Ren'Py Completed SuperPowered [v0.45.02] [Night City Productions]

[sillyrobot]

I think Unity is overkill for a game like this. That is why I wonder why Something Unlimited is done in Unity - it would work perfectly well as a Ren'py game. A dev should choose the engine that is best suited for their game from the onset. Changing engines in mid development can lead to the game slipping into development hell and being needlessly delayed - Duke Nukem Forever case in point. Or worse the game never being finished.

Unity supports one of the dev's complaints better than ren'py -- a WYSIWYG screen development that he apparently likes for the combat screen and similar visually rich interfaces. It also consolidates all games under development to an single game engine.

It does nothing to support his other complaints -- writer's block when dealing with deep conversations, narrative depth, and complex interaction sets requiring many renders for characters as a base. Adjustments to game play are expected to address these elements. It remains to be seen if such changes result in a game that remains interesting to play.

 

[Cartageno]

I think Unity is overkill for a game like this. That is why I wonder why Something Unlimited is done in Unity - it would work perfectly well as a Ren'py game. A dev should choose the engine that is best suited for their game from the onset. Changing engines in mid development can lead to the game slipping into development hell and being needlessly delayed - Duke Nukem Forever case in point. Or worse the game never being finished.

While Unity may be overkill, Ren'Py isn't really made with games with these many complicated stats and relations in mind either. Is it capable of doing so? Obviously, we see it in this game. But doing all this stuff may create way more headaches than a "stronger" engine.

Also, regardless of objective qualities, different programmers just may prefer different tools, be they programming languages, engines, other software, because for them it just flows better, they have a more intuitive understanding of what to do. E. g. when studying a STEM subject, TeX/LaTeX is objectively better for writing texts than office oriented word processors. Yet, when given the choice, many people will still use Word or similar because they feel more at home with it.

 

[HillDweller]

Ren'Py isn't really made with games with these many complicated stats and relations in mind either.

I disagree. Renpy uses Python, which is used from startups to film production companies, big pharma, AI, data science and Youtube, among a ton of other industries.
Python is a general purpose language with modern semantics and reasonable affordances for structuring big codebases.
Renpy as an engine does have contraints of course, but I'm not convinced that SuperPowered's problems are due to them. IMHO Baal's stated gripes for discontinuing SuperPowered have more to do with him overcomplicating his code structure and his game's design than with any alleged Renpy or Python shortcoming.

Also, regardless of objective qualities, different programmers just may prefer different tools, be they programming languages, engines, other software, because for them it just flows better, they have a more intuitive understanding of what to do.

That's true, but if you're senior enough, you can take a step back and see the big picture and work to your tools' strengths to achieve whatever it is you set out to do even over a multi year project.
It does take superhuman feats of self-discipline, especially on a one-man project where you wear all the hats that would normally be spread across a team, but it's possible, and after all, you're charging people for it.

In the end, I think Baal simply burned out on SuperPowered's codebase and design and longed for a fresh start, which seems to be a common temptation these days. Management would absolutely not let you get away with it if you had management above you.

 

[Cartageno]

I disagree. Renpy uses Python, which is used from startups to film production companies, big pharma, AI, data science and Youtube, among a ton of other industries.
Python is a general purpose language with modern semantics and reasonable affordances for structuring big codebases.
Renpy as an engine does have contraints of course, but I'm not convinced that SuperPowered's problems are due to them. IMHO Baal's stated gripes for discontinuing SuperPowered have more to do with him overcomplicating his code structure and his game's design than with any alleged Renpy or Python shortcoming.



That's true, but if you're senior enough, you can take a step back and see the big picture and work to your tools' strengths to achieve whatever it is you set out to do even over a multi year project.
It does take superhuman feats of self-discipline, especially on a one-man project where you wear all the hats that would normally be spread across a team, but it's possible, and after all, you're charging people for it.

In the end, I think Baal simply burned out on SuperPowered's codebase and design and longed for a fresh start, which seems to be a common temptation these days. Management would absolutely not let you get away with it if you had management above you.

First, I am completely d'accord with your main conclusion: the engine isn't/wasn't the issue, even though Baal might have felt it. The descriptions of his problems were of a completely different nature in my eyes, too, and switching to whatever other engine won't solve them.

My post thusly only referred to the part of "I don't get why somebody wouldn't use Ren'Py" and I gave some possible reasons. And while Python is used for many applications and does them reasonably well, it isn't ideal and I'd argue if you try to solve everything with Python or want to use Ren'Py for every game, it may just be the point in time you mention where you have to step back and reconsider whether there aren't better options for the task at hand. It's not that it can't handle it, it's just that other approaches may be better. Same for Ren'Py as an overlay. It can do amazing things probably never imagined when this got started, as we can see from various games on here, including this. But there just may be better options for you as a dev.

I know that you meant the "stepping back" exactly the other way round but I think that here you don't need to play to the tool's strengths if you have a better tool available. Of course if we're talking larger companies there's a lot of other considerations to be taken into account - you don't want your programming language, your engine, your whatever software getting too specific to be able to switch personnel between projects, if you're afraid that a couple years down the line only some niche specialists will still be able to maintain your software - at exorbitant rates of course - and so forth, so you have a bias towards the known quantity. But for a single guy or a small group with one project that will (hopefully) eventually be finished and not kept up to date and so on, those do not need to be taken into account.

 

[HillDweller]

I know that you meant the "stepping back" exactly the other way round but I think that here you don't need to play to the tool's strengths if you have a better tool available.

But then again, I wish these resets didn't happen in the middle of unfinished projects as often as they do
If you're growing as a developer and your chosen tool starts to hold you back, good for you in a way, but also, finish the damn thing AND THEN start a new thing.
Same goes for art remakes in the middle of the project - that is complete bullshit, unprofessional behavior.

I've seen arguments that people subscribe to creators for their time and not for products, but then this gives creators the freedom to do whatever TF they want with their time and this results in 99% of games not being finished. The open ended suscriber model is anti consumer, or at the least, we need a more structured goals system, with actual consequences for breaking promises.

 

[Cartageno]

But then again, I wish these resets didn't happen in the middle of unfinished projects as often as they do
If you're growing as a developer and your chosen tool starts to hold you back, good for you in a way, but also, finish the damn thing AND THEN start a new thing.
Same goes for art remakes in the middle of the project - that is complete bullshit, unprofessional behavior.

I've seen arguments that people subscribe to creators for their time and not for products, but then this gives creators the freedom to do whatever TF they want with their time and this results in 99% of games not being finished. The open ended suscriber model is anti consumer, or at the least, we need a more structured goals system, with actual consequences for breaking promises.

I completely agree on the art aspect. And yes, I have seen quite a few games in the unfortunate limbo of "being adapted to the new software (version or really new software)" over and over again, I could name one in its fifth iteration due to this (maybe by now even further, stopped following it since it will probably never really get forward). However, since you metioned "unprofessional" - many here are not professionals and completely new to at least one aspect of what they're doing - whether it's writing, programming, graphics, doesn't matter, so we should cut them some slack. But probably not more than one restart during the early stages when they realize they wanted too much, or they produced spaghetti beyond recognition. That in itself should be enough of a learning process to avoid that later.

The monetary issue of course depends on how you want your support - a platform like Patreon explicitely says exactly that, their idea is "artists doing art for art's sake" with nothing tangible needing to come off it. (Their other idea of course is making money themselves without having to check on the progress of the projects). Never read the terms for Subscribestar, I guess they're similar, but unfortunately it will be not very useful in the forseeable future. But on this kinds of platform that is okay, you don't have to like it, neither do I, and that is one of the reasons (although not the main one) I don't use them. So here, as long as no real promises are made, we gotta live with it.

But if you sell your game on a platform like Steam, things are IMO very different, even with the pre alpha releases making people more and more accustomed to games not finishing, there you buy a product and deserve an honest effort at finishing the game, even if it's painful.

 

[asdf115]

Heard that this game is pretty grindy and using mods can improve QoL. Of the ones listed on the main post, can someone give a quick breakdown of what's different between Radioactive, SFC, and Better Experience/which to recommend?

 

[BobHope12]

Heard that this game is pretty grindy and using mods can improve QoL. Of the ones listed on the main post, can someone give a quick breakdown of what's different between Radioactive, SFC, and Better Experience/which to recommend?

Game is getting abandoned. The last update is in the testing phase. The Dev just started to make a sequel of the game with new models and interface in Unity. From what I heard you can port your save to make it easier in the sequel. I don't think the modded saves will transfer well so see what you want to do. I personally like Better Experience but I'm going to try a grind game for the last update.

 

[tlhansen]

Version 45.01 alpha has been released on Patreon.

 

[1lonegamer]

Game is getting abandoned. The last update is in the testing phase. The Dev just started to make a sequel of the game with new models and interface in Unity. From what I heard you can port your save to make it easier in the sequel. I don't think the modded saves will transfer well so see what you want to do. I personally like Better Experience but I'm going to try a grind game for the last update.

Cheat the old fashion way, console commands and a copy of unren.bat

 

[Cartageno]

Cheat the old fashion way, console commands and a copy of unren.bat

If there is a tried and tested cheat mod, as it is here, I would always advise to use that.

- variables have already been identified, especially when a cheat needs changes in more than one place
- you often get a way more comfortable UI to change stuff, to check stuff (e. g. here you can get an overview of preriquisites for stuff, not directly available via console)
- potentially problematic changes may have been identified and either a workaround for the problems or a warning can be given

 

[IdarksoulsI]

SuperPowered V0.45.01 PC

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edit:added hotfix

 

[Baal7734]

I disagree. Renpy uses Python, which is used from startups to film production companies, big pharma, AI, data science and Youtube, among a ton of other industries.
Python is a general purpose language with modern semantics and reasonable affordances for structuring big codebases.
Renpy as an engine does have contraints of course, but I'm not convinced that SuperPowered's problems are due to them. IMHO Baal's stated gripes for discontinuing SuperPowered have more to do with him overcomplicating his code structure and his game's design than with any alleged Renpy or Python shortcoming.

It's both. I was learning to code as I was making SP, so I made a lot of architectual mistakes. But one thing Ren'py sucks at is UI. Can it make a great UI. Sure. Can said great UI be made in anything close to the same timeframe as in Unity? HEEEEELLLLLL NOOOOOOOO. Also...I just prefer c# to python. Those weren't the only reasons either. The process I use to reduce image size to avoid an 8gb game also washes out the images saturation which resulted in much uglier renders, which isn't an issue in Unity since unity uses much better texture compression. Ultimately, ren'py is great for some things, and requires a lot of extra work for others, and as a one man show...I don't have the time to spare on that extra work.

That's true, but if you're senior enough, you can take a step back and see the big picture and work to your tools' strengths to achieve whatever it is you set out to do even over a multi year project.
It does take superhuman feats of self-discipline, especially on a one-man project where you wear all the hats that would normally be spread across a team, but it's possible, and after all, you're charging people for it.

In the end, I think Baal simply burned out on SuperPowered's codebase and design and longed for a fresh start, which seems to be a common temptation these days. Management would absolutely not let you get away with it if you had management above you.

Management would have never hired me because I didn't really know how to code when I started.(probably still don't) Good thing I'm self employed.

 

[1lonegamer]

If there is a tried and tested cheat mod, as it is here, I would always advise to use that.

- variables have already been identified, especially when a cheat needs changes in more than one place
- you often get a way more comfortable UI to change stuff, to check stuff (e. g. here you can get an overview of preriquisites for stuff, not directly available via console)
- potentially problematic changes may have been identified and either a workaround for the problems or a warning can be given

Mods add things to the save that make them not work without the mod, if you are trying to make an end save that will transfer to the part 2 game a mod is going to be a no good. You can grind our use a few console commands to help with the grind. What do you think the mods do? For the vanilla cheats in mods use the same console commands and variables. It can get a little tricky, but if you want a clean save compatible with the base game for possible future upload a mod may not be your answer.

 

[Cartageno]

Mods add things to the save that make them not work without the mod, if you are trying to make an end save that will transfer to the part 2 game a mod is going to be a no good. You can grind our use a few console commands to help with the grind. What do you think the mods do? For the vanilla cheats in mods use the same console commands and variables. It can get a little tricky, but if you want a clean save compatible with the base game for possible future upload a mod may not be your answer.

You are correct on that aspect. If mods do indeed change saves, as some do, that is a big minus. However, mods can on the other hand easily correct logical errors like impossible values which may crash your game, reset flags if you go above or below certain thresholds which would otherwise prohibit the game from continuing, and so forth. That behind the scenes they will use "the same commands" as you would in the console is IMO immaterial.

Also, I have been in possibly one thread too many where somebody was told about the console, ruined their save because they didn't really know what they were doing, and then went on a full rampage. Those people are better off with mods IMO.

I will agree though, if you have some programming experience (preferrably Python, but of course it isn't necessary) and are willing to check the code for cross references and similar, console commands are easier (no need to wait for somebody to write a mod) and more flexible.

 

[unwelcomed]

how to play this game wtf why there's should be so much to do damn

 

[SuperMaxo]

how to play this game wtf why there's should be so much to do damn

there is a very useful walkthrough, you know...

 

[unwelcomed]

i just give up i can't play this and i regret downloading it can't even get 1 scene after 2 hours or more wtf

 

[ThanatosX]

Do you get to port much stuff over to your 2.0 version, or you starting with a clean slate.

 

[loikl]

And they put the ntr tag back on it despite the huge discussion a long time ago where it was said that this is not ntr... anyway.