". She says that "I can't help you because I'm not good at it".

 

[Marvoch]

I feel like this whole, "Ella is a spawn of the Memory" falls apart when you remember that Valravn directly confirms that Ella is the spawn of the Body, not Memory. Aglaecwif points it out as well and there's the fact that the memories in the 3rd's vial calls her heir. Not sure why that last one gets overlooked so much whenever talking about the 4th's vial. There's also this very update itself which had Ella in the 3rd's spot, not the 4th's. It legit don't get no clearer than that.

Just because the 4th wants a half and half doesn't mean she infects them all herself. In fact, the 4th has no confirmed spawns or chosen at this moment because of the retcon to Aglaecwif. If you don't choose the 4th and reach the Syla dialogue, it literally doesn't change anything. Indicating that the 4th wanting 50/50 doesn't automatically mean she's their parent. All that means is there's a chance they can unlock the both traits if turned by her or the 3rd and she wants it to succeed.

If MC can get infected by the 3rd and still arrive to the same scenario then why are we wasting time speculating on something that doesn't need speculation? If it changes absolutely nothing with the MC, why get stuck on the idea that the 4th had to have turned Ella now? The 4th showing up for Ella doesn't actually prove anything because she took a pill that summons them. The 4th simply answered the call as that whole project is headed by her and she needs to fact check it.

Sure, Ella's not a "pure" 3rd Spawn and got some of the 4th in her. That doesn't change that she's only capable of fully using the 3rd's trait and not the 4th, hence the failure comment. In fact, this info actually changes nothing. We've always known and said Ella was a failure for not unlocking the memory trait. Her being a halfie just adds more context to that thought. It still doesn't matter though, as she still doesn't have the memory trait and until she actually shows any memory powers, it's pointless to keep bringing it up like she'll ever develop some. Like she said on her 5th Evolution, she's "not the one" and since she didn't unlock it there, she realistically never will.

It's fine to speculate but some of you are getting lose in it and creating these grand connections for otherwise straightforward info. You're only creating needless confusion. Not to mention, if MC can nearly evolve out of the memory trait, according to Syla, what makes anyone think Ella didn't fuck up even harder and evolved completely into the Body to the point that the memory trait couldn't develop and vanished? If it can nearly happen to MC and actually happened to Jake, then there's no reason to assume Ella is the exception.

Now, I'm not a master of lore, I'm putting the pieces together now that I'm done playing and I haven't seen some important things from what I understand (ending3, ending37, talk with Valravn). Ella is a spawn of Body, no question about that (several characters say so), but at the same time she has more than something of Memory in her, that's for sure (the vials, her comment about not knowing how to use memories very much, and the fact that she was trying to awaken the abilities related to memories during the massacre).

Since we know that she has been one of Tanos' subjects and that the latter is working on understanding the apostles' twin bonds, she was likely infected by Body, but as with the MC the infection was also attended by Memory (the two apostles stood there for 1 minute, probably doing things to the MC) and in this way she acquired both traits (being compatible with both of them), but failed to develop Memory's (becoming practically full-body or nearly so). Also, we know that if MC reveals in his first evolution that he's capable of using Memory powers, she kills him, possibly to consume him and become what she should have been (my theory). This leads me to believe she was intended as a 50\50, containing both the twin apostles' powers, becoming the personification of Evolution. Tanos now is probably moving to using human twins links to obtain similar results (being the two linked twins almost a single superhuman entity, with shared power and evolution and all that), since only the 3rd and the 4th are ok with creating a hybrid otherwise.

Having said that and in response to another post: now that I understand what a "chosen" is (finally), I don't think there are only 6. From the conversation with the dog monster, it turns out that those in the image are only the chosen ones known to it, not all of them. Besides, they don't have anything in common with arbiters, if my understanding is correct.

Also, I have another doubt.
As I had understood from the conversation with Aglaecwif, there are six pairs of twins among the apostles (each pair derivation of the original power of an arbiter, or at least I assume so). Tanos, however, states that there are two pairs of "twins", 6 per pair (1-6, 7-12). Other things hint at such a bipartition among the apostles in play. For example, there is a scene (I don't remember now triggered by what, but it was in the early parts of the game) in which MC sees the image of the Moon and hears its call and it is the first time this partition is hinted at. This led me to think there are two factions of apostles, but instead, in the theories I'm reading here, this doesn't seem to be considered. How come?

 

[eroul211]

You trigger it by attempting to kill Jared after the Tournament is over. Charlie will stop you and Zack will reset the timeline so you have to do it all over again. The exploit is that why every variable associated with the infiltration resets to default, Power and Skill do not.

From MC's point of view, he only goes through the infiltration once no matter what.



There is no single post that proposes this theory. It's still under discussion all over the place, however there are many indications that this is the case.
1. Ella during the "Explore my Body" segment, says that she isn't that good with Memory. Why would she be any good if she wasn't supposed to have that power? The way she says that doesn't make much sense for a pure Bodyspawn.
2. Syla says that Memory and Body (mostly Memory) want a 50-50 spawn.
3. We have good reason to suspect that the liquid Ella drinks during the St Arturius massacre is Memory's monster material. Why would she want to drink that if not to activate the memory powers? There is no precedent that a Superhuman can somehow gain a secondary trait.
4. During the same event, when MC gets infected by the pink liquid, he sees Memory calling Ella a failure. Why would Memory bother with Ella if she didn't have the potential in the first place?
5. During Deadend3, Ella learns that MC possesses the correct traits and instead of calling Body, she calls Memory. Why? We always assumed that Ella is the spawn of Body, but she doesn't have to be. The result would be the same if she was infected by Memory according to MC's progression.
6. We can catch Ella saying that MC and her are the same. Back then we couldn't understand why as Ella looked like Body only. Now we have information that aligns with that sentiment.

Basically the indications that Ella is supposed to be 50-50 or at least something of the sort, are overwhelming if you ask me.
I think people have the wrong idea about Ella, that she is somehow that amazing pure Bodyspawn. I've always disagreed with that, I think the flashbacks in her life align with my thoughts and this theory of 50-50 makes a lot of sense to me.

The 3th and 4th are liked to each other more then the other apostles, both can use each others power but not a the same length. At the start of the game when we choose body, we see him trying to get in or head but he struggles, so he needs to come closer and use his tentacles. If we choose memory she does it at a distance then she changes our "TOOL" and have a little fun.

 

[Gtdead]

I don't think anyone refutes that Ella is the spawn of the Third. This is confirmed. This whole discussion is about applying the same rules to Ella as we do for MC since the latest update gave us a reason to. I too used to think that Ella is full of shit and MC is beyond her comprehension. Now that we know MC isn't 100% compatible with both traits but only 50%, it changes a lot of things.

As I had understood from the conversation with Aglaecwif, there are six pairs of twins among the apostles (each pair derivation of the original power of an arbiter, or at least I assume so). Tanos, however, states that there are two pairs of "twins", 6 per pair (1-6, 7-12). Other things hint at such a bipartition among the apostles in play. For example, there is a scene (I don't remember now triggered by what, but it was in the early parts of the game) in which MC sees the image of the Moon and hears its call and it is the first time this partition is hinted at. This led me to think there are two factions of apostles, but instead, in the theories I'm reading here, this doesn't seem to be considered. How come?

Because the relationships are a bit over the place.
Monsters of the 7th, 9th and 10th are associated with Lord of Dark who wants to eat the Apostles but Eisheth is of the 9th and quite proud of it.
Power seems friendly towards MC while the relationship between Authority and Body & Memory seems a bit strained.

The scene you are looking for is MC's second evolution. The thing is that it doesn't really gives us any serious context. All it says is that the latter 6 Apostles are dead. We get some confirmation from Xanthe that this is the case, from the Library, Tiffany's infection and during Michael's and Tiffany's evolution, but then we learn that Claudia is to artificially become a spawn of Time, which may mean that he is dead too. We assume that by "dead" it means that their avatars are dead, not the Apostles themselves.

Then there's the whole alt-human memories who point to the invasion from moon and sea, but Apostles don't look like an invasion force. There's the SIN satelites pointing missiles to the moon but SIN are friends with the Apostles' Chosen.

The allied Chosen themselves seem to be of 2nd, 6th, 9th and 12th.

 

[sexoffended]

How I'm "kinda wrong" when you can only respond with theories?
1. What is this about MC's 100% pure lineage? I don't get it. Do you mean Ella?
3. That's way too convoluted for me. We know that consumption increases power, we know that superhumans evolve when consuming monster material compatible with their power. Ella ate the students to gain power so she could succeed and not monsterfy, and used the Memory's monster material to evolve because she is compatible with it.
4. Or like she says, she just tinkered her eyes to see better, like Tanos' eye and these SIN visors do who are made "curtesy of Tanos' dear Ella".
6. Yes, by probably having the same genetic potential as MC, 50-50.



Who's that? I don't remember.



This can't be the ultimate issue. Memory calls her a failure, Ella thinks herself a failure as a level 4, and she calls herself a failure again when she evolves to level 5. The assumption that Ella failed to manifest Memory powers goes back to deadend3. This update didn't change that assumption but it gave us huge context with the 50-50 thing.

How much context one needs to start thinking that there is something odd about the earlier assumptions?
Ella is chosen by the the Apostles who look for a 50-50 Superhuman and the mastermind is assumed to be Memory.
We learn that MC is 50-50 and we know that Ella, who is praised for her ability to see compatibility, thinks she and him are the same.
Ella says "Hate to disappoint you, but memory has never been my strong suit, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help."

That's like Michael saying that "Authority was never my strong suit", or Alice saying "Time was never my strong suit". Do these things make any sense? No, because these individuals have never manifested any ability of the sort. Why suddenly Ella makes sense when she says that? She doesn't just say "hey, I can't really help you with memory since I don't know anything about it". She says that "I can't help you because I'm not good at it".

1. Ella and MC both are pure spawn of an Apostle. MC can use both traits regardless. Ella aside from transforming can know object's composition, function and ways to manipulate just by looking at it.
3. MC gains power not from eating brain matter, but from claiming and consuming memories contained within. Ella tried to deepen/complete her Memory by eating a bunch of people she'd spent several years with while Memory tried to contact her via material from the vial. Different powers grow from different things. Michael f.e. grows internal power by consuming and storing energy.
4. Tanos's eye, SIN visors and Ella's eyes do just one thing - measure energy. Also Ella displayed an ability to separate her body parts without losing control and change shape of different things remotely during her fight with Nico. It would be a bit of a stretch, but I'd say that she can use shapeshifting for inanimate objects without physical contact.
6. Perfect natural 50:50 split is even rarer than high compatibility with any single Apostle as claimed by Syla. Ella probably had very high Body and minor Memory aptitude.

Nyx has both the energy sapping of Dark and memoryscape as displayed by MC from 1st evo. Her Memory is triggered only by death, and Dark can manifest "illusions/imitations" only in conjunction with memories of the dead.

 

[Gtdead]

1. Ella and MC both are pure spawn of an Apostle. MC can use both traits regardless. Ella aside from transforming can know object's composition, function and ways to manipulate just by looking at it.
3. MC gains power not from eating brain matter, but from claiming and consuming memories contained within. Ella tried to deepen/complete her Memory by eating a bunch of people she'd spent several years with while Memory tried to contact her via material from the vial. Different powers grow from different things. Michael f.e. grows internal power by consuming and storing energy.
4. Tanos's eye, SIN visors and Ella's eyes do just one thing - measure energy. Also Ella displayed an ability to separate her body parts without losing control and change shape of different things remotely during her fight with Nico. It would be a bit of a stretch, but I'd say that she can use shapeshifting for inanimate objects without physical contact.
6. Perfect natural 50:50 split is even rarer than high compatibility with any single Apostle as claimed by Syla. Ella probably had very high Body and minor Memory aptitude.

Nyx has both the energy sapping of Dark and memoryscape as displayed by MC from 1st evo. Her Memory is triggered only by death, and Dark can manifest "illusions/imitations" only in conjunction with memories of the dead.

1. How would anyone be a spawn of more than one Apostle anyway? The premise is about what Syla said in relation to purity and compatibility. Why do you make this counterargument in the first place?
3. MC and Ella gain power by consuming meat. This happens both in train48 where MC follows Ella's advice and during the Michael's dream. If Ella has no Memory powers, why would it matter if she consumes the brains of people she knew? According to Syla, getting random junk memories is bad practice anyway. That's why she urges MC to connect to Apostles instead and insinuates that quality memories may be able to make up for a weaker trait.
4. They also include x-ray vision, measure age and Tanos' eye measures compatibility. She says so during the Twin infection scene. Ella is known to be able to transmute things at range, she also has that red aura which allows her to do the same.
6. Indeed it's rare, but still Ella claims that MC is like her. MC is 50-50. What is the common point that she can observe with her special eyes?

Nyx has the trait of a particular monster. She doesn't have both Dark and Memory, she has the mixed trait, just like Kenny doesn't have Authority and Body but Minyak, Met doesn't have Power and Space but Leigong etc.

All that we know about Nyx is that she is a "unique adaptation" and much more powerful, but Met is also much more powerful than the Leigong and the adaptation can be anything, after all Met doesn't use crystals to shoot lightning.

 

[sexoffended]

1. How would anyone be a spawn of more than one Apostle anyway? The premise is about what Syla said in relation to purity and compatibility. Why do you make this counterargument in the first place?
3. MC and Ella gain power by consuming meat. This happens both in train48 where MC follows Ella's advice and during the Michael's dream. If Ella has no Memory powers, why would it matter if she consumes the brains of people she knew? According to Syla, getting random junk memories is bad practice anyway. That's why she urges MC to connect to Apostles instead and insinuates that quality memories may be able to make up for a weaker trait.
4. They also include x-ray vision, measure age and Tanos' eye measures compatibility. She says so during the Twin infection scene. Ella is known to be able to transmute things at range, she also has that red aura which allows her to do the same.
6. Indeed it's rare, but still Ella claims that MC is like her. MC is 50-50. What is the common point that she can observe with her special eyes?

Nyx has the trait of a particular monster. She doesn't have both Dark and Memory, she has the mixed trait, just like Kenny doesn't have Authority and Body but Minyak, Met doesn't have Power and Space but Leigong etc.

All that we know about Nyx is that she is a "unique adaptation" and much more powerful, but Met is also much more powerful than the Leigong and the adaptation can be anything, after all Met doesn't use crystals to shoot lightning.

1. I'm saying that lineage and inheritance are not 100% connected.
3. Ella has partial Memory trait. She just refused to do the necessary for her part of awakening it by ripping out her heart with the remaining humanity and killed the rest of her body, as it went out of control and tried to eat Christie - someone she shares a whole lot of memories. Eating meat doesn't give them power, but allows to use molecular hammerspace to use real materials instead of materialising new, conserving power. Also it's possible for corruption itself giving a tiny bit of power from better connection between original and monster part of a superhuman. Junk memories are bad not because they're detrimental per se, but they ruin overall coherence and waste space.
4. Honestly I forgot the X-ray part. Nonetheless even if a physical device can be made from materials of different species, same cannot be said about Ella. Still makes sense for her to have visual connection to material Memory.
6. Common point for both is their status as chosen and direct spawn for a twin pair.

Nyx clearly has two distinct traits. Incomplete but synergistic.
Leigong is about 1/3 8th. Met is able to use magnetism of lightning, energy control of Power and space fuckery of Ether to apply force on objects charged by him in any direction, not just along magnetic lines. Example of monster lineage being transformed in a spawn.

 

[turbojoe]

Regarding to the discussion above I recognized there is a lot to discover and learn in front of me

I´m staying at Day 20

 

[Marvoch]

Regarding to the discussion above I recognized there is a lot to discover and learn in front of me

I´m staying at Day 20

Huh! By day 20 I was still super-confused. I didn't even realise that the fourth apostle and the third were distinct entities. But that's the beauty of the game, putting the little pieces together and building up everything there is to understand. Anyway, watch out for spoilers in here. Some things are nice to experience without knowing about them first.

For sexoffended,
You are basically saying the same thing to Gtdead, only in two different nuances. We are saying that in Ella's Memory's powers (not awakened) there is the hand of the fourth apostle, on the other hand, you say that she awakened them more independently (failing to do so). But remember, though, that genetic compatibility does not give access to power; it is one's monster parent that grants the powers, which then take hold based on the genetic code of the infected (thus based on spawn compatibility with them) and the spawn mindset. If there is no compatibility between the genetic code and the origin of the monster's powers, I guess you just die. Low compatibility, on the other hand, generates a weak superhuman.

From what I understand you are saying that the third and fourth partially share each other's powers (as a minor trait) and that therefore the third's infection of Ella and her compatibility with Memory led to the possibility of having access to Memory's powers, only that she failed the process to awaken them (and since third and fourth are related to Evolution, it fits as a hypothesis).
Instead, we are more inclined, for one reason or another, to consider that Ella is an experiment by Memory to create a 50\50 spawn (precisely because Ella had a similar body to MC, as she stated), even though Ella's monster father is Body, which is plausible to be true because MC can be the spawn of Body and still be a balanced 50\50 spawn.