VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[DrakoGhoul]

Are the Hexenringe artificial? Or are they a natural offspring? Though we don't really know, the Daoine Sidhe should have no way of creating an artificial monster, especially not one with their power.

If they're a natural offspring, then it's easy to see why they'd have body; their parents would have had the ether trait (obviously) and the body trait, for the reasons mentioned above, likely with something else mixed in. The Hexenringes being, according to Ella iirc, more like constructs than living being, doesn't necessarily mean they were constructed. It could very well just be their general properties, like thought process, form, etc.

They're full on constructs. They're not born via infection or sex. At least not the original ones. It is possible that the Fairies made a few of them to start and then had them use the infection process to make the later ones. However, it might not come out as a typical Hexenringe, if that happened. Nico, for example, might look like a Dyson sphere or one of those biblical Angels, if she turned into a monster.

As for how the Daoine Sidhe created semi sentient rings? Who knows. But we know they did it and according to Xanthe, they're closely related to the Daoine Sidhe. With Nico saying they only have control over space.

 

[OnlineRando]

I think Memory has the ability to copy powers but with a gist.
It works like a polymorph spell. You can't retain your old powers while polymorphed. You can only use the powers of the new form or revert to your original form. Also if in the mean time your polymorphed form breaks, you take some proportional damage and revert to your original form.

So Memory can't "copy" powers in a broad sense. Only transform to to forms that possess different powers.

The reason I believe this is both the Silat, and Syla's ability to transform at will to random forms like a "young girl" to feed her heart to Valravn, derived from their conversation during MC's dream training.

However since MC has the body trait too, perhaps he may be capable of more.

How you said it works makes sense; if your monster power has different qualities, it'd only make sense if you can't use it in the same way. But how you go around doing it doesn't. What memory change, or information change, could by itself transform someone's power into something different?

Within the Other World, it makes perfect sense. Everything in there is information. How a regular Silat does it also makes sense, since I doubt every single one of them is a perfect memory user, so them having a combination that lets them copy powers makes sense. But by itself, in the real, tangible world, memory as we currently understand it shouldn't be able to change someone's powers.

 

[OnlineRando]

They're full on constructs. They're not born via infection or sex. At least not the original ones. It is possible that the Fairies made a few of them to start and then had them use the infection process to make the later ones. However, it might not come out as a typical Hexenringe, if that happened. Nico, for example, might look like a Dyson sphere or one of those biblical Angels, if she turned into a monster.

As for how the Daoine Sidhe created semi sentient rings? Who knows. But we know they did it and according to Xanthe, they're closely related to the Daoine Sidhe. With Nico saying they only have control over space.

My guess as to how the Hexenringe were created would be... Rebis. It should be perfectly capable of creating an artificial monster, after all, and is allied with the Aos. However, why would it make the Hexenringe a perfect space user? Even assuming they're completely constructs, their purpose would have been to be a tool, and there's no reason to make what's basically a copy of the Daoine Sidhe for them to use as tools. They were probably made for more specialized teleportation than the Daoine Sidhe can usually achieve, so mixing and matching traits to better accomplish that would make sense.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

My guess as to how the Hexenringe were created would be... Rebis. It should be perfectly capable of creating an artificial monster, after all, and is allied with the Aos. However, why would it make the Hexenringe a perfect space user? Even assuming they're completely constructs, their purpose would have been to be a tool, and there's no reason to make what's basically a copy of the Daoine Sidhe for them to use as tools. They were probably made for more specialized teleportation than the Daoine Sidhe can usually achieve, so mixing and matching traits to better accomplish that would make sense.

They have one job and that's being a space taxi. The Daoine Sidhe likely created them for that purpose. Either because they can't teleport more than themselves and that would help make invasions easier. Or so they could loan out Hexenringes for whatever possible gain they could acquire.

As far as Rebis helping. Anything's possible, but the Sky People had advanced technology of their own. And since Aos has the sky fortress, he could've discovered a way to make constructs himself a long time ago.

 

[OnlineRando]

They have one job and that's being a space taxi. The Daoine Sidhe likely created them for that purpose. Either because they can't teleport more than themselves and that would help make invasions easier. Or so they could loan out Hexenringes for whatever possible gain they could acquire.

As far as Rebis helping. Anything's possible, but the Sky People had advanced technology of their own. And since Aos has the sky fortress, he could've discovered a way to make constructs himself a long time ago.

That's... basically what I said, with the exclusion of other traits. If they had the same trait makeup as the Daoine Sidhe, they'd have had the exact same powers.

 

[UncleFappy]

How you said it works makes sense; if your monster power has different qualities, it'd only make sense if you can't use it in the same way. But how you go around doing it doesn't. What memory change, or information change, could by itself transform someone's power into something different?

Within the Other World, it makes perfect sense. Everything in there is information. How a regular Silat does it also makes sense, since I doubt every single one of them is a perfect memory user, so them having a combination that lets them copy powers makes sense. But by itself, in the real, tangible world, memory as we currently understand it shouldn't be able to change someone's powers.

Maybe it has to do with the fidelity of the memory and the mechanic of its manifestation. Like, you aren't changing someone's power insomuch as you are manifesting the Memory of that power being used. Its like a little reality warp, where you temporarily lock your personal reality into whatever Memory you are bringing forth.

 

[OnlineRando]

Maybe it has to do with the fidelity of the memory and the mechanic of its manifestation. Like, you aren't changing someone's power insomuch as you are manifesting the Memory of that power being used. Its like a little reality warp, where you lock your personal reality into whatever Memory you are bringing forth.

But why would it warp reality in the first place?

 

[UncleFappy]

But why would it warp reality in the first place?

Yeah, I dunno. I'm trying to come up with something other than "maybe thats just what Memory does when its manifested into reality", but I got zilch.

Also, I suppose warping reality like that would be the domain of Truth and Fantasy. Maybe one of those is the secondary trait of the Silat? And thats why they can copy powers? Iirc, Niko says something like they don't shapeshift using their body but using immaterial things like memories/concept. So while their bodies ARE being transformed, its not through Body shapeshifting. Its Truth or Fantasy reality warping their bodies to shift using the Memory as a template.

 

[OnlineRando]

Yeah, I dunno. I'm trying to come up with something other than "maybe thats just what Memory does when its manifested into reality", but I got zilch.

Also, I suppose warping reality like that would be the domain of Truth and Fantasy. Maybe one of those is the secondary trait of the Silat? And thats why they can copy powers? Iirc, Niko says something like they don't shapeshift using their body but using immaterial things like memories/concept. So while their bodies ARE being transformed, its not through Body shapeshifting. Its Truth or Fantasy reality warping their bodies to shift using the Memory as a template.

Possibly. Fantasy is basically illusions, so I don't think it has much to do with the Silats, while truth seems like it's about determining how things should be, so it might be involved.

My guess would be memory, power, and truth, but I guess we'll see.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

That's... basically what I said, with the exclusion of other traits. If they had the same trait makeup as the Daoine Sidhe, they'd have had the exact same powers.

I know? However, I'm saying they likely didn't need Rebis at all to accomplish that. As they're constructs with a single purpose and the Sky humans themselves had some very advanced technology.

Either way, they're largely tied to space with no deviations beyond removing the Graviton side of the Ether Trait.

 

[OnlineRando]

I know? However, I'm saying they likely didn't need Rebis at all to accomplish that. As they're constructs with a single purpose and the Sky humans themselves had some very advanced technology.

Either way, they're largely tied to space with no deviations beyond removing the Graviton side of the Ether Trait.

The sky humans are dead, Aos wasn't a scientist or something, so their technology is probably lost for the most part. And how would one remove a whole ass part of a trait just like that and still get a functioning power? Would that make the power be like 60%~ Ether and that's it? And can a power even work like that?

 

[johndqdo]

Only me that sometimes it's just amazing about the lore of this game? Fuck, this is a porn game for God's sake!

When we go to other forums in this site, the discussion always is about sex, in a way or another, but here? Lore, lore and lore. And I just love it! I'm coming here every day just to read the comments.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

The sky humans are dead, Aos wasn't a scientist or something, so their technology is probably lost for the most part. And how would one remove a whole ass part of a trait just like that and still get a functioning power? Would that make the power be like 60%~ Ether and that's it? And can a power even work like that?

If the Seahumans tech was still functional for MC to use after God knows how many centuries. I don't see why it wouldn't be for the Skyhumans after their fall. Also, it's not like the Hexenringes are implied to be a recent thing or something. They could've been created after Danu and Aos got their revenge. So the aged tech angle doesn't really hold weight.

As far as isolating powers goes. I'm sure they had the tech for it. Both Seahumans and Skyhumans enslaved and experimented on monsters. The Seahumans teleportation tech was likely based off of parts from the 6th line, for example. Also, if Xanthe can create weapons with specific functions. I don't see why it would be too difficult for the much more advanced races to create constructs with specific purposes. Hell, didn't Aos do that with some golems or something in this update?

Anyway, I said all the thoughts I had on this subject. Rebis or not, Hexenringe are created by Daoine Sidhe and they are majority of space.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Nico is purely space though. There's no other monster mixed with her. Hexenringe aren't like Hex where they have a bit of Time in them. They're made as constructs by Daoine Sidhe as tools to teleport. As far as we know, they're only made with space. Also, Syla said Greater Spawns should be pure. Not that all greater spawns are pure. And if you're just going to stretch it to 2nd Gen, why wouldn't their spawns be considered one too? Especially if they maintained the purity of the core trait with little to no difference? Seems strange to suggest a strong cut off when there's a chance the trait didn't weaken.

I'll have redownload the game and check Syla's portion in Immaterial World again because I feel like there's some context being missed here.

There is a distinction between Pure Spawns (Spawns with high or perfect compatibility with a trait) and Greater Spawns (Spawns of an Apostle/Chosen). Greater Spawns are typically also pure spawns, but that's mostly by Apostle preference. MC and Michael are examples of Greater Spawns that aren't Pure Spawns.

 

[OnlineRando]

If the Seahumans tech was still functional for MC to use after God knows how many centuries. I don't see why it wouldn't be for the Skyhumans after their fall. Also, it's not like the Hexenringes are implied to be a recent thing or something. They could've been created after Danu and Aos got their revenge. So the aged tech angle doesn't really hold weight.

As far as isolating powers goes. I'm sure they had the tech for it. Both Seahumans and Skyhumans enslaved and experimented on monsters. The Seahumans teleportation tech was likely based off of parts from the 6th line, for example. Also, if Xanthe can create weapons with specific functions. I don't see why it would be too difficult for the much more advanced races to create constructs with specific purposes. Hell, didn't Aos do that with some golems or something in this update?

Anyway, I said all the thoughts I had on this subject. Rebis or not, Hexenringe are created by Daoine Sidhe and they are majority of space.

Lost as in incapable of being utilized due to lack of knowledge/privilege, lack of maintenance, and potentially ruined by whatever made the sky humans die out.

And even assuming the tech is intact, this still isn't great reasoning for why they would be able to literally split traits. Creating a teleporting device is one thing, a device that supports and is powered by a certain power another, and straight up making a functioning monster with seemingly two-thirds or less than its intended makeup, a completely different story. How would they even infect someone? Does Nico only have 60% of a trait? Come on.

Just like Lexi can create and control metal much better than even Ella, at the same level, mixtures of Ether and other traits could easily produce a monster with powers made to specifically teleport people. It's much less of a stretch than saying they just created a monster with what's effectively 60% or less than its DNA intact.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

Lost as in incapable of being utilized due to lack of knowledge/privilege, lack of maintenance, and potentially ruined by whatever made the sky humans die out.

And even assuming the tech is intact, this still isn't great reasoning for why they would be able to literally split traits. Creating a teleporting device is one thing, a device that supports and is powered by a certain power another, and straight up making a functioning monster with seemingly two-thirds or less than its intended makeup, a completely different story. How would they even infect someone? Does Nico only have 60% of a trait? Come on.

Just like Lexi can create and control metal much better than even Ella, at the same level, mixtures of Ether and other traits could easily produce a monster with powers made to specifically teleport people. It's much less of a stretch than saying they just created a monster with what's effectively 60% or less than its DNA intact.

I said all that needs to be said on this subject. Anything beyond it now seems more towards who likes their own speculation more and is willing to argue about it. The game told us the Daoine Sidhe created the Hexenringes and they're constructs. We also know their only use is for teleportation via Space. That's all we know on this subject. Rebis did this or Daoine Sidhe used this method is nothing but pure speculation. The method they used for it is something only WW knows, for now.

So I'm just going to leave this topic at that.

 

[Obliviousdemonchild666]

But why would it warp reality in the first place?

memory as "information" as the comments above suggested makes the idea of warping reality pretty reasonable. if you can stretch "body" to be matter manipulation based on the form and function of things and people than "information" could be stretched to mean laws of reality like "1's" and "0's" being repeated without fail as unbreakable natural laws. plus if twin apostles have some of the others traits than a spawn of memory being able to copy another's form perfectly to the point where they have their power and the status of their original form is overwritten (such as valravn getting sustenance from syla's heart even though she's obviously not actually young which is stated as being a necessity for val and not just him being an asshole) makes sense. frankly i think it's obvious memory has to do something big (other than providing resistance to the mental domination of "authority" or the ability to travel to the other world) in order to justify the MC eventually becoming as strong as actual planet busters like malik or reality warpers like eiseth.

 

[OnlineRando]

memory as "information" as the comments above suggested makes the idea of warping reality pretty reasonable. if you can stretch "body" to be matter manipulation based on the form and function of things and people than "information" could be stretched to mean laws of reality like "1's" and "0's" being repeated without fail as unbreakable natural laws. plus if twin apostles have some of the others traits than a spawn of memory being able to copy another's form perfectly to the point where they have their power and the status of their original form is overwritten (such as valravn getting sustenance from syla's heart even though she's obviously not actually young which is stated as being a necessity for val and not just him being an asshole) makes sense. frankly i think it's obvious memory has to do something big (other than providing resistance to the mental domination of "authority" or the ability to travel to the other world) in order to justify the MC eventually becoming as strong as actual planet busters like malik or reality warpers like eiseth.

I thought about that, but that's just not how that works realistically.

Firstly, I'll start by saying that body affecting matter makes basically perfect sense. Body, as in body of matter. Form, if you will.

Secondly, as I said above, that isn't how information works. I think I've heard of a bunch of theories and frameworks that propose that information, and the interaction between information, is the underlying... thing, in reality (I think they were called bits), but there just isn't proof that this is the case. Information, as currently understood, is distinct from the actual state of matter.

Information, at the most basic level, is just the way something perceives that change is happening. For example, someone feeling hot is the brain processing information through the body's senses, and said brain decides to respond in a certain way.

Certain things can change their physical state according to information (the body/brain for example), but unlike matter, information isn't constant or objective, it's subjectively interpreted. Let's use heat as an example; A human doesn't process or perceive the information their senses give them about how hot it is like a thermostat does. It decides itself whether or not it should tweak its operations according to how hot it is, while the thermostat assigns the heat an arbitrary number. The thermostat can even be wrong, from a human perspective, but according to its design, the number displayed is always right.

That leads me to me saying that, no matter how either the brain or the thermostat perceives the heat, or even if they don't, the fact remains that it's still there. Regardless of the number displayed on the thermostat, if it's objectively hot enough, the thermostat will melt, or freeze if its cold. Regardless of how hot my body is feeling, if I'm standing in a lake of lava I will evaporate.

So basically, information is just a subjectively interpreted reflection of the physical. There is no 1's and 0's of reality to hack, at least in terms of information, since the information we're talking about isn't even strictly "real", in the sense that it just reflects the so called body, being the physical.

 

[Rutonat]

I thought about that, but that's just not how that works realistically.

Homie.
This is not a realistic game. Not by a longshot.
It's universe literally functions on its own rules.

 

[UncleFappy]

I thought about that, but that's just not how that works realistically.

Firstly, I'll start by saying that body affecting matter makes basically perfect sense. Body, as in body of matter. Form, if you will.

Secondly, as I said above, that isn't how information works. I think I've heard of a bunch of theories and frameworks that propose that information, and the interaction between information, is the underlying... thing, in reality (I think they were called bits), but there just isn't proof that this is the case. Information, as currently understood, is distinct from the actual state of matter.

Information, at the most basic level, is just the way something perceives change. Certain things can change their physical state according to information (the body/brain for example), but unlike matter, information isn't constant or objective, it's subjectively interpreted. Let's use heat as an example; A human doesn't process or perceive the information their senses give them about how hot it is like a thermostat does. It decides itself whether or not it should tweak its operations according to how hot it is, while the thermostat assigns the heat an arbitrary number. The thermostat can even be wrong, from a human perspective, but according to its design, the number displayed is always right.

That leads me to me saying that, no matter how either the brain or the thermostat perceives the heat, or even if they don't, the fact remains that it's still there. Regardless of the number displayed on the thermostat, if it's objectively hot enough, the thermostat will melt, or freeze if its cold. Regardless of how hot my body is feeling, if I'm standing in a lake of lava I will evaporate.

So basically, information is just a subjectively interpreted reflection of the physical. There is no 1's and 0's of reality to hack, at least in terms of information, since the information we're talking about isn't even strictly "real", in the sense that it just reflects the so called body, being the physical.

This is fiction, though. And if WW wants information to be the underlying pin of reality, thats what it'll be. Just like Warren Ellis did in Planetary, for example. Its fictional physics.

I don't really buy the idea for Superhuman, but I wouldn't rule it out with a "but this is how its supposed to work" argument.